Sign-in / Sign-up
Your question

profession/ knowledge: forensics/ criminology syngeries

Tags:
  • Games
  • Video Games
Last response: in PC Gaming
Anonymous
July 21, 2005 2:15:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Profession: forensic investigator +2 synergy with Spot or Search?
Profession: criminologist +2 synergy with Sense Motive?

or

Knowledge: forensics +2 synergy with Search
Knowledge: criminology +2 synergy with Sense Motive or Diplomacy
(organized crime)

or

Knowledge: organized crime +2 synergy with Diplomacy (rogues)

Do you think these are viable skills for a DND cop or detective?
Do you think it is too far from fantasy? What about worlds like Eberron?

I'm looking at a psion inspired by Witchblade and the classic police
psychic working for the city police force.

More about : profession knowledge forensics criminology syngeries

Anonymous
July 25, 2005 10:27:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Shawn Roske wrote:
> Profession: forensic investigator +2 synergy with Spot or Search?
> Profession: criminologist +2 synergy with Sense Motive?

Not really, but I don't like giving synergies to or from Profession
skills. Profession is about making money without producing anything of
real value, it's the management and sales skill; you can do just fine at
that side of a buisness with no practical skills at all.
The working stiffs have search and sence motive, management has the
profession skill.

> Knowledge: forensics +2 synergy with Search
> Knowledge: criminology +2 synergy with Sense Motive or Diplomacy
> (organized crime)
<...>
> Knowledge: organized crime +2 synergy with Diplomacy (rogues)

No, there's already enough knowledge skills.

> Do you think these are viable skills for a DND cop or detective?
> Do you think it is too far from fantasy? What about worlds like Eberron?

Gather Information gets leads about a particular crime from your
list of snitches.
Diplomacy might help in getting some particular person to cooperate
with the investigation, as might Intimidate for getting a name.

K(Local) for a quick list of the usual suspects, you know who's
turf a crime was on and which group controls that particular market. It
already gives a bonus to Gather Information.
K(Nobility and Royalty) for an understanding of the mob bosses,
gang symbols, and allegiances. It already givces a bonus to Diplomacy.


The field use of "forensics" is mostly just the correct application
of the available tools, spells, and skills, it doesn't need any extra
unless you're managing the budget.
The field use of "criminology" is left to the players; predicting
what the bad guys will do next is not represented as a character skill.

Modern statistical analysis of who's most likely to commit certain
crimes to narrow down a broad list of suspects is out of place in
anything pre-database age, though good K(Local) would cover alot of the
purpose it serves.


> I'm looking at a psion inspired by Witchblade and the classic police
> psychic working for the city police force.

Mr Monk.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
July 25, 2005 10:27:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

tussock wrote:
> Shawn Roske wrote:
>
>> Profession: forensic investigator +2 synergy with Spot or Search?
>> Profession: criminologist +2 synergy with Sense Motive?
>
>
> Not really, but I don't like giving synergies to or from Profession
> skills. Profession is about making money without producing anything of
> real value, it's the management and sales skill; you can do just fine at
> that side of a buisness with no practical skills at all.
> The working stiffs have search and sence motive, management has the
> profession skill.

I could accept this as a player in your game. However, I wonder how you
would categorize the following:
cook
maid
doctor
lawyer
architect
politician
merchant
soldier
shaman
teacher
nanny
artist/illustrator
writer/scribe
messenger

I suppose it could be argued that some are simply the application of
craft skills or knowledge skills or are a class in themselves. Makes
putting more than one rank in a profession useless.


>> Knowledge: forensics +2 synergy with Search
>> Knowledge: criminology +2 synergy with Sense Motive or Diplomacy
>> (organized crime)
>
> <...>
>
>> Knowledge: organized crime +2 synergy with Diplomacy (rogues)
>
>
> No, there's already enough knowledge skills.

I'm not sure about this. The PH clearly states that new knowledge
skills are available to be created as required, and I think there is
room for many more--especially when considering the variability of
sophistication per campaign world, even within regions of a game world.


>> Do you think these are viable skills for a DND cop or detective?
>> Do you think it is too far from fantasy? What about worlds like Eberron?
>
>
> Gather Information gets leads about a particular crime from your
> list of snitches.
> Diplomacy might help in getting some particular person to cooperate
> with the investigation, as might Intimidate for getting a name.
>
> K(Local) for a quick list of the usual suspects, you know who's turf
> a crime was on and which group controls that particular market. It
> already gives a bonus to Gather Information.
> K(Nobility and Royalty) for an understanding of the mob bosses, gang
> symbols, and allegiances. It already givces a bonus to Diplomacy.
>
>
> The field use of "forensics" is mostly just the correct application
> of the available tools, spells, and skills, it doesn't need any extra
> unless you're managing the budget.


I accept this. I'll use this ruling, with some additional thoughts--
k(crim.) being one of them.



> The field use of "criminology" is left to the players; predicting
> what the bad guys will do next is not represented as a character skill.
>
> Modern statistical analysis of who's most likely to commit certain
> crimes to narrow down a broad list of suspects is out of place in
> anything pre-database age, though good K(Local) would cover alot of the
> purpose it serves.


No. Criminology is definitely the one salvageable here. A synergy on
gather information might be good-- think Silence of the Lambs.


>
>
>> I'm looking at a psion inspired by Witchblade and the classic police
>> psychic working for the city police force.
>
>
> Mr Monk.
>

Oh... I hadn't thought of that. Excellent show.
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
Anonymous
July 27, 2005 6:39:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Shawn Roske wrote:
> tussock wrote:
>> Shawn Roske wrote:
>>
>>> Profession: forensic investigator +2 synergy with Spot or Search?
>>> Profession: criminologist +2 synergy with Sense Motive?
>>
>> Not really, but I don't like giving synergies to or from
>> Profession skills. Profession is about making money without producing
>> anything of real value, it's the management and sales skill; you can
>> do just fine at that side of a buisness with no practical skills at all.
>> The working stiffs have search and sence motive, management has
>> the profession skill.
>
> I could accept this as a player in your game. However, I wonder how you
> would categorize the following:

Cooks and maids are unskilled, like general labourers and porters.
Whoever's in charge of a large household would be a professional, as
would whoever's directing the labourers.

Doctoring uses the heal skill, with a profession for the hospital
administrator or somesuch.

Barrister assumes people are allowed legal representatives. I'd
guess the DMG ones are representing a collection of snitches, privite
dicks, inside knowledge, and a word in the local judges ear.
Before court you Gather Information, and Diplomacy up any reluctant
witnesses. In court action would involve alot of Bluff and Sense
Motive. The profession lets you do it all in a way that'll reduce fines,
or increase winnings, such that you can pull a bigger fee.

Architect is K(Architecture and Engineering) skill.

My politicians are sorted by Aristocrat levels, soldiers are
whoever has the right stats and gear, and shamans are Adepts.

Merchants practice making a profit off buying and selling stuff,
after loans, taxes, stall rates, protection money ....

I havn't used a set system for teaching in my games. It takes time
and some source of knowledge, but is otherwise completely abstract.
Professional administrators would run any schools.

Artists are just craftsmen, the good ones making high DC stuff.
Scribes seem silly, as everyone but commoners and barbarians can write
AFAICT. Perhaps the scribes are just making it look pretty and be more
durable with a craft skill.


> I suppose it could be argued that some are simply the application of
> craft skills or knowledge skills or are a class in themselves.

Yep. In the end craft works just like profession when you're making
a living off it, it's just got the alternate use of being able to make
items.
Certain things I like to leave to a particular class, to give them
a reason to exist. IMC, if you want to be king, you need alot of levels
of Aristocrat.

> Makes putting more than one rank in a profession useless.

Well, all it's ever done is let you make more money by doing
ostensibly the same thing. You don't need raw materials like a crafter
at least, though you still need a market for your services; not that DnD
cares about such matters.


As an aside, profession and craft skills both pay far too much
money for people with low bonuses compared to what hirelings get. I'm
not sure why they did that, unless those doing the hiring are expected
to provide all the necessary equipement. Even still, it's only 1/4 or so
of what you normally get with a few ranks.
It also doen't make alot of sense that there's any such thing as
unskilled workers, 1 point in a profession or craft skill is easy for
everyone but Warriors and Aristocrats.

>>> Knowledge: forensics +2 synergy with Search
>>> Knowledge: criminology +2 synergy with Sense Motive or Diplomacy
>>> (organized crime)
>>
>> <...>
>>
>>> Knowledge: organized crime +2 synergy with Diplomacy (rogues)
>>
>> No, there's already enough knowledge skills.
>
> I'm not sure about this. The PH clearly states that new knowledge
> skills are available to be created as required, and I think there is
> room for many more--especially when considering the variability of
> sophistication per campaign world, even within regions of a game world.

The FR books split K(Local) into broad cultural groups, but most
attempts at adding knowledge skills I've seen suffer alot of overlap
with what's already there. I'd say it's better to redefine the 10 we've
got now to suit whatever new world you're building.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 11:18:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Hello everybody,

This is my first post on this NG where I've been lurking for a while
now.

> Profession: forensic investigator +2 synergy with Spot or Search?
> Profession: criminologist +2 synergy with Sense Motive?
> Knowledge: forensics +2 synergy with Search
> Knowledge: criminology +2 synergy with Sense Motive or Diplomacy
> (organized crime)
> Knowledge: organized crime +2 synergy with Diplomacy (rogues)
>
> What about worlds like Eberron?

This caught my attention as I play Eberron in a "noir" fashion with
investigation and kind of stuff.
The campaign setting provides a feat (Investigate IIRC) that let a
character uses his Search skill to find clues on a crime scene, exactly
the way forensics do in the real world.
There is another feat (Research) that allows a character to find info
using his Knowl. skills, kind of library/file search.
Last but not least, the master inquisite PrC is intended to model such
investigators, criminologists, forensics professionals, etc.
Besides, I allow as a house rule, the use of Heal skill to determine
the cause and/or date of death. DC is 25 modified by the number of
hours since death just as DC for tracking is modified by age of the
track in days.

HTH, HAND
--
Seb "Mogofale" L.
Anonymous
July 28, 2005 5:37:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mogofale wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> This is my first post on this NG where I've been lurking for a while
> now.
>
>
>>Profession: forensic investigator +2 synergy with Spot or Search?
>>Profession: criminologist +2 synergy with Sense Motive?
>>Knowledge: forensics +2 synergy with Search
>>Knowledge: criminology +2 synergy with Sense Motive or Diplomacy
>>(organized crime)
>>Knowledge: organized crime +2 synergy with Diplomacy (rogues)
>>
>>What about worlds like Eberron?
>
>
> This caught my attention as I play Eberron in a "noir" fashion with
> investigation and kind of stuff.
> The campaign setting provides a feat (Investigate IIRC) that let a
> character uses his Search skill to find clues on a crime scene, exactly
> the way forensics do in the real world.
> There is another feat (Research) that allows a character to find info
> using his Knowl. skills, kind of library/file search.
> Last but not least, the master inquisite PrC is intended to model such
> investigators, criminologists, forensics professionals, etc.
> Besides, I allow as a house rule, the use of Heal skill to determine
> the cause and/or date of death. DC is 25 modified by the number of
> hours since death just as DC for tracking is modified by age of the
> track in days.
>
> HTH, HAND


Yes, I remember reading about some of these Eberon things you mention.
I think they would work well. K:criminology is the most viable of the
variations I mentioned above, perhaps also k:o rganized crime (for an NPC
or a very focused campaign.)