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Mobility radeon 5650 vs geforce 410m

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September 8, 2011 9:52:17 AM

Need opinions pls,

Talking about actually

i5 second gen + 1333 mhz ram speed + g410m gpu VS i3 + 1066mhz ram speed + radeon 5650

which one you prefer?

price difference= 115 USD
September 8, 2011 11:52:33 AM

Nvidia, because this brand supports more games.
Ati is okay, but supports less games.
Ati is also great for overclocking, but Nvidia has better technology (looking at image improvements, etc.).

If you are a real GTA fan, you should choose the Nvidia one (because GTA was origionally made for gaming with Nvidia).
If you are a Rollercoaster Tycoon fan, you'll have to choose Ati.

If you are a real editor (like working with Photoshop or Premiere Pro), I prefer Nvidia because Adobe works best on these cards. If you are only interrested in playing online games, FPS games and multiplayer games, I prefer Ati because it works more smooth.

It all depends on what you are going to do with it.
September 8, 2011 12:11:01 PM

Do you mean Nvidia performs bad at online FPS games like MMORPGs or a little worse than Ati?

How is its performance at online gaming like KO or SRO?

One of two combinations above which I prefer is the first one, but ATI confuses me so much.

Do I get a complete bad performance or will it be OK?

Btw they are two seperate VAIO models. VPCEH1S1E and VPCEB4S1E
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September 8, 2011 12:28:08 PM

Nvidia performs good at online FPS games, but Ati is more flexible.
Nvidia software is big and complicated and always running on the background, Ati software is lighter (you will hardly notice its running on the background) less complicated but also has less functions.
Thus Ati is better if you are doing games that need a lot of system power.

Ati is indeed confusing compared to the easy menu's of the Nvidia software.

I think both games are playable, on both Nvidia and Ati.
But Nvidia will produce a better image quality, due to it's advanced PureVideo HD and other technology's.
Also you'll have to find out yourself, I think you can get mid/hi LOD out of it.
But I can't tell you exactly, because I don't play those games and I don't have a Vaio.

I personally prefer the Vaio with the Nvidia (VPCEH1S1E).
It has a better CPU and also 4 Usb ports.

You will now think, 4 usb ports what's the problem with 3?
Let me tell you, 4 is better.
If a usb port breaks or get's too low voltage (what happens over the years), you'll always have others left.

Also 3 is not enough for me, becaus I have a wireless keyboard, a wired mouse and 2 usb sticks.
So, i'll need 4 usb ports.
And believe me it is always usefull to have a 4th, in case you want to copy something or if you have a external hdd.
September 8, 2011 12:47:56 PM

Thanks very much for your help. I appreciate..
September 8, 2011 12:57:08 PM

You're welcome
a b D Laptop
September 8, 2011 1:21:08 PM

I disagree with nearly everything he wrote, OTHER then if you use Photoshop, etc to get the Nvidia card.

Here is a review of the 5650m. Notice they have it between the 420 and the 425. This makes it faster then the 410.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-565...

As for image quality (IQ) there is little difference between the cards. Some games here and there can have issues, but its usually driver related. If you want to game with this, get the 5650. It won't be a beast, but it will work better then the 410.
September 8, 2011 1:32:49 PM

both i3 and i5 support 1066 and 1333 ddr3

but i think it's not so different for a midrange laptop.

so for 5650 vs 410M, 5650 is midrange/ lower midrange but nvidia is lowest power GPU of the same era.

so, reguardless of ATI and nvidia, 5650 easily outclass the 410M.


also, both i3 and i5 can provide enough computing power for the 2 above cards,
so, for gaming purpose, 5650 is definite ur call
September 9, 2011 8:00:33 AM

You'll have to deside by yourself:
Nvidia: http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-410m-us.ht...
Ati: http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/graphics/mobili...

I still prefer Nvidia!
Nvidia also has PhysX, PureVideo and CUDA.
Ati has the same DirectX, etc.

Ati has more GigaFlops, etc (Nvidia = 73 GigaFlops, Ati = 360 - 520 GigaFlops).
But Nvidia has a higher processor clock/engine clock speed (Nvidia = 1150 Mhz, Ati = 450 - 650 Mhz).
Nvidia supports higher OpenGL (Nvidia = 4.1, Ati = 3.2)
Ati supports 3D, but Nvidia delivers 3D.

I'm still prefering the Nvidia!
I have seen a lot of laptops with a Ati graphics card fail, but the ones with Nvidia kept working.
The drivers and software for Nvidia are way more easier to get, than the ones for Ati.
Also Nvidia software is more userfriendly than Ati's.

Adobe works best on Nvidia, not on Ati

And as I said, the Ati will be better for gaming while the Nvidia has better picture quality due to it's PureVideo HD technology!

And both cards are in the same class, according to notebookcheck.net.
The Nvidia one is indeed lower, but it doesn't mean it performs extremely worse.
The difference is relatively small, because they are still in the same class and not in different classes.

And can't you guys read???
I wrote this: "Thus Ati is better if you are doing games that need a lot of system power."
Ati is better for heavy gaming!
Nvidia needs help from other components, Ati doesn't.
That's why Ati is better for gaming and Nvidia is better for image quality and movies.

I didn't say Ati is worse!
I only said that adjusting the settings is harder and more confusing!
Nvidia is more userfriendly and the settings are easier to adjust.


The reason why I prefer Nvidia:

You don't have a laptop just for gaming, you are also going to use it for other things as well.
Think about watching movies, listening to music, etc.

What you want is a proper CPU (not the cheapest of the Intel i series), so a i5 is better (it has 0.2 more Ghz, it doesn't seem much but multiply it by 4 and you have 0.8 Ghz more in total compared to the i3. And that makes a small difference).

But you also want to watch movies in a proper quality without lag (watch this video to see what PureVideo can do: http://youtu.be/XITHbsUUlYI. The video doesn't lie, because I have a graphics card (the 4 year old 8400M G) with PureVideo and everything you see in the video is true).

If you want to watch 3D, Ati does support it but Nvidia is build for it.

If you need a longer battery life, Nvidia Optimus technology can help you with that.
Windows has different power settings, but Optimus technology makes sure that when you are doing nothing the graphics card is in idle and when it's needed the graphics card is delivering performance.

Nvidia also takes care of the realism of the games (Nvidia PhysX).


Make your own choice!

I prefer Nvidia, because of it's quality improvement technology and also for the gaming realism technology.
But Ati is still a gaming card, and will beat Nvidia with gaming (but not with watching movies, because Nvidia can even make a 360p movie look good).


I didn't say Ati is a bad card, I didn't say Nvidia is a bad card.
I just gave my opinion on what to choose and about what I prefer.

Ati is bought by AMD, I don't know the reason why but I know it happend.
So, if you need drivers you'll have to search through the (in my opinion) confusing AMD site.
Nvidia is able to keep standing on it's own legs, because Nvidia isn't bought by a other company yet (I hope that it is never going to happen at all, but you never know in these times).


I don't care about the opinion of others, because they have their opinion and I have mine.
Everybody has the right to say what they think is best!
I give my opinion and you give yours, that's how it works.

The choice of the graphics card is up to you!
a b D Laptop
September 9, 2011 8:39:57 AM

So you'd buy it even though its slower?

Quote:
Nvidia also has PhysX, PureVideo and CUDA.
Ati has the same DirectX, etc.


PhysX is CUDA. ATI has OpenCL. Purevideo is nothing to brag about, AMD has UVD. Its just the name each company gave their video decode. If anything, AMDs UVD is better then Purevideo as it scores higher in tests.

Quote:
Ati has more GigaFlops, etc (Nvidia = 73 GigaFlops, Ati = 360 - 520 GigaFlops).
But Nvidia has a higher processor clock/engine clock speed (Nvidia = 1150 Mhz, Ati = 450 - 650 Mhz).


Again, who cares. If anything its more impressive that AMD has better Gigaflops while using a lower clock speed as it shows they can do more with less. (I know thats not the case for anyone paying attention, but I have to deal with greatforce's limited knowledge.)

As for failing chipsets, you never heard of Nvidia's much more recent chipset fiasco?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13554_3-10020782-33.html

Don't forget the issue they had with the 680i. Overclock it and the SATA drive would get wiped. And it wouldn't support the 45nm quads requiring the 780i.
September 9, 2011 9:22:53 AM

I have indeed limited knowledge, because I hate Ati cards since I was born!
I always had Nvidia, even my 8 year old desktop has a Nvidia.

And I know about failing chipsets, and I also know it's bullshit.
My laptop has the Nvidia 8400M G, so it should be part of the 8 series overheating problems.
But it isn't, it doesn't get overheat and it still works fine after 4 years!

The times I worked with Ati where horrible, cheap little cards that made too much noise.
The cooling took 4 times more power than the actual card, the noise was unbairable.
I tried to work with it, but after a day I trew the card away.

Most companies use Nvidia, Apple mostly uses Nvidia, I use Nvidia.
GTA IV doesn't run well on Ati, but does on Nvidia.

For watching movies, Nvidia is your friend.

And for the brand AMD, I think nothing is wrong with this brand.
Their CPU's are awesome (I prefer them above the Intel ones), but it's about Ati itself.

You are a Ati fan and I am a Nvidia fan.

Ati also had it's drawbacks!
Like the graphics card from a friend of mine:
That Ati card was upside down, specially made for people who have their motherboards on the other side of the computer.
So, the fan was also always upside down and making an unbearable noise and also stopped working now and then because it wasn't designed to work upside down.

For online FPS games Ati is indeed better than Nvidia, so I learned from my own experiences.
But for video Nvidia is better.

Ati = gaming
Nvidia = more than gaming

Ati is focused on one task, gaming.
While Nvidia also focusses on more, like 3D.

Ati supports watching 3D, but Nvidia was build for converting 2D to 3D and watching 3D.

Also Ati has a lot of driver problems!
And on the laptop of another friend of mine (who has an Ati card in it's laptop), he often gets a blue screen when starting GTA IV (without having changed the settings).

If you go to the video from my previous message and then to page 2 of the comments you'll see this comment:
"[...] The video doesnt lag a bit on My NVIDIA GEFORCE 310M GRAPHIC CARD. But it does lag on my sisters PC. She has Intel HD graphics! It lags a lot!"

These comments on page 6:
"awsome vid quality with no lag at all on Sony vaio intel quad core i7 2.99 Ghz Nvidia geforce 310m!"
"my damaged geforce 8400 gs can play this reasonably well"

You see!
Nvidia does what it is made for, awesome picture quality.
a b D Laptop
September 9, 2011 11:41:39 AM

I didn't mean you had limited knowledge about AMD/ATI, I meant you seem to have limited knowledge about how video cards work. Clock speed means much less to a cards processing power then the architecture used. And just because yours never blew doesn't mean anything. Nvidia set $$$ aside for lawsuits and recalls, so its real, not BS.

Are you sure Apple uses Nvidia?

http://semiaccurate.com/2010/07/27/apple-does-kick-nvid...

I'm not an ATI/AMD fan. I'm a fan of technology. I do prefer ATI or AMD, but I use whatever I can get that performs the best. I currently use a 5750, but before that I had an 8800GS. (Nvidia) I like AMD, but my last two CPUs have been Intels. (i5 750 and E6600.) I buy based on performance, just like I did with the OPs question. The 5650 will provide more frames per second then the 410m. Period. If he was choosing between the 5650 and the 425m, I'd say get the 425.
September 9, 2011 12:57:14 PM

I know it's real about the overheating and I contacted Nvidia a long time ago to ask if my graphics card could suffer from overheating (the answer I got back was 'no').

I buy based on performance too, but I stick to the manufacturers that I thrust for a long time and from whom I can expect quality. I know I'm old-fashioned, but it is the reality. You won't buy anything from the same brand if the product fails. That's also why I hate Ati, every Ati I saw failed badly. So, I stick to Nvidia.

And ... AAAAGGGGHHHH ... Apple disappoints me!
A few years ago all MacBooks had Nvidia graphics even the PowerMac's.
What happend to Apple, what where they thinking of!
They don't make the normal MacBook anymore either.
Damn, I hate Apple!

And I do know how graphics cards work, but I am indeed less experienced.
Mainly because I don't replace a computer every now and then because it can't run the newest games anymore.

I am old-fashioned, but I do know what to choose.
September 9, 2011 3:16:33 PM

i think this topic is mainly on 5650 vs 410m (not on ati vs nvidia battle, do u agree, greatforce)?

1. Graphic Power

regardless of the technology, clock and brand, 5650 mobility is almost twice more powerful than 410M. so for performance including gaming and all other graphic intensive works even "nvidia it's meant to be play title", 5650 will work greater than 410M.

2.Power Comsumption and batery life

but as i have mentioned, 5650 is twice powerful, so it consume more power
also, nvidia has Optimus tech (thechaotic don't describe the i5+nividia has optimus or not but if there is, it has an edge on battery life) also, many laptop vendors include power saving methods while not running 3D games and apps to downclock the graphic card "ATI Power Play", so might not differ much.

so, this is to be decided whether the laptop will be use how long on go and how long away from wall plug.

3. 3D

i'm not sure the laptop with nividia has 3D capability but with i5 and 150usd difference, it might not be 3D capable laptop. nividia means it's tech allow 3D but the laptop, not. and for Nvidia 3d Vision, u will need a nvidia certified 3D monitor, 3D capable GPU (410 M is surely not on the list) and active 3D glass, which in combination will cost for another laptop.

and for use with blue/red glass, both ati and nvidia can support.

so, i think it's not relavent in this comparison.


4.Driver

u told it's confuse to get ATI drivers from AMD website, but just click on www.amd.com. u'll see the driver download even on home page very easily. not even need a click on driver tab for nvidia.

and for driver problem, some say nvidia have driver problem, and some say ATI, but for me, both side have fairly good driver support at these years.
so, anyway, it's also equal for both.

and for usd115 difference, it the money for i5 over i3.
i5 is better but i3 also good. depend on what he use.
but for GPU, what will u choose a 2 horse power engine and 1 HP engine if they are same price and other similar features which u can replace forever.




FOR Nvidia and AMD/ATI,

there is always arguing between which one is better and as u know, no one is forever. currently Nvidia produce fastest GPU that beat every ATI/AMD best men but not everyone has a power generator, best air conditioner and forest of trees growing money. To be the fastest, it sacrifice power efficiency, heat production and cost.

so if fastest is the best, nvidia is the winner but not everyone can afford that. majority of GPU sales are low and mid-range, so the fastest is not always relavent (like 5650 and 410M). also u can see the monthly recommendation of GPU on Tom's Hardware where majority of ATI cards rule the good price/performance choices.

also, the market share of AMD/ATI is increasing in thie 2 years over nivida. do u think the whole world is foolish enough to buy the poor hardware.

i've used both nvidia and ati, still using both and i'm saying ati is best. they have their own advantages and disadvantages.


so better think on the price, the rest of the system spec, design, brand, warranty and availability than on the nvidia and ati, agree?
September 9, 2011 3:37:45 PM

No, it isn't a battle between Ati and Nvidia, I compare them and give my opinion.
I'm not going to have a discussion about that, because I did nothing wrong.
I just gave my opinion!
a b D Laptop
September 9, 2011 5:31:17 PM

Yes, but the opinion was wrong. You didn't pick the 410 because it was best for the OP, but because you only believe/trust Nvidia. Thats what I was trying to point out. I looked up a benchmark and showed that the 5650 was faster, and you called me a fanboy. Your personal feelings are one thing, but to pick a weaker card because you don't trust AMD is you being the fanboy.
September 9, 2011 5:38:32 PM

No, it's called old-fashioned.
And I said clearly that the 5650 was better at gaming!
I also said that the 410 also had it's drawbacks.

If you have seen a lot of Nvidia cards fail and only a few work, the chances would be high that you will prefer Ati above Nvidia. That's how it works.

And the same counts for me.
Of all 6 Ati cards I have worked with, only 1 worked as it should the others failed badly. That's why I hate Ati.
From all the Nvidia cards I have worked with, only 2 failed.
So, in my case it is logical that I choose Nvidia instead of Ati.
!