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About to build a new pc...

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June 18, 2002 12:40:16 AM

Hi,

I'm thinking of building a new PC with a help of a couple of my friends. I plan on purchasing a P4 2.2, but with all the reading I have done on the Net, I'm a bit confused. I noticed that there are two types of P4 2.2's available on the the market today: the 2.2GHz w/ 512 Cache 400FSB and the 2.26GHz w/ 512 Cache 533FSB. I know the higher the number for the FSB the better, but is it that much of a difference in performance?

I was going to go with an AMD Athlon XP 2100+, but I was reading other forums on the Net and it seems as though a lot of people are having numerous types of problems with that specific chipset along with different types of motherboards.

If and when I do in fact pick up a P4 2.2, which one should I get (2.2 or 2.26?) and which motherboard would guarantee a fail-safe way to get this machine running right out of the box. One of my friends recommends that I use Abit since he's been using them for quite a while now and has never had any problems.

Also, what type of memory do I need to get this running properly? My brother-in-law says that he can get ahold of some Micron 256MB PC2100 DDR from his work for really cheap ($38?). Will that work with this specific chipset?

All in all, here are the system specs that I wish to have:

----------------------------------------------------

Motherboard: Abit (model ?)*
CPU: P4 2.2/2.26*
Memory: Micron 256MB x 2 PC2100 DDR*
HDD: Maxtor 80Gb ATA 133 7200RPM
Video: MSI GeForce4 Ti 4600 128MB
Sound: SoundBlaster Live! 5.1
CD-RW: Lite-On 40x
Case: Antec w/ 300 Watt PSU



*will be based on what is compatible and best for my budget

----------------------------------------------------

I also wish to know what are the pros and cons to owning a P4 2.2 than to owning an Athlon XP 2100+. I'm not going to be doing any major overclocking (or maybe none at all) so I doubt I will need an enormous fan for the CPU, right? Thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing some of your input. =)

More about : build

June 18, 2002 1:16:13 AM

Regarding chipsets, these refer to two chips on the motherboard which control various buses which connect components on the MB. This does not refer to the CPU. In the case of the XP2100 there are no compatability issues to wory about. As far as the chipsets available which are compatible with XPs, the KT266A and KT333 chipsets (as well as others) are very stable and should offer no more problems than chipsets for Intel processors. Also, don't let anyone tell you that AMD processors are prone to burning up (complete BS). I'm sure you are still interested in an Intel system but just make sure you make this decision on good information.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 18, 2002 1:20:20 AM

certainly a stupid question but is this forum only p4 related?

i saw p4 topics in much sections and threads but maybe there is a reason?



:smile: i like toasted cpus but not AMD-inside. :smile:
Related resources
June 18, 2002 1:28:13 AM

Well, one thing Intel CPUs are really geared for overclocking. I mean they're not made to be overclocked, but they o/c very well. AMD procs don't overclock nearly as well, but they go for less and perform better. I've not heard anything bad about AMD's chips, so I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

My firewall tastes like burning. :eek: 
June 18, 2002 1:28:22 AM

Quote:
the 2.2GHz w/ 512 Cache 400FSB and the 2.26GHz w/ 512 Cache 533FSB. I know the higher the number for the FSB the better, but is it that much of a difference in performance?

the 2.26, or Pentium 4b has a higher FSB, offering it more memory bandwidth, which the Pentium4 needs for more performance. There is a sizeable increase from the 2.2a to the 2.26b.

Quote:
I was going to go with an AMD Athlon XP 2100+, but I was reading other forums on the Net and it seems as though a lot of people are having numerous types of problems with that specific chipset along with different types of motherboards.

that is nothing more than Intel and AMDMELTDOWN FUD. There is absolutely no problems with the new and old chipsets, unless you happen to try to run the AXP 2100+ on a very, very old Athlon motherboard, like with a crappy KX-133 chipset. No, the new motherboards and chipsets are very stable. As a plus, the AXP 2100+ costs less than the Pentium4 counterparts

Quote:
Also, what type of memory do I need to get this running properly? My brother-in-law says that he can get ahold of some Micron 256MB PC2100 DDR from his work for really cheap ($38?). Will that work with this specific chipset?

Well, that depends on the motherboard and chipset you choose. Great, you chose Abit as the manufacturer, now you need to choose which Pentium4 motherboard model you want. If you want to use DDR, get one with the i845G/Sis645DX/Via P4X333 chipset, they all support DDR 333. The cheap ram your bro in law is talking about is slower PC-266, you can get faster RAM online. Try Newegg.com, get some memory from Corsair/Crucial/Micron, so on, PC-333. Now...if you want to get an RDRAM board, then you of course, can't use that micron DDR. Abit has a very popular board, the Th7-II, which supports RDRAM. I'd go for that.

Quote:

Motherboard: Abit (model ?)*
CPU: P4 2.2/2.26*
Memory: Micron 256MB x 2 PC2100 DDR*
HDD: Maxtor 80Gb ATA 133 7200RPM
Video: MSI GeForce4 Ti 4600 128MB
Sound: SoundBlaster Live! 5.1
CD-RW: Lite-On 40x
Case: Antec w/ 300 Watt PSU

downgrade the Geforce4 Ti4600 to a Ti4200 128MB to save money, then overclock it to Ti4400 speeds, or if you're lucky, about Ti4600 speeds. Ditch the SB Live!, get a SB Audigy value, or well, anything but the SB Live!, there is so many better cards out there now.

Quote:
I also wish to know what are the pros and cons to owning a P4 2.2 than to owning an Athlon XP 2100+. I'm not going to be doing any major overclocking (or maybe none at all) so I doubt I will need an enormous fan for the CPU, right? Thanks in advance and I look forward to hearing some of your input. =)


you're going to have to fork out more money for the 2.2/2.26 P4 than the AXP 2100+. If you are oc'ing, the stock P4 fan is enough for small overclocks, for serious overclocks, you need a bigger fan, stock won't cut it.


"When there's a will, there's a way."
June 18, 2002 3:14:46 AM

in my opinion, the only time it would be to your advantage to buy a p4 over an axp is if you're getting their 2.53 ghz 533 mhz fsb processor, but that costs $600, if you're thinking about geting a 2.26 or 2.4, than you might as well save $200 and go for the axp 2100+ Very stable, better technology and performance, for a cheaper price.
June 18, 2002 3:28:31 AM

Quote:
the stock P4 fan is enough for small overclocks, for serious overclocks, you need a bigger fan, stock won't cut it.


Tell that to fatburger with his 1.6a@2.5ghz, the p4 stock fan is very nice, no need to spend more even if you plan on hardcore overclocking.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 18, 2002 3:43:03 AM

Your friend is correct, the information you have read is correct about AMD chipsets and board selection.

The AMD Zealots try hard to bury the truth. AMD has always been stupid in relying on 3rd parties to make the chipsets. First most damaging example is the first reported <A HREF="http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/fxp_2200/" target="_new">Tbred death reported</A> was in a <A HREF="http://www.asusemag.com.tw/tech/ch5/ch5-1.htm" target="_new">Asus "COP" motherboard</A> and it died from overheating. Asus removed the "COP" banner from the top of the page the same day the Tbred death was posted on the net. The very technology designed to prevent "accidental cooling malfunction to cause CPU's burning down" was shot down in flames.

I have heard lots of talk of how great the AMD fabs were and how great the process is and the high yields of superior chips, blah blah blah and now 2H 2002 is coming to a close less than 2 weeks left and Tbred desktop yet to ship, <A HREF="http://www.cbwnet.com/" target="_new">retailers reporting</A> only OEM will be available at first, with OEM you get no manufacturer warranty.

Ok, enough AMD bashing.

Abit makes good motherboards, Asus as well.

DDR PC2100 will work just fine and you can overclock with adjustments to memory timing and voltage.

I would go for the 2.26B over the 2.2A
Also a SB Audigy instead of a SB Live.

Since you are going with DDR and Abit there are 2 main choices depending on what options you want.

The BD7-II has 2 port ATA133 RAID, high FSB, memory voltage adjustments, PS2 ports, USB 2.0, LPT port, serial ports, built in audio can be disabled if you get one with audio. This is the "legacy" version

The IT7 has 4 port ATA133 RAID, USB 2.0, Firewire ports, 6.1 w/optical audio(can be disabled), high FSB, higher memory voltage adjustments, 10/100 lan, 2 ata133 ports (6 total IDE ports), this is the "legacy free" version as it has no LPT, COM, or PS2 ports.

Be ready with USB Keyboard and mouse if you go with the IT7, it is what I use personally now. I do like the onboard sound, I was using a audigy.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
June 18, 2002 3:51:54 AM

it called the lexus is here, but i do like its japanies name more.

are you from japan? i love japan

<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com" target="_new"><b><font color=green>Go To My Site</A>
June 18, 2002 4:43:19 AM

i recommend the Gigabyte GA-7VRXP, an amd xp 2000+, and 256mb pc2700 samsung ddr ram. i built my first computer about 2 weeks ago for my cousin. It was so easy. You dont even have to look at the manual. they give you a fold out sheet telling you all the basic stuff to get you up and running. there was only one dip switch and that was changing the FSB from 100 to 133. The reviews for this board arent too shabby too. Give it a look at newegg. they rule!
June 18, 2002 6:50:22 AM

scamtron: Off topic, but yes I know the US version of the Altezza is a Lexus, namely, the IS300. I'm not from Japan, but I do own a 2002 IS300 5spd. Check it out...

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/xfour20x/lst?.dir=/2002+Lexu...

Everyone else: Thanks for posting your input and help. I'll take what you guys say into consideration. =)
June 18, 2002 8:10:32 AM

huh? what off topic?

its right on man

<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com" target="_new"><b><font color=green>Go To My Site</A>
June 18, 2002 1:07:58 PM

enough with the FUD fugger! this guy is looking for advice he doesnt need you spreading FUD. if you bother to read the article (you can read cant you?) you will notice he says he plugged the hsf into the PWR FAN header by mistake. so like i said originally its another case of user error. get me a new P4B and i bet i could make that overheat as well with a little bit of "user error".
Altezza: if you are going to overclock then get a pentium 1.6a or 1.8A. by all accounts these are superb overclockers and by far the best value for money.
if you are going to run at stock speeds get the Athlonxp 2100+ these are much better value for money at stock speeds than any intel processor.


I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
June 18, 2002 3:06:16 PM

Some people are lucky enough that money is not a concern...if that's the case, go for the Intel systems, they do have a performance edge...

One thing you need to share with us is what the system owner is going to be using the system for. Sure the system you quoted rocks, but is it necessary?? You could certainly cut some price out of it and still have a VERY capable system that will handle any game thats out today just fine. I mean, if this guy is willing to compromise a bit of performance, you could easily cut 300 or 400 off that sytem.

My personal recommendation would be a Iwill XP333 board (or whatever that model name is...its 80 bucks), an Athlon XP 1700 (round 100 bucks), some DDR2700, Raideon 8500 (100 bucks at newegg), and a seagate barracuda IV 7200 rpm HD (quiet and cheap). But the take home message is that Intel is good, what you have picked now will work excellently (get the 533 fsb) but it'll be pricy...you can explore some other options and find something that will work good and be considerably nicer on this guys pocketbook!
June 18, 2002 3:46:25 PM

id say go with intel even if you dont plan to overclock...because eventually you will...if you have absolutely zero desire to overclock....then amd it is...
but IMO...you should get the P4 1.6A or 1.8A with an abit board (ddr or rdram) and some good old samsung ram (again...ddr or rdram...depending on your motherboard), and overclock the kimchee out of it.

:eek:  <b>Who fixed <font color=red>ATI</font color=red>'s leaky faucet??</b> :eek: 
June 18, 2002 3:49:02 PM

Quote:
Motherboard: Abit (model ?)*


I've always used Abit motherboards and love them. I've currently got an TH7II-RAID (i850 chipset, uses RDRAM), the BD7 is a good board too (i845 chipset, uses DDR). You might go for the DDR setup since you can get the memory cheap, but RDRAM is the best performer, I always recommend it.

Quote:
CPU: P4 2.2/2.26*


This is of course where the biggest decision lies. You said you won't overclock, so I recommend an Athlon system. The 1800+ seems to be about the best spot for good performance at a low price. By a retail model and use the included heatsink, it works fine. Look around the motherboard section, you should find plenty of recommendations. Don't let the "Oh no, I have a problem!" threads scare you off, they aren't in any way indicative of the % of people that actually have problems with any given piece of hardware.

Quote:
Memory: Micron 256MB x 2 PC2100 DDR*


Buying "Micron" memory is always a crap shoot. Micron doesn't make sticks of RAM, they only make the chips. What you're buying is sticks of RAM with Micron chips, it could be a decent manufacturer or a really crappy one. You're better off ordering RAM from a good manufacturer (Crucial or Samsung, preferably).

Quote:
Video: MSI GeForce4 Ti 4600 128MB


I'll agree with whoever said to get a Ti4400 or Ti4200. The price difference is much more than the performance difference.

Quote:
Sound: SoundBlaster Live! 5.1


The Live sucks, get a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz instead, it's about the best consumer card on the market.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 18, 2002 4:56:26 PM

hey buddy, i've seen you recommend that sound card, the Turtle beach over the Audigy card many times. I use a Live! for home recording and it works great, so can you give me a link to the turtle beach sound card, i want to have a look at it :) 


Trolls, this Fud's for you!
June 18, 2002 6:18:17 PM

Thanks everyone for all your input! You are surely helping me out in making my decision. What have I decided to get?...well, I haven't yet. All this help is making me rethink my decision in if I should go with Intel or AMD. Keep the posts coming, I enjoy reading what you guys have to say and about your personal experiences with the two competitors. Thanks again! =)
June 18, 2002 6:28:30 PM

cheers mate, an interesting card (that i've never seen ever before)

perhaps i'm in the wrong forum to discuss it though :) 

<font color=red>FUDweiser......True</font color=red>
June 18, 2002 6:50:06 PM

You'll find plenty of discussion on it in the sound forum.

<font color=blue>Hi mom!</font color=blue>
June 23, 2002 1:52:58 AM

"downgrade the Geforce4 Ti4600 to a Ti4200 128MB to save money, then overclock it to Ti4400 speeds, or if you're lucky, about Ti4600 speeds. Ditch the SB Live!, get a SB Audigy value, or well, anything but the SB Live!, there is so many better cards out there now."

A valiant effort at prudence, Queztacoatl, but tests seem to show that the GF4 ti 4200, 4400, and 4600 seem to all overclock about the same. I might still suggest the 4200 just like you did, but only because the 4400 is the start of a steep incline in the pricing curve. But hell, with PARHELIA 512 just THREE DAYS AWAY now why not wait? That fragment anti-aliasing sounds tasty!

"The Live sucks, get a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz instead, it's about the best consumer card on the market."

<A HREF="http://tomshardware.pricegrabber.com/rating_getprodrev...." target="_new">reviews, not all of them, look at newegg ones too below</A>

(posted this in the sound card forum too, and yes I do click on ads :smile: )

Sorry about that, Quetzacoatl. They don't overclock exactly the same amounts but I thought he was a hardcore gamer so that it wouldn't really matter as much. My reason for saying this was that I thought he would just want speed more than anything else. I know I was wrong.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cakecake on 06/24/02 04:31 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 23, 2002 2:01:23 AM

Quote:
A valiant effort at prudence, Queztacoatl, but tests seem to show that the GF4 ti 4200, 4400, and 4600 seem to all overclock about the same. I might still suggest the 4200 just like you did, but only because the 4400 is the start of a steep incline in the pricing curve.


what the hell are you talking about? "A valiant effort at prudence, Queztacoatl, but tests seem to show that the GF4 ti 4200, 4400, and 4600 seem to all overclock about the same" No, they don't overclock the same, relatively close, but not the same amounts. If he wants to save some money then he can get the Ti4200 and OC it. Even at stock speeds, the Ti4200 is very fast.

Quote:
But hell, with PARHELIA 512 just THREE DAYS AWAY now why not wait? That fragment anti-aliasing sounds tasty!

I've found Matrox (like any company) to release sketch drivers for new products. Well, that's a big duh, but it would be wiser to wait a while, and buy established products.



"When there's a will, there's a way."
a b à CPUs
June 23, 2002 7:51:51 AM

You know you're lying when you tell people VIA chipsets are just as stable and compatable as anything and everything else. Deny all you want, you know you're lying.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
June 23, 2002 10:03:37 AM

Quote:
You know you're lying when you tell people VIA chipsets are just as stable and compatable as anything and everything else. Deny all you want, you know you're lying.


Modern via chipsets are just as stable aas anything else, and unless you have a penchant for 2 year old ancient cards which specifically have issues with via they are just as compatable with modern hardware.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 23, 2002 11:37:44 AM

What is the budget for this computer?

As you have noticed some people here have an axe to grind when it comes to cpus. So go for a concensus and do not give one individual's opinion too much weight.

Both AMD and Intel produce very good products which will meet your needs. The choice between the two comes down to value, overclocking, and performance.

If you are going to run your system at stock speeds, AMD offers the best value. If you go with Intel you will pay more.
If you are going to overclock the P4A cpus are the way to go. Do a search on this forum to get some idea of what overclocks members are getting.
Right now Intel builds the fastest cpu but it costs over $600 USD.

Concerning sounds cards, the Tech Report recently put up a sound card comparison which is worth reading.
http://www.tech-report.com/

"Just the facts ma'am"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 23, 2002 4:35:41 PM

you ain't compat<i>a</i>ble but via is!


Intel for free. AMD for fee.
June 23, 2002 7:06:56 PM

Wow Crash. I normally respect what you have to say but I can't respect that. I know you haven't owned a KT-266A or KT-333 motherboard because you're boycotting via, so you're not speaking from personal experience on THESE chipsets. Are you also boycotting all the articles and reviews on multiple hardware sites touting these chipsets to be the best and to be very stable for Tbirds and XPs. Maybe Via is just paying them large sums of money to give good reviews. Maybe Via is giving large sums of money to all the people who own motherboards with these chipsets to keep their mouths shut about their problems (sorry about the sarcasm). I've encountered a few more issues with my current motherboard, XP333, than I did with my last, A7V (which I also had coupled with a creative soundcard).
a b à CPUs
June 24, 2002 12:36:21 AM

d00d, they said the same things about the KT266, the KT133A, the KT133, and even the MVP3. And I have worked on all of those. Problem is that reviewers don't have time to check them for everything.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
June 24, 2002 1:07:47 AM

Ok you got me. I admit it: I and several others acting in the middle of the night posted numerous fake reviews. Right, uh huh.

Go to the sound card forum and ask how people like their TBSCs.


Cleaning out dust with canned air, is there anything more enjoyable?
June 24, 2002 6:26:23 AM

Santa cruz [-peep-] 0WNZ J00!


I love it, sounds so much nicer than my old live.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 24, 2002 6:49:11 AM

in HK, there is so much money laundering nobody is talking about it. the chinese is good at keeping the common silent and they did it well for 5000 years. i have no doubt about that
June 24, 2002 8:38:22 AM

I would like to inform you guys that I don't have a Santa Cruz, but also that it could possibly have issues with Windows 98. A month ago, Turtle Beach posted on their web site saying that they would completely stop supporting Windows 98 with their drivers. But suddenly they have new beta drivers in the works again and new vxd drivers, so who knows.

Look at my post here just for links (not my opinion)

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam..." target="_new">Sound card forum</A>

I don't mean to patronize anyone with this post. I would just like people to know about any possible incompatibilities. There are still quite a lot of people who use Windows 98. May I remind you that of the Half-Life gamers who took the speakeasy.net survey, 49.2% (over 220,000) use Windows 98, 16.6% use Windows Me, and 23.8% use Windows XP. I find it very fishy when a company asks its customers to beta test its drivers and report bugs to them. If anyone can run this card fine under Windows 98 without crashes, then please let others who are considering this card know.

This little cathode light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!
June 24, 2002 10:52:33 AM

Cakecake, stopping supporting an old os with drivers does not mean theres a compatability issue, it just means they will no longer release new drivers for 98, this is how all hardware companies will be soon, 98 is old hat, xp is the main windows now.

I ran my santacruz in 98 just fine, and the drivers they have out now will work fine in 98, dropping support of 98()in new driver revisions) is a good thing because it allows them to concentrate on xp and the more modern os's.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 24, 2002 1:58:05 PM

Altezza,

Stay away from the P4 2.26B. Get the 1.8A and OC it (if you get an Asus mobo you can OC in the bios rather easily, just not with the northwood B). Also get the most advance mobo so you can wait longer to upgrade it in the future and get the 430W PSU.

HULK SMASH!!!
!