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Whaddya Think?

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September 28, 2002 2:03:12 PM

Hey guys, I haven't been around much lately, but school has started and haven't had much free time. (and parents rules :tongue: )

Well, this past Tuesday, I got my parts and put my comp together. From opening the case to finishing installing and setting up the OS, it took me only 4 hours!! And remember, this was my first build.

So here's my current system, tell me what you think. I can tell you I'm lovin it!! :smile:

Antec PLUS1060 w/ 330W TruePower PSU
P4 2.4B 133MHz FSB; 512K L2
ASUS P4B533
512MB Samsung PC2700 DDR RAM "DTL" :frown:
80GB Western Digital 800JB
Sony 16X DVD-ROM
LG 32x10x40x CD-RW
MSI Geforce4 Ti4200 128MB
3x80mm case fans

I get <A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4590695" target="_new">9957 3D Marks</A> stock speed with DDR266 2-2-5-2T. Gonna run it faster and see how I do. Still trying to break the 10000 barrier stock speed. Gonna see if I can do 2-2-5-1.5T for the RAM. :smile:

Well, may this be a lesson for all. I was a total n00b and I built my comp from scratch no prob. Saved me money, gave me way more tweaking ability than an OEM system and gave me the satisfaction of doing something myself. :lol: 

I'll post benches and stuff when I start overclocking today :smile: . Can't wait!!

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

More about : whaddya

September 28, 2002 2:38:27 PM

COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!
I bought a prefabricated comp. 10 months ago, and I think some of the components suck. The next time, I'll do it myself, too.
Does anyone know a good american online store that ships to Europe? I can't get an answer in the shops forum.

My DVD reader is destroyed! I told you it wasn't an oven!
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September 28, 2002 3:16:59 PM

Sorry, but I don't know of any that ship to Europe. There's some good UK stores thought, like scan and microdirect. Oh...hmm... you just said Europe. By any chance, would you live in England?

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 28, 2002 4:13:55 PM

Run your RAM at 354MHz! That's not really considered overclocking and it will give much better performance in some areas.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
September 28, 2002 4:58:50 PM

No, I live in Portugal.
It's a beautiful country but we are very delayed technologically and everything is nearly twice the american price. Once I saw a P4 2.5 at 900€!
You'll have to excuse my ignorance but what is 2-2-5-1.5T?

My DVD reader is destroyed! I told you it wasn't an oven!
September 28, 2002 5:21:46 PM

Yeah, I'm gonna very soon, but I've gotta figure out how to do that first. It involves moving some jumpers I think. The P4B533 doesn't allow 3:4 RAM ratio above 132MHz FSB. I'll get it though, cause people do run 3:4 on that mobo @ 133MHz+.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 28, 2002 5:25:09 PM

Yeah, I know how you feel. Sometimes us Canadians also get price gouged, but I don't think as much as you do. Also, I have not a clue who ships to Portugal unfortunately.

2-2-5-1.5T is the RAM timings. I can't remember the exact meanings (CAS, RAS, whatever) but basically the lower the better. I believe that 2-2-5-1.5T is the strictest timings possible.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 28, 2002 8:13:49 PM

Wow, I didn't know you had your comp bought!
Congrats man, and congrats on gaining your own control of the PC, by building it. Did you enjoy putting the P4 and the HSF?
I wish I could one day try that! :smile:

BTW I think you should be getting higher than 10000 3d Marks under such setup, check THG's benches.
What I would have suggested, is seeing as RBC has the Asus P4S8X, using the SiS648 chipset, being one of the best damn value chipsets for P4, you could've bought DDR400 chips also from RB, and gotten PC1066 performance, which is nearly 20% better than DDR266. That would probably be where your setup has failed to reach 10K. I hope with the OCing, you can go far, with the bus AND RAM.

--
What made you choose your THG Community username/nickname? <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new">Tell here!</A>
September 28, 2002 10:43:18 PM

Not bad, keep on tweekin that thing! (I got my axp1900 with 512 pc2700 and a leadtekti4400 to 11000! so you have a wys to go) Keep workin at it though.

If an orange was driving a racecar would it peel out? www.jxfiles.com
September 28, 2002 11:22:31 PM

Chuck, I have a great idea! Forget about leaving your processor at 2.4GHz. Raise the FSB speed to 166MHz and you'll have an exact 3GHz processor and you're RAM will be running at stock. You can lock the PCI/AGP bus. In essence, you'll only have the processor overclocked. I'm willing to bet you'll only need ~1.6V to reach 3GHz, and your temps will be under 60c with the stock cooler!

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
September 28, 2002 11:25:36 PM

Yeah, man the feeling of first pushing that power button and the comp booting up... So sweet. Actually, it was kinda tense putting the HSF on. It was pretty tight and I thought I was gonna break something.

Really? I actually couldn't find a Ti4200 128MB review here :tongue: but over at HotHardware, they did one on a couple cards, including my MSI Ti4200 128MB. They used a P4 2.4B and an IT7 w/ Corsair PC2700 and got ~9600. When I had my RAM at SPD (3-3-6-2.5), I got ~9700 3D Marks, and now I get near 10K, so I'm happy. I'll tweak more and run my RAM at DDR354 like AMD_Man said, and I'll also overclock everything, so I should be ok. Only gonna overclock to show off my 3D Marks though :wink: . I'm aiming for at least 12K. Wish me luck!

I was thinking of getting that mobo, but the overclocking didn't seem to be very good. I got the P4B533 for $189, so it wasn't all that bad. I'm sure I could've done better, but I mean, games and such run fine now.

BTW, I love UT2003. Online gamin's sweet, although I suck bad at it.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 28, 2002 11:28:08 PM

Whoah nelly.... I just said I don't really need to overclock anything right now :tongue: . I don't mind pushing it for testing and such, but I wouldn't really enjoy running it that high for extended periods of time.

BTW 60C, that seems a bit high, considering right now ible, I barely do 30C, it hovers around 29-32C. Running 3D Mark, it gets to ~34-35C. And this is with the thermal pad and stock HSF.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 29, 2002 12:02:08 AM

Are you saying your RAM runs at CAS 3???

First things first, your RAM CAN run at PC2700, so start there, and switch to CAS 2. Dibs on you getting over 500 points with that alone. Your system has potential, unlock it young one!

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What made you choose your THG Community username/nickname? <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new">Tell here!</A>
September 29, 2002 12:12:59 AM

It'd be a shame not to run that 2.4b upto 2.7 (150fsb)
It probably do it at stock volts.

Running a Northy at stock speed is kinda 'underclocking' it.
September 29, 2002 2:56:55 AM

No, 3-3-6-2.5T is something like this. I can't really remember the exact names but...

3 is for RAS to CAS something....
3 is also for RAS cache precharge or something along those lines
6 is for something which I'm not sure
and 2.5T is the CAS Latency.

So therefore, I'm guessing it's CAS2.5, which is what the RAM is rated for at DDR333.

Hmmmm... tried overclocking loads of stuff and this is what I found.

I ran it at 2.8GHz (156MHz FSB) and 1.55V. Also, I went to 275/500 for the video card. Ran 3D Mark no problem. Temps were good, they were ~37C after running 3D Mark. <A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4616455" target="_new">Here's</A> my score. Wasn't exactly all that good at all. Then I tried 2.88GHz (160MHz FSB) @ 1.55V and 275/500 and no do. Then after that, I did 2.4GHz and video card at 300/500 and <A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4616623" target="_new">here's</A> my score.

After this, I got kinda disorganized. Went and did: 2.88GHz (160MHz FSB) @ 1.575V and DDR320 2-2-5-2T @ 2.7V and overclocked to 300/550 for the video card. Now it didn't work, but I know do not know whether it's the CPU, the RAM, or the video card that crapped out. Should've only changed 1 variable at a time, science class should've taught me at least that much :tongue: .

It's getting late now (almost midnight on the Canadian east coast) so, I'm gonna be heading off to bed very soon. I'll see if I can't organize myself and get this this going faster.

P.S. Seems like 12K may be a bit more difficult than I thought. Maybe I need the newer 40.41 nVidia drivers.... Seems like they helped a bit for other people. Also, I'll see if I can't run DDR320 @ 2-2-5-2T, whether it takes 2.9V or not. I don't really want to use too high a voltage though. I'm still just a paranoid guy.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 29, 2002 5:58:14 AM

hey chuck... do u play the original UT??? that game IS BETTER!!! if so.. do u play online??!?! if so let me know somehow... i wanna c your skillz

The greatest risk of all is not taking one!
September 29, 2002 12:57:08 PM

Nope never played the original, but I play online for UT2003. And I must say, I suck. In deathmatch, I got 17 kills and got killed 31 times.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 29, 2002 1:09:50 PM

Yes, the 40.41 will definitely increase your score by ~1000 pts, but from the posts I've seen on other forums they sacrifice a bit of IQ and are a bit buggy especially in UT2K3.

Quote:

After this, I got kinda disorganized. Went and did: 2.88GHz (160MHz FSB) @ 1.575V and DDR320 2-2-5-2T @ 2.7V and overclocked to 300/550 for the video card. Now it didn't work, but I know do not know whether it's the CPU, the RAM, or the video card that crapped out. Should've only changed 1 variable at a time, science class should've taught me at least that much.

I'm certain you can reach 3GHz (I nearly made it with my P4 2.26GHz under the stock cooler). Set your RAM ratio to 1:1, lock the AGP/PCI bus, set the VCore voltage to 1.6V and set the FSB speed to 166MHz.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
September 29, 2002 1:24:04 PM

Yeah, if I have time today, I'm gonna load up those drivers and see if I can't go a better overclock. I didn't try 1.6V last night, so I'll try it when I get a chance.

I heard about the bad IQ for the 40.41s. Something like the walls kinda flashed or something. I'm gonna try the 40.71s. If they're really crappy, I'll go back to the 30.82.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 29, 2002 1:39:06 PM

DON'T TRY EITHER!!!
Hopefully this message is read before you attempt the update!!!

Chuck, for one:
-You might notice an improvement with the new Det XPs, but in fact that was in the Nature test, my total score did not climb and in fact sounded lower.
-They don't seem to improve performance in UT2003, I have bad performance as it is, Dark_Archonis confirmed as well as Epic themselves, the new drivers have performance probs.
-Yes there are bugs in those BETA drivers, Battlefield 1942 has graphical font problems for example.
-I had the 40.71s 2 days ago, and thank god for System Restore, they screwed up my minimizing when I click on the program in the task bar(when it is already highlighted and you click again, you minimize), PLUS whenever I click between MSN windows, it stalls for some seconds, and in the end, IT CLOSES the entire MSN! On top of that, right clicking on the taskbar's open programs also has a delay time.

In conclusion, Chuck, stay with WHQL certified 30.82s. Chances are your performance will be better and stability MUCH more. I can't say much but nVidia should stop making Betas public, because it truly defaces their reputation of excellent drivers.

PS: You didn't specify which Windows you are now using!
I suppose WinXP Pro?
--
What made you choose your THG Community username/nickname? <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new">Tell here!</A><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 09/29/02 09:41 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
September 29, 2002 1:48:27 PM

Yeah, I use WinXP PRO. Hmm... I really wanted to push up my score, but maybe I'll use that as a last resort. Seems like people are getting 1000+ extra points... :frown:

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 29, 2002 8:50:12 PM

Despite your very sound advice, I decided to try out the 40.71 drivers, and WOW!! They helped me out a lot.

<A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4624863" target="_new">P4 2.4B; Ti4200 128MB all stock.</A>
<A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4624966" target="_new">P4 2.4B; Ti4200 128MB @ 300/500</A>
<A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4625131" target="_new">P4 2.4B @ 2.84GHz; Ti4200 128MB @ 300/540</A>

As you can see, I got about a 900 point increase just from the drivers. Now, I've gotta break 12K. The CPU overclocking didn't seem to do all that much, which leads me to believe that the Ti4200 is bottlenecking the system a bit.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 30, 2002 10:57:26 AM

Hey coolcat!

I'm from Spain, and I have already ask about a good online retailer ... no one knows. We will have to live with these high prices and limited stuff. The only thing that helps me a little bit is eBay. Sometimes retailers or even distributors sold articles just to have room for the new ones. That way you get a better price, but of course is not the last and newer.

Hope this helps and, if you ever know a place to buy, just tell me!

DIY: read, buy, test, learn, reward yourself!
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 30, 2002 11:40:45 AM

>I barely do 30C, it hovers around 29-32C. Running 3D
>Mark, it gets to ~34-35C.

I find this very hard to believe.. whatever tool you are using to read these temps has got to be confused. 30°C is just a few degrees above ambient (case), if not equal case temp, which is out of the question for any CPU that produces 55W of heat. Are you sure you're not reading case temperatures ? Go and look in the BIOS and verify...

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
September 30, 2002 2:36:12 PM

Is there any reason why you are not running all the 3dmark tests? Does it crash when you run them?

<font color=blue>Unofficial Forum Cop</font color=blue>
September 30, 2002 7:00:47 PM

ASUS Probe and BIOS both report ~30C idle. The lowest I've gotten is 28C idle.

My mobo temp is 24C. My basement is ~17-18C, so that may cool things down too.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 30, 2002 7:01:24 PM

No, doesn't crash, I'm just too lazy to wait around. I'll run them if ya want.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
September 30, 2002 7:25:45 PM

I didn't know if it affects the score or not. A lot of times, that is what people do to get it to run with thier massive overclocks.

<font color=blue>Unofficial Forum Cop</font color=blue>
September 30, 2002 8:21:55 PM

Pfff... my overclock's not massive at all and you need only the first the game tests to get a score and I was too lazy to wait that long for that many tests.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
September 30, 2002 9:15:27 PM

>ASUS Probe and BIOS both report ~30C idle

Then I wouldnt trust *either*.. seriously.. try disconnecting your CPU fan, see if it skyrockets to 60° or whatever temp b4 thermal throtteling kicks in. If it does, I stand corrected, and find this most impressive; but then again, I still use a 1400 Tbird, and up to 55°C doesnt scare me :-p

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =
September 30, 2002 9:39:34 PM

I like mwave.com
September 30, 2002 10:31:57 PM

Quote:
which is out of the question for any CPU that produces 55W of heat.

Intel's spec sheet for the 2.4B shows a "thermal design power" of 57.8 Watts. This is when the CPU is switching all transistors. However as you can read on several web sites out there, the P4 is aggressive in clock gating transistors that aren't being used. Check out page 4 of an <A HREF="http://www.intel.com/technology/itj/q12001/articles/art..." target="_new">Intel journal article</A>. 20 Watts were saved in one situation just by clock gating! Even in heavy load situations like 3D gaming, Crashman's P4 probably isn't dissipating more than 40W or so of power because much of the core is still unused.

Ritesh

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ritesh_laud on 09/30/02 05:44 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
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