Exotic Mount Pricing?

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rorschach wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> > Is there any exotic mount pricing anywhere? I know lots of settings
> > have various mounts for use by certain groups etc. I would think it
> > would be possible to buy trained mounts of more exotic types like
> > hippogriffs etc. Even if you couldn't buy a trained one, you would
> > think you could at least get ahold of an untrained one and train it.
> > Some races have other prefered mounts like dire weasels for Kobolds,
> > that I don't see any prices for.
> >
> > A standard horse just doesn't cut it when you get to high level Sure
> > you can buy a figurine, but you aren't able to use any of them all the
> > time.
> >
> > I also think paladins ought to have some upgrade path similar to
> > druid's animal companions - you could either stick with your old
> > reliable horse that gets tougher or go with something more exotic.
> >
> > - Justisaur
> >
>
> There's info in the MM for some of the magical beasts normally thought
> of as mounts, like the Griffon.
>
> From the SRD:
> ...
> Although intelligent, a griffon requires training before it can bear a
> rider in combat. To be trained, a griffon must have a friendly attitude
> toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy
> check). Training a friendly griffon requires six weeks of work and a DC
> 25 Handle Animal check. Riding a griffon requires an exotic saddle. A
> griffon can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also
> attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.
>
> Griffon eggs are worth 3,500 gp apiece on the open market, while young
> are worth 7,000 gp each. Professional trainers charge 1,500 gp to rear
> or train a griffon.
> ...
>
>
> So a trained griffon would cost 8,500 gp, unless you've got time to burn
> or the requisite Diplomacy and Handle Animal skills. Unfortunately
> there's no generalized rule for this for other potential intelligent
> mounts, like dragons (Handle Animal is normally only supposed to work
> with Int 1 or 2 creatures). The griffon rules probably set a reasonable
> baseline for cost and skill though.

Intelligent mounts like dragons would be handled by in game recruiting,
or the Leadership feat.

That seems pretty cheap for a Griffon. That's about the price of a +2
sword isn't it?

Well it's somewhere to start.

Hmm, had another interesting idea... would depend on the DM though.
Reincarnate your trained warhorse when it dies in the field. You could
get something more interesting.


- Justisaur.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Is there any exotic mount pricing anywhere? I know lots of settings
> have various mounts for use by certain groups etc. I would think it
> would be possible to buy trained mounts of more exotic types like
> hippogriffs etc. Even if you couldn't buy a trained one, you would
> think you could at least get ahold of an untrained one and train it.
> Some races have other prefered mounts like dire weasels for Kobolds,
> that I don't see any prices for.
>
> A standard horse just doesn't cut it when you get to high level Sure
> you can buy a figurine, but you aren't able to use any of them all the
> time.
>
> I also think paladins ought to have some upgrade path similar to
> druid's animal companions - you could either stick with your old
> reliable horse that gets tougher or go with something more exotic.
>
> - Justisaur
>

There's info in the MM for some of the magical beasts normally thought
of as mounts, like the Griffon.

From the SRD:
....
Although intelligent, a griffon requires training before it can bear a
rider in combat. To be trained, a griffon must have a friendly attitude
toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy
check). Training a friendly griffon requires six weeks of work and a DC
25 Handle Animal check. Riding a griffon requires an exotic saddle. A
griffon can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also
attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check.

Griffon eggs are worth 3,500 gp apiece on the open market, while young
are worth 7,000 gp each. Professional trainers charge 1,500 gp to rear
or train a griffon.
....


So a trained griffon would cost 8,500 gp, unless you've got time to burn
or the requisite Diplomacy and Handle Animal skills. Unfortunately
there's no generalized rule for this for other potential intelligent
mounts, like dragons (Handle Animal is normally only supposed to work
with Int 1 or 2 creatures). The griffon rules probably set a reasonable
baseline for cost and skill though.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rorschach wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> >
> >
> > Intelligent mounts like dragons would be handled by in game recruiting,
> > or the Leadership feat.
> >
>
> A griffon could be handled the same way, what with its Int of 5 and its
> Level Adjustment entry which says "+3 (cohort)". I believe other
> creatures like the Nightmare and Hippogriff have this same note.
>

That makes griffons ECL 10.


>
> > That seems pretty cheap for a Griffon. That's about the price of a +2
> > sword isn't it?
> >
>
> It's almost half the expected wealth of a 7th level character for a CR 4
> creature that could die in its very first encounter. The sword could get
> sundered, of course, but that's rarer in most campaigns. The griffon has
> more flavor and utility than the sword, but my intuition says it's not
> mechanically superior over the long run.
>

Well it's got 7 HD, and it's an ECL 10, It's probably a lot nastier
than the 7th lv character. Still seems cheap to me.

Especially when you consider (after looking since you found the prices
in the MM) that Pegasi and Hippogriffs come out to 4k each and they
aren't anything close to half as dangerous as a Griffon. Strange too
since the Pegasi has 4 HD (ECL 6) and is CR 3 and costs the same as the
Hippogriff which is 3 HD and CR 2.

The Hippogriff doesn't have a cohort level, but of course it only has
animal intelligence.

Obviously the prices weren't thought out very well...

And still no price for a dire weasel!

- Justisaur

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
>
>
> Intelligent mounts like dragons would be handled by in game recruiting,
> or the Leadership feat.
>

A griffon could be handled the same way, what with its Int of 5 and its
Level Adjustment entry which says "+3 (cohort)". I believe other
creatures like the Nightmare and Hippogriff have this same note.


> That seems pretty cheap for a Griffon. That's about the price of a +2
> sword isn't it?
>

It's almost half the expected wealth of a 7th level character for a CR 4
creature that could die in its very first encounter. The sword could get
sundered, of course, but that's rarer in most campaigns. The griffon has
more flavor and utility than the sword, but my intuition says it's not
mechanically superior over the long run.

> Well it's somewhere to start.
>
> Hmm, had another interesting idea... would depend on the DM though.
> Reincarnate your trained warhorse when it dies in the field. You could
> get something more interesting.
>
>
> - Justisaur.
>

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Is there any exotic mount pricing anywhere?

Arms and Equipment Guide; gives basic rules by handle animal DCs
(which have changed in 3.5), then a bunch of examples. There's a few
examples in the MM too, if you want to extrapolate prices.

> I know lots of settings have various mounts for use by certain groups
> etc. I would think it would be possible to buy trained mounts of more
> exotic types like hippogriffs etc.

MM says 3000 young, +1000 to rear (so it's domesticated), +1000 to
train, and you need the time investment of waiting for it to grow up
too, and the cost of it's keep for that time.
DnD assumes that trained monsters can't be bought and sold, that
they only respect one master, so you have to buy them young.

They're assumed to take one year to grow up, though logic would
dictate more for some, and cost up to 5gp per day to keep for large,
flying predators. Say 6000gp for a ready adult.

> Even if you couldn't buy a trained one, you would think you could at
> least get ahold of an untrained one and train it. Some races have
> other prefered mounts like dire weasels for Kobolds, that I don't see
> any prices for.

AnEG priced the ground-bound CR 2 critters much the same as a heavy
warhorse, by my calculations; given that they've got to be trained for
you. IRL, heavy warhorses also had be be trained to one person, so you
could ditch that rule for the monstrous mounts too and just spend the
final cash.

Say CR 1 ~150gp, CR 2 ~400gp, .... As usual, any abilities that are
unlimited over a day (like fast healing, or unlimited spell-like
abilities) should raise the cost for PCs.
Abilities like flight should be costed to discourage
inappropriately low level PCs from gaining access, which is why the
hippogriff is so expensive.

> A standard horse just doesn't cut it when you get to high level Sure
> you can buy a figurine, but you aren't able to use any of them all the
> time.

At high level horses are so cheap you can have a whole herd
following you. When one dies, get on the next one. To gaurantee it
survives the first round you've really got to be a Pal, Drd, or mounted
PClass to get Imp.Evasion for it.

Ideally the mounted combat feats should let you soak up your mounts
damage, and let you walk the battlefield as a single creature for most
purposes, so you only take area effect damage once, and so on.

Say, as an idea, as long as you have more HPs than your mount, you
can automatically absorb all damage it would take (don't double-dip on
area efects). Then have a short PClass to give your mount Improved
Evasion and better stats, like Pal and Drd get, so it survives OK if you
get knocked off for a moment. Make it a property of Mounted Combat, in
place of being able to cancel one attack per round.

> I also think paladins ought to have some upgrade path similar to
> druid's animal companions - you could either stick with your old
> reliable horse that gets tougher or go with something more exotic.

You're supposed to use leadership for that. I think your suggestion
might be better, leave it up to the player to decide what suits his Pal,
a super-horse or a regular young silver dragon.

--
tussock

Aspie at work, sorry in advance.