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why over clock?

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July 6, 2002 11:40:32 AM

What the hell is it with this over clocking. 10fps more in a game which your eyes can't see? A little warmer? 200mhz to 400mhz more. Oh wow That not much speed here. Mybe When the p2 was out that was great. I tried overclocking on my amd 1800. Ran it at 2000 + In winter time I had both windows open. It made a great heater. Done it with a intel 2.0 to 2.4 another great heater. Notice Crap. Amd system was alittle warmer. Intel it became unstable. All I can say overclocking is like oh well in my book.

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a c 159 à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 6, 2002 12:14:47 PM

I never had much luck overclocking an xp, but the P4 runs great. You need to tweak the memory settings to get the most out of your p4. I also inserted 2 u shaped wires into the socket to increase the default cpu vcore from 1.44 to 1.71. Cpu temp only went from 50 to 53 celcius (I keep my room at 85 f). Running a 2.0 at 2666 with the 4:5 ratio and memory timings on fast. Very stable, and I don't need sandra or any other benchmarks to tell my system is running faster.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 6, 2002 1:15:39 PM

Some of the newer games are very taxing on older systems. Overclocking allows me to run all settings at max detail and still get good frame rates while hosting a multiplayer game.
Before overclocking framerates would drop at times and make the game stutter ocassionally.
This will get you killed in Giants, Jedi Knigkt 2. Diablo2 etc.........
On Mad Onion my score was 8600+ before overclocking, And 10043 after overclocking video and cpu. Avery nice Improvement. Now my P3 1.26 performs the same as a Northwood 2.0a or Athlon 2000+ at stock speeds.

And I had loads of fun lapping cores Upgrading H/S. making custom vent ducts for the cpu heat. Chopping holes in my case for more less noisey fans.

And then the added bragging rights of a cheap system that kicks ass. Haven't looked in a few days but my last benchmarks put me in as the 2nd fastest P3 on all of MAD ONION 3dM2K1se.

I aint signing nothing!!!
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July 6, 2002 1:21:51 PM

your right
CPU power is rapidly exceeding anything the "average user" could possibly want...
and as time goes buy % OC's will get smaller...
fortunately with rare exceptions (1.6A)

So I fixed my BIG PC problem by pressing the reset button. I'm not a moron am i? :lol: 
July 6, 2002 2:17:58 PM

My P4 2.26GHz can probably handle anything I want it to do, including video editing, <b><i>for now</b></i>. In a few months, more complex games and apps will come out and I'll eventually buy something my PC can't handle at stock. I know the 2.26GHz P4 has a lot of overclocking potential (up to 1GHz more). With a moderate overclock, my P4 will last me a few extra months and I may decide to skip the ClawHammer for a later revision in late 2003 or 2004.

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
a c 80 à CPUs
a c 205 K Overclocking
July 6, 2002 3:03:30 PM

Maybe its a habit or addiction, or maybe some of us just can't get past the Hot Rod days of our lives, with Headers, Dual 4Barrel Carbureators, High Rise Intakes, More power OOOH YEAH. Maybe we need to start Overclockers Anonymous, as for myself my machine is overclocked right now, and I'm keeping it that way, because I've stumbled on the perfect settings for everything I'm running, its more stable and solid than the standard settings performed at. Theres + and - factors in every piece of computer hardware manufactured its just a matter of finding the proper threshold without using it as an alternate home heating source. And sure we're shortening the life of it but do you really think with technological changes happening as fast as they are, that our Top of the line machines will not be Dinosaurs in less than two years, so how long do you really expect your present setup to last. There is a difference between finding that perfect sweet spot and everything going up in smoke. Have a good day!

You never know what you can do until you try.
July 6, 2002 4:55:16 PM

I think you hit the nail on the head. For me it was hot rods and crotch rockets. Eventually you have to grow up. :frown: I think it's also the tinkering and tweaking that's half the fun. So for now I'll just overclock my P4. Perhaps someday I'll have a 10 second turbocharged Vtec in my garage.

To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
a c 80 à CPUs
a c 205 K Overclocking
July 6, 2002 6:01:17 PM

Right On Dude!

You never know what you can do until you try.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 6, 2002 6:18:22 PM

I do a lot of video recompiling. You do notice whether a video takes an hour, or 45 minutes, to process.

<font color=blue>At least half of all problems are caused by an insufficient power supply!</font color=blue>
a c 80 à CPUs
a c 205 K Overclocking
July 7, 2002 1:56:12 AM

Yeah you'll see a big difference in that area especially if you have multiple videos to compile.

You never know what you can do until you try.
July 7, 2002 2:36:43 AM

it's also the fact that you can get somthing for nothing.
July 7, 2002 2:53:25 AM

It makes AMD more competative with Intel using higher FSBs. My AXP "1800+" overclocked to 1666Mhz with 166Mhz FSB competes very nicely with the newer Northwood B's.

Almost forgot. Intel, when overclocked to crazy speeds (usually around 2.9 or 3.0Ghz), the Pentium 4's can pull away from AMD easily then. I just am happy with my overclocked Athlon. Runs cool and is fast and stable

"When there's a will, there's a way."

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Quetzacoatl on 07/06/02 10:55 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 7, 2002 3:48:40 AM

I do agree with a new(ish) system there is no point to overclocking to play games, but if you're doing extensive number crunching and you had a chance to do it 20% faster, wouldn't you jump at that chance?


Another way to look at it: I drove ~1800km today (Halifax -> Toronto). If I drove the whole way at 100km/h it would have taken about 18 hours. I decided to "overspeed", and managed to average about 125km/h (which let me shave four hours off the total trip time).

- JW
July 7, 2002 3:51:38 AM

Overclocking allows you to play games at higher frames per second, and at higher resolutions, you need as much power as possible, especially if using 32 bits.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 7, 2002 10:41:50 AM

since we are on the topic , i have a question about ocing my cpu.
i havn't unlocked my xp1.6 yet.. but i planning 2 do it in the next couple of days.
so my questions is that.. the xp1.6 is running at 133x10.5=1399mhz rite?
so can i make it say 150x9.3 also=1399mhz ? althought this setup produce the same mhz, what about performance wise? will this actually be faster?

i also understand that if i'm increasing the fsb, the pci slots gets overclocked as well, so if i set my fsb to 150, will i damage my pci slots and other pci components?
July 7, 2002 10:59:24 AM

lol
yes, but u can only use dividers of 0.5
i.e. 9.5 10 10.5 etc

if you have a KT333 however the 166fsb is easily obtainable...

so 8.5x166.6 = 1416. a nice combo.

So I fixed my BIG PC problem by pressing the reset button. I'm not a moron am i? :lol: 
July 8, 2002 1:12:02 AM

The problem with overclocking is with every raise of the FSB, you generally also increase the PCI and AGP speeds from the stock 33Mhz, unless your motherboard allows you to lock the ratio or have special 1/5 and 1/6 dividers. 150Mhz FSB isn't that high, and your PCI cards will probably be in spec easily. My 1800+ (1533 stock) runs steadily at 166Mhz FSB and 10 multiplier.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 8, 2002 1:41:30 AM

ic ic.... but i dont' think i can make 166 fbs with my MSI K7T266 Pro2 Ru. the highest setting is 164 , how stupid is that, and i'm only using pc2100, i'll get some pc2400 later on . the mobo isn't such a good overclocker either , next time i'll get the Epox. thanx for the help guys
July 8, 2002 2:47:07 AM

It's for bragging rights or souping up something that isn't up to the current latest and greatest. As someone else analogized with cars...when I was not able to buy the fastest and newest, my friends and I just rebuilt our engines and drive-trains to not only keep up, but beat the latest models.

In electronics and computers, however, this is like chasing your tail. Whatever you try, be it buying the latest, or overclocking, you will soon be left in the dust.I personally don't think that is very important, particularly if everything on my system is up to my standards, but that is just me.
July 8, 2002 4:00:19 AM

I was expecting everybody to say it was something like a hobbie. Bragging rights: I guess that counts too. For me, it's like "Look! I'm getting stuff I didn't pay for!"
July 8, 2002 3:03:19 PM

My answer: Because I can. So I can see how much I can squeeze out of my system.

That is a nice <b><font color=green>Garbage Can</font color=green></b> you have there!
July 8, 2002 3:50:58 PM

No offense but the majority of those games are far more taxing on your video card than your processor. And depending on how much you overclocked I highly doubt you noticed a direct difference. Maybe the memory tweaks did change things, because intel boards are known for having terrible default settings in the bios. How much did you overclock your P3. Because if you know hardware from my point of view as a computer engineer you can understand exactly what those numbers mean.

Remember your systems speed is primarily based on it's clock cycle and the bandwidth between I/O and the processor. Sadly why Mac's sometimes kill PCs. It's not there processor, it's their motherboard.

AMD realised this and if you look into their new hyper transfer modes you'll see that for a change the processor manufacturer is working with the motherboard companies and you will see a great improvement in speed, because the amount of data moved in one clock cycle will be much greater.
July 8, 2002 4:17:21 PM

dam dude you must have money up the anal hole!

My P4 2ghz O/C at 2.4 will last me for at least a few years. Only upgrade i'd consider is prescott if i need it.

<side tangent note: At 2.54ghz i can't run seti. After a few minutes it reboots. I had the voltage at 1.675 too! brought it down to 2.4 and i can lower the voltage all the way 1.55. i've been running seti for about 24 hours and no reboots so it looks stable at 2.4 This is definitly cpu limited. Oh well *shrugs* my computer works and thats all i care about>

And once i upgrade to the radeon R300 i don't think i'll have any problems running any 3d rendering programs or video encoding stuff for a long time.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 9, 2002 2:38:24 AM

I'm running a P3 1.26 @1583 166fsb memory at 3/2/2/7/9 with forced AGP4x and forced 4/way interleave.

Video is a G4 4200 @285/530 . There is only one other P3 to break 10000 in 3dm2k1se so far. Maybe a few more will with the P3 1.4 overclocked.

I aint signing nothing!!!
July 9, 2002 11:40:05 AM

I love it when people prove my point. Do you honestly think it was that little processor jump you made or do you think it has something to do with a GeForce 4 Video Card that I doubt many people have in their PIII.
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
July 9, 2002 12:29:10 PM

Actually I think it was a combination of all things in my system.

The 166fsb makes a lot of difference .

Since your name contains "diablo" you probably play the gamee. And you should also know that diablo is very memory and hard drive intensive. The game constantly writes to the hard drive. Constantly, In fact so much that you can crash,shut down with a power failure,ETC.... and not lose any game info. The item you just picked up 5 seconds ago will still be in your inventory when you restart the game.

And yes I can tell a difference. My game does not "hickup" or pause as much or as long when overclocked. It almost never happens when playing single player. But when hosting a game it becomes more apparent. My personal computer is the fastest one on our 6 computer lan at home so I allways host. Or if I'm not playing someone will use my comp and host.

There are quite a few P3 systems on mad onion wit a Geforce 4. Although probably only a few as tweeked as mine. Most people do not know that the 815 chipset turns off 4/way interleave and AGP4x above 140fsb,but it can be reenabled with software. I use STUFF PCR for this "problem".

And as the saying goes "Opinions are like assholes, Everybody has one and everyone's stinks but your own.

I aint signing nothing!!!
July 9, 2002 1:52:20 PM

why don't you take your system back down to 133 fsb and test at that speed. And lets see the difference.

Those who spout worthless opinion annoy me. Provide me with facts and I will be interested. I am going to build an exact replica of your system for testing purposes. What is the hardware configuration. Oh and by the way someone mentioned using the Sandra test in here. Don't ever do that. Sandra sucks. Use something that runs code from actual programs and times code execution. I wrote a program to do this for the servers here, but I am sure there is plenty of freeware programs out there that do the same for PCs
July 9, 2002 1:59:04 PM

Why are you flaming Rick, he's telling you the truth. Overclocking yields tangible gains, and often push the hardware beyond it's base power. Sisoft doesn't suck, it just provides very gritty results that must be taken with a grain of salt. There are other programs such as 3D Mark 2001, which he did mention. A Pentium3 system getting above 10k is simply amazing, proving it still has some life in it. Why would he take the speed back down, the whole purpose of overclocking is to gain speed, which you obviously don't get.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 9, 2002 2:07:01 PM

I am not flaming him I am simply trying to prove a point. It doesn't take much time to take the speed of the fsb back down and test it. There are factors in overclocking that people don't seem to comprehend about how the speed of a computer is really determined and I don't want the youth out there to think that cranking up their fsb will make a big difference in there system. I want specs on the system and I will do the tests myself if I must if he is unwilling to take 10 minutes, notch down the system test it, and then take it back up to where he likes it.

To me, overclocking is like putting a turbo on a Honda Civic, if you want a sports car, start with one, because 110 HP going up to 150 HP just isn't going to compete with my WS6.
July 9, 2002 2:17:19 PM

Quote:
There are factors in overclocking that people don't seem to comprehend about how the speed of a computer is really determined and I don't want the youth out there to think that cranking up their fsb will make a big difference in there system



so, you're saying there is no big difference between a Pentium 4 1.6a with a 100Mhz FSB and a Pentium 2.56a with a 166Mhz FSB? Pentium's are completely reliant on increasing the FSB to overclock, not only does it increase their memory bandwidth, but it also increases the overall speed of the processor. AMD, you can increase the multiplier if you unlock, but it's better to increase the FSB. For both companies, the extra memory bandwidth improves speed more than just increasing the multiplier, but more noticeable in the Pentium 4's (which need memory bandwidth). A base Pentium 3 system with a Geforce 4 does not get anywhere near 10k, even the newer Tualatins with 512kb L2. Overclocking just maxes out a systems capabilities. *shrugs* for example, my stock 1800+ get's raped by most of Intel's higher end processors, but, after increased the FSB, and lowered the multiplier, at 1666Mhz with a FSB of 166Mhz, it is much more competative. If you'd like to test that to a base system, I am running a Geforce 2 Pro overclocked, and an Athlon XP 1800+ on a Soyo Sy-kt333 ultra.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 9, 2002 2:26:24 PM

Yes thank you for taking what I said entirely out of context. Did you know that there is actually a difference in how those two processors actually transfer information, that is why one is sold at 166mhz and the other isn't. Anyhow. I don't want to hear another work untill I either get exact specs on the original system I was talking about or the person that owns it runs the tests. Then the proof will be there.

Do not tell me about bandwidth and why it increases the speed I know that very well. I have an intimate knowledge of such things, so just out of curiousity run the tests.
July 9, 2002 2:29:37 PM

And just out of "curiousity", you know for a fact you have the entire system he has, just so you can "run the tests".

Quote:
Did you know that there is actually a difference in how those two processors actually transfer information, that is why one is sold at 166mhz and the other isn't


No, you're wrong. They transfer informatoin the same way, the higher FSB just has higher Mhz, or a greater bus width (or bandwidth technically speaking) to transfer information, therefore making it faster (duh, even you should get that).



"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 9, 2002 2:38:58 PM

I see this is a problem for you to understand. The reason why you buy one processor with a suggested fsb of one speed and a suggested fsb of another is actually based on a test run as the processor came off the line. Because the chip press is not perfect and the copper is not always exactly the same. Not in the respect as to what kind of copper it is, but how the molecules within the copper wiring lined up. This is why some processors are faster than others even though they came off the same line. It's a simple matter of resistance in most cases. I understand that increasing your fsb helps.

As for me knowing I have the same system. I do not at this time. When he gives me the specs, I will buy the parts, the exact motherboard, same bios version, same OS everything identical than I will run some tests, I have found that most people that rank the speed of their system are actually lying or have changed something they are not mentioning. Anyhow, lets have the facts not opinions.

Remember this is a why overclock thread, I am arguing that sometimes it is more important to play with the bios and hardware integration than it is to overclock.
July 9, 2002 2:48:30 PM

Quote:
The reason why you buy one processor with a suggested fsb of one speed and a suggested fsb of another is actually based on a test run as the processor came off the line

That is the manufacturers intended goal, to deliver a specific product to and end user. Some products are tested at a higher speed, then lowered, which is called down binning. The most popular example is the P4 1.6a, in actuality, a 2.0a. Overclocking taps it's potential, allowing it to go higher. Obviously, this voids the warranty, but you get more for your money.

Quote:
Because the chip press is not perfect and the copper is not always exactly the same. Not in the respect as to what kind of copper it is, but how the molecules within the copper wiring lined up. This is why some processors are faster than others even though they came off the same line. It's a simple matter of resistance in most cases.

You probably didn't know this, but not all processors use copper connections, some use aluminum. The chips electrical resistance plays far less of a role than the actual pipeline and memory configuration of the CPU.

Quote:
As for me knowing I have the same system. I do not at this time. When he gives me the specs, I will buy the parts, the exact motherboard, same bios version, same OS everything identical than I will run some tests, I have found that most people that rank the speed of their system are actually lying or have changed something they are not mentioning.

I'd laugh my head off if you take the time to go buy the parts just to "run the tests", as you said before. And let me guess, you plan on returning the parts for a refund, after you are done, "running the tests."

Quote:
Remember this is a why overclock thread, I am arguing that sometimes it is more important to play with the bios and hardware integration than it is to overclock.


BIOS tweaking and modifying the integration is part of overclocking. It affects the memory, and most of the overclocking is done through the BIOS. Didn't you know that? My mistake, you're too worried about buying the exact same parts, and "running the tests".



"When there's a will, there's a way."

Had a quote bracket messed up, changed it<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Quetzacoatl on 07/09/02 10:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 9, 2002 3:06:20 PM

Well don't we have some antagonistic people out there. Actually copper makes a huge difference you idiot. What do you think is the primary difference in the Northwood chip. Going to copper and a smaller die. Copper allows them to go to this smaller die because it offers less resistance than any alloy made. This less resistance allows more power to be transfered through a smaller wire. Did you completely skip your course on super conductors when you were in college to become a computer engineer. I didn't. If were entailing all bios tweeks into over clocking that is a bit general over clocking means to raise the clock speed above it's suggested rate. So unless you are adding meaning to the word then what I was talking about does not include that. And as for building another computer, why is that stupid, if it doees run that fast with what he says he has on it then it can become part of my cluster, even though having an odd box in a cluster isn't the best for overall performance it will still greatly increase it's speed.

And no I will not return the parts for a refund. I am a licensed reseller I do not have to purchase the parts in the first place I will build it as a demo.

Those who want to test and enquire are always hated by those who don't want the truth to get out. Quit crying and give me the specs on the box.
July 9, 2002 3:19:55 PM

You do realize the Pentium 3 Tualatin and the Pentium 4 Willamette were copper. The Pentium 3 coppermine was aluminum interconnects. Copper doesn't allow for smaller dies, it is just a more efficient conductor.

Quote:
Did you completely skip your course on super conductors when you were in college to become a computer engineer. I didn't.


No, actually i'm going to be a Junior in High School. I learned all of this by reading technical information from company websites, FAQ's, and listening to people whom I admire such as Fatburger and Crashman from this website.

Quote:
If were entailing all bios tweeks into over clocking that is a bit general over clocking means to raise the clock speed above it's suggested rate. So unless you are adding meaning to the word then what I was talking about does not include that. And as for building another computer, why is that stupid, if it doees run that fast with what he says he has on it then it can become part of my cluster, even though having an odd box in a cluster isn't the best for overall performance it will still greatly increase it's speed.


Are you even from America, because your english is terrible. Some of your sentences make little sense as well.

Quote:
Those who want to test and enquire are always hated by those who don't want the truth to get out. Quit crying and give me the specs on the box.



That you're saying me building several computer systems, for both myself and some friends doesn't cound as testing and inquiring (enquire is not a word)? I'm not crying, i'm setting a newbie like you straight, although in this case, I highly doubt you'll ever be straight. How am I supposed to give you the specs on the box I don't own. You have to ask Rick for his computer, not me. But obviously, you just don't get it.


"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 9, 2002 3:39:03 PM

Am I even an american? Actually I have lived here all my life, but are you trying to bash people from other countries now? Because I have a lot of Japanese friends that would just love to inform you of how many of your processors are designed by asian engineers. You are a Junior in High school. Great reading someone elses material and regurgatating it then thinking you are intelligent.

When you said "You do realize the Pentium 3 Tualatin and the Pentium 4 Willamette were copper. The Pentium 3 coppermine was aluminum interconnects. Copper doesn't allow for smaller dies, it is just a more efficient conductor."

You do realise that you made an idiot of yourself. The fact that it is a more effecient conductor is why they can make smaller dies. If you want to talk to a friend of mine that works at Fort Benning with some of the most advanced technologies in superconductors and computer research in the world. We both went to Cal Tech together and he could do a little more to help you understand what you think you know.

My original post was posed to Rick, I don't know how you got involved in this communication. Does your mom let you stay on the computer this long? Are you old enough to be at 209.132.86.33 looking at porn.

Kid stop arguing, because it isn't an argument. I simply was trying to inform people that if they choose specific hardware combinations as far as specific video cards with specific motherboards, certain hardware actually will run faster together than others based on how the cards in the system allocate their memory.

Plus as I always say. If you want a fast computer make the biggest upgrade you can run linux.
July 9, 2002 3:54:35 PM

So being 17 makes me a kid eh? Interesting. Porn? Oh hell yeah, of course I look at that. Mom let me stay on? What, you're mom still watches you or something? I'm allowed to use my computers and cable modem whenever I feel like it.

Quote:
Plus as I always say. If you want a fast computer make the biggest upgrade you can run linux.


Your first sentence wasn't complete, and your second sentence isn't proper english.



"When there's a will, there's a way."
July 9, 2002 4:59:18 PM

"So being 17 makes me a kid eh?"
If your going to correct my english at least make sure yours is also correct. You needed a commah before the "eh?". Otherwise your sentence flows improperly.

Such as.

Huh, so commenting on someones grammar is what nerdy 16 year olds do these days.

Oh, and how many times have you actually designed a system board? Or do you just buy parts and put them together? Do you even really understand how the whole thing works?

If you have any understanding of electricity and how it applies to technology inform the class why silicon is reaching it's limits and future super computers will no longer use it.
July 9, 2002 6:18:53 PM

Quote:
Well don't we have some antagonistic people out there. Actually copper makes a huge difference you idiot. What do you think is the primary difference in the Northwood chip. Going to copper and a smaller die. Copper allows them to go to this smaller die because it offers less resistance than any alloy made. This less resistance allows more power to be transfered through a smaller wire. Did you completely skip your course on super conductors when you were in college to become a computer engineer. I didn't. If were entailing all bios tweeks into over clocking that is a bit general over clocking means to raise the clock speed above it's suggested rate. So unless you are adding meaning to the word then what I was talking about does not include that. And as for building another computer, why is that stupid, if it doees run that fast with what he says he has on it then it can become part of my cluster, even though having an odd box in a cluster isn't the best for overall performance it will still greatly increase it's speed.


I work in the semi conductor industry and you are wrong diablo.


PS: at all stock my system scores 8300 3dmark2001, at full overclock I score 10093.

Thats around 20% if you have trouble with the math, and thats free stable performance.


Run along now.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 9, 2002 6:26:55 PM

Really, you work in the industry. Who do you work for? Where did you go to grad school? This whole board is full of little script kiddies that go out and read something and then come in here not knowing what they are talking about. The thickness of a wire needed to transfer a certain voltage is dependant upon the resistance the wire creates. It is straight math.

Also, you just gave me random numbers. What stock system, with what overclock?
July 9, 2002 6:46:45 PM

I worked(unemployed at the moment) for fujitsu microelectronics, and no I did not go to grad school.

I was part of the yield enhancement team at the GMD facility in gresham oregon.

The resistance of the wire is NOT a factor in shrinking a die, you can easily have a .13 micron aluminum IC device. The copper IC device will scale further and run cooler, but it is NOT neccisary as you claim to shrink the die.

As for my system, at stock it is a gf4 ti4200, axp 1700+ 512 megs cl2.5 corsair pc2100 on an abit kg7-raid with a wd1200jb 120 gig harddrive.

Overclocked it is a 2000++(150fsb) cl2 with the 4200@330/580(as opposed to 250/500).

I get a very real and very noticable performance enhancement from overclocking, with no stability loss and no system degridation.

Overclocking is a free and easy means to gain performance, if you buy a 1.6ghz chip and it can run at 1.7ghz with a simple bios change, with no negative side effects, then why the hell not, even if you gain only .05% performance it is STILL free!





:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 9, 2002 6:48:20 PM

PS: just noticed that you asked me "where did you go to grad school" not "did you go to grad school" as I origionally thought.

You do not need to go to grad school to get into the industry, in fact many companies promote from within over freshly educated people from outside, and while college and grad school dosent hurt, it is not a strict requirement.

:wink: The Cash Left In My Pocket,The BEST Benchmark :wink:
July 9, 2002 6:54:46 PM

I tell you what put that into a .13 die and see what happens to the processor when they run it. We know what happens otherwise we wouldn't pay for copper. It's not the ability to use another metal it's what happens to the processor when you don't use copper. unemployed, huh. Sounds kind of rough. I have never had that problem.
July 9, 2002 7:07:58 PM

Quote:
tell you what put that into a .13 die and see what happens to the processor when they run it.


Ill tell you exactly what happens, the core functions faster and cooler than a .18 alum core but not as fast as a .13 copper core, it will run fine no problems at all.

Quote:
We know what happens otherwise we wouldn't pay for copper.


Amd and intel put copper in their process to increase clockspeed so they could make money, not because they couldnt make new processors with aluminum. We are not paying for copper, we are paying for higher clocked processors.

Quote:
It's not the ability to use another metal it's what happens to the processor when you don't use copper.


What happens is you have a working lower clocked processor, period.

Quote:
unemployed, huh. Sounds kind of rough. I have never had that problem.


They closed GMD, the semi industry is hurting now but I will be fine, if you want to work in this industry you will probably be laid off at least once, its a rollercoaster and anyone else in the industry will tell you so.

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July 9, 2002 7:26:37 PM

Your wrong you know that. When you put aluminum in a .13 die the processor runs too hot and is dangerous to the silicon. Guess you haven't been in the industry for a while. I work for TSMC and during initial testing the aluminum alloy could not sustain the core voltage without producing extremely high temperatures.
July 9, 2002 7:41:15 PM

Quote:
Your wrong you know that. When you put aluminum in a .13 die the processor runs too hot and is dangerous to the silicon. Guess you haven't been in the industry for a while. I work for TSMC and during initial testing the aluminum alloy could not sustain the core voltage without producing extremely high temperatures.



You have yet to comment on how thoroughly I shot down your critque of overclocking, 20% for free with no side effects smacks your assertion overclocking is bad so hard in the face I can understand why you are shifting the discussion to another area, but please, I would appreciate your thoughts on the subject of my specific overclocking results.



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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Matisaro on 07/09/02 12:49 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 9, 2002 7:57:45 PM

As for your commentary on the unworkability of aluminum in a .13 micron process, it depends on the product.


http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/2002/volume06issue0...


As you can see, flash at .13 micron is fully operational with an aluminum ic system, as I said above, copper is a better technology, and it does allow much greater scalability in device speed, but it is not a PREREQUISITE of .13 operation as you claim. That was the entire point of my post on this portion of the subject.



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July 10, 2002 1:01:38 AM

Thanks Mat, it's about time someone like you put him to sleep already. Stupid bugger was flaming for no apparent reason. Kinda like Melty with some (questionable) intelligence.

"When there's a will, there's a way."
!