Light sources and line of sight

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How should the line of sight be figured for PC carrying bullseye
lantern? Can PC re-point it so fast in the battle that LOS is a circle
with radius equal to the length of the beam?

Let's say that 2 PCs are carrying light sources that cast light in
radius of 30ft, but they are 40ft apart from eachother. Can one PC
make a ranged attack on an enemy that is next to another PC and will
the enemy have some cancealment against attacking PC?

If possible point me to the correct source if the rules for this type
of problem exist.

 

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cyberhawk777@hotmail.com wrote:
> How should the line of sight be figured for PC carrying bullseye
> lantern? Can PC re-point it so fast in the battle that LOS is a circle
> with radius equal to the length of the beam?

I'd say that repointing the lantern is a free action that can only be
done on your own turn (like most free actions).

This means that (for all intents and purposes) a bullseye lantern gives
the full radius of illumination in your turn. However, you have to pick
the direction it's oriented in when you end your turn, and you can only
see enemy movement if it's in the cone.

While not completely realistic, it's a fairly simple system, and I
think it models the feel of a frantic battle well, with the character
swinging the lantern to and fro, frantically trying to keep all enemies
in the cone.

> Let's say that 2 PCs are carrying light sources that cast light in
> radius of 30ft, but they are 40ft apart from eachother. Can one PC
> make a ranged attack on an enemy that is next to another PC and will
> the enemy have some cancealment against attacking PC?

The light and vision rules are badly worded. You should always remember
that a light source can be seen from _far_ further away than its
illumination radius. A torch only provides 20-40 feet of illumination,
but on a dark night, a torch's light can be seen for miles.

In other words, the PC in your example should be able to make the
ranged attack. The enemy would have no concealment (the -4 from firing
into melee would apply, of course).

Note that this would be my answer even if the archer had no light
source of his own. He could be in total darkness and still be able to
shoot at the enemy with no miss chance (you might decide to give him a
-2 to hit if it's so dark that he can't properly see his own weapon).

Laszlo

 

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laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
> cyberhawk777@hotmail.com wrote:
> > How should the line of sight be figured for PC carrying bullseye
> > lantern? Can PC re-point it so fast in the battle that LOS is a circle
> > with radius equal to the length of the beam?
>
> I'd say that repointing the lantern is a free action that can only be
> done on your own turn (like most free actions).
>
> This means that (for all intents and purposes) a bullseye lantern gives
> the full radius of illumination in your turn. However, you have to pick
> the direction it's oriented in when you end your turn, and you can only
> see enemy movement if it's in the cone.
>

Sounds reasonable. I'm not sure that's what I'd do, or that it's by
the book, but it's reasonable.

> > Let's say that 2 PCs are carrying light sources that cast light in
> > radius of 30ft, but they are 40ft apart from eachother. Can one PC
> > make a ranged attack on an enemy that is next to another PC and will
> > the enemy have some cancealment against attacking PC?

If they if they are 30' apart then the light sources overlap, and they
can see each other fine.

>
> The light and vision rules are badly worded. You should always remember
> that a light source can be seen from _far_ further away than its
> illumination radius. A torch only provides 20-40 feet of illumination,
> but on a dark night, a torch's light can be seen for miles.
>

If they are illuminated, they are illuminated, no concealment.

> In other words, the PC in your example should be able to make the
> ranged attack. The enemy would have no concealment (the -4 from firing
> into melee would apply, of course).
>

Absolutely.

> Note that this would be my answer even if the archer had no light
> source of his own. He could be in total darkness and still be able to
> shoot at the enemy with no miss chance (you might decide to give him a
> -2 to hit if it's so dark that he can't properly see his own weapon).
>

I'm a little fuzzy on this, since there are rules for being in the dark
that gives total concealment to everyone else, but that doesn't really
make any sense. And unfortunately I can't seem to find them in the SRD,
and don't have my phb handy.

- Justisaur

 

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Oops I mean 80' apart, so there is a gap of 10' between the light
circles. I guess in either case they see eachother, even though they
don't see anything in these 10'.

What if there is an orc standing beween them hiding in the darkness,
can they make him by virtue of him partially blocking the view of two
light sources? What kind of concealment whould you give that orc?

 

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Justisaur wrote:
> laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
> > I'd say that repointing the lantern is a free action that can only be
> > done on your own turn (like most free actions).
> >
> > This means that (for all intents and purposes) a bullseye lantern gives
> > the full radius of illumination in your turn. However, you have to pick
> > the direction it's oriented in when you end your turn, and you can only
> > see enemy movement if it's in the cone.
>
> Sounds reasonable. I'm not sure that's what I'd do, or that it's by
> the book, but it's reasonable.

Definitely not by the book; I'm pretty sure the RAW don't address this
at all.

> > In other words, the PC in your example should be able to make the
> > ranged attack. The enemy would have no concealment (the -4 from firing
> > into melee would apply, of course).
> >
>
> Absolutely.
>
> > Note that this would be my answer even if the archer had no light
> > source of his own. He could be in total darkness and still be able to
> > shoot at the enemy with no miss chance (you might decide to give him a
> > -2 to hit if it's so dark that he can't properly see his own weapon).
>
> I'm a little fuzzy on this, since there are rules for being in the dark
> that gives total concealment to everyone else, but that doesn't really
> make any sense.

Exactly. Like I said, the rules are badly worded.

> And unfortunately I can't seem to find them in the SRD,
> and don't have my phb handy.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#visionAndLight

The quote you may be thinking of: "In areas of darkness, creatures
without darkvision are effectively blinded." Taken at face value, this
is clearly nonsense. I think it's just poor wording, though.

Laszlo