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I need a couple of guinea pigs.

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  • Excel
  • Spreadsheet
  • Video Games
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Anonymous
July 8, 2005 8:33:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I've put up an Excel spreadsheet for making D&D 3.5 characters. It
handles skills, doesn't handle feats. I need a few people to download
it and give it a try. (It's about 685 KB in size, Excel 97.)

There are, of course, no instructions for it's use, but it should be
fairly obvious. I've incorporated a fair number of drop-down lists at
points (such as class choices) where they're useful.

It handles skills, multiclassing, simple synergies, racial bonuses,
and all the other usual stuff.

The sheets are extensively protected; you shouldn't be able to type
anything in spots where you shouldn't type things. You'll figure them
out once it yells at you enough.

The first page is still rough (I eventually want to make that page
look like a standard character sheet), but everything seems to work.

Website is http://members.shaw.ca/gobbledegook. You'll find it on the
D&D documents page.

More about : couple guinea pigs

Anonymous
July 10, 2005 5:21:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

3 days and nobody's even looked at it?

I need some feedback, so I can improve it.
Anonymous
July 10, 2005 7:46:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ken Andrews <gobble@degook.com> wrote:
>3 days and nobody's even looked at it?
>
>I need some feedback, so I can improve it.

Suggestion 1: no Excel. Eschew monopolism. At least Acrobat Reader
is free...


Donald
Related resources
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 9:17:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:46:42 +0000 (UTC), tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(Donald Tsang) wrote:

>Ken Andrews <gobble@degook.com> wrote:
>>3 days and nobody's even looked at it?
>>
>>I need some feedback, so I can improve it.
>
>Suggestion 1: no Excel. Eschew monopolism. At least Acrobat Reader
>is free...

So you're saying that Acrobat Reader can read / process / save Excel
spreadsheets? I never knew that. Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 10:54:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ken Andrews <gobble@degook.com> wrote:
>tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu (Donald Tsang) wrote:
>>Ken Andrews <gobble@degook.com> wrote:
>>>3 days and nobody's even looked at it?
>>>
>>>I need some feedback, so I can improve it.
>>
>>Suggestion 1: no Excel. Eschew monopolism. At least Acrobat Reader
>>is free...
>
>So you're saying that Acrobat Reader can read / process / save Excel
>spreadsheets? I never knew that. Thanks, I'll give it a try.

No, I'm saying you shouldn't foist off .xls documents on people as
if they were good for the world, or even gaming. A decent Java
program might be reasonable (most modern platforms have available,
free, JDKs).

I think you may be able to save the contents of an editable PDF
using Acrobat Reader, but I can't remember (Adobe's pretty bad, but
they're not quite Microsoft). Even something as dumb as a PHP
program can probably let you save character sheet contents as part
of a cookie, in addition to displaying them on a nice, printable
page.

I'm just saying we don't need to promulgate The Microsoft Way (which,
as I recall, is "embrace and extend", at least with respect to standards).

Donald
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 12:59:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Just saw this. I tried a Halfling Rogue, but racial bonuses to Skills
(Climb, Jumb, Move Silently) don't seem to be working.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 7:21:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Donald Tsang wrote:
> Ken Andrews <gobble@degook.com> wrote:
>
>>3 days and nobody's even looked at it?
>>
>>I need some feedback, so I can improve it.

Personally, I find automated charactersheets a PITA, as I'm always
toying with new house rules. Besides, none of them can legitimately have
the various splatbooks without licencing from WotC; and I'm certainly
not paying for something I don't really want even when it's free. 8|

> Suggestion 1: no Excel. Eschew monopolism. At least Acrobat Reader
> is free...

Openoffice.org reads Excel sheets just fine, apart from any
included javascript widgets (or selection pull-downs, IIRC). It also
manages to save them down to a rather more portable size.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
July 11, 2005 11:42:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <F9ednSQDIvkQMU_fRVn-hQ@rogers.com>,
Dave Butler <ci915@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>Some real problems with Java are:
> (d) having garbage collection implemented 'for free' has made a lot of
> people very sloppy;

If Java had proper garbage collection, most programs
would self delete :->
--
Michael
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NPC rights activist | Nameless Abominations are people too.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 3:01:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 11 Jul 2005 08:59:35 -0700, "Pythor" <pythor@gmail.com> wrote:

>Just saw this. I tried a Halfling Rogue, but racial bonuses to Skills
>(Climb, Jumb, Move Silently) don't seem to be working.

Thanks. Did the test work with kobolds, then forgot to add the
racials for the standard races. Added Elf, Gnome, Half-Elf, and
Halfling. They'll be in when I update tonight.

Can't add Dwarves, unfortunately, because their racial mods are all
conditionals (depending on stonework / gemwork). Can't handle them
unless I were to break them out as, for example, Search (Stone) versus
Search (everything else) or Appraise (Stone or metal) versus Appraise
(everything else).

Other than the stupidity, does it seem to work alright?

Oh, if you're trying races, note that Half-Elf and Half-Orc are turned
off. I don't allow them in my campaign. Turning them on should be
very obvious as to how.
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 3:35:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>Dave Butler <ci915@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
> (h) Nondeterministic behavior. You have *no idea* when the GC will
> reap a particular object. You therefore have no idea when
> finalize() will be called. Or even *if* it will be called, since
> IIRC the spec doesn't guarantee it will.

My notes indicate that you're correct. OTOH, use of finalize() is
supposed to be rare.

> So: acquire resources, and clean them up yourself *anyway*
> because you have no other way to ensure that it happens. Okay,
> memory may be reclaimed, but that file handle will remain open
> for an unknown time, unless you close it explicitly yourself.

I'm more used to C; doesn't C++ have some analogue to fclose()? I
suspect you've chosen a poor example, because most languages I'm
familiar with use the "close the file as soon as you're done with it"
paradigm.

>That one is one of my biggest turn-offs for Java.

What did you need finalize() for, if you're free to talk about it? I've
never had to touch it, but I'm not about to claim that I've done any
"great works" in Java.

>> It's possible to write Java code that's within a hair of C++ code in
>> terms of execution speed. It's even possible to benchmark numerical
>> code that, once Hotspot messes with it, runs *faster* than C++ code
>> (troll around the comp.lang.java.* groups, if you're interested).

>I suspect that it may run faster for specific code after Hotspot's
>messed with it, because Hotspot can rearrange the calls and whatnot...
>at which point you're technically not running the same code. If you've
>got a good optimizing compiler and decent choice of algorithm I suspect
>C++ would move back into the lead.

*shrug* It's an argument for the ages. Hotspot has the advantage that
it works to optimize the code as it sees data. C++ forces you to write
more general algorithms or really know the data that you'll be working on.

As for "not the same code", it's just another level of optimisation in
the compile process. It's odd, I'll grant you, that the work continues
even after the program has started running (and isn't saved), but it's
all in aid of getting down to machine instructions.

>> It's just work -- like doing anything well -- and it seems that many
>> have the view that, because Java is simple to write code in, it should
>> be simple to write _good_ code in, and that seems to not be true.

>If you've got a simple language that isn't simple to write good code in,
>something's wrong.

[snip]

>C++ is at least honest about the complexity. It doesn't pretend to be
>easy. It does take greater knowledge to use. It also requires some
>more discipline (or at least learned discipline, since once you've got
>the habits it's not really noticeable). Experience counts for much.

And yet, it's easy to write a program in C++. Tens of thousands of
university students do it every year. Some even hack together
projects of moderate size. Likewise Java.

(Now, you're right, Java lies like a rug about complexity. The vastly
funny part is that a big part of the learning curve deals with memory
management (threading and GUI stuff round out the top three).)

>I'm biased. I'm comfortable with C++, and feel (in general) that dumb
>tools are for dumb people. I *appreciate* expertise and tools that
>require expertise.

The "problem" is that Java requires a different bundle of expertise.
It's a different language with some of the same heritage. You wouldn't,
typically, write C++ code using precisely the same techniques as for
writing C code, yet I see a fair number of folks pounding away at Java
as if it were C++.

It's funny where people find their programing comfort level. My learning
route went something like [BASIC and Logo] -> Forth -> [C, some Pascal] ->
[Java and assembly (x86, primarily)] -> C++. I picked up Postscript and
Perl along the way someplace, and I'd really like to find the time to
learn Lisp/Scheme. Of those languages, I'd have to say that the one I'm
happiest coding in is assembly.

>> ObD&DCharacter Sheets: Pen and paper's best; for computer-aided stuff
>> I'd just go with text files (using vi, but your editor's your choice).

>I use Perl a lot when running numbers.

How much number running is there to do, really? I've used Java for the
couple of times I've needed strange math done (e.g., make a random set
of stats based on 25-point-buy), or to automate the dog work (treasure
generation), but I wouldn't say that I've found a real need (or want)
for number crunching.

>I still want to find (or build) a designer's Wiki. Nice, simple text
>editing building decent-looking webpages, with certain features that'd
>make my life easier than standard Wiki (such as the ability to create
>'data types' that provide me with a suitable form for entry, ideally
>with some ability to double check certain things.

Funny, really. I've never seen the attraction to Wikis (Wiki? Wikies?
Wikae?).

--
--DcB
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 3:41:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mr. M.J. Lush <mlush@hgmp.mrc.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <F9ednSQDIvkQMU_fRVn-hQ@rogers.com>,
>Dave Butler <ci915@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Some real problems with Java are:
>> (d) having garbage collection implemented 'for free' has made a lot of
>> people very sloppy;

>If Java had proper garbage collection, most programs
>would self delete :->

True, but also of most other programing languages. Sturgeon's Law. :>

--
--DcB
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 11:18:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ken Andrews wrote:
> Can't add Dwarves, unfortunately, because their racial mods are all
> conditionals (depending on stonework / gemwork). Can't handle them
> unless I were to break them out as, for example, Search (Stone) versus
> Search (everything else) or Appraise (Stone or metal) versus Appraise
> (everything else).

Yup, there's a ton of conditional stuff in the rules. Ran into the
same problem when doing an Excel character sheet for myself. I have an
old Pentium I laptop that I used to use, that couldn't handle PCgen,
which got me started on my (now back-burnered) character sheet project.

> Other than the stupidity, does it seem to work alright?

Took a quick look at it and will test drive it when time permits (which
will probably not be until late August). It's very pretty :) 

Take a look at my effort and feel free to nab any functionality you
find interesting. IIRC, it is SRD compliant (with the possible
exception of the XP stuff) but only uses core (PHB, DMG) info. I don't
have control over the site, and I suspect the version available there
is out of date - I haven't thought much about this character sheet
lately, so I haven't checked out the site lately.
http://www.outerlimitscomics.com/modules.php?name=Downl...

It supports Barbarians, Clerics, Fighters, Monks (I think), and Rogues
to level 20. Wizard and Sorceror spells are supported up to 4th level
spells. I don't have any spell support for Bards, Paladins or Rangers
yet. Basically, if the cell is green, it's suitable for entry. If you
see Orange with red letters, it's a Bad Thing.
It's not pretty, but print the "CharSheet" tab and you get a single
page character sheet. Cleric and Wiz/Sorceror spells are in their own
worksheets/tabs and can be printed separately (as a spellbook). (For
wizards, it serves both as a spell book and "daily spells prepared"
planner, but the spellbook portion is currently non-printing).

Caveat - this was done ad hoc (not a lot of planning) so there is a lot
of junk or duplicated info in some of the hidden cells. If the workbook
on that site is not version 4.2.3, it's out of date and might have a
circular reference or incorrectly calculate encumbrance from coins (or
have other minor bugs, depending on how old it is)
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 3:09:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <slrndd6ne1.s5n.keith.davies@kjdavies.org>,
Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>Dave Butler <ci915@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>> My notes indicate that you're correct. OTOH, use of finalize() is
>> supposed to be rare.
>
>So, uh... no destructors?

This is the second time I've heard of a language not being able to guarantee
that destructors are called. I wonder if it's some interaction with garbage
collection? If X allocates a Y, one expects the destructor to release it, but
the GC might happen to get to Y first. So to avoid double-release the GC
might have to avoid calling destructors?
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 1:04:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In <db08cl$oa6$1@knot.queensu.ca> dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) writes:

>In article <slrndd6ne1.s5n.keith.davies@kjdavies.org>,
>Keith Davies <keith.davies@kjdavies.org> wrote:
>>Dave Butler <ci915@freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>>> My notes indicate that you're correct. OTOH, use of finalize() is
>>> supposed to be rare.
>>
>>So, uh... no destructors?

>This is the second time I've heard of a language not being able to guarantee
>that destructors are called. I wonder if it's some interaction with garbage
>collection? If X allocates a Y, one expects the destructor to release it, but
>the GC might happen to get to Y first. So to avoid double-release the GC
>might have to avoid calling destructors?

To avoid double release it has to be the GC's responsibility to
call the destructor, and the Java language spec., at least, allows
it to not bother for objects still active or awaiting collection
when the program exits. (The assumption seems to be that it's just
releasing memory and the OS can do that just as well.)

That's the real problem with garbage collection, IMNSHO - it's
typically only concerned with memory recovery, but many
programs need to keep track of other scarce resources,
INCLUDING ones which only have meaning within the program -
for instance, an online game may need to restrict the
number of active players to keep the server's performance
at reasonable levels.


--
Remove any bits of tatt after the at in my address to reply
Anonymous
July 13, 2005 11:36:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Seems to work now. I'm kind of disappointed by the fact that feats
aren't an option. Also, on the Skill Tab, skills that aren't trained,
and have no default show blank, while on the Character Tab, they show
zero. It would be good if you could fix that.
!