Comp Upgrade

Well I got a Radeon 8500LE 128MB and did some testing and stuff and it seems like my comp:

P4 1.4GHz 256KB L2 cache 423 Socket
256MB RDRAM
Radeon 8500LE 128MB
SB Live! 5.1
40GB Maxtor 7200RPM

is holding me back. I was wondering would it be worth it to upgrade to so...:

P4 1.7GHz Retail 423 Socket - $172
add 2x128MB Samsung PC800 RDRAM - 2x$49=$98

Comes out to $270USD. I can do that or just wait a while and build a whole new comp. What do you suggest?

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
53 answers Last reply
More about comp upgrade
  1. Are you using PC600 RDRAM now?

    $270 sounds like a bad investment for another Willamette and two sticks of 128MB RDRAM.

    Wouldn't you rather have a nice shiny Northwood system?

    <b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
  2. Hell no dude, the performance increase is useless to be honest.
    I would definitly go for a cheap Northwood setup, you can then OC it!
    BTW don't you usually look for CDN shops, whether online or near you?

    --
    :smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
  3. Nope I got PC800. I could have chose either PC600 or PC800, I chose the PC800. Smart me (didn't even know what it meant back then). Yeah I would rather a nice Northwood, but the thing is, I was thinking of trying to keep as much as possible. I was gonna just use this as a stop-gap before I acutally fully build a new computer. I want to wait till Prescott/Hammer 0.09u before I do that though. Yeah I guess this'll have to do for now, unless I can scronge up some more money for a whole system.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  4. Quote:
    Hell no dude, the performance increase is useless to be honest.
    I would definitly go for a cheap Northwood setup, you can then OC it!
    BTW don't you usually look for CDN shops, whether online or near you?

    Well, I answered part of your question. If possible, could you get me some Canadian prices for a P4 NW system? Preferably pretty cheap. Just put in whatever I need. What I don't need, speakers, monitor, keyboard/mouse, or a floppy drive. Only need a CD-ROM for optical drives. I already have a burner. (Oh yeah, I'd like to build it myself.) I've got about $2000CAD right now, although I'll be able to get more. I'll see if it's worth it and if it's really give me much more performance than my crap P4 right now.

    Why I don't look for CDN stores, well there are no quality store on PEI and as for online stores, I don't know any. I remember getting a price quote from a store in Moncton. I'll try and dig that up.


    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  5. Sorry, thought those OEM rigs only had a couple of memory slots so I was wondering why you would want 128MB sticks.

    I don't think the extra memory will do much, not for games.

    Doesn't seem to me that a 1.7 ghz Willamette over a 1.4 would be worth the effort either. Of course, you already know that for me only 50% gains or more are worth any serious money.


    <b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
  6. I have 2 sticks of 128MB PC800 RDRAM and I have 2 C-RIMM things. Yeah after this, I don't think I'll upgrade. If anything I'll just build a new computer. Now only if Eden were here... I'mm PM him.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  7. I found the old price quote I got and here it is.

    Intel P4 1.8A
    Asus P4S333
    512MB PC2100 DDR RAM
    40GB Maxtor HDD
    Asus 52x CD-ROM
    3.5" Floppy
    Quest Case and 300W PSU (generic?)
    D-Link 10/100Mb Ethernet card
    SB Live! 5.1
    GF4 Ti4400

    It came out to $1750CAD, but that was 2-3 months ago I think. He said that he put some savings into the bundle cause I'd be buying a whole system. I'd prefer a DDR333 mobo and DDR 333 RAM. Also, I don't know about the case. He also didn't say what brand the Ti4400 was.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  8. Quote:


    Well, I answered part of your question. If possible, could you get me some Canadian prices for a P4 NW system? Preferably pretty cheap. Just put in whatever I need. What I don't need, speakers, monitor, keyboard/mouse, or a floppy drive. Only need a CD-ROM for optical drives. I already have a burner. (Oh yeah, I'd like to build it myself.) I've got about $2000CAD right now, although I'll be able to get more. I'll see if it's worth it and if it's really give me much more performance than my crap P4 right now.


    $2000CDN? That's a lot actually. Here's a quote of the prices from my local computer store (Canada Computers). It will probably vary a bit in other stores.

    Pentium 4 1.6A $230
    Abit BD7-RAID $154
    512MB Samsung DDR RAM $168
    Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB cache $196
    Generic 9301K Case $45
    Enermax 350W $65
    Hercules Game Theater XP OEM $146
    Pioneer 16X Tray Load OEM $69
    Linksys 10/100 Mbps Network Card $20

    Total (before tax): $1091

    If you want to keep your RDRAM (you didn't mention that), then get an Abit TH7-II (or Abit TH7-RAID), that's about $205. Then you can get two sticks of 128MB RDRAM, for $87 * 2.

    That thing should overclock to 2.4GHz with stock fan. Of course, for either the TH7-II or BD7 then get the latest BIOS.

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  9. Quote:


    Well, I answered part of your question. If possible, could you get me some Canadian prices for a P4 NW system? Preferably pretty cheap. Just put in whatever I need. What I don't need, speakers, monitor, keyboard/mouse, or a floppy drive. Only need a CD-ROM for optical drives. I already have a burner. (Oh yeah, I'd like to build it myself.) I've got about $2000CAD right now, although I'll be able to get more. I'll see if it's worth it and if it's really give me much more performance than my crap P4 right now.


    $2000CDN? That's a lot actually. Here's a quote of the prices from my local computer store (Canada Computers). It will probably vary a bit in other stores.

    Pentium 4 1.6A $230
    Abit BD7-RAID $154
    512MB Samsung DDR RAM $168
    Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM 8MB cache $196
    Generic 9301K Case $45
    Enermax 350W $65
    Hercules Game Theater XP OEM $146
    Pioneer 16X Tray Load OEM $69
    Linksys 10/100 Mbps Network Card $20

    Total (before tax): $1091

    If you want to keep your RDRAM (you didn't mention that), then get an Abit TH7-II (or Abit TH7-RAID), that's about $205. Then you can get two sticks of 128MB RDRAM, for $87 * 2.

    That thing should overclock to 2.4GHz with stock fan. Of course, for either the TH7-II or BD7 then get the latest BIOS.

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  10. Actually I also need a video card. How much is a GF4 Ti4200? Is there like a website for that store? Thanks a lot. Looks like I won't need $2000!! Yeah! Ohh... lovely HDD too.. dunno if I really need that high qualitiness.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  11. What's that in USD, about $722?

    Now, you have me drooling, but I'd go for a 1.8A and RDRAM (even though I still hate Rambus).

    <b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
  12. What's that in USD, about $722?

    Now you have me drooling, but I'd go for a 1.8A and RDRAM (even though I still hate Rambus).

    <b>I have so many cookies I now have a FAT problem!</b>
  13. The ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4200 64MB is $239. The 64MB Radeon 8500 OEM with 3.3ns RAM is $168 (the same $99US one at NewEgg), I believe, at NCIX. That's all Canadian funds, of course. The ASUS V8420 GeForce4 4200 128MB DDR is $309.

    BTW, $168 CDN is more like $108 US but that's still in the same range as the NewEgg card.

    BTW, that RAM is actually PC2700 Samsung which is highly overclockable.

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  14. Quote:

    Ohh... lovely HDD too.. dunno if I really need that high qualitiness.

    Hehe, the 80GB JB drive is relatively cheap and its extremely fast and surprising quiet from what I heard. I'm getting one myself.

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  15. Well I did some more studying and now I have a couple questions. First off I would rather a P4 1.8A. That's and okay choice right? I'll just try to get the FSB to 133MHz. Second, how does the i845D/E chipset compare to a SiS 645DX? From the reviews I see, it shows the SiS chipset beating the PC800 in 2/3 of the time. Now the reviews have the i845E/D chipsets running with PC2100 instead of the PC2700 the SiS chipset runs with. I was wondering if the Asus P4S533 is worth the $20 over the ABIT BD7. Also is the PC-2700 DDR RAM Samsung? How do you know? It doesn't say anything...

    This is what I came up with:

    P4 1.8A Retail box - $275
    512MB PC2700 - $179
    ASUS P4S533 SiS645DX - $169
    80GB WD w/8MB cache - $196
    Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM Tray-Load - $69
    Antec PLUS660 w/ 330W PSU - $162
    ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4400 - $359
    Creative Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 - $51

    For $1460CDN. Not bad at all. Didn't think Canadian could put up such a good deal :tongue: . Now did floppy drives get any faster from the early ones to now? I have multiple floppy drives from old comps, could I use those? I was thinking of putting that in my PIII600E and taking that out to put in this comp. Also is there any use for that Hercules Game Theatre thing? I don't have surround speakers or anything, just 2 sattelites and a subwoofer.

    Oh, one last thing. Is it really worth it to build a new comp after the P4 1.4GHz? I mean will I really see that much of a difference? And is it worth it or should I wait till Hammer/Prescott? Opinions appreciated. If I get this now, I'll probably not be able to buy a new comp when Prescott/Hammer comes out. I'll have to wait several more years til this one becomes obsolete.

    Thanks for all the help guys.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  16. Sorry I was away man, I was working!
    I see AMD_Man has rejoiced the Canadians!
    You will definitly see speed glow upwards if you OC it to 2.4GHZ, with the video card, or just keep the Radeon 8500!
    Also, my MAIN recommendation, is to trade-in the P4 system. You get some rebate for that!

    Well for RB Computing(they ship to Canada and US), my favorite place, their quote system does not use Intel CPUs even if they sell them (they're very AMD oriented)
    <A HREF="http://www.shoprbc.com" target="_new">http://www.shoprbc.com</A> to check personally. I am surprised they didn't have good Abit mobos though....

    I could help you more if it was an AMD system from them though, but then, I'd recommend AMD_Man's place.

    --
    :smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
  17. Quote:

    was wondering if the Asus P4S533 is worth the $20 over the ABIT BD7.


    The P4S533 is a bit faster than the BD7 per clock but the BD7 locks the PCI/AGP bus so you can probably get to well over 2.4GHz.

    Quote:

    Also is the PC-2700 DDR RAM Samsung? How do you know? It doesn't say anything...


    Because I bought some. I was surprised it was Samsung RAM! The PCB is not genuine Samsung, it's PowMem, but the RAM chips are the exact same chips that the best true Samsung RAM uses. User Reviews at NCIX say that this RAM overclocks almost as well (if not equally well) to Samsung RAM with a Samsung PCB.

    Quote:

    Antec PLUS660 w/ 330W PSU - $162
    ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4400 - $359
    Creative Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 - $51


    I wouldn't recommend that you spend so much on a case. You really don't need a fancy case, just a strong Power supply. I'd recommend you get a cheap $45 generic case, and a good Antec or Enermax PSU.

    Also, I bought a SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 a while ago and I absolutely hated it. The quality is nowhere near the Hercules GameTheat

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  18. Quote:

    was wondering if the Asus P4S533 is worth the $20 over the ABIT BD7.

    The P4S533 is a bit faster than the BD7 per clock but the BD7 locks the PCI/AGP bus so you can probably get to well over 2.4GHz.

    Quote:

    Also is the PC-2700 DDR RAM Samsung? How do you know? It doesn't say anything...

    Because I bought some. I was surprised it was Samsung RAM! The PCB is not genuine Samsung, it's PowMem, but the RAM chips are the exact same chips that the best true Samsung RAM uses. User Reviews at NCIX say that this RAM overclocks almost as well (if not equally well) to Samsung RAM with a Samsung PCB.

    Quote:

    Antec PLUS660 w/ 330W PSU - $162
    ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4400 - $359
    Creative Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 - $51

    I wouldn't recommend that you spend so much on a case. You really don't need a fancy case, just a strong Power supply. I'd recommend you get a cheap $45 generic case, and a good Antec or Enermax PSU.

    Also, I bought a SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 a while ago and I absolutely hated it. The quality is nowhere near the Hercules GameTheater XP, which doesn't cost <i>that</i> much more. Besides, with the GameTheater XP, you have lots of room to grow in the future in terms of your PC sound system. The GameTheater XP includes a Breakout box that has a lot of extras includes more USB ports, optical out, etc. Read <A HREF="http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/reviews/GameTheaterXP/gtxp.html" target="_new">this</A> review and you'll be amazed.

    Quote:

    Now did floppy drives get any faster from the early ones to now? I have multiple floppy drives from old comps, could I use those?

    That depends. The $18 Panasonic Floppy Drive is no faster but the LS-120 Super Disk Drive for $54 not only supports 120MB Floppy Disks, but it also reads and writes regular floppy disks quite a bit faster, without slowing down the entire system.

    Quote:

    Oh, one last thing. Is it really worth it to build a new comp after the P4 1.4GHz? I mean will I really see that much of a difference? And is it worth it or should I wait till Hammer/Prescott? Opinions appreciated. If I get this now, I'll probably not be able to buy a new comp when Prescott/Hammer comes out. I'll have to wait several more years til this one becomes obsolete.

    I would think its worth it. The system you are building is quite similar to the one I'm building. At 2.4GHz or more with a GF4 TI4400, you'll be able to run any program and play game for at least a couple of years. Doom3 might challenge the GF4 Ti4400 somewhat, however. You might not want to get a graphics card right away and wait for the new ATI and nVidia cards coming in late summer.

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  19. Quote:
    Sorry I was away man, I was working!

    WORKING???!!! Are you outta your mind? j/k. Thanks for the site. I'll check it out. As for trade-ins. First I have a Dell, so I don't think that would work. Second, I kinda wanted this comp so that I could have LAN games with/against my dad. (He's a heavy gamer. That's why I'll be getting some funding for this comp)

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  20. Quote:
    Because I bought some. I was surprised it was Samsung RAM! The PCB is not genuine Samsung, it's PowMem, but the RAM chips are the exact same chips that the best true Samsung RAM uses. User Reviews at NCIX say that this RAM overclocks almost as well (if not equally well) to Samsung RAM with a Samsung PCB.

    Well I wouldn't really be overclocking it would I anyways? If I run the FSB at 133MHz, the memory still shouldn't be straining itself anyways, since it *can* run at 166MHz DP right? I think I'd just go to 133MHz FSB, cause I'm just an amateur overclocker, the only thing I've overclocked are video cards.

    Quote:
    I wouldn't recommend that you spend so much on a case. You really don't need a fancy case, just a strong Power supply. I'd recommend you get a cheap $45 generic case, and a good Antec or Enermax PSU.

    Well I looked at Canada Comuters and I have no clue which generic case is good. Also would I need a Enermax 430W Dual Fan for $99 or is this: Enermax 350W Dual Fan for $65 good enough? I just don't want to run the risk of not having enough power...

    Quote:
    Also, I bought a SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 a while ago and I absolutely hated it. The quality is nowhere near the Hercules GameTheater XP, which doesn't cost that much more. Besides, with the GameTheater XP, you have lots of room to grow in the future in terms of your PC sound system. The GameTheater XP includes a Breakout box that has a lot of extras includes more USB ports, optical out, etc. Read this review and you'll be amazed.

    Hmmm.... looks very nice. I'll see what I can do about that. I mean I don't have a super-duper sound system, so I don't really know if I need that kinda thing, but I'll see anyways.

    Quote:
    I would think its worth it. The system you are building is quite similar to the one I'm building. At 2.4GHz or more with a GF4 TI4400, you'll be able to run any program and play game for at least a couple of years. Doom3 might challenge the GF4 Ti4400 somewhat, however. You might not want to get a graphics card right away and wait for the new ATI and nVidia cards coming in late summer.

    Yeah that's probably what I'll do. If anything I'll wait till R300/RV250 come out and then I'll see. (I heard that R300/RV250 will be officially launched July 17th?) Isn't the nVidia's cards gonna be delayed til at least this winter if not next year? I'll see if I can wait that long.

    Quote:
    The P4S533 is a bit faster than the BD7 per clock but the BD7 locks the PCI/AGP bus so you can probably get to well over 2.4GHz.

    Now thinking about it, I was wondering if a i845E chipset would be better. I read some reviews and it looks like it has *unofficial* support for PC2700. Also it has USB 2.0, which might be useful for downloading pictures from out digital camera. Do you know of any high quality i845E mobos? Preferably with the ability to lock the PCI slots at 33MHz. From the reviews, it sounds like this factor may be quite important in overclocking. Also could I just run the CPU at the 133MHz FSB setting these mobos would have for the NW Bs? Thanks again.

    Oh if anything, I'll probably buy the parts end of July/early August. Hopefully by then, prices will have dropped a little by then. Hmmmm... we (family) may have a vaction in Toronto this summer depending. If I do go, I'll check it out at the store. We're not sure yet, cause we'd be driving and it takes so friggin long to get to Toronto from PEI.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  21. Quote:

    Well I wouldn't really be overclocking it would I anyways? If I run the FSB at 133MHz, the memory still shouldn't be straining itself anyways, since it *can* run at 166MHz DP right? I think I'd just go to 133MHz FSB, cause I'm just an amateur overclocker, the only thing I've overclocked are video cards.

    Yup, you can probably get it to 400MHz relatively easily too.

    Quote:

    Well I looked at Canada Comuters and I have no clue which generic case is good. Also would I need a Enermax 430W Dual Fan for $99 or is this: Enermax 350W Dual Fan for $65 good enough? I just don't want to run the risk of not having enough power...

    See <A HREF="http://www.canadacomputers.com/graphics/cases/9301_300W_MT.jpg" target="_new">this</A>. It's only $45 at Canada Computers. It comes with a generic PSU that's garbage, so I highly recommend you get a decent PSU. I have a couple at home and I've built computers for friends with it. It looks relatively decent and it isn't weak like the other el cheapo cases. A 350W will probably be good enough. The P4 uses less power than the Athlon XP anyway.

    Quote:

    Hmmm.... looks very nice. I'll see what I can do about that. I mean I don't have a super-duper sound system, so I don't really know if I need that kinda thing, but I'll see anyways.

    Then get yourself the Audigy OEM at least. It's only $89 and it includes a Firewire port. The SoundBlaster Live! just sucks, IMO (at least by today's standards).

    Quote:

    Yeah that's probably what I'll do. If anything I'll wait till R300/RV250 come out and then I'll see. (I heard that R300/RV250 will be officially launched July 17th?) Isn't the nVidia's cards gonna be delayed til at least this winter if not next year? I'll see if I can wait that long.

    Yeah, I heard about the July 17 launch, although, I'm not sure if its both the RV250 and the R300 or just the RV250. I've also heard that the nVidia card might be delayed. Of course, that just sounds like a rumour to me.

    Quote:


    Now thinking about it, I was wondering if a i845E chipset would be better. I read some reviews and it looks like it has *unofficial* support for PC2700. Also it has USB 2.0, which might be useful for downloading pictures from out digital camera. Do you know of any high quality i845E mobos? Preferably with the ability to lock the PCI slots at 33MHz. From the reviews, it sounds like this factor may be quite important in overclocking. Also could I just run the CPU at the 133MHz FSB setting these mobos would have for the NW Bs? Thanks again.

    Hmm, in my opinon, the best of the best i845E board is the Abit IT7 MAX. That thing is absolutely amazing! You won't have to get a network card, and you probably won't need a separate sound card (I've heard the built in sound is quite good and will satisfy most people except the hardcore audiophiles). However, the board is on the pricey side at $258. However, when you deduct the price of the sound card and network card, it will be about the same.

    Quote:

    Oh if anything, I'll probably buy the parts end of July/early August. Hopefully by then, prices will have dropped a little by then. Hmmmm... we (family) may have a vaction in Toronto this summer depending. If I do go, I'll check it out at the store. We're not sure yet, cause we'd be driving and it takes so friggin long to get to Toronto from PEI.

    Canada Computers ships to anywhere in Canada. See <A HREF="http://www.canadacomputers.com/mail.html" target="_new">here</A>.

    I'm not sure how much they'll charge you for shipping and handling, however.


    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  22. Quote:
    In reply to:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Because I bought some. I was surprised it was Samsung RAM! The PCB is not genuine Samsung, it's PowMem, but the RAM chips are the exact same chips that the best true Samsung RAM uses. User Reviews at NCIX say that this RAM overclocks almost as well (if not equally well) to Samsung RAM with a Samsung PCB.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well I wouldn't really be overclocking it would I anyways? If I run the FSB at 133MHz, the memory still shouldn't be straining itself anyways, since it *can* run at 166MHz DP right? I think I'd just go to 133MHz FSB, cause I'm just an amateur overclocker, the only thing I've overclocked are video cards.

    i wouldn't be playing clownish (hehe) but the DDR Corsair XMS3200 CAS2.5@200Mhz is the best memory i could recommend.

    Quote:
    In reply to:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I wouldn't recommend that you spend so much on a case. You really don't need a fancy case, just a strong Power supply. I'd recommend you get a cheap $45 generic case, and a good Antec or Enermax PSU.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Well I looked at Canada Comuters and I have no clue which generic case is good. Also would I need a Enermax 430W Dual Fan for $99 or is this: Enermax 350W Dual Fan for $65 good enough? I just don't want to run the risk of not having enough power...

    with a $30 difference, do you think an Enermax 430W Dual Fan is not a best buying? (more room for upgrading)

    Quote:
    In reply to:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Also, I bought a SoundBlaster Live! 5.1 a while ago and I absolutely hated it. The quality is nowhere near the Hercules GameTheater XP, which doesn't cost that much more. Besides, with the GameTheater XP, you have lots of room to grow in the future in terms of your PC sound system. The GameTheater XP includes a Breakout box that has a lot of extras includes more USB ports, optical out, etc. Read this review and you'll be amazed.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hmmm.... looks very nice. I'll see what I can do about that. I mean I don't have a super-duper sound system, so I don't really know if I need that kinda thing, but I'll see anyways.

    another time, i reckon this card but you have also the possibility to go to the Audigy. must i recall that Creative has 30 years of experience? (& yes, Crashman, you can flames that again if you want to...)

    Quote:
    In reply to:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The P4S533 is a bit faster than the BD7 per clock but the BD7 locks the PCI/AGP bus so you can probably get to well over 2.4GHz.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now thinking about it, I was wondering if a i845E chipset would be better. I read some reviews and it looks like it has *unofficial* support for PC2700. Also it has USB 2.0, which might be useful for downloading pictures from out digital camera. Do you know of any high quality i845E mobos? Preferably with the ability to lock the PCI slots at 33MHz. From the reviews, it sounds like this factor may be quite important in overclocking. Also could I just run the CPU at the 133MHz FSB setting these mobos would have for the NW Bs? Thanks again.

    Oh if anything, I'll probably buy the parts end of July/early August. Hopefully by then, prices will have dropped a little by then. Hmmmm... we (family) may have a vaction in Toronto this summer depending. If I do go, I'll check it out at the store. We're not sure yet, cause we'd be driving and it takes so friggin long to get to Toronto from PEI.

    the TH7 from abit, think about it as well.


    <i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
  23. Quote:
    Hmm, in my opinon, the best of the best i845E board is the Abit IT7 MAX. That thing is absolutely amazing! You won't have to get a network card, and you probably won't need a separate sound card (I've heard the built in sound is quite good and will satisfy most people except the hardcore audiophiles). However, the board is on the pricey side at $258. However, when you deduct the price of the sound card and network card, it will be about the same.


    So is that ABIT IT7 MAX the same as the IT7? I looked around for reviews and there seems to be no difference between the IT7 MAX and the plain IT7. Does the MAX just have some extra features like RAID or something? Cause if that's it, I'll go for the IT7. I don't mind spending the money since I got $1800-2000 for this system. As long as it's a nice quality mobo.

    Also, can the IT7 run the memory at 166MHz DP without running the FSB there? I've seen reviews that show that the IT7 can set the speed for the RAM asyncronous to the FSB. Is this true?

    Quote:
    Then get yourself the Audigy OEM at least. It's only $89 and it includes a Firewire port. The SoundBlaster Live! just sucks, IMO (at least by today's standards).


    I have 2 SB Live! 5.1 in my Dell systems and since I have never used any other sound card, I'm not sure what the difference is. I think I'll probably get the IT7 and then no sound card for now. Futureshop sells some high quality sound cards, although I don't think I'll be really needing it. I don't card for high quality sound that much. As long as it's pretty good.

    Quote:
    Yeah, I heard about the July 17 launch, although, I'm not sure if its both the RV250 and the R300 or just the RV250. I've also heard that the nVidia card might be delayed. Of course, that just sounds like a rumour to me.


    If anything, I'll probably end up getting either a RV250 or Ti4400 depending on how the RV250 does. Hopefully it'll be under $200USD. I'm really starting to like ATi cards. The RadeonAIW I had probably was just a special bad case.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Chuck232 on 06/28/02 12:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  24. Quote:
    i wouldn't be playing clownish (hehe) but the DDR Corsair XMS3000 CAS2 is the best memory i could recommend.

    I know it's good memory, but I'm not really into extreme overclocking, just trying to get a good deal for the money.

    Quote:
    with a $30 difference, do you think an Enermax 430W Dual Fan is not a best buying? (more room for upgrading)

    Well I might look into that, although I don't know if I really need it. I'll only have a video card, HDD, CPU, 19" monitor, DVD-ROM, possibly a CD-RW, and possibly a sound card. I don't think I'll need that much power. Do you? Thanks for the help Labdog. See you're not so ba at all.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  25. Quote:

    So is that ABIT IT7 MAX the same as the IT7? I looked around for reviews and there seems to be no difference between the IT7 MAX and the plain IT7. Does the MAX just have some extra features like RAID or something? Cause if that's it, I'll go for the IT7. I don't mind spending the money since I got $1800-2000 for this system. As long as it's a nice quality mobo.

    Also, can the IT7 run the memory at 166MHz DP without running the FSB there? I've seen reviews that show that the IT7 can set the speed for the RAM asyncronous to the FSB. Is this true?


    The IT7 is the IT7 MAX. There is however an IT7E without RAID or Firewire but I don't know where to get that in Canada.

    Quote:

    Also, can the IT7 run the memory at 166MHz DP without running the FSB there? I've seen reviews that show that the IT7 can set the speed for the RAM asyncronous to the FSB. Is this true?

    Yup, it does support DDR333+ without overclocking, albeit, unofficially.

    Quote:


    I have 2 SB Live! 5.1 in my Dell systems and since I have never used any other sound card, I'm not sure what the difference is. I think I'll probably get the IT7 and then no sound card for now. Futureshop sells some high quality sound cards, although I don't think I'll be really needing it. I don't card for high quality sound that much. As long as it's pretty good.

    Yup, the onboard sound sounds about as good as the Live!, if not a bit better. If you think the Live sounds ok, then you'll certainly be happy with the IT7's onboard sound.

    Quote:

    If anything, I'll probably end up getting either a RV250 or Ti4400 depending on how the RV250 does. Hopefully it'll be under $200USD. I'm really starting to like ATi cards. The RadeonAIW I had probably was just a special bad case.

    ATI promised enhanced support and quality with the R8500 and for the most part, they delivered what they promised.


    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  26. OK, I did some more searching and system putting together and this is what I got:

    P4 1.8A Retail - $275
    512MB PC-2700 DDR333 - $179
    ABIT IT7 - $258
    Western Digital 80GB w/ 8MB cache - $196
    Pioneer 16X Tray Load - $69
    9301K w/ 300W PSU - $45
    Enermax 350W Dual Fan - $65
    ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4400 128MB - $359 (I'll either get this or a RV250)

    So comes out to ~$1446 plus taxes of say 15% (I don't know the Ontario tax rate) would equal ~$1663CDN. I could pretty easily afford that as long as I didn't screw it up putting it together...

    Quote:
    The IT7 is the IT7 MAX. There is however an IT7E without RAID or Firewire but I don't know where to get that in Canada

    No no, that's fine. The Firewire will come in handy. As for the RAID, I don't even know what itis except that it's like a fast IDE connection?

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  27. Anyone feel like commenting?

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  28. Quote:

    OK, I did some more searching and system putting together and this is what I got:

    P4 1.8A Retail - $275
    512MB PC-2700 DDR333 - $179
    ABIT IT7 - $258
    Western Digital 80GB w/ 8MB cache - $196
    Pioneer 16X Tray Load - $69
    9301K w/ 300W PSU - $45
    Enermax 350W Dual Fan - $65
    ABIT Siluro GeForce4 Ti 4400 128MB - $359 (I'll either get this or a RV250)

    So comes out to ~$1446 plus taxes of say 15% (I don't know the Ontario tax rate) would equal ~$1663CDN. I could pretty easily afford that as long as I didn't screw it up putting it together...

    It looks great and it's rather surprisingly cheap for such a powerful system. It might get up to 2.7GHz under stock cooling. With a 150MHz FSB, you'll be running your RAM at 400MHz, which is quite nice. The AGP/PCI bus will be locked at their default speeds.


    Yes, in Ontario, you pay a whopping 15% tax. It pisses me off! :mad:

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  29. Hey, guess what it is on PEI? 17.7%! YES I love it.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  30. Quote:
    Hey, guess what it is on PEI? 17.7%! YES I love it.

    17.7%? That has to be the highest in the country! :eek: Man, they're eating up your money! I thought Ontario was high, but PEI is just <b>unbelievable</b>. :eek:

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  31. Actually I am surprised PEI has different tax rates! What I know is that all provinces EXCEPT Alberta pay 15% tax, PST GST. In Alberta my dad told me it's a "whopping" 7%! Now that's pretty neat indeed, though I guess it's cuz there are mostly plains for agricultural needs as well as oil(pétrole)...

    But yeah for Chuck, you got a nice system there! I just wonder if the DDR isn't limiting it, just like the 3GHZ DDR system on THG, when compared to a 2.6GHZ RDRAM system! In any case, if I was offered such a P4 system, with the ability guaranteed to reach 2.4GHZ or above, I'd buy it anyday over a current AMD system. But I'm happy with my AXP 1600+, and am suddenly feeling like trying for the first a small OC to say, XP1800 speeds... I wonder if that'll be hard...

    And yeah Labdog, had you been this way before, people like FatBurger might have felt a bit less annoyed enough to leave!

    Also a lot of people come here, stating their budget, but the problem is, we don't know if this is WITH tax or not! Always specify if the budget you have (not directed to Chuck) includes tax or not, because otherwise we will design one on the limit and you can't even afford it with tax!

    --
    :smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
  32. Quote:

    But yeah for Chuck, you got a nice system there! I just wonder if the DDR isn't limiting it, just like the 3GHZ DDR system on THG, when compared to a 2.6GHZ RDRAM system!

    Not really, he's using DDR333 (and he'll probably overclock it even higher) not DDR266. At those high speeds, it will outperform PC800 but it will be a bit under PC1066 performance.


    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  33. Quote:
    17.7%? That has to be the highest in the country!

    Yup I believe it is. We first pay 7% GST then anthoer 10% PST on top of that, so it comes out to 17.7%.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  34. Quote:
    I'll only have a video card, HDD, CPU, 19" monitor, DVD-ROM, possibly a CD-RW, and possibly a sound card. I don't think I'll need that much power.

    for now, you are right, an Enermax 350 watts is fine for your configuration. but think in a near futur (round 6 months). maybe you will buy another hard disk to switch to raid, an SCSI card with some SCSI peripherals, a TV-tuner card, some USB peripherals, an USB ADSL modem, an USB scanner, and and .... etc. those $30 might appear less rentable for a $100 PSU?

    in other hand you will have the possibility to buy another PSU & to plug it on the previous one using a parallel PSU mode. :smile:

    last comment: i think you can use an Enermax PSU for a long time without any degradation. thus it is a long term investment. (same as a monitor)


    <i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
  35. Quote:
    But yeah for Chuck, you got a nice system there! I just wonder if the DDR isn't limiting it, just like the 3GHZ DDR system on THG, when compared to a 2.6GHZ RDRAM system!

    The reason I chose the DDR333 system was cause it seemed to outperform PC800 RDRAM. Plus RDRAM is still a bit more expensive than PC2700, 512MB of PC2700 is $179 and 521MB of PC800 RDRAM is $298. I didn't think that even when it was overclocked to PC1066 it would be worth the extra ~$120, so the DDR RAM it is. Also, the newer i845E mobos seemed very enticing cause they have IEEE1394 and USB 2.0. That's why I wanted to know for sure whether I could set the RAM speed asyncronous to the FSB. Seems like with the ABIT IT7 you can and it comes with great features. (IEEE1394, USB 2.0, RAID, on-board LAN and sound)

    Quote:
    Also a lot of people come here, stating their budget, but the problem is, we don't know if this is WITH tax or not!

    Yeah I kinda forgot about that. I can shell out about $2000 overall, so including taxes. But still, the cheaper the better.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  36. Quote:
    for now, you are right, an Enermax 350 watts is fine for your configuration. but think in a near futur (round 6 months). maybe you will buy another hard disk to switch to raid, an SCSI card with some SCSI peripherals, a TV-tuner card, some USB peripherals, an USB ADSL modem, an USB scanner, and and .... etc. those $30 might appear less rentable for a $100 PSU?

    Actually while thinking about this, I think I'll go with 430W Enermax. Cause this is what I have all on a 250W PSU right now:

    19" Trinitron
    scanner
    printer
    keyboard/mouse
    I'll need a TV-Tuner (cause i have a R8500LE instead of the Radeon AIW)
    40GB HDD
    CD-ROM

    I guess $30 more isn't that much anyways. Thanks for the great tip. Yeah, I guess PSU technology won't become obsolete really. Thanks again!

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  37. I looked around again and I found this. The i845G seems to have a much superiour memory controller compared to the i845E. The i845G actually "unofficially" supports DDR333. Even here at Tom's, the review said that i845G is much superiour to i845E. I was wondering if maybe that would be a better way to go? I'm definitely not gonna use the integrated graphics, but if the memory controller is so much better, maybe it's worth the couple extra bucks? What do you guys think? Thanks for the help by the way!

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  38. trolling is no more tolerated. ended.


    <i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
  39. I just realized something. Won't I need some case fans? Does that generic case come with any intake/outtake fans? What are some good fans? I'd prefer it be not too loud. And how many fans would I need?

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  40. So are you saying you're gonna stop trolling/spamming? We'll all really appreciate that. Sometimes it's not trolling that you do. It's just that you're french and sometimes your english is incomprehensible.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  41. Quote:



    I looked around again and I found this. The i845G seems to have a much superiour memory controller compared to the i845E. The i845G actually "unofficially" supports DDR333. Even here at Tom's, the review said that i845G is much superiour to i845E. I was wondering if maybe that would be a better way to go? I'm definitely not gonna use the integrated graphics, but if the memory controller is so much better, maybe it's worth the couple extra bucks? What do you guys think? Thanks for the help by the way!

    Well, first of all, Tom's Hardware didn't review any actual boards (just the review boards) so I'd take their opinion with a grain of salt. The IT7 MAX is better than any 845G in my opinion. Check out <A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MjkzLDE=" target="_new">this</A> review and you'll be absolutely amazed.


    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  42. Quote:


    19" Trinitron
    scanner
    printer
    keyboard/mouse
    I'll need a TV-Tuner (cause i have a R8500LE instead of the Radeon AIW)
    40GB HDD
    CD-ROM

    Don't forget that the 19" monitor doesn't use power from the PSU. The printer doesn't either. The scanner probably doesn't (unless you have one of Canon's new USB scanner that have no power adapter). Anyway, just get the 430W PSU if you're more comforable with it. I was just trying to suggest the cheapest good-quality components.

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  43. Quote:

    I just realized something. Won't I need some case fans? Does that generic case come with any intake/outtake fans? What are some good fans? I'd prefer it be not too loud. And how many fans would I need?

    If you're overclocking, you'll want two case fans, but to reduce noise, you'll want low-speed ones. The $12 Sunon fans at Canada Computers are very quiet (I have two of them).

    :wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
  44. Quote:
    Check out this review and you'll be absolutely amazed.

    LOL!! I was just reading it as you suggested I read it. Yeah really looks good. Are those tests run at DDR333 or higher/lower?

    Also do I need a lot of case fans for good ventilation? OR how many do I need? And does that generic case come with any fans at all?

    As for the PSU, I dunno. I'll see I mean I'm running that stuff on a 250W PSU right now. I'm hoping I'll get by with a 350W PSU, but I might pick up the 430W just in case.

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  45. Is that the Y.S. Tech 25mm Case Fan? I didn't find a Sunon one. Hmmm. I'm gonna go practice th piano (argh....) so I'll probably be back later. Thanks for all your help. It's greatly appreciated!!

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  46. Ho hum... I'm back!! So you have any comments on the fans?

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  47. I think I chose my course of action. Since I'm not a hardcore gamer or anything, I think my P4 1.4GHz is gonna have to do for now. I mean 7200 3DMarks is nothing really to laugh at. I only really play CivIII and some Rogue Spear. Nothing uses the CPU/GPU right now. I'm gonna try and get my hands on some more games, but I'll manage even if I have to run them at a lower resolution or with AA/AF. I'll try and hold out till at least Hammer if not Prescott. They're gonna be really great products hopefully. I just think that the P4 and AXP cores are getting old and they are due for a major upgrade. I don't want to buy something now and have it become obsolete so soon afterwards and not be able to upgrade further.

    I'd say for anyone, as you can see from my experience with configuring a P4 system, you can have great performance (IF you overclock) for not that much at all. I was really surprised. When I made a similar AXP system with a XP1700+, it was only $120CDN cheaper. Taken that you overclock your P4 to 2.4GHz or more, you'd have a XP2200+ equivalent. That system would cost you much more than a P4 system. Even though the overclocking feature may not conform to a lot of people, it really shows that Intel isn't in much trouble at all.

    I'm sorry for taking the time of all the people that have helped me here. I really appreciate it. This has been a great learning experience. Although I won't get a new system, the knowledge was probably worth it anyways. Also from this thread, I think we showed people like Fatburger don't have to leave. It sill shows that a person can still get very good and useful information form people that were considered "spammers" or "trolls". Corsair3200 seems to have taken a change for the good, and I hope a lot of other people will follow his lead. In Corsair's case, I think he was just misunderstood. He is French after all and his English may just be a bit rusty.

    I'll try and hold out til next year with my system and I'll see what will happen then. Hopefully I'll be able to get a Prescott 4GHz with Dual Channel DDR400 or a Hammer 4000+ with the "revolutionary" HyperTransport.. hehe. I'm hoping for that. Well thanks again!!

    P.S. Does anyone know any good FPS games? I'm gonna try to acutally strain my rig a bit. :wink:

    :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
  48. If you are using WinXP and feel it is sluggish, go for 512MB RAM, and the difference is almost miraculous. Trust me when I say it, 512MB RAM, can either make exiting games lightning fast, or even make user switching as well. It can reduce load times from significantly to somewhat 10% better, it improves some game performance, removes the early stutter in many FPS games such as Jedi Knigth II, and thus I can play with NO lag.

    And yes, I am amazed how you were needing a new system when 7200 3dMarks is actually today's needed score to play games at their best! I feel my Ti200 weakening but I can always OC it, though I am satisfied with current game performance, including NeverWinter Nights'. Besides, when you think of it, the GF3 Ti200, is an underclocked GF3, and the GF3 was out a year ago in April, so that means this underclocked card is withstanding even one year later games, very well. Thank god the DX8 optimizations are working, games with Pixel Shading for water effects have become more frequent and it's a beauty to look at (Nature test-> Morrowind, etc...).

    BTW, if it's true, the Tbreds ARE improving in OCing, and so I would say that it is not far from impossible, to actually save money and get an XP1700 0.13m, and soon be able to OC to XP2400 with aircooling with fans like the Alpha PAL, Volcano 7+, Swiftech... So in the end, if Tbred HAS improved since the beginning, I would hold off on the extra money churned on the P4, but like most would do, be aware of the cooling first, THEN the OCing. The XP system would need a tad more care to OC, and a thermal protection mobo from AMD's, is recommended for that. But I am highly confident even such OCs for Tbreds, will not result in 60ºC temps after OCing.

    As for Labdog, indeed I wish he would be that way more often, despite seeing some english problems, he uses many english words that are used less frequently, more literature-style too, so he does have a good vocabulary! Please keep it up corsair, maybe FatBurger would look back at this forum and see us all together happy and return!

    Oh and for FPS games, Jedi Knight II is nothing short of awesome, MOHAA is still quite nice, there are a slew of new ones coming soon, including the highly anticipated UT 2003. As for Doom III, after having seen the gameplay movie several times (the one leaked out from a camera filmer at E3), I can safely assure you, I am not gonna even DARE to play it at night, with the door closed, all lights off, and sound at 5.1!!!

    But DOOM III ain't out till about December 2003, so there is a LONG time before it is there, and it'll allow us to be prepared rather than get a game where a card suitable to play will come out a year after! In this case, it's almost a year earlier, thanks to R300 by Carmack's recommendations, or NV30.

    --
    :smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/28/02 10:54 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  49. what about an amd system?
    cheaper than an intel, admitedly not as fast as the intels (the northwood cores etc.. and esp the ones that have a 133fsb) but they are great value for money and they work well.
    i can say i have no problems with the setup i have, apart from choosing a darn graphics card to finish off the system.. im thinking of waiting till about a month and seeing whats about then.. just a thought..
    anyway, see what you could get for a $1000 with amd and see what you could get for $1000 intel, see which one performs better or something.. maybe just upgrade cpu, mobo and memory.. always makes a good difference.. you got a great graphics card.. i wouldnt upgrade that, unless you want me to have that one!!
    i dont really know anything much other than that.. its up to you which you prefer, amd or intel.. its up to you..

    if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
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