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Vicius conspiracy about AMD over heated

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June 27, 2002 7:56:35 PM

I heard something about AMD processors heating up and destroying themselfs after a few months,
and also if their fan stops working.
can you guys please tell me it ain't so so I can go back in beat up the guy who told me this??

~ where is my translocator? ~
June 27, 2002 8:17:42 PM

They could eventualy die if the fan stops working, but they won't do it without something going wrong with the heatsink, assuming it is installed properly.

The XPs on a compatable motherboard will force the system to shut down instead, but those motherboards are finaly hitting the streets just now.

English is phun.
June 27, 2002 8:48:04 PM

I still don't get why AMD didn't just put the shut-off logic on the die along with the pretty new thermosistor (or however that's spelled). It couldn't possibly take up <i>that</i> much die space...

Oh well. Maybe on Opteron...

<<cool transformer's sound effect>>

I am Opteron, bastard son of Megatron and Optimus-Prime. I'm confused and pissed off. Feel my wrath!

<pre>P.S. No more trips to the vending machine for me.
I think I've had enough <b><font color=red>c</font color=red><font color=yellow>a</font color=yellow><font color=green>n</font color=green><font color=blue>d</font color=blue><font color=purple>y</font color=purple></b> for one day...</pre><p>

Tech support said take a screen shot.
Putting it down with my .22 was the humane thing to do.
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June 27, 2002 9:39:52 PM

Quote:
I heard something about AMD processors heating up and destroying themselfs after a few months,
and also if their fan stops working.
can you guys please tell me it ain't so so I can go back in beat up the guy who told me this??

this is neither a rumour nor a consipiracy, this all true, the AMD Athlon is a piece of shiiiyut with no thermal protection at all.

if you see your friend again you need to pay him a small fee just so he can kick your teeth in.


"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 27, 2002 10:32:32 PM

Quote:
I heard something about AMD processors heating up and destroying themselfs after a few months,
and also if their fan stops working.

they heat up a bit but they don't destroy themselfs after few months, a cooling issue must appear before.
moreover latest motherboards supply a COP (CPU Overheating Protection) based on a thermal diode (introduced on the socket itself) which protects efficiently AMD cpus against an eventual overheating.

Quote:
can you guys please tell me it ain't so so I can go back in beat up the guy who told me this??

yes, you can go back.


<i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
June 27, 2002 11:29:38 PM

Big shock... Melty responded to this thread.

AMD chips I have owned:

k6-2 500mhz... never overheated/self-destructed
900mhz t-bird ...no probs
1 gig t-bird... no probs
1.2 gig t-bird.. still no probs

Been running that 1.2 for a while now. No locks, freezes or heat issues. Kick your friend in the head. And while your kicking him, do it one more time for all people like meltdown :) 

Benchmarks are like sex, everybody loves doing it, everybody thinks they are good at it.
June 28, 2002 2:28:33 AM

Well here's the thing, it CAN burn. Any chip can. Just disable the P4's thermal defense(or tell it to throttle less than 10% lower than current clock speed), and remove the Heat Spreader and watch it squirm.

Current AMD protection seems to work, but the mobo manus are not following the exact blueprint and thus is not even 90% functional.

BTW chances of overheats followed by CPU destruction are as likely as you driving and suddenly the steering wheel comes out of its hole and you find out you're holding it!!!

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/27/02 10:29 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 28, 2002 3:53:19 AM

Many AMD cpu's have self destructed in the socket due to lack of thermal protection.

Many more have died from crushed core. Even the slightest chip can render a AMD cpu useless.

AMD expects the motherboard maker to protect the CPU with thermal diaode sensors that do not work. The best/most advanced protection from Asus labeled as <A HREF="http://www.asusemag.com.tw/tech/ch5/ch5-1.htm" target="_new">"C.O.P"</A> "ASUS C.O.P (CPU Overheating Protection) Technology is specially designed for ASUS AMD CPU Platform to prevent accidental cooling malfunction to cause CPU's burning down". Yet this motherboard made history <A HREF="http://www.lostcircuits.com/cpu/fxp_2200/" target="_new">killing the first Tbred processor.</A>

The chances of anything happening to you are slim, just know they can happen and do. thats the least of your problems building/owning a AMD system.

You are limited to what your mind can perceive.
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 28, 2002 5:44:33 AM

Quote:
Many more have died from crushed core. Even the slightest chip can render a AMD cpu useless.

would you like to expand this problem? i am not sure what i have understood about.



<i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
June 28, 2002 11:31:30 AM

intel fanboys will tell you how hot athlons get and that they are always in danger of spontaneously combusting. this is bulls**t and FUD. any amd processor which is installed correctly with the hsf will NOT overheat. problems only arise if the hsf is incorrectly mounted. the intel fud artists will also tell you how fragile amd cores are and how they crumble into dust oif you do more than sneeze on them. again this will only happen if care is not taken when mounting the hsf. amd are as stable and reliable as any intel proc.
as far as high temps go the general rule seemas to be "if its stable its ok" the proc wont damage itself by running too hot. it wont melt or catch fire and it wont set your house on fire like one intel zealot claimed happened to him.
amdmeltdown and fugger are both trolls and will always give you a load of fud about amd... best advice is to ignore what they say most of the time. matisaro fatburger etc can usually be relied to give accurate advice....
in case your wondering i have an axp1800+ at the moment. before that i had a duron 850 @ 1GHz. before that i has an athlon 1.2 @ 1.4GHz. before that i had a k6III 450 and before that a k6II 400.

I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.
June 28, 2002 12:18:33 PM

Quote:
I heard something about AMD processors heating up and destroying themselfs after a few months,

This is FUD. AMD processors don't die on their own; they die only when something else goes wrong. Follow a few simple guidelines regarding airflow and cooling, and an AMD CPU will last for years. Overclock a CPU (either Intel or AMD), and you risk destroying it or reducing its lifespan--but that's a basic risk of overclocking.

Quote:
and also if their fan stops working.

Should the fan stop working on an Athlon HSF, the CPU can continue to run for about an hour using the passive heatsink (according to Asus). I know from experience that it can run for at least five minutes in this condition. It's a simple matter to enable software health monitoring (such as <A HREF="http://mbm.livewiredev.com" target="_new">Motherboard Monitor</A>) to shut the system down automatically in this case.

Motherboard manufacturers like Asus and Soltek have begun integrating this health monitoring onto the motherboard. This can often save the CPU even if the HSF falls of, so it's nice to have. However, a beta/buggy system BIOS might render such a feature inoperative.

As for core crushing, AthlonXP's are no more delicate than P3 Coppermines. A reasonably experienced/intelligent system builder should have no trouble installing a good HSF on either CPU.

<i>I can love my fellow man...but I'm damned if I'll love yours.</i>
Anonymous
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June 28, 2002 1:42:05 PM

Quote:
Should the fan stop working on an Athlon HSF, the CPU can continue to run for about an hour using the passive heatsink (according to Asus). I know from experience that it can run for at least five minutes in this condition.

sorry but from THG experience, the processor burned out after few seconds. there is a video somewhere on the THG site which shows this experience in real time.

Quote:
As for core crushing, AthlonXP's are no more delicate than P3 Coppermines. A reasonably experienced/intelligent system builder should have no trouble installing a good HSF on either CPU.

i have never seen a crunshed processor whatever its brand & its model since the 8086 processor model. (introduced by Intel in 1978, 24 years)



<i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
June 28, 2002 1:49:45 PM

Quote:
sorry but from THG experience, the processor burned out after few seconds. there is a video somewhere on the THG site which shows this experience in real time.


That video was of the heatsink being taken off (which is extremely rare, especially if you're building the system yourself). I'm talking about the fan failing, but the HSF remaining attached.

Quote:
i have never seen a crunshed processor whatever its brand & its model since the 8086 processor model.


The Thunderbirds were rather crush-prone, due to a somewhat brittle ceramic packaging. Nothing that couldn't be handled with good technique, but a problem for newbies. The AthlonXP solved this problem by using a more resilient fiberglass packaging.

<i>I can love my fellow man...but I'm damned if I'll love yours.</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kelledin on 06/28/02 08:57 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 28, 2002 1:54:09 PM

AMD had a test video where they removed the fan off a Palomino-based core and yes it resisted for 10 minutes playing Quake 3.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
June 28, 2002 2:59:24 PM

Quote:
sorry but from THG experience, the processor burned out after few seconds. there is a video somewhere on the THG site which shows this experience in real time.


From yanking the hsf off, not the fan dying duur.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 28, 2002 4:06:33 PM

Quote:
Oh well. Maybe on Opteron...

<<cool transformer's sound effect>>

I am Opteron, bastard son of Megatron and Optimus-Prime. I'm confused and pissed off. Feel my wrath!

I hear that's why it's taking so long to actualy produce the chip, they're integrating transforming technology into it. :wink:

I agree about the thermal diode part. What would be nice would be the ability to set it up in the Bios to either slow down or halt all togeather if it over heats, so you can get your choice, and the best of both worlds.


English is phun.
June 28, 2002 11:30:47 PM

Quote:
Big shock... Melty responded to this thread.

Lol ... like a fly to sh*t.

I'm on my third AMD processor myself. The first two are still going strong. Never had any problems with overheating. Go beat up your friend.

<i>Money talks. Mine always likes to say "goodbye." :smile: </i>
June 29, 2002 7:38:11 PM

Think about the people who take their cars in to have the oil changed because they can't do it themselves (not the ones to do it to save time), or the ones who never check the coolant, brake fluid, transmission fluid, etc. and then blame the car when something goes wrong. These are the people who then try to build a computer, f*ck up installing the heatsink and then blame the manufacturer of the CPU because it burned to a crisp.
June 29, 2002 8:04:19 PM

If those people make up a large percentage of buyers, then you keep those people happy. AMD AthlonXP Processors have no thermal protection......That is a true statement. A situation may occur where someone doesnt plug the heatsinks fan into the right connector, or leaves the connection loose perhaps. Yeah, it's the users fault it isnt plugged in, but who's responsible for protecting that chip? Apparently AMD thinks the MOBO makers are up to the task. BAM! The loophole! "Not our fault", AMD can say, "we drew up a rudimentary "on/off" switch schematic for mobo makers to follow". But guess what? The buck comes round full circle, cause I think I read the hammer has on chip protection. AH! A 21st century style implementation of thermal protection!

I sold my sig for $50.
June 29, 2002 9:26:51 PM

I have been running a retail XP 1900+ for over six months pretty much 24 hours a day without any problems.

"Just the facts ma'am"
a b à CPUs
June 29, 2002 10:43:08 PM

Only the latest boards and the XP processor have any thermal protection at all. All previous versions of the Athlon would self destruct. An XP on an older board will self destruct. Most people have never had a fan fail.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
June 29, 2002 10:46:31 PM

I think not, my old 1GHz Thunderbird would always shut-down when it reached 60C on my old SL-75KAV, after playing for hours! Nothing was wrong with it, after changing to a better cooler it ran perfectly for almost a year until I sold it!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
June 29, 2002 11:01:42 PM

processors I have owned

cyrix 166+ - no pb
k6 233 - no pb
k6/2 300 - no pb
TB 1.333 - no pb


<i>if you know you don't know, the way could be more easy ...</i>
a b à CPUs
June 29, 2002 11:10:49 PM

Don't believe me then, just look back about 6 months in the post and see how many burns you find! I wouldn't lie about these things. While some boards could use the onboard thermal sensor to shut down, others couldn't/didn't.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
June 29, 2002 11:34:45 PM

I have an athlon T-Bird 1Ghz. When it was bought I bought an OEM boxed version including heatsink and fan. Ofcourse this heatsink being cheap the processor runs at 64C at full load sometimes.

I have had it for over a year and a half, no problems, never crashes et al.
However it is not the first motherboard I have had, the first motherboard was all nice and shiny and new, in my hurry and excitement to put the new components in the case, I clip the heat sink on using a screwdriver, and I scratch the MB,
("oh sh*t").
I still assemble the computer as normal and switch it on, the heat sink fan did not work. So I go into the bios and watch the temperature hit 80C in 28 seconds, but strangely enough the computer shuts off when the temp hits 81C.

So everything is fine. Basically in non ACPI OS the bios monitors the temperature, in an ACPI OS and PNP OS the program in this case asus probe controls the computer shut down. Unfortunately it only shuts down as quickly as windows can. (Which is why my pc shuts down if the temp reaches 70C).

I have never in my three to four years of computing have had any trouble with AMD processors overheating, yes they run warmer than most but I have never chipped the core or had one die on me.

(No, I only destroy motherboards with screwdrivers :-P)

(I know the terms ACPI used wrongly there but it uses some sort on bios interface, I just can't remember!)

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Hoolio on 06/30/02 08:21 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 30, 2002 2:26:53 PM

You said only the new boards and XP´s would do this, you can hardly call a SL-75KAV and a Thunderbird new anymore... You're wrong, please stop lying and giving bad advice!
June 30, 2002 3:30:46 PM

Cruiser, you dont take pms so I hafta tell ya this publically.

I appreciate the support in the overheat thread, but crashman is serious respected here, insulting him will make you many enemies, just a word of advice.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
a b à CPUs
June 30, 2002 4:46:44 PM

Whether or not your system shuts down properly from the on-board thermal diod depends on too many things to call it reliable in the majority of cases. Things such as the material of the pin grid array (plastic spreads heat more slowly), WEIGHT of the cooler (more aluminum takes longer to heat up), distance of the diode (this was a big problem for some boards), heat output of the specific chip, overclocking (more heat), etc. Basically the onboard Diode will ALWAYS detect overheat slower than the on CPU diode. I don't consider the older design to be anywhere close to 100% reliable. Being an engineer has probably affected my perception, most engineers like to do things the right way whenever possible.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
June 30, 2002 5:03:57 PM

I dont think you understand about these thermal diodes. Temperature on my ASUS A7V133A is done by a small thermal diode on the motherboard, the overheat shutdown is done by software and as the temerature monitoring on these boards are not always accurite there is a chance you should not rely on it.


The new motherboards work by monitoring a thermal diode on the processor die and the board incorparates logic that shuts down the processor quickly. This is done by the hardware, I am not saying anyone is lying and yes I did have a close call where the software failed by but the PC locked up and so I switched it off when that happend.

However I would not be worried by the fact the AMD processors runs a little warm, I have never come across a case where the processor was destroyed, the THG video was a little extreme in that they remove the whole heatsink and not just the fan, this would mean the cpu loses all cooling capibility and destroys itself because of this. What a suprise a processor dies when you remove the heatsink, this is unlikely and a little OTT in my opinion.

I have never come across a processor where the heatsink has fallen off or become slightly loose.

Please look at this with a logical mind:
Chance of fan failing: 1 in 100???
Chance of Heatsink coming slightly loose: 1 in 1000?
Chance of heatsink falling right off: 1 in 100,000?

Right look at the possibilities above and think, is the athlon actually a bad choice?

Somehow when you say, there are video's all across the internet! You could be talking about the few sites that actually tried to take the heatsink off the CPU.

AMD still offer the best processors at the moment, at the best prices, they are not a cheap alternative, just because the processor maker decides that the small risk of thermal death warrants the logic to prevent it is actually not a bad thing.

You could compare it to the fact that just because a nation decides to install a nuclear defense system to neutralise the threat of nuclear war, does this mean the chance is really high? or is it sensible to protect just in case?

No, disrespect to anyone but this AMD overheating thing is a little OTT.......

Just my opinion, a long opinion (sorry) but still an opinion.
June 30, 2002 7:33:34 PM

its funny, every one says you have to know what your doing, intall the heatsink properly and you will be ok, i took the hsf of my slot athlon 800 and realised what a fool i had been when i installed it, i put the thermal diode in the middle of the cpu and mashed it down with the hsf, there was barely any contact between the hsf and the cpu, no grease or any thing, just the masking tape i used to put the thermister on. it ran with no heat related problems for a long time, even overclocked to 933 i dont understant how it ran like that. i couldnt even get the masking tape off with a razor blade, it was that baked on.

how do you shoot the devil in the back? what happens if you miss? -verbal
June 30, 2002 7:43:04 PM

Well excuse me, but I really don´t care how "respected" crashman is, if someone is wrong I´ll try to edducate him, I won´t waste my time considering the conspiracies and possible pay-backs, anyone really cares about this (other than Matisaro...obviously)???
June 30, 2002 8:16:04 PM

Quote:
Well excuse me, but I really don´t care how "respected" crashman is, if someone is wrong I´ll try to edducate him, I won´t waste my time considering the conspiracies and possible pay-backs, anyone really cares about this (other than Matisaro...obviously)???

Im not telling you to back off, im warning you that new people who attack crashman(and fatburger,and toejam and dhlucke and silverpheonix and any number of respected veterans(basically anyone who isnt a [-peep-] like amdmeltdown) usually dont get recieved well.

If you think crash is wrong say so(which I have done in a thread you posted in) dont insult him, thats all im sayin.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Matisaro on 07/01/02 02:20 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 1, 2002 3:57:18 AM

Quote:
Im not telling you to back off, im warning you that new people who attack crashman(and me, and fatburger, and any number of respected veterans) usually dont get recieved well.


LOL! what now you're part of a "clique" ROTLMAO! you're a wannabe and a troll dude, face it! nobody is beyond criticism not even you, to compare yourself with the others just shows what type of an arrogant troll you've become. now run along you little twirp.


"<b>AMD/VIA!</b>...you are <i>still</i> the weakest link, good bye!"
July 1, 2002 5:17:32 AM

LOL

trolls of the world unite!

<font color=green>Proud member of THG's</font color=green> <font color=blue>Den Of Thieves</font color=blue> :lol: 
July 1, 2002 6:13:52 AM

I have actually had a fan fail on my K6/2 300. Don't know how long it was dead for (but it started making funny noises after the first month.) But I only noticed when I installed a new network card about a year an a half after we got it. It was making noise but not moving. Never had any trouble with stability. Put a new fan on the heatsink though just to be sure.

The first time I installed a heat sink on my duron 800 (second system I built) I had overheating problems ie freezing because the heatsink wasn't on correctly. Took me about 5 restarts before I realised what the problem was. The processor is still running quite nicely in my brothers room. With a few scorch marks.

Also accidently flicked a switch on my parents mboard when I was putting more ram into their old K6/2 233 had the thing going at 300 it just froze. Flicked the switch back and alls good.

Not sure if this is all luck or what but my new soltek board for my new 1800+ has the ABS (Anti Burn Shield) just to be on the safe side.

Dont not buy AMD just because someone told you they get hot. I have never had problems with my parents 1600+ or my 1800+ and the problem with my duron was my fault.
July 1, 2002 9:19:04 AM

Ugh, I was trying to help the guy not to look bad attacking everyone he disagrees with, and I got meltdumbass on my back.


I didnt mean to sound arrogant if anyone (other than moron boy meltdown) took it that way, and im editing the comment.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
!