Intel on track for 90nm technology

Crashman

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<A HREF="http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzM4" target="_new">http://hardocp.com/article.html?art=MzM4</A>. Looks like the super fast processors for next year are right on schedule. 4GHz, here we come!

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
 

juin

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4 ghz too easy 6 ghz will be hard to get

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
 

Kzzrn

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Not really if you take into consideration that the P4 can be scaled up to 10 GHtz without any major changes made to the general architecture.

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imgod2u

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Intel estimated that, although I'm not really too sure about that one. It may be just the ALU at 10 GHz. In a 5 GHz P4 (or Prescott), the ALU would run at 10 GHz.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.
 

slvr_phoenix

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I have to admit that while I don't like the idea of falling for a fluff-bunny marketting love-in, I am admittedly a <i>lot</i> more impressed by this than I am by anything I've seen on AMD's Sledge Hammer (sorry <i>Opteron</i>) so far.

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
 
I just hope Intel will make one compatible with the current boards. I'd lvoe to upgrde my computer to a 4ghz prescott! Make my video rendering a bit faster heh!

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
 

juin

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I think but let say it will be socket compatible but maybe not for the chipset.

Now the big question what after presscott there nothing on the roadmap

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
 

juin

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I think but let say it will be socket compatible but maybe not for the chipset.

Now the big question what after presscott there nothing on the roadmap

The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
 

wolverinero79

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I just find it funny how many idiots pop up when announcements like this come out...
Taken from a Yahoo finance post yesterday:
"AMD is 100% on 0.13u technology, Intel is about 50%.

AMD sampling 0.09u in Q4 of 2002 and moving to full production of 0.09u in 2H2003, Intel is talking about sampling 0.09u in the Oregon R&D fab in 2H2003.

With each press release Intel shows itself to be falling further behind in technology. "
-- c5th_e_n

He he he, people crack me up.

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
 

eden

Champion
Yeah me too. It seems the way Intel is doing it, it's taking years of competition into one single upgrade of physics. It feels like they want to just kill whatever is out there. I almost get a bad aura of monopoly feel.

AMD better have some innovation soon, because the more Intel talks, the more they gain. AMD has yet to speak much these days, and often nothing but bad news comes out. Not a good year as I first predicted.

--
Is the opportunity to earn money by working, free?
 

wolverinero79

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Nah, if Intel would have wanted to kill all of the competition, they would have dropped their ASPs by 100 bucks a piece. Intel likes having companies like AMD around to keep them out of the goverment's sights.

I believe AMD tried to break away from the idea of following Intel around and tried to approach .09 micron technology by themselves and hit the wall so to speak. So they've had to backtrack a little, and as a result have had to delay major releases. However why they have yet to refine their .13 micron technology is beyond me. When you're the underdog, you have to keep moving or die and I don't think it's quite time for them to die yet. But seriously, why the lack of .13 technology? You go to pricewatch and their are almost 2 pages for .13 products (completely the 2200), while Intel has 8 pages (a variety of different speeds and generations of processors). And i have no idea what AMD's flash is running on (possibly still .18). IMO, AMD needs to get moving fast, because there is hope in sight for the technology sector, and when the boom comes through, AMD will want to ride it just as much as Intel has set themselves up to. The 2.66 and 2.8 chips have got to be coming out soon, and rumors seem to be the only thing from the AMD sector right now. I say 2-3 weeks and either AMD will do something awesome and incredible, or Intel will, or both....who knows :) It certainly is interesting though...

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
 

nja469

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I don't know really - PCs have saturated a good share of the US market. Performance leaps in technology haven't been breathetaking. PCs are still big old boxes, so general people don't see much of a difference except a bigger "hertz" number. And for email and AOL alot of people are learning they don't need a faster machine for it. In fact faster internet connections make the difference anymore. I had an old PC with broadband connection, and it sufficed just fine. My friend got a Pentium 4 1.5GHz with DDR when it first came out. I noticed how much faster things opened, but it was only a sec or two faster and when I got on the net with 56K connection my old clunker was a speed demon in comparasion. It's not a secret that the future of computing is in small, mobile, easy to use systems. People who are most interested in technology, people in the IT industry are getting laid off like bloody mad. IBM just announced it's axing 5% of it's work force, some 15K people over the next year. This and many other lay-offs are leaving the employed enthusiast group small. Yes, a tech push will happen again, but will it really be in the desktop sector? Will Intel and AMD be important in say 10 years when a good number of people will be able to have a handheld PC with tons of computing power, a fast wireless connection that is simple to use anywhere on Earth? Seems like companies making handheld chips may come out on top, like motorola and IBM.

I'll be honest, I love building computers and get excited at any release of faster technology. I do admit though that when handhelds become the desktop replacement and more appliance like (meaning little to no system tweaking and upkeep) I'll switch. Why sit in a dark corner of my home when I can be at the beach doing the same thing? The technology is coming together, and I seriously have my doubts about another PC buying spree by US customers unless something revolutionary happens and people can make a huge distinction from their current beige box from the next beige box. And as we've seen recently fast CPU's and new a windows version won't cut it.

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"
 

Kzzrn

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This hasn't been a good year for either company, but more so for AMD. They lost $185 million last quater.

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imgod2u

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The reason .13 micron Athlons are in short supply and aren't of very good quality is because AMD doesn't make them themselves. They pay UMC to make them. And I'm sure UMC is a very competent semi-conductor manufactuere, no general-purpose manufacturer can do something as well as a dedicated fab plant. AMD only has 1 fab plant currently working on processors, the one in Dresden, and that one's solely dedicated to Hammer production.
In short, the reason AMD's .13 micron tech is not what it's hyped up to be is because AMD isn't focusing on it. They're focusing on Hammer.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.
 

juin

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your are right herrr i dont like that but that MS job longhorn will put major pressure on CPU/VPU and on top lack of optimization so P6 16.0 GHZ will be need geforce 66.



The day i meet a goth queen that tell me Intel suck.I turn in a lemming to fill is need in hardware.
 

shallowbaby

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it's fun routing for the underdog. but when reality hits, we'll just have to face it and move on.. what i'm interested in knowing is why Moore hasn't revised his stupid fake law yet? there is such a thing as over designing. semis sweat it out to get better things to market so fast (slow to some people, ah an example of the theory of relativity) that makes computers 1 year old obsolete. its nice, but do we need it that much faster that much sooner? of course, they think so. why? capitalism=greed! nothing new.

moore already revised it a couple times already, i'd think this kind of economy would be a good time to rethink it again or abandon it altogether.

<font color=green> there's more to life than increasing its speed -Ghandi</font color=green>
 

zengeos

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The reason .13 micron Athlons are in short supply and aren't of very good quality is because AMD doesn't make them themselves. They pay UMC to make them. And I'm sure UMC is a very competent semi-conductor manufactuere, no general-purpose manufacturer can do something as well as a dedicated fab plant. AMD only has 1 fab plant currently working on processors, the one in Dresden, and that one's solely dedicated to Hammer production.
In short, the reason AMD's .13 micron tech is not what it's hyped up to be is because AMD isn't focusing on it. They're focusing on Hammer.

UMC won't start making AMD CPUs until next year according to AMD. AMD's .13 process technology is just fine. The problem they ran into was an unexpected issue with the TBred die shrink itself, NOT with the process.

Probably the reason why 2200 XPs are in short supply is AMD is culling the better speed chips for 2400 or 2600 release in the next few weeks or month.

Mark-

<font color=blue>When all else fails, throw your computer out the window!!!</font color=blue>
 

slvr_phoenix

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Damn! The server must be going through some crazy shiznit. Hopefully I got the right icon. Since I only speak English, it's kinda hard to tell which selection under "Ikon til indlægget" is crazy. Heh heh. Oh well. Should be interesting.

Anywho...

I just find it funny how many idiots pop up when announcements like this come out...
Taken from a Yahoo finance post yesterday:
"AMD is 100% on 0.13u technology, Intel is about 50%.

AMD sampling 0.09u in Q4 of 2002 and moving to full production of 0.09u in 2H2003, Intel is talking about sampling 0.09u in the Oregon R&D fab in 2H2003.

With each press release Intel shows itself to be falling further behind in technology. "
-- c5th_e_n

He he he, people crack me up.

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
Can you provide an URL for us? That's just too insane to believe that anyone could be saying it with a straight face.

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
 

imgod2u

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Hmmm, looking over the news report apparantly AMD is venturing into a joint owned 300 mm wafer fab plant with UMC scheduled for 2005. Must've gotten that mixed up. One wonders where they're producing Athlons then. Of that I'm aware, Dresden has been completely converted towards Hammer production and the one in Texas has been converted to flash memory production.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.
 

slvr_phoenix

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I don't know really - PCs have saturated a good share of the US market.
True enough, but then a lot of that saturation is with really old clunkers, and most of those aren't going to survive for much longer. With the way people treat their PCs (mostly, with the way that they <i>never</i> clean out the dust) they're bound to start failing sooner or later.

And for email and AOL alot of people are learning they don't need a faster machine for it.
While true and a good thing, sadly there are still a lot more people who <i>don't</i> know that. They just go by what the salesperson tells them that they need, which is usually something insane like an extremely over-priced Wilty (P4 Willamette Celeron) with 100MHz SDRAM and a TNT2 graphics card.

In fact faster internet connections make the difference anymore. I had an old PC with broadband connection, and it sufficed just fine. My friend got a Pentium 4 1.5GHz with DDR when it first came out. I noticed how much faster things opened, but it was only a sec or two faster and when I got on the net with 56K connection my old clunker was a speed demon in comparasion.
Umm ... that's the point. Internet performance is driven primarily by bandwidth and secondarily by hard drive speed. CPU has virtually nothing to do with the internet, nor even memory. After all, 56K doesn't even come close to saturating a PCI bus, not to mention memory bandwidth or CPU power. (Though if you have an old enough PC, you can find that your hard drive is slowing you down.)

It's not a secret that the future of computing is in small, mobile, easy to use systems.
No, it's a farse that the future of computing is small, mobile, and easy-to-use systems. It's a myth. There is barely even enough market for PDAs for all of the vendors to keep from tearing into each other like a pack of wild dogs. And that isn't likely to change even in ten years.

Just like the myth of the PC becoming a replacement for the TV as a home-entertainment center, the future of PCs is not voice-driven pocket PCs. There will always be niche markets for the strange, but it is not likely to <i>ever</i> be more than a niche market, no matter how hyped a story you get from Bob The Marketting Drone.

People who are most interested in technology, people in the IT industry are getting laid off like bloody mad. IBM just announced it's axing 5% of it's work force, some 15K people over the next year. This and many other lay-offs are leaving the employed enthusiast group small.
What great logic that is. A whole 5% get laid off (meaning that a whole 95% are still employed) and suddenly the majority of computer enthusiasts are unemployed? In case you haven't been keeping tabs, the whole US economy is verging on the fringe of a recession. Almost <i>every</i> company is 'restructuring to eliminate unnecessary overhead'. It isn't <i>just</i> the IT sector being hit.

, a tech push will happen again, but will it really be in the desktop sector?
Damn straight it will. With the excessive prices and limited upgradability of laptops and the near-uselessness of PDAs (as a regular computing device that is) companies are still (and at this rate <i>always</i>) going to be looking for the good old Beige Beastie. (Even if a lot of them are black instead of beige these days.)

Will Intel and AMD be important in say 10 years when a good number of people will be able to have a handheld PC with tons of computing power, a fast wireless connection that is simple to use anywhere on Earth? Seems like companies making handheld chips may come out on top, like motorola and IBM.
1) Maybe you haven't noticed, but INTEL MAKES PDA CPUS AS WELL. So even if your warped view of the future were to somehow astound the world by becoming true, Intel at the least will still be a part of that game.

2)Handhelds will <i>never</i> have even a quarter of the computing power of the most modern desktop PCs, and they don't even begin to compare to a workstation. So long as people need computational power to do their daily work, no PDA or tablet PC will ever suffice.

3) I highly doubt that there will <i>ever</i> be such a thing as "a fast wireless connection that is simple to use anywhere on Earth". It's a ludicrous concept. First you would need actual coverage of everywhere on Earth. Satellites don't even come close to covering that, <i>and</i> they would require you to be completely stationary while using them.

Then you would need it to actually be fast. Satellite internet connection imposes a serious delay which makes internet gaming virtually impossible. No matter how fast they are, you still have to somehow beam data from and to the satellite, which takes time. (Unless someone can somehow design a faster-than-light comm unit.)

Wireless radio networks are extremely range-limited and require millions if not billions of access points if you were to cover the whole world. It's a worthless persuit as well for sheer price and complexity alone.

nja469, I don't know where you get your information from, but you're only parroting the drivel of marketting zombies. Your views on the future of PCs are just as warped as the ludicrous claims made during the dot-com era. (And we've all seen how <i>that</i> turned out.) The whole point of hiring a marketting staff is to have expert liars weave the web of a ludicrous future into the believable so that they can hock useless wares.

If you want to stick to them and hang on their every word, go right ahead. Meanwhile the rest of the world will continue to go on using desktop PCs. They <i>might</i> get smaller (maybe even the size of a Game Cube, though that's many years off still) but they'll <i>never</i> be replaced for the pure simple reason that handheld PCs will <i>never</i> have the computational power needed.

Just to give you something to mull over, in case you haven't heard, one of the next major operating system breakthroughs (even if it is an extremely old idea that is only finally being implemented) will be using 3D acceleration in the OS's GUI. Primarily it will be to run 'windows' as textures, but it should also allow for things like 3D icons as well as other nifty eye candy. Microsoft is working on it, and Linux might even follow. (If the open source community can ever really get it's act together and decide on a universal scheme for a GUI that is.) PDAs, having <i>no</i> 3D acceleration, would never get away with this. Heck, they can't even run full versions of Word or Windows! They're extremely storage and memory limited and processor-hindered. They're good for writing email, but damned if you could ever play a decent game on them or dare I suggest actually <i>work</i> on one.

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
 

slvr_phoenix

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From what I've picked up, the complete conversion to Hammer is a future goal and not a current reality. As is the Texas no longer kicking out CPUs. (I believe that they're still kicking out some Durons for some odd reason.)

Of course, should I be wrong on either of these accounts, I would appreciate the correction. :)

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
 

wolverinero79

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Gosh i wish i did, i only got the post, not the url. I like to keep really dumb posts in a txt file for whatever reason. There have been things from this forum that made it into there, lol. But the financial boards are much more exaggerated and hilarious :)

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
 

spud

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That hurts, I would never sell one of my customers some over priced peice of crap. Just couldnt bring myself to it. Your perception of sales persons is very clouded i would seriously rethink your views on them. Cause there are honest ones like me out there.

-Jeremy

<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue> :smile:
 

slvr_phoenix

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That hurts, I would never sell one of my customers some over priced peice of crap. Just couldnt bring myself to it. Your perception of sales persons is very clouded i would seriously rethink your views on them. Cause there are honest ones like me out there.
Don't get me wrong, some salespeople are cool. Usually those are the ones who actually have a clue what they're even selling. Heh heh.

Unfortunately, I've met <i>way</i> more uneducated clods pushing tin than I have skilled PC salespeople. I even had a Rad-Shak drone try to tell me once that 100MHz RAM (PC100) is a perfect match for a 100MHz FSB CPU. I suppose I should have at least been impressed that he even knew a P4 was a 100MHz FSB, not the typical marketting misnomer of 400MHz. Still, would <i>you</i> want your P4 running on PC100 RAM?

As of yet I have a single salesperson that I've met <i>in person</i> who even knows what CAS Latency means, not to mention can actually tell me what CL RAM is in their system.

The local OEM seems that my company bought my PC from seems to be completely clueless how to install a simple case fan. (The first PC of theirs the fan wasn't even attached. It was swinging around inside the case freely. The second PC had the fan facing the wrong way, thus killing my air flow.)

The OEM that I bought my home computer from tried to sell me a 145 watt power supply for an insane amount of money when I diagnosed that my 120 watt power supply was vastly underpowering my system.

And then there are the tons of sales droids pushing XP <b>HOME</b> on their PCs.

But my absolute favorite one of all, is Best Buy. When the brand new hard drive failed to work at all, and when Scandisk revealed countless surface errors, they actually tried to blame the problems on the fact that Scandisk was run and took an extreme amount of convincing to even get them to replace the obviously faulty hardware as they tried to blame it on improper installation.

I'm sorry, but I've been to plenty of PC shops to browse and occationally upgrade my Celeron 500. (It needed a LOT of upgrading when I first bought it.) I've yet to meet a <i>single</i> salesperson at <i>any</i> PC shop that is both knowledgable <i>and</i> honest.

So far the <i>only</i> knowledgable and honest PC salespeople and techs that I've ever met are over the 'net. And sadly, even those are rare.

If you're hurt, then I'm sorry. However, if you actually believe that there are many friendly, educated, and honest PC salespeople out there, then it is <i>you</i> whos "perception of sales persons is very clouded".

<A HREF="http://www.nuklearpower.com/comic/171.htm" target="_new">The corpse you find may be your own.</A> - Black Mage
 

nja469

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Okay, my warped little view will try to explain things better for you since your brain seems very narrow if not closed. While you're sitting at home on your gamecube sized computer when your old, everyone else will be mobile and having a life. As for the economic part, it isn't just IBM, intel recently cut jobs and many other tech companies have laid off or plan to. I'm not making up the lack of tech sales.

I know computers will get smaller. They will also have enough power to replace the desktop. It won't happen overnight, and unless you're the CEO of Sprint, Verizon or other big name wirless companies don't even try to tell me what won't be invested in for the future. Maybe the "Earth" was overstating the fact, but in any non-3rd world country should have service. You've totally ignored WAP servies and bluetooth. Any decent sized city could setup a wirless internet network in a decade or two. But cell technologies by then will also have greatly improved, they already are twice as good in Japan than here.

Granted PDA's right now suck, but I'm not talking about PDAs. I'm talking about PC's the size of PDAs. It's your view that is warped and lacks any imagination of progress in technology if you think things won't shrink significantly in a decade or two. We went from a computer the size of a room 50 years ago, to desktops that are countless times faster. But now you say we have to stop, no more progress? Sorry to bust your bubble, since your opinion won't always be right, the technology is already in the works buddy boy. The EUV light process, expected in 2007 will carve transistors in silicon wafers which will lead to microprocessors that are up to 100 times faster than today's most powerful P4 chips and much be much smaller. I'm not making this up, google search it for yourself. Memory chips will have similar increases in storage capacity with this process. Do I even need to explain nanotechnology that IBM is working very deligently on? Eventually they could make harddrive platters and heads smaller than human hair. They already have made press releases with pictures of working clock gears smaller than the human eye can even see. Here's directly from IBM news "In the computer industry, the ability to shrink the size of transistors on silicon microprocessors will soon reach its limits. Nanotechnology will be needed to create a new generation of computer components. Molecular computers could contain storage devices capable of storing trillions of bytes of information in a structure the size of a sugar cube". And unless you missed this bit of news a month or so back a company is refining the process of being able to write computer circuitry on glass and other solid objects.

We'll see what happens in 10-15 years, and I'm betting it's a lot smaller and mobile than your dream gamecube sized computer.

"Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one"