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Stop Smothering AMD?

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July 4, 2002 1:11:30 PM

Ok, I just read the article on the front page title
"Stop Smothing AMD"

Seeing as I haven't checked into these forums (which is
where I presume these fanatical fans reside) since
last December, I have no idea what he's talking about.
Can anyone provide me with some background?

Intel Components, AMD Components... all made in Taiwan!

More about : stop smothering amd

July 4, 2002 1:22:30 PM

The only reason I support AMD (I am not a mad fan) is that it seems that this site seems slightly biased?

Don't blame the users, blame the sites that report the news.

Apparently this whole thing is about people who sleep with their computers...it seems.....
July 4, 2002 1:28:08 PM

I like AMD also, definately nowhere near being fanatical
about it.

Every site is biased to some degree, I just wanted to know
where he was coming from.
Related resources
July 4, 2002 1:31:51 PM

Hmmm..... reading that article kinda made me mad. I mean I like AMD chips cause of thier ability and price, not cause I'm a "fanboy". Oh there is the occasional fanboy, but that happens to both sides. I mean there's plenty of Intel fanboys here and the same with ATi and nVidia.

The article seemed especially harsh and they tried to make it sound as though the were trying to help out AMD, but I believe none of that. To me it sounded like someone had a lot of fun bashing away at AMD and their conusmers. I mean some of the points they made are true, but people like AMD not cause they're "Apple wannabes", it's cause AMD makes good CPUs and products. While I agree that AMD fans have overrated AMD's products a bit, that shouldn't be the reason for such an insulting article to AMD clients.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Chuck232 on 07/04/02 10:33 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 4, 2002 1:42:31 PM

Indeed, I was even more confused by the whole "recalcitrant
Canadians and Europeans" statement. Being Canadian and
all.

What on earth is he talking about???

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kurokaze on 07/04/02 09:43 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 4, 2002 1:46:42 PM

I dunno, I'm Canadian too and recalcitrant means that we are uncontrolled or unobeying.... Sounds like an insult to me.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 4, 2002 2:11:33 PM

People take sides as if Intel and AMD are two sporting teams. And, as w/ sports, people turn to fanatics. You see people rioting, flipping cars over, etc...Because the 11 guys rep. there city kicked a ball around better than someone elses 11 guys. Who wants to be associated w/ fanatics? That's his point. The vocal AMD user sounds mostly biased, and sometimes ignorant. Especially when they refuse to believe that an Intel chip is better in any way. Or they choose AMD simply because they Like AMD, not because the proc, or tech is better. They perpetuate myths about AMDs next procs. Take on the defensive attitude of the "sore loser" when these new procs come out and dont make THEIR expectations. Find loopholes or qualifiers as to why AMD is better. Anyone who sees anything wrong w/ the article as a whole might be a fanboy. He's right. Who wants to be associated w/ fanatics. Biased, and thinking the world is against them and their procs (lol sounds ridiculous, but true for some of you).

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 2:15:11 PM

It means that if you're a "rogue", can., eur., than July 4th means something to you......It's pretty light hearted, a joke. Sorta meaning no one cares today is the 4th cept Americans.....

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 2:25:34 PM

Hey, it's not like I don't like Intel chips. I was personnally gonna get a P4 1.8A. Now that's not the point. Can you seriously tell me that there is an Intel chip that that costs the same as an AMD will be better (without overclocking)? Take a look:

XP2000+:p 4 1.8A
XP1900+:p 4 1.6A
XP2100+:p 4 2.0A

Now, if you look at that, the prices are very similar, and without overclocking, the AMD wins in all those cases. All I'm saying is that AMD also does have good points. And I'm definitely not a fanboy. I merely take a look at what worth it. I know for us comp enthusiasts, you'd buy a P4 expecting to overclock, but a lot of people buy P4s and don't overclock. In many of those cases they could be getting a similar priced CPU and get more out of them.

I have not spread BS about how Hammer is gonna crush everything, instead I think that Hammer will have a tough time against Prescott. Hammer may have a lot going for it, but it just seems like AMD isn't gonna have the ability to market these CPUs like Intel can.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 4, 2002 2:42:46 PM

You're just comparing price, that's fine. Intel is soon to release a 2.8ghz chip that will probably cost $600. That sure sucks for people that dont have $600 to spend on a chip. With the price argument out of the way, what does AMD have over Intel? AMD has no SSE2, arent known for great OC's, Run hot, have via as their best supporting CS, no on chip thermal prot., crush easy....Lots of things to sway anyone looking to purchase a proc today. Other than price, AMD really doesnt have anything to offer that intel doesnt have, or cant do better. You're making qualifiers for AMD chips......What I got from your post was that AXPs are a good proc for people on a budget. Fanboy arguments changed a lot. Used to argue for AMD because they were better performers, not only because they were cheap. I will not buy an AMD proc now only because theyre just not as good as Intel. Period. Yet you can argue here up and down how in some applications AMD is better.....Just to see AMD win in something. Like Price/Performance....which is laughable, especially in an enthusiasts hardware forum where performance should take precedance every time.

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 2:51:01 PM

Quote:
I will not buy an AMD proc now only because theyre just not as good as Intel. Period.


Who sounds like the fanboy in this sentence?

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 2:54:18 PM

Hey..... why does your post sound like a Intel fanboy type? I've already made it clear that I definitely don't favor AMD as I was going to get an Intel setup. Currently I have 3 Intel systems and 0 AMD. I'm going to look for the best chip in my budget. May it be AMD or Intel. Think about it. In a tech forum such as this one, people don't necessarily have $500 to blow on a CPU that's 15% faster than a CPU that's $200. Say I have a budget of $100. What would you suggest me do if I wanted a CPU? Would I get a Celeron or a Athlon XP? You tell me. VIA chipsets aren't bad at all. It's funny how only a small portion of the people with VIA chipsets have problems. Intel has ramped up the performance and AMD was not able to. But with Hammer, they should get it back for a short while, til Prescott comes along. I don't give a damn at what apps the Athlons are better, merely AMD chips do outperform at heir price. What other way would you have it? I can say, well my 10000 Intel Itanium5 supercomputer is better than your Athlon XP2000+, but obviously the price is different. If price/performance should mean nothing, then what should mean everything?

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 4, 2002 2:57:29 PM

Yeah! Just the person I need now.

<pre>Be careful of Matisaro, just when you think you're doing good, he firmly sets you back into your place... I learned the hard way</pre><p> :smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 4, 2002 2:59:08 PM

I could produce a ton of reasons why I think Intel is a better purchase right now......But heres one that should sell it to everyone.......Performance. That's my opinion, and I dont see how my statement makes me look like a fanboy. I thought when I described what the AMD procs lacked, you could figure why I would make that statement. I guess I overestimate peoples.......well.

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 3:04:44 PM

Quote:
That's my opinion, and I dont see how my statement makes me look like a fanboy. I thought when I described what the AMD procs lacked, you could figure why I would make that statement. I guess I overestimate peoples.......well.


So people whos oppinion is that amd is better/has good value for the dollar makes them fanboys, but your blatantly biased amd sucks ass/intel is better in every way oppinion dosent make you an intel fanboy.

I dont have time for hypocrites. Have a nice thread.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 3:09:32 PM

Well, it was my thread to begin with.. anyway, I still
want to know what that article was all about.

Intel/AMD fanboys will come and go, pay them no mind.
I myself have 2 intel systems and 1 amd system. Both
have served me over the years. And quite frankly, not
all of us are willing to spend $$$ on the biggest and
the best when something a little more mid-range will
do just fine. After all, who cares if you get an extra
10fps on a P4 vs AXP when the rates are over 100fps
to begin with? You won't notice a damn difference.
July 4, 2002 3:10:59 PM

Im no fanboy, a realist. You're right, a lot of people dont have the $$. AMD wins there, but thats the only place it wins is my point. Performance means everything....That's what's exciting. AMD wins hands down price/performance. Congrats AMD.

That small portion has a loud voice. Kept me from buying via this time around.....plus my past experiences.

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 3:12:45 PM

Quote:
Well, it was my thread to begin with.. anyway, I still
want to know what that article was all about.


I meant led should have a nice time.

It boils down to this, you dont overclock amd is the best bang for your buck, you do overclock intel is the clear way to go.

Anyone who has a problem with that stand is one step closer to being a fanboy, this article was a joke, then again, this website has sucked for articles for the whole last year, anand and hardocp are much better, I am just here for the forum.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 3:16:28 PM

Its funny because I left this forum due to the constant
flame wars over Intel/AMD. I only read the reviews
and articles here.

I barely read the articles and reviews over a [H], but
I spent alot time at their forums (which are down AGAIN).

I don't really read anand, mostly I read /. and arstechnica.
July 4, 2002 3:16:43 PM

Truth hurts sometimes. Another symptom of fanboyism....Failure to believe the facts. Tell me what makes AMD procs more favorable than intels, besides the price/performance.

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 3:19:00 PM

Quote:
Truth hurts sometimes. Another symptom of fanboyism....Failure to believe the facts. Tell me what makes AMD procs more favorable than intels, besides the price/performance.

I said I dont have time for hypocrites, if you cannot read your comments(intel wins against amd in everything, period((except for price/performance cause led has decided that is not important and only amd fanboys think thats a reason)) and see the utter hypocrasy in your words then I dont have time nor the desire to talk to you on this subject.



:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 3:19:37 PM

Quote:
I read /. and arstechnica.


Same here, I love ars!

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 3:30:53 PM

Because theres no argument there, Mat. Im really not being hypocritacle, just on the other side of the fence right now. I started to play devils advocate here on occasion just because it will mostly just be an AMD love fest. Now it's become my M.O. simply because I cannot believe the way some people react to negativity towards AMD. I dont push buttons quite as hard as AMDMeltdown, and I try to have more respect towards people than Fugger....I post truths, facts, or guesses to the best of my knowledge are educated hehe. Calling me a hypocrate and attacking me personally may be a defense mechanism or an avoidance of the topic....

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 3:45:02 PM

i'm certainly no fanboy. but i don't see what's wrong with led's comments. i mean honestly, besides price/performance in amd's favor, what other advantages does amd have at this point? if money was no object you're telling me you wouldn't have the fastest intel chip? my system is fine, other than the outrageous amounts of heat it pumps out. but if hammer isn't all that and a bag of fritos i'll have me a nice xeon rig this winter or next spring. and really i don't think prices are that bad even now. yeah a top of the line intel chip <i>might</i> look expensive to amd offerings. but in the whole scheme of things, it's not. i remember when i built my first rig, if i took that same amount of money now, i could easily put together a nice xeon rig. all people keep spewing about is how much faster the hammer will be than the current xp. i honestly don't think it's going to blow away what intel will have by then, so when hammer is released and doesn't live up to everyone's expectations will we still keep hearing about "oh, but it's 30%-40% faster per clock than the xp!!" some of the guys around here are worse with amd than fugger or anyone ever was/is with intel. i don't know, maybe this is all a hobby for some of the people here, maybe you have to be some kind of "supa-geek" to appreciate it.

the world looks a lot better using a glidecam :smile:
July 4, 2002 4:06:00 PM

Quote:
Yet you can argue here up and down how in some applications AMD is better.....Just to see AMD win in something. Like Price/Performance....which is laughable,



In his first post he derides amd fans for doing exactly what hes doing labeling them as fanboys, this is what I called him on, its hyprocasy pure and simple. He derided amd on its advantage calling it laughable, the same actions he prescribes amd fanboys do.(deriding intels strengths). It isnt about which chip has which strengths, its about him deriding one of amds strengths in the same manner he proclaims to dislike amd fans deriding intels. That is what makes him a hypocrite.


:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 4:13:54 PM

Well truth has it intel chips may clock very high, but they have to run that high to perform the same as an AMD chip, seriously. IF an AMD would run at 2.8GHz you don't think it'd score higher than the pentium?

I have no clue how to people liking AMD chips hurts the compnay. They perform very well for the money and intel's cost alot more and have to run at higher clocks to perform the task. WHOOOPIE? AMD is not making money because no one besides tech freaks really know who they are. Does anyone actually think normal people come to a forum like this? No, only tech freaks. With big company's, when it comes to deciding what processor to get the answer in intel, why? AMD is really still unknown. I swear to god no matter what channel I watch or listen to on the radio I hear or see and Intel pentium commericial playing basement jaxx where's your head at! LOL! I can't even thing of a time I saw an AMD commericial to be honest.

No one knows who they are besides people who follow technology and the only way they will get to the stature of what the freak that wrote the column wants them to be is to advertise like a mutha and drill it into people's heads who AMD is, what it makes, and how they perform and can save them money. Then when buying they'll ask, where's the AMD chip I heard of? Feedback from their customers is gold, the Tier ones may incorporate AMD when people actually ask for them. But with no one except the few knowing who they are why would they even bother hurting the special rates on pentiums they get because they're the sole CPU supplier? The customer is always right! I assure you general consumers don't come here, corporate big wigs dont come here, only tech freaks. The column was wrote to annoy and mind-boggle and start a lame ass thread like it has. Happy 4th of July ppl, and the column was crap :o ) plain and simple
July 4, 2002 4:20:11 PM

I've registered just so I can comment on the "opinion" piece by Omid Rahmat.

First of all, in the years that I've been reading Tom's Hardware, this is the worst article by ten longshots ever written here. It doesn't deserve to have been published because it makes some of the most uninformed arguments possible. Allow me to explain why.

Half of the argument is aimed at supposed "fanboys". The honest truth is that fanboyism has little to do with the reality of the corporate world. Want to call Jerry Sanders an eccentric nut who doesn't know how to run a corporation? Please go ahead. But don't go and attribute the same eccentricity that percolates down in AMD's business decisions to fanboyism. The "Challenge Facing AMD Fans" is not a challenge at all. It's an invention of fluff by the writer of the opinion piece, and a weak one at that. Maybe if your conception of the world is based solely on the number of websites or volume of posts from AMD, then that's fine, but business is business. The bulk of this business is based on major contracts with manufacturers and distributors. Intel is still largely winning that race through primarily through tactics like exclusivity agreements and major price cuts to the Dells and Gateways of the world, not primarily on technical merit (at least until recently).

Speaking of technical merit, the article speaks of how AMD is trying to bring Intel down to its level. Of course, no tangible supporting information is given in that regard, but the upcoming x86-64 processor line is a step into Intel's territory. Many OEMs have given their support of this new platform, and it has potential. The x86-64 and its support is the competitive basis and potential for AMD to getting to a competitive AMD whether you like it or not, and whether you want to see it or not.

How much potential is not known, but all these supposed "fanboys" have little to no effect in the business world. Any claims on performance are mere speculation, and that value would've been factored into AMD and Intel stock prices already by the financial analysts. Omid, it might behoove you to read a financial statement or study business strategy once in a while, rather than attribute corporate failure to a bunch of online comments and half-baked website reviews.

On a less technical note, the article is padded so badly that it makes it nearly unreadable. I had to go through it twice, and it's not for lack of ability in reading comprehension. Statements like "Momentum swings to and fro with AMD because the fanboys are inverse snobs, and fashion victims." Yes Omid, we know you can use a thesaurus and hip phrases. Thanks.

For the record, I would just like to state that I'm neither an AMD nor an Intel fan. Both have done good and bad in the market, but I will always go for the solution that makes the best price/performance criteria for my application. Competition is of the utmost importance so that Intel doesn't start dragging its heels again and charging $3000 for its consumer-level processors at launch and label them as "workstation class" to justify them. It's also necessary so that AMD can quit dragging its heels beore it sees its performance lead slowly disappear and the MHz race suddenly and mysteriously slows down.
July 4, 2002 4:27:17 PM

Im arguing the way AMD fans are jaded and fail to notice, or believe, certain things that are negative towards AMD, or favorable towards Intel. And in my argument, Im just pointing out what fanboys fail to recognize. And my opinion on Intel procs is my opinion. I just devulged my method of reaching that opinion. Describing strengths and weaknesses. I acknowlegded AMDs price performance superiority......it's obvious, and been drilled into every THG forum readers head by AMD fanboys as it is there last straw. But, ut oh, some negative comments towards AMD! I acknowledged some weakness, which in turn are also Intels strengths.....You can argue the other end if you wish. In fact I encourage you to point out weaknesses that would make me want to buy an AMD chip. That's all. You have no argument here, I am no hypocrate. Fanboys will continue to invent ways to make what they love look better than the "opposition". I just state facts. Im sorry, Mat, that Intels chips are currently better in certain ways to AMDs. Get over it...........please.

I sold my sig for $50.
July 4, 2002 4:29:53 PM

Whoa,

I've been reading Tom's Hardware for several years now and all power to them, but where did this article come from?

Honestly, the author must have been stiffed by AMD (or their fanboys) in some way as I don't feel that he presented much evidence (if any) to back what he was pushing in that article.

Granted, AMD hasn't got the marketing muscle that Intel has, but still, where did this article come from? AMD fanatics ruining AMD? Turning them into Apple? 3dfx? I'm still not clear as to how he made such a large leap and total generalization.

I have to admit, I have switched over to AMD since the release of the Athlon (Thunderbird), from a long stretch of Intel fandom, dating back to the days of the 8086 back in the 80's. This was only due to Intel sitting on their laurels, content with the milking of the Pentium 2 and 3 (and my wallet). I liken this to what 3dfx did with their Voodoo 3 chipset and what lead them to their ultimate demise, more than what AMD has doing over past couple years.

I do admit that lately, Intel has woken up from their slumber and have started to make things happen with their latest line of 2+ GHz Pentium4's (and subsequent regaining of the outright-performance crown) which MAY have me swing back over to their side, which I might add that I may never have left if it weren't for that whole Rambus debacle.

In response to the fact that AMD fans don't have any money to support their mouths, I'm not sure where he got this idea from, but I'm pretty sure that my switch from buying an Intel processor every 3-6 months to an AMD processor instead, is proof enough. I do have to say that I have not encountered these "fanboys" he speaks of, perhaps they are constantly bantering on this messageboard (this is my first post), but he makes me feel that he is talking about the legitimate AMD buyer, which I am.

And finally, regarding the claim that AMD is not competitive. I'd have to beg to differ, had they not exceeded Intel's stranglehold, no one (that is an enthusiast) would have switched over, and we'd all have Rambus jammed down our throats and our wallets would be lighter than ever because of it. But fortunately, AMD has become a small, but legitimate contender and I don't think anyone could disagree the market has never had such competition before now.

This article was very troubling to me, and trust me, I am not the type of guy that walks around chanting "GO AMD GO, AMD #1". I have been an avid vistor to this website for many years and have always had great respect for all Dr.Pabst has done for us. But I feel that this AMD-bashing really does not reflect well on the credibility of Tom's Hardware.

Lastly, to Omid, it is one thing to have free speech and use it in your column, but it is an entirely different thing to damage Tom's years of hard work and credibility with it.

I feel Tom should have long, hard look at how far he will allow his writers go. I think I speak for most readers when I say that it casts an odd light on the objective nature and capability of this site when such an "extremist" column is published.

Thank you.
July 4, 2002 4:35:23 PM

Quote:
Im sorry, Mat, that Intels chips are currently better in certain ways to AMDs. Get over it...........please.


Now your trying to make it look like I am against you cause you said intel chips were better in some ways, lol.


YOu said intel chips are better in EVERY way, period, EXCEPT for price/performance which is LAUGHABLE.


You did EXACTLY what you claim amd fans are fanboys for, which is deriding the competitions strength(or ignoring it), while tauting your chips strengths.


YOu are a hypocrite and its plainly obvious in this case, maybe you can quickly edit your posts and make it look otherwise like you just did in the heatspreader discussion a minute ago.



:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 4:35:26 PM

StandardCell: Exactly what I'm talking about, I couldn't agree with you more. Nice to see I'm not the only one troubled by the nature of this article, I also registered to the message board strictly to raise my concerns about this.
July 4, 2002 4:35:35 PM

your point? intel's current top chip outruns amd's by a good spread, is it enough to justify the extra cost? that's up to each consumer to decide for themselves. personally, the whole "they have to run at a higher clock" to compete statement is utter crap. you can say, well amd has to cheat and make their cpu do more work per clock in order to compete. i didn't know there were ground rules for constructing a cpu. either way, the bottom line is performance, performance, performance. intel was smart, they know how ignorant their target costumers are and played right to it. with people today, especially the kids, in a mindset that they need and want it right this second, do you honestly think the average joe would research and see how amd does infact hold it's own to intel? nope. i applaud intel for realizing this basic function of humans and exploiting it. you don't make money anymore in the business world by being the honest and having morals and values. and don't start with these "if", "but what if", "but" statements. they are pointless and do nothing to help a situation.

the world looks a lot better using a glidecam :smile:
July 4, 2002 4:37:36 PM

i think what he was trying to say, is that certain people that have a liking for amd make such a big deal about the price/performance issue, that they lose site of what their actually talking about.

the world looks a lot better using a glidecam :smile:
July 4, 2002 4:48:05 PM

he put those words in caps? i didn't see it as that absurd or shocking of a statement. but with those words emphasized like that, it has a different effect.

in his mind, the price/performance thing maybe laughable, so that makes him a fanboy? so if that's not an issue for some people, then what else is there to sway someone to get an amd chip?

also who said it, being "pro" for something doesn't mean you're "anti" something else. to me that seems like the distinguishing feature between someone that thinks one chip is better for him and a fanboy.

the world looks a lot better using a glidecam :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mbetea on 07/04/02 01:00 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 4, 2002 5:03:34 PM

My VIA KM266 based board works flawlessly. Not a glitch, not a hiccup, not a crash. I find your hypocracy humorous to say the least. Basically it goes like this (according to what you've said)

If you think AMD is a better purchase you're an AMD fanboy. If you think Intel is a better purchase you're a *realist*

LOL

Mark-

<font color=blue>When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!</font color=blue>
July 4, 2002 5:07:58 PM

I don't see why you guys are perpetuating this discussion.

The original topic of the thread was to find out where
the author of the column was coming from, which up until
this point has not been answered.
July 4, 2002 5:16:37 PM

nice, well written response, as with StandardCell. I like it!

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kurokaze on 07/04/02 01:17 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 4, 2002 5:18:14 PM

well to be honest, that question probably hasn't been answered cause: a) noone's cared to ask it. b) noone gives a shitt. c)noone gives a shitt.

also, it seems that you can't have an opinion about something without having to back it up or whatever throughout 3 pages of a thread.

the world looks a lot better using a glidecam :smile:
July 4, 2002 5:18:47 PM

Led has in no way said anything hypocritical. In fact Matisaro has not only exposed himself as a fanboy but also as a lame debater. Very convienent of you to grab one line
"Like Price/Performance....which is laughable" and leave out the rest "especially in an enthusiasts hardware forum where performance should take precedance every time." Then you proceeded to attack him saying he was a hypocrite becasue he didnt address the Price/Performance advantage AMD clearly has, which he also admited in a latter post. If you are talking about which chip is better PRICE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT which is why it is laughable. When you buy product A because product B is more expensive that has nothing to do with which product is better. Product A could very well be the better between the two which would make it a great deal, but price has nothing and let me say this again nothing to do with a better product thats just trying to get the most bang for your buck which is great but as LED said what besides Price/Performance does AMD have? if the answer is nothing then your just being cheap (which isnt a bad thing you have every right to get the most out of your dollar you earn it) I just hope what you settle with is a good product and both chips are good IMO.
July 4, 2002 5:31:33 PM

Vulture you apparently missed the point...and the reason why Mat has mentioned that several times...because LED has disingenuously made Intel Fanboy like comments and claims to NOT be a fanboy, but when other people make comments in support of AMD he calls them Fanboys.

Now, as for other advantages AMD has...

Far better FPU
SSE2 is still not broadly supported so is a marginal advantage to have IMHO. However, as more software adds SSE2 support it will become an overal performance enhancement. I don't expect it, though, in mainstream apps for another 12 months.

So add the far superior FPU notch to the AMD advantage. Heck, add the shorter pipeline as P4's longer pipeline, while it helps P4 clock higher, really hurts with misredicts.

Mark-

<font color=blue>When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!</font color=blue>
July 4, 2002 5:37:27 PM

This finger pointing and calling people "fanboy" is laughable.

Price\performance is an important criteria even in an enthusiast's hardware forum for selecting which component to buy. How often have you seen a thread on this forum asking for advice for a system without a budget. I can think of only a couple of them.

As far as Mat being an AMD fanboy is concerned. He has on numerous ocassions recommended Intel to people who overclock.

"Just the facts ma'am"<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Siddhartha on 07/04/02 01:43 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 4, 2002 6:00:49 PM

Umm why do you keep saying you "have no time for hypocrites", yet you keep replying to him? So does that make you a hypocrit, or just someone who really does have the time on his hands?
July 4, 2002 6:02:11 PM

Humm... gotta love it when columns flair up the forums. I often think back to the famous "My Son's a Hacker!" funny column (not from here, however). Or possibly, just possibly, THG's previous Column "Nvidia buys AMD!" Quite a humorous column.

Anyway, to the ORIGINAL question of this thread, your answer has been creating itself. Yet another "Intel/AMD/anti-hypocrits" flame-war has blown up, and people are doing comparisons, rather than respond to the column or the thread's question. Gotta love reading these things sometimes, for that reason is why this column was put up. The threadwars have been getting a bit...much.

Then again... I have to ask, who here took the column seriously, and who here read it for what it was?

--Silphion

Forums: 100 readers, 3 posters—and that's on a good day!
July 4, 2002 6:04:39 PM

Quote:
in his mind, the price/performance thing maybe laughable, so that makes him a fanboy? so if that's not an issue for some people, then what else is there to sway someone to get an amd chip?


No but him deriding pro amd people for downplaying intels strengths and saying that makes them fanboys, while in the next sentence doing exactly the same thing does.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 6:05:24 PM

Quote:
My VIA KM266 based board works flawlessly. Not a glitch, not a hiccup, not a crash. I find your hypocracy humorous to say the least. Basically it goes like this (according to what you've said)

If you think AMD is a better purchase you're an AMD fanboy. If you think Intel is a better purchase you're a *realist*

LOL


Zenegos summed it up perfectly, thats EXACTLY what I read too.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 6:07:30 PM

You registered just to post that?

LOL

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 4, 2002 6:41:37 PM

OK, well I really think that this should end. I see why Fatburger left.

Ok both AMD and Intel have strong points and weak points and when kurokaze brought this article to my attention, I thought it was going to be about the people who go against AMD for no reason. (by reading the title) After reading the article, I felt a bit aggressive towards the article writer because many of the things he said were untrue. Some of the stuff is perfectly true like Intel possessing many advantages and I'm not one to argue. Many times I've stated how Intel is superiour. I've also stated how AMD is superiour also. I listen to people's opinions, but some peoples' opinion, I cannot accept.

AMD was and still is the underdog and for once, with Athlon, they were able to take a performance lead, which was a great feat. I mean tell me did you really expect that after seeing the Athlon, Intel was gonna sit on their hands and watch their market share slip? No. They fought back with a hugely superiour clock speed and made up the difference and more. I compliment AMD for having been able to perform so well, and even now, AMD is a great choice for many people. It all comes down to what you're going to do.

As Mat said, Overclocking, get Intel, Stock speeds, get AMD and that is very true. Most people don't want to overclock for one reason or another and AMD may be a great company for thier needs. It's obvious without overclocking, AMD chips do outperform their counterpart in the Intel product line. Now with overclocking, Intel chips (NW) can usually easily outperform the counterpart in AMD. So, for people who don't want to overclock and have a pretty modest budget, then they should go for AMD. If they want a cheap chip and they don't mind overclocking, then Intel is probably the best way to go.

Now Intel does have the highest performing chip out there right now, but does that mean that Intel is just so much better than AMD, no. In that way they are, but in others they aren't at all. Hammer may take back the performance lead, although I'm not so sure, and plus even if they do, Intel will hit back, just like they did with NW. Intel will never let AMD out of its reach, unless something catastrophic happens. Intel's pricing has always been a little weird. Even though the higher-end products do warrant a premium, the premium is more often than not way too much. Think about it. A P4 2.53GHz is priced at about $630. A AthlonXP2200+ is prices at $220. That's 1/3 of the cost yet, the performance difference is only abour 10-15% and I really don't think that's worth the money. For someone who just absolutely needs the best and has loads of money to fork out, go for it I say, but for the average buyer, I don't think they'd be getting a 2.53 anytime soon.

So in the end, Intel and AMD will both have their customer bases not only because they like the name, but also because of thier performance and their price. Many people who are looking for good performance, but only have a limited amount to spend don't even know of AMD, and therefore, they go with Intel. I mainly pointed out AMD's strengths, cause I think we all know Intel's, so don't think I'm an AMD "fanboy". I'm definitely not. I used to love Intel and hate AMD chips, but after joining this forum, I've seen what AMD chips can do and that they do offer a better deal than Intel in some cases.

So in closing, I hope that this reply ends this thread. I hate seeing people bash each other, just because of their opinions. It's just that some opinions can't be respected.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 4, 2002 7:17:50 PM

read the forums. Any mention about your opinion of how AMD sucks for example and these people get very very vicious. I mean scary vicious. I'm talkin, dude seek therapy kind of viciousness.

Just read the posts. ANy mention of likeing Intel they either completely ignore or attack you. Never once thinking and seeing your point of view.

The article is right if you open your mind.

I've been saying it for awhile. Stop loving a company so much! It IS quite icky and to be frank it is very disturbing to "support" a company that badly. A company is just there to make a buck and keep the world economy go round, thats all.

It's funny to because as soon as i mentioned i bought an intel because i wasn't happy with AMD was providing, i got called a troll and whatnot? It's sick and disturbing to love a company so much that you're willing to attack someone over it. It's bad.

I said it once and i'll say it again, I favor NO company.
They are out to make money thats all.


<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
July 4, 2002 7:58:23 PM

Anyway I see it, the article still disses some of us. Even though I'm not favorable, to AMD, I don't think it's fair to write such an article. Think about it. If they wrote an article about about Intel trolls and such, even though they specifically say "trolls", you'd think that they're dissing you. That's waht I got. I would never choose one company over the other just because I like one company better than the other. It all comes down to what I think is worth it. I'm not a vicious AMD activist or anything. I only try to point out that AMD is not all bad. I've clearly pointed out the advantages of both companies, so it'd be pratically impossible to call me a fanboy or a troll.

Also Skater, even though you're a respected member and such, I dunno how much we can trust your opnions anymore. After the bitter departure of your AMD system, it seems like you've supported Intel a lot more. I've not had one problem with my 3 Intel machines, but yet, I'm not going to stick with Intel if AMD can give me something better. I know it may be hard to support a company that gave you quite a bit of trouble, but it doesn't mean that it's all bad either. I know after I got my Radeon8500LE, I supported ATi a lot more and I even remember that I kept up the statement that the R8500 equals in performance a Ti4200, but after some deep thinking and such, I realized I was just kidding myself. I therefore gave in that the Ti4200 is basically just a superiour card right now.

I'm pretty sure that if you were given the choice of an AMD and an Intel system right now, you'd choose the Intel one cause you've had a bad experience with AMDs.

:smile: Falling down stairs saves time :smile:
July 4, 2002 8:01:23 PM

Often many are thinking the price schemes from their region or country are the same elsewhere. Nobody realizes Canadian pricing makes a HUGE difference in us aware consumers of this forum.

You Chuck would know this and relate easily however:

An AthlonXP 1700+, outperforms the 1.8A and competes a 2GHZA, yet it costs 150$ CDN. Now the P4 1.8A costs 350$ CDN. Lemme ask you people, how can price/performance NOT matter here!
The P4 2.53GHZ is a whopping 1050$ CDN on usual stores, at best 1000$. The XP2200 should be around 450$ at most or less. The XP 1700+ Tbred should soon be able to OC well, up to XP2400 speeds. So that makes a competing chip for 1/10 of the price nearly.

I do agree the article was just not understandable, and I could not get why was it made. In any case, IMO guides are THG's strengh, not reviews.

--
:smile: Intel and AMD sitting under a tree, P-R-O-C-E-S-S-I-N-G! :smile:
!