Varying effects of Entangle by terrain

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Hi all,

The Entangle description encourages the DM to alter the spell effect
somewhat based on the nature of the entangling plants. If one were to try
to use official DMG terrain types to nail this down a bit, what changes
would you make?

My ideas:

1. Spell works as written in squares of heavy undergrowth, a hedgerow, trees
or within 5' of massive trees.

2. Strength and Escape Artist DCs become 15 in light undergrowth or within
5' of above terrains (other than massive trees but including "narrow
hedgerows" )

3. Strength and Escape Artist DCs become 10 in shallow bog or clear hexes
where low grass or plants are present (this can include cliffs and light
rubble)

3. Entangle has no effect in deep bog, quicksand, scree, heavy rubble,
chasms, rock walls, caves, ice, snow, sand dunes, water


I think this is already a pretty powerful spell for level 1 so I make it
work as written only in the best possible case. It's a real battlefield
killer! I'm about to run some battles soon and I want the terrain to matter
and for it to be decided neutrally.

Spinner

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Spinner wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The Entangle description encourages the DM to alter the spell effect
> somewhat based on the nature of the entangling plants. If one were to try
> to use official DMG terrain types to nail this down a bit, what changes
> would you make?
>
> My ideas:
>
> 1. Spell works as written in squares of heavy undergrowth, a hedgerow, trees
> or within 5' of massive trees.
>
> 2. Strength and Escape Artist DCs become 15 in light undergrowth or within
> 5' of above terrains (other than massive trees but including "narrow
> hedgerows" )
>
> 3. Strength and Escape Artist DCs become 10 in shallow bog or clear hexes
> where low grass or plants are present (this can include cliffs and light
> rubble)
>
> 3. Entangle has no effect in deep bog, quicksand, scree, heavy rubble,
> chasms, rock walls, caves, ice, snow, sand dunes, water
>
>
> I think this is already a pretty powerful spell for level 1 so I make it
> work as written only in the best possible case. It's a real battlefield
> killer! I'm about to run some battles soon and I want the terrain to matter
> and for it to be decided neutrally.
>
> Spinner
>
>

Well, if one of your players is a druid, does this mean you are
intentionally plotting to screw him over? How does the druid using one
of his spells equate to reducing the neutrality of the battle? Perhaps
the player has been abusing the spell and you want to encourage some
ingenuity. That's good. Provide ample space and time for the players
to come up with new strategies or you may wind up with a TPK.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:

> I'm really conflicted about how to handle Entangle. A lot of spells do
> different things based on their "crunch" and their "fluff", but
> Entangle is probably the worst of the lot. Does it do anything in a
> dungeon? It says "the effects of the spell may be altered somewhat",
> which doesn't really sound like justification to make it fail
> completely in most situations.
>
> I think the best solution is to make plants come if at _all_ possible.
> rocky ground or the ground floors of buildings, for instance, might
> break up as tangled roots shoot to the surface, tying up people's legs.
> Caves could have, I dunno, fungus growths. Dungeons, well, you're
> probably out of luck there.
>
> Laszlo
>

Makes sense to me. Without enough plants around, the spell doesn't have
the required material to function. However, as long as there is soil,
there is a chance that roots can up. A neat variant of this for
dungeons could be calling mushroom spores to swarm the target, causing
choking or blindness.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>> > The Entangle description encourages the DM to alter the spell effect
>> > somewhat based on the nature of the entangling plants. If one were to
>> > try
>> > to use official DMG terrain types to nail this down a bit, what changes
>> > would you make?
>> >
>> > My ideas:
>> >
>> > 1. Spell works as written in squares of heavy undergrowth, a hedgerow,
>> > trees
>> > or within 5' of massive trees.
>> >
>> > 2. Strength and Escape Artist DCs become 15 in light undergrowth or
>> > within
>> > 5' of above terrains (other than massive trees but including "narrow
>> > hedgerows" )
>> >
>> > 3. Strength and Escape Artist DCs become 10 in shallow bog or clear
>> > hexes
>> > where low grass or plants are present (this can include cliffs and
>> > light
>> > rubble)
>> >
>> > 3. Entangle has no effect in deep bog, quicksand, scree, heavy rubble,
>> > chasms, rock walls, caves, ice, snow, sand dunes, water
>> >
>> >
>> > I think this is already a pretty powerful spell for level 1 so I make
>> > it
>> > work as written only in the best possible case. It's a real
>> > battlefield
>> > killer! I'm about to run some battles soon and I want the terrain to
>> > matter
>> > and for it to be decided neutrally.
>> >
>> > Spinner
>> >
>>
>> Well, if one of your players is a druid, does this mean you are
>> intentionally plotting to screw him over? How does the druid using one
>> of his spells equate to reducing the neutrality of the battle? Perhaps
>> the player has been abusing the spell and you want to encourage some
>> ingenuity. That's good. Provide ample space and time for the players
>> to come up with new strategies or you may wind up with a TPK.
>
> I'm really conflicted about how to handle Entangle. A lot of spells do
> different things based on their "crunch" and their "fluff", but
> Entangle is probably the worst of the lot. Does it do anything in a
> dungeon? It says "the effects of the spell may be altered somewhat",
> which doesn't really sound like justification to make it fail
> completely in most situations.
>
> I think the best solution is to make plants come if at _all_ possible.
> rocky ground or the ground floors of buildings, for instance, might
> break up as tangled roots shoot to the surface, tying up people's legs.
> Caves could have, I dunno, fungus growths. Dungeons, well, you're
> probably out of luck there.
>
You could see it that way, I guess. I suppose I see the "invitation" in the
PH to modify the effects as a good thing. The thing is long range and can
really slaughter an opposing team that hasn't the means to deal with it.
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing -- I just think it's better off as a
"niche" spell. IOW, awesome if you can get to work for you in the woods
where the plants you're magicking are tough ... poor if you're on the king's
manicured front lawn ... not worth preparing if you're going into a dungeon.

I mean the thing has long range and a 40' radius!

Spinner

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Behold! for "Spinner" <bprentic@uwo.ca> spake unto the multitude thus:

>I think this is already a pretty powerful spell for level 1 so I make it
>work as written only in the best possible case. It's a real battlefield
>killer! I'm about to run some battles soon and I want the terrain to matter
>and for it to be decided neutrally.

Agreed, in that I've seen it dominate a battle even at 7th level. If
the targets don't have missile weapons or substantial strength, they
can be dog food after this.

Though I'd allow it to be a bit better than as written if the targets
are already hampered by undergrowth. Alternatively, scale it somewhat
by level.

--
Jim or Sarah Davies, but probably Jim

D&D and Star Fleet Battles stuff on http://www.aaargh.org

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Spinner wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> The Entangle description encourages the DM to alter the spell effect
> somewhat based on the nature of the entangling plants. If one were to try
> to use official DMG terrain types to nail this down a bit, what changes
> would you make?

Off the top of my head.

If the plants in question already slow your movement, this spell
stacks with that effect. If they already require Str or Escape Artist
checks to pass, you must make both checks seperately.

If the plants aren't capable of holding a creature of your size you
will automatically make your save, but still suffer the movement
penalty. Typically, fallow feilds or wild plains can hold up to Large
sized creatures, while trimmed grass would only hold up to Tiny ones.
Bushes and such must be at least 1/4 as tall as their target to hold them.

Dense forests are often devoid of ground plants away from any
clearings, Small or smaller creatures on the ground would feel no
effect, with Medium ones having to duck and Large ones having to crawl
to avoid any effect.

The spell has no effect in any squares barren of plant life, though
other than underground or on scree slopes that's a rare occurrence.
Places with minimal life, such as lichens or moss can only hold Fine
creatures, such as crawling swarms, but still slow everyone.

Damage taken (after DR and other reductions) is doubled for any
plant that naturally causes damage to those moving through it.


Combined with /Plant Growth/ (that slows movement to 5'), you can
only move 5' as a full round action (as per normal for reduced movement
rules).

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>>I think this is already a pretty powerful spell for level 1 so I make it
>>work as written only in the best possible case. It's a real battlefield
>>killer! I'm about to run some battles soon and I want the terrain to
>>matter
>>and for it to be decided neutrally.
>
> Agreed, in that I've seen it dominate a battle even at 7th level. If
> the targets don't have missile weapons or substantial strength, they
> can be dog food after this.
>
I've seen it too -- it can be bad, eh?

> Though I'd allow it to be a bit better than as written if the targets
> are already hampered by undergrowth.

I guess it is if you think about it -- ie., undergrowth can slow movement by
1/4 or 1/2 already ... so moving "half speed" as per the default spell
effect (regardless of save) is a real bitch in undergrowth anyway. But
there's no difference, for example, between trees and turf -- both entangle
equally without some adjudication to the contrary.

> Alternatively, scale it somewhat
> by level.
>
Not the desired outcome. And it scales decently anyways because the two
checks required to escape this thing once entangled (Strength and Escape
Artist) aren't commonly scaling with level anyways (except two cases maybe:
Strength *monsters* and Rogues with Escape Artist).

Thanks for the input!

Spinner