1.4ghz t-bird won't go 1.4gHz

[Kieran]

Greetings... newbie to this board here.

I just bought a new cpu for my system, the T-Bird 1.4GHz(133/266) with the "glorious" AYHJA designation. It replaces a 1.0GHz t-bird (100/200 fsb)

My problem: The chip won't run at 1.4GHz, let alone anything over 1.4 (ummm... actually I haven't tried anything over 1.4 yet, to be honest.) However it is stable at 1.33 GHz (133 fsb, 10x multiplier, 1.75V core).

My system:
*Abit KT7A-RAID w/ BIOS version 7N, which supports up to 1.4GHz T-birds, and 133MHz fsb. (this mobo is NOT the new version 1.3 KT7A, but the original with the latest BIOS).
*512MB PC133 Crucial RAM, CL=2 (2x 256MB dimms)
*Asus v7100 geforce2mx video, 32MB
*Windows XP pro.

The symptoms: When I set the speed to 1400 (133fsb/10.5x multiplier, 1.75V core) the system (usually) boots to windows, but locks up as soon as I start an app (like I.E.) It won't even recognize the case power button. I have to either hit the reset button or cycle the powersupply's switch.

The RAM is new also. It replaces a 256MB PC133 DIMM that was working fine, but was CL=3. I don't think the RAM is a factor, as I initially ONLY replaced the cpu, and had the same symptoms. Then I replaced the RAM and the symptoms did not change. Still locks up at 1400, stable at 1330.

I'm not experienced at all in overclocking or cpu's in general really. So, am I missing something? Did I not do something I should have? Or is the cpu just bad, and I need to send it back?

If this has been covered before, I'm sorry... I tried searching, but couldn't seem to narrow the hits down to anything relavent to this.

Thanks for any advice!

-Kieran

 

[Matisaro]

Are you using the same heatsink which you used with the 1ghz tbird?

Amd 1ghz heatsinks wont cope with 1.4ghz cpus.

Also your psu may not be powerful enough to handle the powerdrain 1.4ghz causes.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Kieran]

Forgot to say... I did upgrade the heatsink to the Zalman CNPS3100-Plus. Not the best heatsink out there, but it's the quietest, and was rated for a 1.4GHz Athlon, so I figured it would work. My cpu temps are stable at 40C at 1.33gHz, but I can't even check the temps while at 1400 (except from the BIOS, not sure if that counts.)

How do I know if my power supply is the culprit? It's a 300W, from Sparkle Power Int'l, model # FSP300-60BT. In addition to what I already listed, it is powering a Western Digital 80GB eide drive, Pioneer dvd-105s, Lite-on 40x12x48x cd-rw drive, plain-jane floppy, soundblaster live, modem, NIC, and... that's about it.

-Kieran

 

[Matisaro]

OK, its not temp, I want you to try this.


Lower your vcore to 1.7v, then go to 1.4ghz, let me know if it runs, if it does, its your psu, if not try 1.725, if neither of those work the only way to test the psu is to get a new one and try that.


Sparkle psus suck, but it is 300w, it is possible that it is your issue, try my suggestion and get back to us.


The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Kieran]

Hey, thanks for the help. It's running now at 1.4gHz, with a core voltage at 1.7V. So, what does this mean? Is there a problem running at 1.7V instead of 1.75V? Do I need a new PSU? I was considering getting a new PSU anyway, because this one is *SO* loud. But decided to hold off for now. But if I need a new one to be stable, I guess I could get one.

Thanks,

-Kieran

 

[Matisaro]

What it means is that your psu is on the edge of its ability, if the tbird runs at 1.7 volts and you have no lockups then you are fine(but dont add any more hardware.

Optimally you will want to buy a new 350watt psu, like a good enermax or something, but this solution will work for as long as you need it too assuming its stable under load, which you will need to test, and that you dont add anything new to your pc.


Your welcome for the help.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Kieran]

What's a good easy cheap way to test stability under load? The only thing I can think of is just to open a bunch of apps, play some 3d fps games, etc. Are there any freeware testing utilities for download that would do a better job?

edit:
BTW I just realized that even though in SoftMenu3 I set the voltage to 1.7, the VIA Hardware Manager shows it at 1.72v... not sure if this means anything.

Thanks,

-Kieran<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Kieran on 06/22/02 05:00 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Matisaro]

Download an application called prime 95, then run the torture test, if your computer dosent lock, or give errors in the torture test, then you can be safe in its stability.


If the test passes and your core is at 1.7volts, then you can keep your current psu untill you want to add new hardware or overclock or anything like that.

Good luck.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Kieran]

Well... 2 things...

1) Is Prime95 this prime number search tool that I found? If so, it's taking an HOUR to do the initial test/setup.

2) I don't really need to test things, as my system locked up again while I was browsing to find Prime95. I shutdown and put it back to 1.33gHz/1.75V for now. So, I guess I really do need a new PSU?

-Kieran

 

[Matisaro]

2) I don't really need to test things, as my system locked up again while I was browsing to find Prime95. I shutdown and put it back to 1.33gHz/1.75V for now. So, I guess I really do need a new PSU?

Yep, you need a new psu, before you do though, set it to 1.4 and 1.725, see if thats stable, if it isnt then a new psu is in your future kemosabe.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[jihiggs]

how do you figure sparkle sucks? i have used them a lot, we use sparkle at work in all our machines, have for quite a long time, only had 2 or 3 have the fan go out and start rattling and one up and died out of 600 or so.

how do you shoot the devil in the back? what happens if you miss? -verbal

 

[Matisaro]

how do you figure sparkle sucks? i have used them a lot, we use sparkle at work in all our machines, have for quite a long time, only had 2 or 3 have the fan go out and start rattling and one up and died out of 600 or so.

I have only had one 300w psu that couldnt handle 1.4ghz+, it was a sparkle, I got an enermax and never looked back.



The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[juin]

thank for the info the a new

Never stop learning

cheap, cheap. Think cheap, and you'll always be cheap.AMD version of semi conducteur industrie

 

[Kieran]

Well, it booted to windows, got IE started, but locked up as soon as I started the prime95 software, at 1.4gHz & 1.725V (which the VIA hardware manager showed as 1.74, by the way.) And as I mentioned before the VIA HM showed the 1.7V setting in the bios as 1.72V.

Right now, I'm running IE, outlook, the hardware manager, and the torture test on prime95, with the cpu at 1400 & 1.675V (which the HM shows as 1.68 -- close enough).

If its stable at 1.68V is there any danger in leaving it here for now? Or should I just run it at 1.33gHz/1.75V until I get a new PSU?

-Kieran

 

[Matisaro]

If its stable at 1.68V is there any danger in leaving it here for now? Or should I just run it at 1.33gHz/1.75V until I get a new PSU?

if it runs stable there is no danger running it at a lower voltage, also your core temp will be lower(slightly).


After the prime95 tedst play some games and compress some files, if you dont get a lockup then you are 100% good to go at this voltage.

Remember, if you want to overclock any or add new hardware you will need a new psu, because this one is at its limit.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Kieran]

Well, it locked up after 5 minutes or so on the torture test. So, I'm giving up for now, and leaving it at 1.33gHz and 1.75V until I can get a new PSU.

Thanks again for your help. I'll post back here with results after I get a new PSU.

-Kieran

 

[Matisaro]

Im sorry to hear that, you can try to set the voltage even lower, give it one more college try, your stepping overclocked very well and thusly can run on lower voltage.

All in all 1.33ghz isnt that much slower than 1.4, enermax is the best psu you can buy btw.

The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark

 

[Kieran]

your stepping overclocked very well and thusly can run on lower voltage

What do you mean by the above? "stepping overclocked very well" ? What's stepping? I didn't think I had done any overclocking. Again... total newbie (or "stranger" even...)

Not that I know what I'm talking about, so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read of others trying to overclock various chips... doesn't one usually need to INCREASE the voltage when overclocking to get stability? (thus the need for better cooling...) So, I assume that as you decrease the voltage for a given clock/fsb speed, you are approaching instability. You've had me dropping the voltage, which makes sense, since you think my psu is at its limit. But am I right to assume that as I drop the core voltage lower and lower, I'm also approaching the limit of what the cpu needs in order to maintain a 1.4gHz speed?

Also, what's the I/O voltage for on the SmartMenuIII setup? (I know I/O means input/output... but what's the voltage setting for this, used for?) I've left it alone through out all this.

-Kieran

 

[8235k8hta]

Lower your vcore to 1.7v, then go to 1.4ghz, let me know if it runs, if it does, its your psu, if not try 1.725, if neither of those work the only way to test the psu is to get a new one and try that.


Sparkle psus suck, but it is 300w, it is possible that it is your issue, try my suggestion and get back to us.

lower the vCore for 0.25v against a 300w psu plus a slight configuration?!?
i guess this willn't work.

 

[8235k8hta]

FMI, what is exactly your configuration?

 

[8235k8hta]

to test your psu & to know if it is the issue,

disconnect the alim from the Pioneer dvd-105s, the Lite-on 40x12x48x cd-rw drive, the plain-jane floppy. unplug your soundblaster live, your modem card (if it is) and your NIC.

set your cpu to 1.4Ghz and retry.

 

[8235k8hta]

have you modified your bios settings or update it?
another test is to reset the bios and load bios default.

 

[Crashman]

Do you like my signature?

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>

 

[SammyBoy]

Stepping is the AG*** coding on the CPU. It represents, to AMD at least, revisions made to the core. The T-Birds (pre-Athlon XP) cores had a A*** codes, and the so-called best OC'er is the AXIA, which I own, but with too much overclocking, I am no longer able to reach to 1.4-1.47GHz speeds I used too... I'm stuck at 1.27 on a 1.2GHz CPU.

But I digress. Your PSU woes, if that is indeed the case, should be solved if you get an Antec TruePower or Enermax, preferably around 350W... but the most important part of the PSU is not the wattage, but the amps the PSU can push along the 5V rail. According to AMD's latest system builder's guide (the current Tech Tour that AMD is putting on), the PSU must be able to supply 45 amps along the 5V line. Strangely enough, I have not been able to find a single PSU that is able to fulfill this requirement, unless you're talking 550W or more. So, it is either a typo at [H], or AMD is not talking about the 5V rails in the same way that PSU makers talk about them. Regardless, a 330W or 380W TruePower from Antec or similar wattage PSU from Enermax should be enough... it'll run you around $75. Or, you can do what my brother did and take advantage of <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com" target="_new">Newegg's</A> good PSU prices and get a 430W TruePower, which is way more than anyone would need right now, unless you are a die-hard overclocker and/or case modder (which my brother <i>says</i> he will do, though he has none of the tools needed). I think that ran him $85 after shipping.

As to the Vcore, generally, the highest overclocks you see are due to extreme cooling (liquid nitrogen) and voltage mods that allow +2V to be pushed through the core. This forces the electrons to follow their intended path more closely, but has the undesired effect of greatly increasing core temps and shortning, sometimes drasitically, the life of the CPU. One way to test the overclockability of any given CPU is to underclock it. Usually this is done by dropping the Vcore as low as it will go, then seeing the fastest that the CPU can run stable. If you have something to compare this too, you can get a good idea of how well the system will overclock, as the theory is that if a CPU rated at 1.4GHz@1.75Vcore can run 1.4GHz@1.65Vcore, then it should be able to run the default Vcore past 1.4GHz no problem, which would be considered by some to be a safer overclock than upping the Vcore past default just to get an extra 66MHz. Though, I will attest that just because the Vcore isn't upped, the heat alone can cripple the CPU after a while... *mutters something about overclocking with an AMD retail HSF and 60C temps*

Anywho, if you have a supposedly good OC'ing core, you should be able to drop the Vcore without problem, just make sure to run Prime95. And finally, just to confuse you more, the VIO setting, at least from what I remember, is used to adjust the voltage for the RAM. In theory, just like with the Vcore, bumping that up .1V might be just enough to make a flaky overclock into a solid one. That's a tweak, though, I wouldn't recommend unless you get yourself some heat spreaders for the RAM, and a lot of case cooling.

-SammyBoy

 

[Kieran]

Wow... lots of great info. Thanks.

Actually Newegg is where I bought the cpu and RAM. If only they were out of state for me.

Enermax's "whisper" models of PSU's were recommended to me for their low noise. Not sure which models shown on Newegg's site are the quiet ones though. I don't mind spending an extra $20 on a PSU to go up to 400+ Watts if it means problems like this will be less likely to occur.

-Kieran