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THG BUG: THE TRUTH ON TBRED OC'ING!

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Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 7:15:15 AM

hi all

i have said that before in another thread, this could be a possibility that the TBred sample from THG was a deficient one for overclocking because of its immaturity.

and here is the proof: <b>TBred 2200+ 1.8@2.16GHz@163@1.85v overclocking succeeded.</b>

extract for the review:
Quote:
<b>Thoroughbred Overclocking</b>

Author: Ryan Shrout
Date: Sat, Jun 15, 2002
Subject: Overclocking
Manufacturer: AMD

Let the Games Begin

When I published my Athlon XP 2200+ review last Monday I never could have imagined the ruckus that it would have caused. After a couple weeks of toying, I was able to overclock my test processor faster than most other published reviews. Some reported maximum overclocks of only 25-30 MHz while others got up above the 2.0 GHz mark. My Thoroughbred 2200+ processor, which has a stock speed of 1.8 GHz, was able to reach a 2.16 GHz, a 360 MHz increase.

I’ll admit that when I began to hear of others overclocking results while I was with Patrick of The Screen Savers on Monday, I had lots of questions. But, I couldn’t doubt what I had seen and what the processor had done, so I decided I would simply do more investigation on this new Thoroughbred core. That is the basis for this very article.

from <A HREF="http://www.amdmb.com/article-display.php?ArticleID=188&..." target="_new">amdbd</A>

there was an OC'ing issue for the THG TBred sample because of its 0144 series number which is indicated on the cpu <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020610/index.html" target="_new">picture</A> and thus its immaturity. the TBred here has a 0162 series number.

also it is possible at all and realistic than the next Thoroughbred series would be more and more overclockable. this would involve moreover a better start out for the next Barton cpu.


ADD-ON:
-------

Quote:
<b>Athlon XP 2200+ Overclocking</b>

The most interesting part of reviewing a new processor core (especially one that is also a die shrink) is finding out exactly how much overclocking headroom it has. In terms of overclocking options, the Athlon XP Thoroughbred is virtually identical to previous models. The infamous L2 bridges are alive and well, and although our review chips came without the laser marks, we chose to go the FSB route to match what a retail buyer would experience. The option still exists to link the bridges, but using a 1 MHz FSB increment also helps us get a better idea on its high-end overclocking potential.

On the surface, the 0.13-micron Thoroughbred would seem to have a lot of overclocking potential, but the actual results were a bit disappointing. If you're thinking of buying the Athlon XP 2200+ for overclocking purposes, then stop right where you are. The highest reliable core speed we could get was 1931 MHz using a 143 MHz FSB and a core voltage of 1.775V. You may be looking at the core voltage and wondering why we didn't use 1.8V or higher, and that would illustrate the main problem we had when overclocking.

All overclocking exercises are a give and take between core speed, voltage and overall heat levels and stability. The Athlon XP Thoroughbred took this to a whole new plane, as even slight voltage increases would ramp up core heat quite noticeably (like you had crossed a line in the sand), while lowering the overall overclock speed. Finding a happy medium is a tedious and extremely long-term process, and even hitting over 1.9 GHz took a whole lot of tweaking. For all testing we used a Vantec copper HSF, a 7000 RPM fan and Arctic Silver 3, and it was still tough going at some points.

A by-product of the newer, smaller core is that there is simply less core real estate to work with, thus less coverage using a heatsink. This isn't really a concern with the Pentium 4, as Intel's S478 heat-spreader is the same size regardless of the actual die. We had some questions regarding this and apparently this is one of the reasons why the thermal requirements remain very similar for the higher-end Athlon XP Thoroughbred models. The lower-speed Athlon XP 1700+ (1.5V) is a nice improvement over the Athlon XP Palomino, but once we hit the Athlon XP 2200+ and its 1.65V requirement, the thermal specs start getting a lot closer to the Palomino.

<b>There are improvements with the Thoroughbred, but don't go in thinking of a super cool-running processor, as you will need a heavy-duty HSF and any further voltage increases for overclocking will drive the heat higher. These results got us concerned about the overall viability of the AMD 0.13-micron core, and exactly how the company expects to move above the 1.8 GHz level for upcoming models. We had the same questions regarding the Duron 1 GHz, and as in that case, we are pretty sure a new Thoroughbred core revision is in the works that'll allow higher speeds.</b>


from <A HREF="http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3..." target="_new">sharkyextreme</A>




:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by corsair3200 on 06/20/02 00:18 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 17, 2002 12:09:14 PM

I hope this is true!

Censorship makes us so much more creative.
June 17, 2002 3:41:51 PM

Sounds like wishful thinking to me.

<font color=blue> There's no such thing as hell, but you can make it if you try.</font color=blue>
Related resources
June 17, 2002 4:18:17 PM

Quote:
i have said that before in another thread, this could be a possibility that the TBred sample from THG was a deficient one for overclocking because of its immaturity


AMD is turning their backs on overclockers and ethusist, cash in your chips!

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by AmdMELTDOWN on 06/17/02 12:21 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 17, 2002 4:21:23 PM

1.13 couldn't even compile linux at stock speeds iirc. So that would be a no to your query.

MStakem
June 17, 2002 4:22:29 PM

Man, when I saw your all caps title, I thought you were AMDMELTDOWM.

I hope this is true, but I'll only believe it when I see it myself.

--------------
Knowan likes you. Knowan is your friend. Knowan thinks you're great.
June 17, 2002 4:34:17 PM

Are you trying to be Melty's "good" twin or something?

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 17, 2002 5:14:18 PM

Did they specify the cooling method?

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 6:29:13 PM

?!?

:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 17, 2002 6:30:00 PM

At the end of the article he basically states that it is a bad assumption that one could reliably expect to get to 2GHz with a T-bred. If you read through the article you find that he got a broad range in overclockability even between two processors that seemed to have been right next to each other in production. Doesn't get my hopes up unfortunately.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 6:31:57 PM

short note: by the way, have you seen yourself the THG sample?


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 6:39:27 PM

what are you talking about?!?

i have only brought here a Today TBred overclocking review.




<i>i think you don't like AMD, isn't it? :lol:  </i>

:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 6:43:24 PM

only a slightly sarcastic comment: who is melted down?


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 6:55:31 PM

Quote:
If you read through the article you find that he got a broad range in overclockability even between two processors that seemed to have been right next to each other in production. Doesn't get my hopes up unfortunately.

thanks to put forward this point.
if a "broad" overclocking is possible between 2 next processors, what would it be with the first series of the production and the other next series?
i think that al contrario, it is very hopefully.


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 17, 2002 7:55:03 PM

Labdog, is that you?

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 17, 2002 8:00:52 PM

A triple personality disorder???
Corsair->Meltdown->Labdog?
And we thought mfud was labdog.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 8:59:23 PM

?

:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 17, 2002 9:44:17 PM

Labdog is mfud, we know that. Corsair is either Labdog or some other French Canadian.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 17, 2002 9:47:33 PM

Yeah but certainly no Juin!

BTW Mfud seemed to have many personal PC questions, so I had doubts of him being labdog...unless the dog himself admitted it?



--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 9:52:16 PM

?!?



:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 9:57:56 PM

would you give me some accurateness about all those guys (juin,labdog,dog,mf...)?

that seems to be funny. thanks.


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2002 9:58:05 PM

would you give me some accurateness about all those guys (juin,labdog,dog,mf...)?

that seems to be fun. thanks.


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 17, 2002 10:31:51 PM

Quote:
would you give me some accurateness about all those guys (juin,labdog,dog,mf...)?

um, don't mind them, they're jealous of your posting style that's all.


"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
June 17, 2002 10:56:26 PM

He said that in a thread in the Other section, don't remember which.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 17, 2002 11:23:25 PM

I figured, with FUD inside his name...

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
June 17, 2002 11:28:58 PM

Meltdown- Classic THGC troll, hates AMD, has fervor for Intel and even meditates and prays for them as almost as religious. Thinks AMD chips are prone to frying all the time, sadly 1/100000 come here to post about overheats.

Juin-Forum's biggest garble talking person. He's Quebecer like me but he has bad english. And he has the tendency to talk about the farthest future for chipset names, we never even thought they'd exist, then he looks forward to them even though they ain't coming out in years.

FUGGER- Very odd troll. He's informed, it's just too bad he is anti-AMD and likes to troll, otherwise he'd serve as a very good informing person.

Labdog- Forum garble too, but much more understandable than Juin. He uses weird sentences and expects us to know what they mean. He also posts tons of useless posts in a topic thus ruining it. He thinks he has tank armor on him that protects him against insults.

Mfud- Well it seems it was labdog in disguise. Didn't think he'd ask informative questions and even post informative links!

Those are the people to watch out for, they CAN be annoying, with juin's exception.(sometimes he seems anti-AMD, sometimes not).

Welcome to THG, enjoy your stay in one of our wooden beds!


--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
June 17, 2002 11:32:15 PM

Wooden beds? Can I get off these nails, then?

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 18, 2002 12:16:41 AM

corsair has got to be lab. noone else would spend that much time to get <i>member</i> status in a couple days. and from his posts, it seems he's going to google and searching for "computer news" or "tech news" and posting any hits that come up.

[insert philosophical statement here]
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2002 12:26:32 AM

i have guessed it would be fun. rofl.

thanks for the warning. :-)



:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2002 12:40:13 AM

LoL. i have tried this forum randomly and i appreciated it. i have found some good stuff in it.

note: i am now an "enthusiast" but i don't exactly know what that means (at least for the moment).


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 18, 2002 1:13:16 AM

It means you've been spending too much time here.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 1:39:28 AM

thank you to see that it not me i have never use a others useur to FUD DDR or VIA

Anyone wonder why the word AMD is in the link
toms anandtech or any others website was not able to pass 2 GHZ

cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2002 1:39:55 AM

i didn't think i have a special time range to spend to?!?
but by the way, what does this expression means "has got to be lab"?


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2002 2:13:25 AM

LoL

this link was provided by <A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/10060201.htm" target="_new">The Inquirer</A>.

moreover what can we expect from the Barton?!? :
Quote:
Tom's Hardware has put the chip through its paces, with an exhaustive review, comparing Thoroughbred with Palomino and containing some info about the upcoming Barton core, which will have 512K cache. In 32 tests, AMD outstripped the Intel Pentium 4/2533 in only two.

Of course, it's much cheaper. As THG points out, AMD "still has a better price/performance ratio if you're less concerned with getting the absolute top performance. In this case, the true benchmark freaks will want to stick with a P4 system based on PC1066. The T-bred won't give you the a big performance boost, and we didn't expect it to, because ultimately, the CPU core has not been changed.

"Still, it's going to be exciting, because the arrival of the Barton, with its larger L2 cache, is imminent. And VIA is working on the KT400 chipset, which is supposed to bring DDR 400 with 200 MHz to the Socket 462 platform. Thus, the race has not yet come to an end - the means are ultimately the goal!" ®

from <A HREF="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/25643.html" target="_new">The Register</A>


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 18, 2002 5:08:02 AM

Someone from another post once claimed I was labdog.

Censorship makes us so much more creative.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2002 7:14:12 AM

and is it true?


:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
June 18, 2002 4:54:58 PM

No cuz we can understand him well and he doesn't spam post.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
June 18, 2002 6:45:24 PM

Here are some more you forgot.
Matistro: Biggest AMD fan. Informed most of the time. Will never admit Intel is better even if it's true. Will never admit he is wrong. Will never say AMD is at fault try to blame it on chipset vendors and other OEMs.

Eden: Another AMD fan. Mostly kiss a** for Matistro. Agrees on everything Matistro says and believes everything Matistro says.

Just for Fun, enjoy

KG

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." - Sarah Chambers
June 18, 2002 6:52:12 PM

How much do you know, you're only a "member", but yeah it is sometimes true.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 6:58:48 PM

Quote:
Here are some more you forgot.
Matistro: Biggest AMD fan. Informed most of the time. Will never admit Intel is better even if it's true. Will never admit he is wrong. Will never say AMD is at fault try to blame it on chipset vendors and other OEMs.

Eden: Another AMD fan. Mostly kiss a** for Matistro. Agrees on everything Matistro says and believes everything Matistro says.

ROTFLMAO!!! nice to know that ppl <b>ARE</b> very observant here, I only wish more of you had the balls to "tell it like it is" just like kemche just did.

good one man.

"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
June 18, 2002 7:03:27 PM

You're only an old hand...

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 18, 2002 7:41:52 PM

Hey dude,

(Member) is only rating based on how many time do you reply to other's post. Just because I don't reply with stupid comments doesn't mean anything. I have seen topics started with a very good information which turned into just post counter for others. Which help them get promotions from THG Community from member to something else.

All I want to say is this Just because I don't reply back doesn't mean I don't or can't read.

KG

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity." - Sarah Chambers
June 18, 2002 7:52:21 PM

Yes well just as you have the right to say this about yourself, you are in no position of putting me as kiss ass for Mat. A healthy sense of skepticism and open mind is much better than a closed one, especially when it comes to the Tbred. I have admitted or if not then I admit and I am not blind, that the current ones are the worst OCers ever. But to say just because I was doubtful on the indicativeness of current Tbreds' OCability towards future Athlon K7s that I am behind Mat, I take it as full offense.
Granted I may seem to follow him often, but to be honest, he makes sense most of the time, and btw he has admitted tons of times when he was wrong, he has recommended tons of times P4 1.6As, he has always admitted RDRAM's usefullness for P4. You and Fat have always been blind to his admittals and keep thinking he is always AMD biased.

I won't go on, but some of you should stop seeing me as Mat's dog.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
June 18, 2002 7:55:59 PM

Quote:
he has recommended tons of times P4 1.6As


I've only seen him flat out recommend a P4 in the last couple of weeks, and he was telling plenty of people to wait for Tbred, since it will overclock "just like Northwood".

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 18, 2002 7:59:36 PM

Hey, hey I've only posted useless post count increasing replies once or twice. And hey take it easy, I wasn't being serious per sé... and see I even agreed with you.

P.S. for Fatburger, so what? I've not been here that long..

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 8:00:27 PM

"Matistro: Biggest AMD fan. Informed most of the time. Will never admit Intel is better even if it's true. Will never admit he is wrong. Will never say AMD is at fault try to blame it on chipset vendors and other OEMs."

Damn you beat me to it!

jeff
June 18, 2002 8:16:29 PM

No, because then all his titles would be in lower case and his actual posts would be in upper case :wink:

"Meesa thinks that yousa gonna die" - Darth Darth Binks
June 18, 2002 8:17:11 PM

Which he then admitted flat out also that he was wrong or a bit over the edge.
I for one would not have the guts or would've been terribly embarrassed to come here if I had spread such hype...

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
!