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Would 1000W be enough?

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Last response: in CPUs
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July 18, 2002 1:03:50 PM

It's funny how everybody talks about PSU wattage in general, like it would give you any indication of the ability of the PSU.
Brand names and other boasting.

I once heard about a cheap HEC PSU, I checked it out on the net, listened to persons who should know about these things and then I just bought it.I've used it for a year and a half now and haven't got any problems.No bad voltage fluctuations or anything, no lockups that I couldn't track back as being software related(that means like a reset and starting fresh and having no repeating problems after that).

I've updated my system over this time with no problems.

The specs at the moment:
AMD T-bird 1.2GHz (takes almost 60W when loaded)
Maxtor D740X 80GB
Samsung 20GB
CD-rom and a burner
512MB SDR RAM
Gainward GF4200 128MB
fans (they take almost 4W when running)
SB Audigy (I wonder what that takes)

And the PSU? HEC-250LR-PT
This 250W PSU is handling this load with no problem and it's fan is absolutely noiseless.

My point here is that a 450W label on the side of the box doesn't mean a diddely sh|tt.

More about : 1000w

July 18, 2002 3:32:09 PM

I would like a 1000W PSU, except everytime I turn on the PC the lights in the neighboroughood would dim.
July 18, 2002 6:25:20 PM

Quote:
My point here is that a 450W label on the side of the box doesn't mean a diddely sh|tt.

That's easy to say when you're running a system with a very low power usage.

Try changing a few things around, such as an AXP 2000+, a RAID array of 7200RPM drives, and a VooDoo5 graphics card. Then tell me that your 250W is enough.

I had a Celeron 500 running with no case fan (just the power supply fan) 32MB of PC66, a Savage4 PCI video card, a 56K modem, onboard sound, a single hard drive, and two CD ROMs (one was a burner). The 120W power supply that it came with made it only slightly unstable. (In fact, I hadn't even realized that it was the power supply that made it unstable until after I upgraded the power supply.)

Upgrading it to 256MB of PC133 (run at PC66), adding a second hard drive, and adding a case fan made it extremely unstable. (Spontaneous reboots every 10 minutes.)

Upgrading it to a 200W power supply made it more stable than it was the day I even bought it.

A 450W label on the side of the box means that your power supply isn't going to be the weakest link. When you add components (and with RAID controllers these days, who isn't tempted to add more hard drives?) the power supply will become more and more drained. It'll generate more heat, and the power levels will fluxuate more. The more watts you have, the further from that happening you'll be.

When the power supply is pressed, fluxuations may be rare enough to not even think that it might be the power supply. You might think that Windows is just blue screening again because Windows sucks. I bet though that if you upgraded that power supply if your system blue screens every so often, that you'd notice the PC is a lot more stable there after.

Sure, not many people actually need a 450W supply. Most will get by with 250W to 300W. Those who press will want 350W. Those who OC, run dual CPUs, and/or build large RAID arrays will definately be wanting that 450W security.

It's all just a matter of common sense. Know how much power your system munches, and ensure that your power supply can provide that. Why do you think OEMs skimp so badly by putting in cheap power supplies? Because they work as long as you don't upgrade.

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
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July 19, 2002 1:26:56 AM

LOL thats exactly what happens when i power on my athlon!!!

Ego: Check
Rose hued glasses: Check
Fanboy Button: Check
CPU forum, here i come! :smile:
July 19, 2002 1:29:31 AM

how about the PSU's heat output though? i imagine your running close to the max limit of that PSU, and its pumpking out a fair amount of heat.

you are correct that the labelled wattage of a psu means bugger all.
ive seen 300W enermax units crap all over generic 350W units.

whats most important is the current ratings for the 3.3v 5v and 12v lines.

Ego: Check
Rose hued glasses: Check
Fanboy Button: Check
CPU forum, here i come! :smile:
July 19, 2002 2:17:58 AM

1000W isn't that much! Heaters consume a lot of power, even more than that!

:wink: <b><i>"A penny saved is a penny earned!"</i></b> :wink:
July 19, 2002 3:25:55 AM

I had a customer with a bad power supply. It literally exploded. In an emergency I gave her an old Power Man (I think) 235W power supply. If memory serves she had similar stuff to what you have except a TNT2 Ultra vid card, DDR Ram, and a Yamaha sound card. That was almost a year ago. It's still working just fine.

To start press any key. Where's the "any" key? --Homer Simpson.
July 19, 2002 7:30:22 AM

But it is true, the lights will dim with that much power being used. I have 1500W heater, which is the max that a power outlet can reasonably handle without burning out the neighborhood. Every time I turn it on the lights dim a bit, and every time I turn it off they go back to normal.

WE NEED MORE POWER!

This little cathode light of mine, I'm gonna let it shine!
July 19, 2002 10:22:07 AM

-----------
whats most important is the current ratings for the 3.3v 5v and 12v lines.
-----------
Exactly.Many PSU's still have only one "supply unit" for all the voltage lines.When one line gets a sudden extra load, all the other lines fluctuates for a moment,propably causing a crash.

You can have a 450W PSU, when you really need less then 300W and the 450W psu fails on you.

------------
you are correct that the labelled wattage of a psu means bugger all.
ive seen 300W enermax units crap all over generic 350W units.
------------
Exactly.
July 19, 2002 11:48:20 AM

slvr_phoenix
--------------
That's easy to say when you're running a system with a very low power usage.
--------------

Me earlier
--------------
My point here is that a 450W label on the side of the box doesn't mean a diddely sh|tt.
--------------
So, what is your point, slvr_phoenix ?
July 22, 2002 6:55:44 PM

My point was fairly obvious to anyone with even half of a clue. Run a low power system and you don't need a big PS. Run a system that sucks up the juice, and a little 250W PS will just make it a big PoS.

But hey, why take my word for it? Try it for yourself and see. Fill every IDE channel. Get a RAID PCI card and fill yet more. Put in a new Radeon 9700 in it once the card comes out. I'm sure we'll be seeing a post again sooner or later saying "Help, my system keeps crashing and rebooting!"

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
July 22, 2002 9:42:34 PM

I think you're both missing eachother's points.

I think Era's point is that the W rating isn't everything. And he's right. Brand name PSUs at the same wattage provide more power than a generic PSU. Check the Amp ratings on the PSU to see where each is rated at. You'll be quite suprised (I know I was) to see 250W PSUs that provided more power than a 300W one.

Slvr's point is that when you're running a lot of high power sucking stuff, you can need that extra power. And, it's true that when you load up the computer with extras, it needs more power, and power can become that magical stability factor that few people think about (It's easier to blame Drivers, the OS, and common scapegoat hardware).

I've spent some time reading specs off of PSUs. I know that personaly, with everything else I'm spending on my computer, it's worth it in my mind to spend the extra money on a good PSU. It can reduce heat, reduce noise, increase stability, and increase the life of my computer parts. I think the extra 20-30 is worth that. It's a matter of preference I guess though.

Don't start a <font color=red>flame war</font color=red> while immersed in <font color=orange>gasoline</font color=orange>.
July 23, 2002 5:10:16 AM

I think trying to compare power supplys by going on watts alone is like falling for the megahurtz myth. Watts is not everything. In the same line of power supplies it usually is an indication of relative performance but go comparing between different brands and it starts to mean almost nothing. My suggestion would be to spend the extra money on a good brand name power supply and get as much wattage then as you can afford (just for peace of mind and upgradability).
July 23, 2002 9:30:44 AM

slvr_phoenix
OK. In my first post I expressed my self poorly.
That got us on the wrong track.

I only wanted to say that my comp should have a 350W or 450W PSU.
That is, if I would take seriously all the crap floating on this forum.

Here are the specs again:

AMD T-bird 1.2GHz (takes almost 60W when loaded)
Maxtor D740X 80GB
Samsung 20GB
CD-rom and a burner
512MB SDR RAM
Gainward GF4200 128MB
fans (they take almost 4W when running)
SB Audigy (I wonder what that takes)
a NIC and a modem

Now should this system run stable with a 250W rated PSU?
Well in my case, it does.

And I do think I have a half a clue about these things.

Have a nice day.
a b à CPUs
July 23, 2002 10:31:51 AM

Yes you are right. A good quality 250 watt supply is better than a cheap 350 watt power supply.

Most cheap generic supplys rated at 350 watt supply arround 12 to 14 amp on the 3.3v line. Most of the wattage is on the 12v line.
In contrast a Brand name 250w or 300w can have up to 28amp on the 3.3v line.
With to two examples above thee lower wattage power supply with 28 amp on the 3.3 v line would run an Athlon but the cheap 350w with 13amp or 14amp would not.

I aint signing nothing!!!
July 23, 2002 11:39:58 AM

I was just on my knees checking the PSU "label".
It says:
3.3V_16A
5V_25A
12V_13A
3.3V&5V combined 150W
Total output 250W

Those numbers are not very impressive, but I think they are at least true.
July 23, 2002 1:00:26 PM

Quote:
I only wanted to say that my comp should have a 350W or 450W PSU.
That is, if I would take seriously all the crap floating on this forum.

Here are the specs again:

AMD T-bird 1.2GHz (takes almost 60W when loaded)
Maxtor D740X 80GB
Samsung 20GB
CD-rom and a burner
512MB SDR RAM
Gainward GF4200 128MB
fans (they take almost 4W when running)
SB Audigy (I wonder what that takes)
a NIC and a modem

The most important aspect of the PSU is the ability to maintain line voltage under a sudden heavy load. The amount of peak available power is usually not much of an issue unless you're running a server or fully loaded workstation.

250 Watts is enough for your system. Add up the power usages and see for yourself. I seem to remember that most 7200 RPM hard drives are around 10-15W each. CD drives are perhaps 5W each. Memory I'm not sure about, but can't be more than 20W. The video card may be 30W. Other cards can be generously estimated at 10W each. Adding up all your parts I get around 200W. And that's when every item in your system is under load (rarely the case).

Ritesh


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ritesh_laud on 07/23/02 08:02 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 23, 2002 1:22:06 PM

You are an #¤%&/. Did you read the thread at all?
I know that a 1200W vacuum cleaner needs 1200W to work properly.

You missed the point completely.You are an /&%¤#.

PS. Where do you jerks come from?
July 23, 2002 3:01:24 PM

Nice rig.If I was a true nerd, I might fall in love with your rig.
July 25, 2002 5:09:07 PM

<font color=blue><b>Well I'm over half way there on the power supply issue...</b></font color=blue>

Soyo KT333 Dragon Ultra (Platinum) Edition, w/ Sigma E-box painted silver w/ Testors model spray paint -Purchased
Cooler Master ATC-210 (Fog Verdant) case -Purchased
Enermax EG651P-VE (FMA) 550 watt PSU -Purchased
Cooler Master HHC-001 CPU cooler w/ a 60mm to 92mm aluminum blue anodized adapter and a sunon 92mm, 46cfm, 33dba, regular bb fan -Purchased
Enermax Multi Function Transfer Panel (silver) -Purchased
Mitsumi Floppy Drive (w/ Lian-Li Aluminum Bezel) -Purchased
Artic Silver III CPU compound -Purchased
Silver ATA 133 & Floppy Rounded Cables -Purchased
WD Hard Drive WD800JB SE w/ 8MB Buffer and Vantec HDC-502A HDD Cooler-Purchased
MS Windows XP Home (OEM) -Purchased
Adaptec Duoconnect Combo Firewire & USB 2.0 PCI Card -Purchased
Athlon XP Unlocking Kit -Purchased
ATI AIW 8500 Radeon 128MB AGP -Purchased
Logitech Cordless Freedom Optical Keyboard and Mouse Blk w/ Silver accents -Purchased
AMD Athlon XP2000+ and a aluminum blue anodized shim -Awaiting pur
Corsair CMX3000C2 512MB w/ Heat Spreaders XMS Platinum Series(rev 2.1) X 2-Awaiting pur
Pioneer A04 DVD/R/RW-Awaiting pur
Viewsonic LCD VX800 18" Monitor -Awaiting pur
TDK Tremor S150 2.1 Speakers -Awaiting pur


<font color=red><b>Wealllovedisassemblingthingstoseehowitworks,butwhowantstoputitbacktogetheragain?
July 26, 2002 11:10:03 AM

I bet you have stolen those Cables.
July 26, 2002 7:39:45 PM

Quote:
slvr_phoenix
OK. In my first post I expressed my self poorly.
That got us on the wrong track.

Quote:
Here are the specs again:

AMD T-bird 1.2GHz (takes almost 60W when loaded)
Maxtor D740X 80GB
Samsung 20GB
CD-rom and a burner
512MB SDR RAM
Gainward GF4200 128MB
fans (they take almost 4W when running)
SB Audigy (I wonder what that takes)
a NIC and a modem

Now should this system run stable with a 250W rated PSU?
Well in my case, it does.

Quote:
I only wanted to say that my comp should have a 350W or 450W PSU.
That is, if I would take seriously all the crap floating on this forum.

Perhaps <b>I</b> am somehow not making myself crystal clear? Let's try another route...

<b>YOUR SYSTEM DOES NOT USE VERY MUCH POWER AT ALL!!!!!</b>

Get it yet?

Obviously you <b>can</b> run it just fine on a 250 watt power supply. I don't think anyone would even try to debate that. According to your specs, you aren't even close to straining your power supply. Your processor is old. Your RAM isn't stunning. Your hard drives are few and simple. Your video card is the 'trimmed down' version which means that it is energy-efficient compared to better models. All in all, you have a very low-power system there.

So I ask you, who on this forum said that <b>you</b> would <b>need</b> a 350 watt power supply? Who? <b>ANYONE?</b>

You keep professing how you're so special for having a nice stable system (on such low-power parts). Big whoop. I run a system on an even smaller power supply. It's only 200 watts in fact. How? Because it's a system that uses even less power.

You claim "<font color=red>That is, if I would take seriously all the crap floating on this forum.</font color=red>" If you mean that a <i>professional</i> would recommend a power supply better than what a person initially needs, then <b>you</b> are the only one posting crap around here.

Any professional here will <i>recommend</i> more watts than needed when building a new system. Why? Not because the new system will <b>need</b> it, but because it will run quieter, run cooler, prolong the life of the parts, and allow for a path of upgradability without having to replace the power supply.

Anyone making this suggestion will <i>also</i> recommend a <i>quality name brand</i>. A <i>good</i> power supply will often run better and last longer than a generic one.

It's just plain good advice. You wouldn't hook up a 5.1 surround-sound stereo to a mono-output TV would you? It'd just be stupid. Well, so would be spending a grand or two (or more) on a new PC and then putting in the bare minimum power supply needed to run it.

So if this is the kind of advice that you consider "crap", then don't even bother trying to debate your side anymore.

However, if you would like to actually point out any specific recommendations/advice/requirements posted that are <b>real</b> "crap", then please by all means do.

Either way though, it is sufficiently obvious that your system is low-powered enough to run perfectly fine on a 250 watt power supply. So you really don't have to keep saying over and over how important this is to anything. It's meaningless.

Quote:
And I do think I have a half a clue about these things.

Matisaro would eat you alive with a statement dependant on such circular logic. It's about as logical as the bible having to be the truth because the bible says it is the truth.

Such statements just don't amount to a hill of half-digested beans. You can't profess yourself as having even half of a clue if you are the one with less than half of a clue to begin with.

If you want us to believe that you actually <i>do</i> have even half of a clue, then don't just say that you do. Convince us. To be bluntly honest, so far, you've been doing a piss-poor job of that. Perhaps though there is still hope.

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
July 26, 2002 9:21:27 PM

this goes to anybody...since this started I got a bit worried about the PSU I bought...in fact I forgot what I bought! was it 300W, 350W..........there I checked the stack and it was 400W..whew...but it's a "Future Power" brand..you think it's at least reliable or won't cheat me?

here's the rig Iam building:

Abit BD7-RAID

Intel P4 2.4GHz (400FSB) :^[

2x512MB PC2100 DDR SDRAM

80 GB Maxtor ATA133 7200 RPM
120 GB IBM 120GXP 7200 RPM

Pioneer DVD-ROM
Kenwood 72x CD-ROM
Toshiba DVD-RAM
Plextor 40x CDRW
Iomega 250 Internal Zip
Floppy


ATI Radeon AIW 8500DV 64MB
Creative Audigy Platinum
NewQ Equalizer

Lian-Li L70 Aluminum Tower Case (5 80mm fans installed)
4 round ATA100 cables in different sizes

Gigabit NIC

NEC Digital LCD 19" monitor
Logitech Cordless Freedom KB/Mouse

I sincerely seek your opinions if a 400W "Future Power" PSU is enough for this system....erm..this rig was a hardcore (multimedia) rig a few months back...now it put it's head down in shame coz of some older hardware. It's not mine either...my friend wanted to purchase parts by the month to fit his credit card so it took us maybe 5 months and now we are waiting to see if a 2.5GHz P4 would come in a 400FSB flavor or just buy a new mobo and get P4 2.5 or if 2.6-2.8 is coming anytime soon...
July 27, 2002 9:33:01 AM

slvr_phoenix
I think The Circular Logic spinning in your own head has got you confused.

This thread has gone sour, let's quit it here.

Unless, of course, if you have an other incoherent statement to make.
!