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Item creation and adventuring

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Anonymous
July 4, 2005 3:01:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In one of Laszlo's [Campaign] threads, it has been brought to my
attention that this was said in Rules of the Game:

"Other than the loss of prerequisite spells (see the section on
prerequisites), and the time requirement, item creation doesn't impose
any restrictions on your activities during the days when you work on an
item."

I first thought that this was a kind of errata-by-"clarification", like
when the RotG said you can only speak during your own turn. But the only
thing on the topic I can find in the SRD is:

"The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by
working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the
caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit."

Which seems to agree with RotG.

But I was *absolutely sure* that item creation allowed only "routine
tasks"! I.e. no other spellcasting, no adventuring, nothing "useful".
Justisaur apparently though so too: "Yes, I rather like this option,
consider it stolen for my own campain." And my impression is that it is
common wisdom that you need to give PCs enough downtime if item creation
feats are to be useful.

For example, the City of the Spider Queen adventure is criticized for
driving the PCs onwards from 10th-18th without much opportunity for
rest, leaving them with looting as the only option to improve their
gear. But if the rule is... well, what it appears to be, it's easy to
find 8 hours per day to work on items! If you're not actually
travelling, once you hit heavy resistance, you only adventure for a few
hours every day before you run out of spells/rages/smite evils. So why
is the lack of downtime pointed out as a flaw of CotSQ?

Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
rule?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 3:01:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In one of Laszlo's [Campaign] threads, it has been brought to my
> attention that this was said in Rules of the Game:
>
> "Other than the loss of prerequisite spells (see the section on
> prerequisites), and the time requirement, item creation doesn't impose
> any restrictions on your activities during the days when you work on an
> item."
>
> I first thought that this was a kind of errata-by-"clarification", like
> when the RotG said you can only speak during your own turn. But the only
> thing on the topic I can find in the SRD is:
>
> "The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by
> working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the
> caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit."
>
> Which seems to agree with RotG.
>
> But I was *absolutely sure* that item creation allowed only "routine
> tasks"! I.e. no other spellcasting, no adventuring, nothing "useful".
> Justisaur apparently though so too: "Yes, I rather like this option,
> consider it stolen for my own campain." And my impression is that it is
> common wisdom that you need to give PCs enough downtime if item creation
> feats are to be useful.
>
> For example, the City of the Spider Queen adventure is criticized for
> driving the PCs onwards from 10th-18th without much opportunity for
> rest, leaving them with looting as the only option to improve their
> gear. But if the rule is... well, what it appears to be, it's easy to
> find 8 hours per day to work on items! If you're not actually
> travelling, once you hit heavy resistance, you only adventure for a few
> hours every day before you run out of spells/rages/smite evils. So why
> is the lack of downtime pointed out as a flaw of CotSQ?
>
> Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
> items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
> rule?
>

Looking at my 3.0 dmg, It appears the same, but you left out the
passage that throws us in that direction (from 3.5 srd, same passage in
3.0 dmg):

"The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place
in which to work."

However the next line rather lessens the possible impact of that, as it
explains:

"Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items"

As most DMs won't restrict you from preparing spells while sitting
around on an uncomfortible cold damp floor in a dungeon.

- Justisaur
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 6:26:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1120475267.220305.99530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
justisaur@gmail.com says...

> > [you can fight and make items in the same day]
> >
> > Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
> > items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
> > rule?
>
> Looking at my 3.0 dmg, It appears the same, but you left out the
> passage that throws us in that direction (from 3.5 srd, same passage in
> 3.0 dmg):
>
> "The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place
> in which to work."
>
> However the next line rather lessens the possible impact of that, as it
> explains:
>
> "Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items"
>
> As most DMs won't restrict you from preparing spells while sitting
> around on an uncomfortible cold damp floor in a dungeon.

Huh. I don't think that would've been enough to make me draw the
conclusion I did. After all, even if you need to have a neat little
worktable and be sitting in the comfy chair, if you're for example
defending a city against a siege, you could fight each and every day,
and then after the sortie is over, go back to that full plate +4.

And the siege is exactly what happened IMC and I didn't allow them to
make items and even though that made things quite inconvenient for the
party at times, no-one even pointed out that the rules don't say so,
which lead me to believe that the rules must have been different in
3.0... weird.

Maybe it's someplace else in the 3.0 DMG? IIRC, the "need not be
consecutive" is a 3.5 addition; maybe at the same place where 3.0 says
that the work must be consecutive, it also says that it cannot be
interrupted by other spellcasting, fighting, and such?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 6:26:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Well, what do you know. An area where I'm FAR more limiting and
restrictive than the rules permit.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 4:39:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <MPG.1d33497b78dcc49b989735@news.iskon.hr>,
Jasin Zujovic <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote:
>Maybe it's someplace else in the 3.0 DMG? IIRC, the "need not be
>consecutive" is a 3.5 addition; maybe at the same place where 3.0 says
>that the work must be consecutive, it also says that it cannot be
>interrupted by other spellcasting, fighting, and such?

It strikes me that, if you try adventuring in the same block of days you're
creating something, you run the risk of serious injury during adventuring
breaking up the "consecutive days" requirement.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:20:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <1120475267.220305.99530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> justisaur@gmail.com says...
>
>>>[you can fight and make items in the same day]
>>>
>>>Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
>>>items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
>>>rule?
>>
>>Looking at my 3.0 dmg, It appears the same, but you left out the
>>passage that throws us in that direction (from 3.5 srd, same passage in
>>3.0 dmg):
>>
>>"The creator also needs a fairly quiet, comfortable, and well-lit place
>>in which to work."
>>
>>However the next line rather lessens the possible impact of that, as it
>>explains:
>>
>>"Any place suitable for preparing spells is suitable for making items"
>>
>>As most DMs won't restrict you from preparing spells while sitting
>>around on an uncomfortible cold damp floor in a dungeon.

<snip>
> Maybe it's someplace else in the 3.0 DMG? IIRC, the "need not be
> consecutive" is a 3.5 addition; maybe at the same place where 3.0 says
> that the work must be consecutive, it also says that it cannot be
> interrupted by other spellcasting, fighting, and such?

3.0 DMG p242 talks about how you can't do much of anything during
rests taken amoungst the 8 hours work, and that you must *work* 8 hours,
so any rest extends the time. I guess people just extended that to
assume that 8 hours + rest breaks covers most of the day.
It also talks about how if you're disturbed the process is ruined,
but it obviously intended to refer only to about starting an 8 hour
block that you don't finish, rather than having to stick at it non-stop
between days.

Realistically, if you can lug the gear around (weapons and armour
needed a heat source aswell, and everything needed appropriate tools for
working the item in question) then you can finish the work with five or
six hours to spare (one of which goes to spell memorisation).

Be a bastard to get interrupted on a big item though.


And no, up until it came up here, I hadn't noticed that it had
changed since 2nd edition. I figured if it took 10 days, then any
interuption for 10 days and nights would ruin things.

This way's much better, espeically for making scrolls and potions
after a days adventure (if you've got the needed components, and the
spells left memorised).

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 11:06:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In one of Laszlo's [Campaign] threads, it has been brought to my
> attention that this was said in Rules of the Game:

> Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
> items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
> rule?
>

I just found this in the 3.5 SRD in the feats section:

"Using an item creation feat also requires access to a laboratory or
magical workshop, special tools, and so on"

Since this condradicts what's in the DMG (both 3.0 & 3.5), take your
pick.

- Justisaur
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 11:33:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Alex Lamb wrote:
> In article <1120572372.961800.202950@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> >> Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
> >> items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
> >> rule?
> >I just found this in the 3.5 SRD in the feats section:
> >
> >"Using an item creation feat also requires access to a laboratory or
> >magical workshop, special tools, and so on"
> >
> >Since this condradicts what's in the DMG (both 3.0 & 3.5), take your
> >pick.
>
> Strictly speaking, it doesn't necessarily contradict. It means your only
> adventuring during item creation has to be close to your workshop -- easy
> enough in a city-based campaign, but kinda hard on travellers.

To clarify: I'm not going to require a laboratory for crafters. I'm
going to require components and tools, but nothing that can't be
carried in saddlebags. Assuming you know what you want to craft, of
course: if you suddenly decide to make a magic sword, for instance, a
trip back to the city may be in order for some of the necessary stuff.
But once you have it, you can craft in the wilderness. And for simpler
items (wand of CLW, potions, scrolls), you're assumed to have all the
necessary stuff.

Laszlo
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:11:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <1120572372.961800.202950@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Justisaur <justisaur@gmail.com> wrote:
>Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>> Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
>> items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
>> rule?
>I just found this in the 3.5 SRD in the feats section:
>
>"Using an item creation feat also requires access to a laboratory or
>magical workshop, special tools, and so on"
>
>Since this condradicts what's in the DMG (both 3.0 & 3.5), take your
>pick.

Strictly speaking, it doesn't necessarily contradict. It means your only
adventuring during item creation has to be close to your workshop -- easy
enough in a city-based campaign, but kinda hard on travellers.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 6:14:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <dackss$pje$1@knot.queensu.ca>, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca
says...

> >Maybe it's someplace else in the 3.0 DMG? IIRC, the "need not be
> >consecutive" is a 3.5 addition; maybe at the same place where 3.0 says
> >that the work must be consecutive, it also says that it cannot be
> >interrupted by other spellcasting, fighting, and such?
>
> It strikes me that, if you try adventuring in the same block of days you're
> creating something, you run the risk of serious injury during adventuring
> breaking up the "consecutive days" requirement.

Well, it would have to be some pretty serious injury so that it can't be
fixed by time you need to start working the next day...

However, someone on ENWorld posted this in reply to the same question:
"The character can do nothing else while working. During rest periods,
the character can engage in light activity such as talking or walking
but cannot fight, cast spells, use magic items, conduct research, or
perform any other physically or mentally demanding task."

So adventuring was indeed explicitly forbidden in 3.0, even if you could
manage to find 8 hours each day to work, and work consecutive days.

I like the new rule much better. But I'm still astonished that I haven't
noticed it by now, especially since downtime has been a pretty big issue
IMC, and everyone was overjoyed that 3.5 allowed non-consecutive
crafting... but no-one caught that they could also kill monsters and
take their stuff.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 8:13:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:

> In article <dackss$pje$1@knot.queensu.ca>, dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca
> says...
>
>
>>>Maybe it's someplace else in the 3.0 DMG? IIRC, the "need not be
>>>consecutive" is a 3.5 addition; maybe at the same place where 3.0 says
>>>that the work must be consecutive, it also says that it cannot be
>>>interrupted by other spellcasting, fighting, and such?
>>
>>It strikes me that, if you try adventuring in the same block of days you're
>>creating something, you run the risk of serious injury during adventuring
>>breaking up the "consecutive days" requirement.
>
>
> Well, it would have to be some pretty serious injury so that it can't be
> fixed by time you need to start working the next day...
>
> However, someone on ENWorld posted this in reply to the same question:
> "The character can do nothing else while working. During rest periods,
> the character can engage in light activity such as talking or walking
> but cannot fight, cast spells, use magic items, conduct research, or
> perform any other physically or mentally demanding task."
>
> So adventuring was indeed explicitly forbidden in 3.0, even if you could
> manage to find 8 hours each day to work, and work consecutive days.

They made things incredibly easier for wizards in 3.5. Just compare the
rules for writing new spells into your book.

- Ron ^*^

(Who had to suffer through 3.0 as a gnome Arcane Trickster -- CURSE YOU,
DECIPHER SCRIPT!!!)

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 10:22:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In one of Laszlo's [Campaign] threads, it has been brought to my
> attention that this was said in Rules of the Game:
>
> "Other than the loss of prerequisite spells (see the section on
> prerequisites), and the time requirement, item creation doesn't impose
> any restrictions on your activities during the days when you work on an
> item."
>
> I first thought that this was a kind of errata-by-"clarification", like
> when the RotG said you can only speak during your own turn. But the only
> thing on the topic I can find in the SRD is:
>
> "The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by
> working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the
> caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit."
>
> Which seems to agree with RotG.
>
> But I was *absolutely sure* that item creation allowed only "routine
> tasks"! I.e. no other spellcasting, no adventuring, nothing "useful".
> Justisaur apparently though so too: "Yes, I rather like this option,
> consider it stolen for my own campain." And my impression is that it is
> common wisdom that you need to give PCs enough downtime if item creation
> feats are to be useful.
>
> For example, the City of the Spider Queen adventure is criticized for
> driving the PCs onwards from 10th-18th without much opportunity for
> rest, leaving them with looting as the only option to improve their
> gear. But if the rule is... well, what it appears to be, it's easy to
> find 8 hours per day to work on items! If you're not actually
> travelling, once you hit heavy resistance, you only adventure for a few
> hours every day before you run out of spells/rages/smite evils. So why
> is the lack of downtime pointed out as a flaw of CotSQ?
>
> Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
> items" in 3.0, as I recall it? Are most people even aware of the new
> rule?

Well, note that there ARE equipment and environment limitations a bit
further down that page. Can the characters meet those as well while
adventuring? I suppose if an adventuring day is 8 hours, like a job,
and sleep is 8 hours, you could say that the other 8 hours is free for
fun things like item creation. I don't know about that, though. It
kind of messes with the idea of a spelluser sitting locked away in
concentration
and/or prayer, creating something of power. I'll have to think about
this one.
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 2:00:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jim Davies wrote:
> Likewise, a rope of climbing or cloak of elvenkind should be easy.
> Even a staff should be OK. OTOH, you'd be hard pressed to make a magic
> sword without a decent forge that can work good steel.

Read _The Misenchanted Sword_. Excellent story.

Laszlo
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 2:35:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Behold! for laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu spake unto the multitude thus:

>
>To clarify: I'm not going to require a laboratory for crafters. I'm
>going to require components and tools, but nothing that can't be
>carried in saddlebags. Assuming you know what you want to craft, of
>course: if you suddenly decide to make a magic sword, for instance, a
>trip back to the city may be in order for some of the necessary stuff.
>But once you have it, you can craft in the wilderness. And for simpler
>items (wand of CLW, potions, scrolls), you're assumed to have all the
>necessary stuff.

Seems fair for basic things. I think a druid or nature cleric could
brew up a potion with little more than a campfire, a load of herbs and
a few special ingredients he's bought in town.

Likewise, a rope of climbing or cloak of elvenkind should be easy.
Even a staff should be OK. OTOH, you'd be hard pressed to make a magic
sword without a decent forge that can work good steel. And as for
making something like a Rod of Rulership or an Apparatus of Kwalish in
the bush, forget it.

--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 1:48:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <gnGye.3893$HV1.1219@fed1read07>, someguy@thedoor.gov says...

> Well, note that there ARE equipment and environment limitations a bit
> further down that page. Can the characters meet those as well while
> adventuring?

Sometimes not, but sometimes yes.

In 3.0, even if you could meet those, as soon as you cast your first
spell that wasn't a part of item creation, the item creation was over.

> I suppose if an adventuring day is 8 hours, like a job,
> and sleep is 8 hours, you could say that the other 8 hours is free for
> fun things like item creation. I don't know about that, though. It
> kind of messes with the idea of a spelluser sitting locked away in
> concentration and/or prayer, creating something of power.

I was thinking more along the lines of a spellcaster sitting locked away
in his tower while the enemies try to figure out a way to get in. He
works 4 hours, teleports out, blasts the enemies some, casts wall of
stone to fix the damage they've done to the tower, teleports back in,
works for another 4 hours.

Or: a party at the beginning of CotSQ, when there's pretty heavy
resistance, but you're still an hour's walk or so from town. You set
yourself up an in town, and each day you spend 1 hour to get to the
adventure site, 1 hour killin' drow, 1 hour going back, and 8 hours
making items.

I don't think the new rule allows item creatin each and every day of the
character's life. After all, if you're walking/fighting/exploring for 8
hours a day, and sleeping for 8 hours a day, you can hardly find enough
time for 8 hours of item creation, unless you somehow never need to eat,
take breaks from work, or go to the bathroom.

However, IME, it's not uncommon for an adventuring day to end up being
1-2 hours of fighting and 14-15 hours of waiting for the next day's
batch of spells and X/day abilities. There are times when using that
free time to make a scroll or get a head start on that +3 sword might be
very important.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 4:40:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jasin Zujovic" <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d33195296d822c0989734@news.iskon.hr...
>
> In one of Laszlo's [Campaign] threads, it has been brought to my
> attention that this was said in Rules of the Game:
>
> "Other than the loss of prerequisite spells (see the section on
> prerequisites), and the time requirement, item creation doesn't impose
> any restrictions on your activities during the days when you work on an
> item."
>
> I first thought that this was a kind of errata-by-"clarification", like
> when the RotG said you can only speak during your own turn. But the only
> thing on the topic I can find in the SRD is:
>
> "The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by
> working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the
> caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit."

Reading this makes me wonder...

You cannot rush the process by working more than 8 hours a day on an item.
A day is 24 hours long.
Can a character work on two magic items at the same time? It eats up 16
hours of their day, leaving just 8 hours for eating, sleeping, preparing
spells, and the other essentials of life.
This means that a single item at a time is the limit for creatures who sleep
8 hours or more a day.
....But then we have Elves who trance for 4 hours, and characters wearing
rings of sustenance who sleep for 2 hours.

The recent casting limit may make things a little more tricky, as will the
requirement of 8 hours rest before spell preparation (which doesn't seem to
apply to divine casters).

Opinions?

> Is this a rule new to 3.5? Was it really "no adventuring while creating
> items" in 3.0, as I recall it?

Yes to both.

> Are most people even aware of the new rule?

Only since reading Laszlo's message.

--
All the best,
RF
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 4:40:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Richard Fielding wrote:

> "Jasin Zujovic" <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d33195296d822c0989734@news.iskon.hr...
>
>>In one of Laszlo's [Campaign] threads, it has been brought to my
>>attention that this was said in Rules of the Game:
>>
>>"Other than the loss of prerequisite spells (see the section on
>>prerequisites), and the time requirement, item creation doesn't impose
>>any restrictions on your activities during the days when you work on an
>>item."
>>
>>I first thought that this was a kind of errata-by-"clarification", like
>>when the RotG said you can only speak during your own turn. But the only
>>thing on the topic I can find in the SRD is:
>>
>>"The caster works for 8 hours each day. He cannot rush the process by
>>working longer each day. But the days need not be consecutive, and the
>>caster can use the rest of his time as he sees fit."
>
>
> Reading this makes me wonder...
>
> You cannot rush the process by working more than 8 hours a day on an item.
> A day is 24 hours long.
> Can a character work on two magic items at the same time? It eats up 16
> hours of their day, leaving just 8 hours for eating, sleeping, preparing
> spells, and the other essentials of life.
> This means that a single item at a time is the limit for creatures who sleep
> 8 hours or more a day.
> ...But then we have Elves who trance for 4 hours, and characters wearing
> rings of sustenance who sleep for 2 hours.
>
> The recent casting limit may make things a little more tricky, as will the
> requirement of 8 hours rest before spell preparation (which doesn't seem to
> apply to divine casters).
>
> Opinions?

Isn't there some ring that removes the need for sleep, too? And
warforged never sleep...

That's two items per day, easy.

I wouldn't allow it, myself. You can't work more than 8 hours a day on
crafting magic items.

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 6:03:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
>Jim Davies wrote:
>> Likewise, a rope of climbing or cloak of elvenkind should be easy.
>> Even a staff should be OK. OTOH, you'd be hard pressed to make a magic
>> sword without a decent forge that can work good steel.

>Read _The Misenchanted Sword_. Excellent story.

Most excellent. To be fair, though:

1) It was a pre-existing sword that was enchanted, not one
forged specifically for that purpose.

2) Fendel had the remains of his fully stocked laboratory to
work with.

3) It was friggin' Fendel the Great, the most powerful wizard
Ethshar has ever known. Of course he can do stuff lesser
wizards can't.

And actually, it's a good example of why you wouldn't
necessarily want to do any heavy enchanting out in the
field. Hint - make sure you have decent lighting when
choosing ingredients.

Very good book, as are all the other Ethshar books.
By Lawrence Watt-Evans, for those interested. He's
currently publishing a new Ethshar book on his
website, one chapter at a time. It costs $100 a
chapter in donations via PayPal (not per reader,
obviously), and so far it's still going strong.

http://www.ethshar.com/thesprigganexperiment0.html

Pete
July 7, 2005 11:28:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
news:YcTye.72614$Fv.30512@lakeread01:

>>
>> Opinions?
>
> Isn't there some ring that removes the need for sleep, too? And
> warforged never sleep...
>
> That's two items per day, easy.
>
> I wouldn't allow it, myself. You can't work more than 8 hours a day
> on crafting magic items.
>
> - Ron ^*^
>
>

You're absolutely right. The DMG states working more than eight hours a day
on any item is useless. Try working on a second item on your off-hours, and
even worse poof you waste all your experience points and unfinished
materials. So never try that.
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 1:41:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> In article <gnGye.3893$HV1.1219@fed1read07>, someguy@thedoor.gov says...

> I don't think the new rule allows item creatin each and every day of the
> character's life. After all, if you're walking/fighting/exploring for 8
> hours a day, and sleeping for 8 hours a day, you can hardly find enough
> time for 8 hours of item creation, unless you somehow never need to eat,
> take breaks from work, or go to the bathroom.

Rings of Sustenance are very popular among my group. It brings sleep
down to 4 hours a day, and takes care of the rest of that besides
travel.

>
> However, IME, it's not uncommon for an adventuring day to end up being
> 1-2 hours of fighting and 14-15 hours of waiting for the next day's
> batch of spells and X/day abilities. There are times when using that
> free time to make a scroll or get a head start on that +3 sword might be
> very important.
>

True.

- Justisaur
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 9:51:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
> However, someone on ENWorld posted this in reply to the same question:
> "The character can do nothing else while working. During rest periods,
> the character can engage in light activity such as talking or walking
> but cannot fight, cast spells, use magic items, conduct research, or
> perform any other physically or mentally demanding task."
>
> So adventuring was indeed explicitly forbidden in 3.0, even if you could
> manage to find 8 hours each day to work, and work consecutive days.

The "rest periods" there refers to meals and such taken amongst the
eight hours of work, and not the time before and after work each day,
even though it's not obvious.

As I said earlier, I never noticed the change from ADnD.

--
tussock

Apsie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 9:51:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <42ccc27f@clear.net.nz>, scrub@clear.net.nz says...

> > However, someone on ENWorld posted this in reply to the same question:
> > "The character can do nothing else while working. During rest periods,
> > the character can engage in light activity such as talking or walking
> > but cannot fight, cast spells, use magic items, conduct research, or
> > perform any other physically or mentally demanding task."
> >
> > So adventuring was indeed explicitly forbidden in 3.0, even if you could
> > manage to find 8 hours each day to work, and work consecutive days.
>
> The "rest periods" there refers to meals and such taken amongst the
> eight hours of work, and not the time before and after work each day,
> even though it's not obvious.

Do you mean that even in 3.0, you could fight and cast other spells in
the time before/after work? The above quote would be an awfully oblique
way of phrasing it, if that's what's intended. And I don't think many
people read it that way, in 3.0.

> As I said earlier, I never noticed the change from ADnD.

Eh? Were there even rules for making items in AD&D, beyond "1) you need
to have the enchant an item spell; 2) you need to check with your DM,
and work some stuff out".


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 10:00:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Joseph" <void@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Xns968C236046ED1619void@199.45.49.11...
> Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
> news:YcTye.72614$Fv.30512@lakeread01:
>
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>
>> Isn't there some ring that removes the need for sleep, too? And
>> warforged never sleep...
>>
>> That's two items per day, easy.
>>
>> I wouldn't allow it, myself. You can't work more than 8 hours a day
>> on crafting magic items.
>
> You're absolutely right. The DMG states working more than eight hours a
> day
> on any item is useless. Try working on a second item on your off-hours,
> and
> even worse poof you waste all your experience points and unfinished
> materials. So never try that.

Nearly right, I think, and defiantly the intention, so I wouldn't suggest
(or allow) it in game.

<rules lawyer hat ON>

However, what it actually says is that you may not work on more than one
item at a time. So it might be possible to make two potions in one day, or
spend 16 hours working on scrolls that take 8 hours (maybe less if house
ruled) to scribe.

</hat>

--
RF
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:13:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 7 Jul 2005 09:41:52 -0700, "Justisaur" <justisaur@gmail.com> carved
upon a tablet of ether:

>
>
> Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> > In article <gnGye.3893$HV1.1219@fed1read07>, someguy@thedoor.gov says...
>
> > I don't think the new rule allows item creatin each and every day of the
> > character's life. After all, if you're walking/fighting/exploring for 8
> > hours a day, and sleeping for 8 hours a day, you can hardly find enough
> > time for 8 hours of item creation, unless you somehow never need to eat,
> > take breaks from work, or go to the bathroom.
>
> Rings of Sustenance are very popular among my group. It brings sleep
> down to 4 hours a day, and takes care of the rest of that besides
> travel.

That's only a help if the arcanists are jolly good sorts and don't
demand the opportunity to refresh their spell slots.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 7:25:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Richard Fielding wrote:
> "Joseph" <void@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns968C236046ED1619void@199.45.49.11...
>
>>Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
>>news:YcTye.72614$Fv.30512@lakeread01:
>>
>>
>>>>Opinions?
>>>
>>>Isn't there some ring that removes the need for sleep, too? And
>>>warforged never sleep...
>>>
>>>That's two items per day, easy.
>>>
>>>I wouldn't allow it, myself. You can't work more than 8 hours a day
>>>on crafting magic items.
>>
>>You're absolutely right. The DMG states working more than eight hours a
>>day
>>on any item is useless. Try working on a second item on your off-hours,
>>and
>>even worse poof you waste all your experience points and unfinished
>>materials. So never try that.
>
>
> Nearly right, I think, and defiantly the intention, so I wouldn't suggest
> (or allow) it in game.
>
> <rules lawyer hat ON>
>
> However, what it actually says is that you may not work on more than one
> item at a time. So it might be possible to make two potions in one day, or
> spend 16 hours working on scrolls that take 8 hours (maybe less if house
> ruled) to scribe.
>
> </hat>

Well, my *house rule* (which is the best way of doing it) is that a
character may spent no more than 8 hours a day working on magic items.

So, he could crank out quite a few 1st level spell scrolls, for example.
But only for 8 hours.

- Ron ^*^
July 8, 2005 11:51:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
news:WqAze.73110$Fv.9831@lakeread01:

>
>
> Richard Fielding wrote:
>> "Joseph" <void@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns968C236046ED1619void@199.45.49.11...
>>
>>>Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> wrote in
>>>news:YcTye.72614$Fv.30512@lakeread01:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Opinions?
>>>>
>>>>Isn't there some ring that removes the need for sleep, too? And
>>>>warforged never sleep...
>>>>
>>>>That's two items per day, easy.
>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't allow it, myself. You can't work more than 8 hours a day
>>>>on crafting magic items.
>>>
>>>You're absolutely right. The DMG states working more than eight hours
>>>a day
>>>on any item is useless. Try working on a second item on your
>>>off-hours, and
>>>even worse poof you waste all your experience points and unfinished
>>>materials. So never try that.
>>
>>
>> Nearly right, I think, and defiantly the intention, so I wouldn't
>> suggest (or allow) it in game.
>>
>> <rules lawyer hat ON>
>>
>> However, what it actually says is that you may not work on more than
>> one item at a time. So it might be possible to make two potions in
>> one day, or spend 16 hours working on scrolls that take 8 hours
>> (maybe less if house ruled) to scribe.
>>
>> </hat>
>
> Well, my *house rule* (which is the best way of doing it) is that a
> character may spent no more than 8 hours a day working on magic items.
>
> So, he could crank out quite a few 1st level spell scrolls, for
> example.
> But only for 8 hours.
>
> - Ron ^*^
>

I don't think it would break game balance, but I'm out of habit of
playing so my rules sense is rusty.
!