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Basic Overclocking Question

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July 29, 2002 6:04:17 PM

Please help a 'n00b' wanting to overclock...

I built my first system last month. Here are the specs:

ABIT KG7 (AMD761)
AMD Duron 1.2GHz
GeForce2 Ti 64MB
512MB DDR266 RAM @ DDR200 :( 

I bought the RETAIL VERSION of my Duron CPU which has a 3-year warranty, so I absolutely will not mess around with it and 'unlock the bridges' or whatever it takes to be able to change the multiplier. What I want to know is this: as long as I don't change the voltage, is there any potential to destroy any of my devices by overclocking the FSB? For example, if I tried to boot up my 1.2GHz Duron with a 133MHz FSB (resulting in 1596MHz), would it just probably lock up, or would it actually damage something? Also, what does everyone think is a realistic FSB setting with maximum stability for a 1.2GHz Duron?

EDIT: I forgot to mention... I am only using the HSF that came in the retail box, so my temperatures are already up to 47 or 48 idle at the default speed.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by BrettJRob on 07/29/02 02:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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July 29, 2002 8:45:34 PM

You WILL need to raise the core voltage for that kind of overclock. It WON'T damage anything at 133MHz FSB, unless you overheat the processor. Everything else will be at normal speeds.

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>
July 29, 2002 10:17:05 PM

doesn't overclocking the cpu in any way void the warrenty though? FSB or voltage?

"What kind of idiot are you?"
"I don't know, what kinds are there?"
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July 29, 2002 11:10:26 PM

Shhh, if you don't say anything, I won't either.

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>
July 30, 2002 6:25:52 AM

Heh they won't know if you overclock or not anyways if its just the fsb. Changing it to 133 should not damage anything except maybe the chip unless it happens to catch on fire, but that shouldn't happen unless the hsf is not on. I don't think you will get 133 on the 1.2ghz duron though. From what I know its common to reach that on the 1.0ghz one but on the 1.2 its not so common. I guess I should mention don't just jump straight to 133 try going up in small increments 1-2mhz.
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July 30, 2002 7:35:40 AM

Small increments don't work on a lot of sytems past around 120MHz due to increased PCI frequency, I suggest jumping straight to 133 first and then trying something lower if it doesn't work.

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>
July 30, 2002 11:22:40 AM

As far as my experiency shows, you won't go far if you even don't increase the voltage. Here are the maximum FSB frequences, considering that you use Duron 1.2 GHz with a standart HSF:
110-112 MHz with only bus speed increasing;

120-124 MHz with bus speed increasing AND voltage increasing;
133 MHz with bus speed increasing AND voltage increasing AND CPU-multiplier unlocking and decreasing.

The last way is most effective for increasing the performance.
No matter which way you will go, you will break the warranty.


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July 30, 2002 2:21:04 PM

Quote:
I suggest jumping straight to 133 first and then trying something lower if it doesn't work

Duron 1200 at 133 Mhz= 1596 MHz!!
I don't think that's possible. It won't even boot up at that speed.

<b>(<font color=yellow>as good as it looks</font color=yellow>)</b>
July 30, 2002 2:28:04 PM

Quote:
For example, if I tried to boot up my 1.2GHz Duron with a 133MHz FSB (resulting in 1596MHz), would it just probably lock up, or would it actually damage something?


It won’t even boot up at 1596 MHz and you will have to make a clear of the CMOS in order to reset the settings of the BIOS.
It won’t get damaged if you have a properly installed HSF.


Quote:
Also, what does everyone think is a realistic FSB setting with maximum stability for a 1.2GHz Duron?

1300 – 1350 MHz (with no voltage changes)


<b>(<font color=yellow>as good as it looks</font color=yellow>)</b>
July 30, 2002 3:48:24 PM

Thanks for all the info.

Since it appears I won't be getting anywhere fast by just overclocking the FSB, I must ask: how hard is it to do what is necessary to 'unlock' the multipliers? I am guessing I'd have much better performance running at 133*9.5 than at my current 100*12. Having PC2100 memory running at DDR200 makes me insane!

I'll go ahead and try to push the FSB up to 110 MHz w/o a voltage increase and see what happens. If I <b>were</b> to decide to increase the voltage, what would I need to push it up to to see, say, 115 MHz?
July 30, 2002 4:20:21 PM

I suggest that you give it a try, unlocking the L1 bridges on a Duron is really easy and can be "erased" without problems. You'll just need a mechanical pencil ( 0.5mm lead will do ) a steady hand and a good light source. Just draw fine lines with the pencil on the 5 golden lines just right of the L1 marking. Make sure the lines don't touch each others, if you mess things up, erase the lines with a small white rubber eraser, clean the remaining graphite with a Q-tip dipped in alcohol, let it dry and start again.

I'm running my own Duron Morgan 1000 @ 7.5 x 133 MHz and I built a system for a friend with an unlocked Duron Morgan 1200 @ 7.0 x 166 MHz, both CPUs are UNDER volted to 1.45 V and FULLY stable under ALL stress tests I could get my hands on ( Sysoft Sandra, Prime95 and BURN )

If you want to overclock, try it without raising the core voltage at first, as you read above, the Duron Morgan can run at a MUCH lower core voltage, there are no need to start overclocking with a voltage over 1.75 V

Fok Speling Misstake
July 30, 2002 4:28:49 PM

EDIT: Sorry, accidentally posted something 3 times!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by BrettJRob on 07/30/02 12:47 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 30, 2002 4:28:54 PM

EDIT : Sorry, accidentally posted something three times!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by BrettJRob on 07/30/02 12:47 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
July 30, 2002 4:45:22 PM

Sounds easy enough, but I can just see myself screwing it up anyway ;) .

I just my first system about a month ago and still don't know much, so bear with me here...

Now, I remember when I installed the CPU (with my dad's help), before you could put the HSF on, there was a 'pad' or strip of some material. Two questions: what is this strip of material? And if I do rip the processor out to 'operate' on it, how will I make sure it is in the same condition as before?

Sorry for all the 'n00b' talk, I promise I'll be gone (for a while at least) after I figure out how to unlock the bridges AND 're-assemble' the CPU and HSF ;) 
July 30, 2002 5:24:38 PM

This was my first system too, you can't screw the CPU just by drawing on it with a pencil...

The "pad of material" under your heat sink is the TIM ( thermal interface material ) AKA thermal tape, it's sticky, it's icky, it's gooey and it sucks as a thermal interface. Make sure scrape it off if you remove the heatsink from the CPU, thermal tape is a use once thing. It goes off easely with a clean, sharp rasor blade. Clean off the remaining material from the CPU and HS with a Q-tip dipped in alcohol, let dry then apply some thermal paste on the core with a clean rasor blade. Arctic silver II and III are two favourites here. Don't put too much or too little, half the size of a grain of rice is enough to cover the entire surface of the core. It's also a good idea to put a very small amount on the heat sink to fill the air gaps between the core and the heatsink.

I was afraid too when I first tried to unlock my Duron, now that I know how easy it is, I did'nt hesitate to unlock my friend's Duron, took me 30 second and the lines were perfect on my first try...

I wish you good luck, even if you won't need it IMHO =)

Fok Speling Misstake
July 30, 2002 5:44:46 PM

Unlocking Durons is fairly simple. <A HREF="http://www.thetechzone.com/articles/overclocking/tbird1..." target="_new">Make sure you look online for some Tbird unlocking methods.</A> There are some good pics floating around. When and if you remove the Thermal pad be careful about scratching the heatsink with a sharp object. It wont ruin it but it will remove some of the effectivness of it.

Good luck.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.
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July 30, 2002 6:19:02 PM

Isn't it the same core as the XP, minus some cache? It should at least be worth a shot!

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>
July 30, 2002 6:57:40 PM

The way your post is worded, I'm not sure if I would NEED to take the HSF off to unlock the chip. Can I do the 'pencil trick' without ripping off the HSF (and thus having to order Arctic Silver online, wait a few days, etc.)?
July 30, 2002 7:12:57 PM

I agree, however looks like Morgan Duron is not as good overclocker as the “older” Duron.
If you see at <A HREF="http://www.overclockers.com" target="_new">http://www.overclockers.com&lt;/A> at CPU database, the average overclocking of a Morgan Duron is about 150 Mhz over the default speed, unless you have a hand picked codes as AXIA or AHHAA.

Actually I have a 1100 Duron (not special code) @ 1245 MHz (166x7.5) with 1.8 V and it always crash at 46ºC. Same behavior with 1.85 V, so looks like is the end of the road for me. :(  . Curently I’m in winter so the CPU keeps at healthy 36-37 ºC


<b>(<font color=yellow>as good as it looks</font color=yellow>)</b>
July 30, 2002 7:13:53 PM

No...the HSF HAS to come off.......a real piss off however woudl be if ur CPU came fromt he factory unlocked and u go through all of this to only find out its done for you...lol

Order or AS3 now....wait till ti gets in and when it does.....rip the HSF off...

BTW if u want better overclocks u should look into buying a new HSF Solution, liek the Thermaltake Volcano 7....CHEAP and good.......

And Crashman...yes, the Morgan core is the same core as the AXP minus the 192KB of L2 Cache.....and of course it doesnt have the organic packaging either....

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>
July 30, 2002 7:14:26 PM

sadly, you MUST take the HSF off to make the unlocking

<b>(<font color=yellow>as good as it looks</font color=yellow>)</b>
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July 30, 2002 8:01:20 PM

Crap, my bad, looks like it's based on the T-bird core.

<font color=blue>By now you're probably wishing you had ask more questions first!</font color=blue>
July 30, 2002 8:11:36 PM

Not exactly.

From THG <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/01q3/010821/index.html" target="_new"> AMD's Duron Reaches The Giga Hertz Barrier</A>

<b>”The new 1 GHz Duron comes equipped with AMD's stripped-down version of the already known 'Palomino'-core, which goes by the name 'Morgan'. Here are the differences over previous Durons:


180,000 more transistors, from 25 million to 25.18 million
Different die size of 106 mm2 and a different die shape
3DNow! Professional = full Intel SSE (streaming SIMD extensions) support
Hardware auto data pre-fetch
Reduced power consumption
Running at 1.75 V, max current 26.3 A, max. power 46.1 W
Thermal diode (?)”</b>


<b>(<font color=yellow>as good as it looks</font color=yellow>)</b>
July 31, 2002 1:41:54 AM

Your post reminded me that I bought a Duron Morgan 1000MHz AHHAA, I heard about AXIA overclocking, should I expect this kind of overclocking potential ?


Fok Speling Misstake
July 31, 2002 4:09:49 AM

You should expect better OC for 2 reasons: Duron 1000 is on the bottom of the Morgan core and for the AHHAA code.
I would say (just a bet, we both know that OC is different in every CPU) 200-250 MHz over the default speed as average, with some voltage increasing and some air good cooling.

<b>(<font color=yellow>as good as it looks</font color=yellow>)</b>
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