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whats the deal then..

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June 30, 2002 7:39:42 PM

im trying to understand something that i would love some advice on..
AMD XP cpus and this includes the new ones that are coming out as well
up against
Intel 4 Northwood cored cpus and all the new ones that they are bringing out..

now first thing is i dont want people arguing, i want to have anyone just giving me good strong facts, no bull [-peep-] no crap about silly little things, im talking good honest down to earth facts about which cpu is better for what etc..
now for the first thing i want to get straight is, why has intel got such a huge amount of clock speed over the amd cpus of this world? does this really help in ALL applications, games etc. or is it just all bollocks?
in amandtech they had a review with intel v amd and all the non northwood cored intel 4 cpus couldnt keep up with a 1400 tbird in a game test, serious sam.. but the xps etc where all top of the chain..
now when toms guide does it, the intels are miles in the air and nothing seems to be touching them, so is it that amandtech dont have a clue on how to set up the systems or does toms guide seem a little baised towards amd?
now i know the new intels can clock nearly over 50% of their non clocked state, but does this really make a lot of difference because of the types of motherboards, memory etc that intel setups have access too, i mean, which motherboard setup for an intel system would be the best to get?
i was also thinking of asking a simple question..
build two separate systems, have one intel and have one amd.. spend the same about £1000 (for aguement, make that $1500) and see what would come out better, clock for clock..
also make one with overclocking and again see which one would come out on top, but still spend the same amount of money and dont go to things like water cooling $500 tower cases and $50 keyboards, because i dont believe in spending anything much more on a KEYBOARD AND MOUSE than $15.. no more than..
so please, lets have a nice line up of whats good and whats not.. i would love to see and hear whats the best setup to have..
i do mostly gaming, i go online and i write letters etc.. but i do want a real good frame rates as i dont see the point in having a gaming system and it not performing well..
id like to keep it with no flaming, no trolling etc because i just want to know the facts about these two great manufactures.. thanks for the help and your time..

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...

More about : whats deal

June 30, 2002 7:52:31 PM

Well, please go read the "Graphics" thread you posted, I think I answered the "which one is better". As for putting 2 systems together, that's exactly what I did when I was deciding what to get. Here's what I came up with:

P4 System (Taking into account you overclock)

P4 1.8A Retail
512MB PC2700 DDR333 RAM
ABIT IT7 MAX
WD 80GB, 7200RPM, 8MB cache
Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM
Antec 1080B Case
ABIT GF4 Ti4400 128MB

Total: $1544CDN (I'm a Canadian, BTW, tomorrow's Canada Day!!!)

AMD system:

Athlon XP2000+ Retail
512MB PC2700 DDR333 RAM
ABIT AT7 VIA KT333
WD 80GB, 7200RPM, 8MB cache
Pioneer 16x DVD-ROM
Antec 1080B Case
ABIT GF4 Ti4400 128MB

Total: $1533.

Now I'm pretty sure everyone'll agree that a P4 1.8A will go to 2.4B GHz easily and probably to 2.7GHz with a 150MHz FSB. At those speeds, it'll easily outperform a XP2000+ system. But at stock speeds, the XP2000+ will win easily. So I was gonna overclock and that's why I chose the P4 system, but if you're not going to, go for AMD.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
June 30, 2002 8:13:49 PM

the reason i ask this is,
i have just bought a new a xp 1800 and as i have read, overclocking results is minimal so i havent bothered..
now i reading and getting into this a bit more, i was wondering as i have to either buy my girl friend a new motherboard or just give her mine..
now this is where i need peoples help..
do i buy intel or amd?
i play games and i love playing games, i dont worry about overclocking as much, but what i do want, is value for money..
i know from what people are saying, you can nearly double your pcs performance from overclocking a intel 4 1.8 to near 3ghz..
now would this improve my games performance? what type of system setup would be best for me? how much would it cost? what memory would be best to use in an intel system? and what type of cpu is best to get along with what type of motherboard etc..
im interested in this as i have always gone down the amd route. but i want to try and boarden my scopes a bit..
for cheap pcs ive always thought amd where the best bar none.. ive never touched intel systems, so help would be and WILL be needed... please advise..

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
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June 30, 2002 8:25:19 PM

You wont notice going from a 1800+ to a 2.4p4, it will help a little, but not enough to justify spending more money, your computer is fine right now.

Wait for prescott or hammer before upgrading.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
June 30, 2002 8:31:13 PM

See, not everyone like to overclock. That's why I think Matisaro's quote is "Intel for Overclocking, AMD for not". Oh the increase in performance is pretty phenominal. <A HREF="http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q1/020128/octitans-1..." target="_new">Here</A> at THG, they have a overclocked P4 review and compare the scores for it and the P4 1.8GHz. Since you can get a 1.8A to 2.7GHz probably, it's not shabby at all. This was my plan, but I'm not gonna do it. Cause my parents won't give me any financial aide.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
June 30, 2002 8:32:46 PM

Yeah I agree with mat here. There's no point in getting an upgrade now. Especially with your current system. Unless you meant you're gonna give you system to your girlfriend?

To Matisaro: I'm pretty sure there's probably anywhere from 20-50% increase in performance. Whether that's worth the whole upgrade or not, that' his choice. Especially with a 133MHz QP FSB. If you'd just look at the THG review of the XP2200+ review. At 2.7GHz, there's an even bigger performance increase, probably up to 60%.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Chuck232 on 06/30/02 05:40 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
June 30, 2002 8:49:30 PM

what about having a intel 1.8a and overclocking it near 3ghz, would that be more worth it?
im just trying to get the best for me and spend as little as poss..
i know my girl friend wont want it for speed like i do, but i was just wondering about getting an intel 4 system anyway... what motherboards memory fans etc does anyone recommend?
the speed that the cpu gives when in games is phenonminal, but is it worth the cash?

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 30, 2002 8:59:46 PM

so would it be worth the money for me to go out and buy a new intel motherboard, memory and a new cpu?
i have everything else for the setup, (bar the graphics card as you know!!) but is it truly worth the money?
i love and want speed, but i wouldnt be sure on what type of intel cpu to get for starts, what motherboard or memory.. any handy hints?
also, what type of cpu would be the one to go for? you say the 1.8ghz model, but what sort? 133fsb? northwood? im all confused when it comes to intel, to many chip sets, so many cpus and i just cant keep up with it all!
please recommend me a setup that would be best with the following :

geforce 4 ti 4400 or ATI 8500 RETAIL (if i can find one...)
maxtor 40gig ata 133 7200rpm hard drive
sound blaster 128 connected to mission flat sub sat system (really great are those speakers)
basic dial up modem
cd rom - but thinking of getting a dvd drive and a cd writer, any sugguestions?
i have a full tower system, thats meant for a intel board anyway... works fine with the amd setup ive gotten!!
if you need any more information, just let me know!! thanks again!!

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 30, 2002 9:02:08 PM

Well, I dunno. I still think you should wait til Hammer or Prescott. They should severly outperform anything right now, but here's an idea for a P4 system. It's acutally quite similar to something I was gonna put together.

P4 1.8A Retail - $166
ABIT IT7 Max w/ sound, LAN, IEEE1394, USB2.0, RAID - $152
512MB Samsung PC2700 RAM - $150
Antec SX1080B Case - $135
Lite-On 16X DVD-ROM - $46
Western Digital 80GB 7200RPM, w/ 8MB cache - $117
Gainward GF4 Ti4400 128MB - $248
Keyboard & Mouse - $40

BTW, that's a black system, you can get it in white very easily though.

It's $1054USD. Not too bad for a system that can probably get 13K 3DMarks in 3D Mark2K1 SE overclocked.

It's a pretty good deal, but since you already have an Athlon XP1800+, I wouldn't suggest it.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
June 30, 2002 9:10:01 PM

i think that you are correct in what you say, but for the cost, is it worth to be thinking of an intel setup? is it that much faster than a stock amd setup?
well, i think it might be an idea to wait for the hammer or prescott, but knowing me i would probably choose the hammer.. just because its amd.. but i will be thinking of widing my options..
i think with the geforce 4 ti 4400 that you have just help me get, i will be having a fast machine anyway.. i think that the graphics card will help me a lot and so this is one thing that i will be able to say, do i need anymore performance?????
im not sure of speeds in the 3dmark programs, but i would love to hit 11k in 2000 and perhaps a modest 10k in 2001se.. that would be more than enough..
as for overclocking, i thought that the geforce 4s are near a maximum anyway? if not, great, but i thought that they where limited to a 30 mhz overclock or something... nevermind..
will phone and ask how much the gainward card is going to be and see if they have any in stock..
if not any sugguestions? is the sparkle cards any good?

if all else fails... kick it and if it goes wrong, say it wasnt you...
June 30, 2002 10:10:49 PM

I think it would be worth it for some people, but not you or me. First off, it's not a phenomenal increase, given the added price. Second, we already got ourselves some nice systems, nothing to laugh at at all. I think if you just get a Gainward Ti4400, you'll be kickin ass. Now I haven't had any experiences with Sparkle, but usually they don't get good reviews. They're not as reliable as the major namufacturers like VisionTek, Gainward, MSI, ASUS, LeadTek or ABIT. I'd say try your best to get the Gainward, cause you'll be able to run it at "Golden Sample" speeds without having to worry about a burn out although I wouldn't worry otherwise anyways.

The GF4 Ti4400 and especially the Ti4200 have a long way to overclock actually. I'm pretty sure you'll get a Ti4400 to 325MHz core and 670-690MHz RAM. That's up from 275MHz core and 550MHz RAM. I'd say you'll have a pretty easy time at getting 10K. Probably need to overclock, but still.

If they don't have any in stock, I'd say wiat till they do. The only thing that could come from that is an even lower price!

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 1, 2002 9:42:44 AM

Quote:
To Matisaro: I'm pretty sure there's probably anywhere from 20-50% increase in performance. Whether that's worth the whole upgrade or not, that' his choice. Especially with a 133MHz QP FSB. If you'd just look at the THG review of the XP2200+ review. At 2.7GHz, there's an even bigger performance increase, probably up to 60%.


Yeah 20% in benchmarks, I just dont think that he will actually feel the upgrade till at least 2.5ghz, If I was him I would go into my bios and raise my fsb to 145 and be happy with my new 2000+

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 1, 2002 9:45:09 AM

Quote:
The GF4 Ti4400 and especially the Ti4200 have a long way to overclock actually. I'm pretty sure you'll get a Ti4400 to 325MHz core and 670-690MHz RAM. That's up from 275MHz core and 550MHz RAM. I'd say you'll have a pretty easy time at getting 10K. Probably need to overclock, but still.


I get 10k+ on a 1900+ and a 64 meg 4200@ 230/580, I would expect a nice score from that setup.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
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