XP 2800+ vs P4 2.8 (Maximum PC)

[phsstpok]

Anyone else read the article in Maximum PC?

This is the first time I have seen a comparision using supposedly top-of-the line platforms. The XP 2800 used a KT400 mobo. AMD suggested that Maximum PC use a DDR platform for the P4 but Maxim PC declined and opted for an Intel D850emv2 motherboard with PC1066 RDRAM. Nothing was overclocked so the XP 2800+ was at 266 Mhz and the P4 at 533 Mhz.

<b>[OOPS!]</b> I meant 333 Mhz, its default frequency, for the XP 2800!

Out of 33 tests the P4 took 27 and the XP only 6. Maximum PC even tried to favor the XP platform. Recently AMD had been making allegations that SYSMark2002 had been revised to favor the P4, so Maximum PC also ran the old SYSMark2001. They even ran a version of SYSMark2001 that was patched by AMD, to add SSE support for Windows Media Encoder. That's 3 benchmarks in each of the 3 SYSMark suites. Athlon XP lost all 9 benchmarks. Ouch! XP 2800+ was also beaten in all the gaming benchmarks, all the SPEV Viewperf benchmarks, and all but one of the Sandra benchmarks, winning only the CPU ALU benchmark.

This is one AMD fan who's almost ready to switch.

Comments?

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 10/17/02 05:25 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[spud]

Link so I may gawk.

-Jeremy

<font color=blue>Just some advice from your friendly neighborhood blue man </font color=blue>

 

[Guest]

I agree.. The AXP 2800+ only lives up to its name, when compared to a 2.8 P4 on DDR, and/or when coupled with a (non existant yet) nForce2 board. When you put it up against a P4+1066 RDRAM, using a KT333 or KT400 its clear which is the fastest.

Its a small consolidation the AXP still beats the P4 on price/performance, but thats a small relief considering the 2800+ is nowhere near being available.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[phsstpok]

Sorry dude, Maximum PC is a pen & paper magazine. In about 8 months they will probably have the re-print online.

The gist of the conclusions is P4 was on average 20% faster at about 25% excpected higher cost. Take that with a grain of salt. You can't get an Athlon XP 2800 yet. We are just starting to see the 2600 listed for OEM systems here in the USA and that might be pre-order. It will be a while before the CPUs are available direct. XP 2800 and P4 2.8 could be the same price by then.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

You sure about the cost? I heard that the XP2800+ was gonna retail for $497USD... That's not much at all below the 2.8GHz's selling price, acutally, I've seen 2.8GHz for <$500.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[phsstpok]

Maximum PC claimed $400, allowing for streetprice and the actual timing that the 2800+ hits the shelves.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

Yeah, but by then, who knows what the 2.8GHz will be selling for?

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[phsstpok]

You are missing the point. Even if everything goes as Maximum PC predicted the XP 2800+ barely maintains that best value title. If things go the other way then the XP 2800+ is just an expensive underperformer.

I definitely accept that the P4 has the better top performance. However, I never go for top performance because I'm cheap.

I actually saw something I liked about the Athlon XP information that I liked. I'm really hopeful that the entire XP line does adopt the Thoroughbred B core. With binning one might be able to pick up say an XP 1800+ (B core) which will overclock to 2800+ speeds (if lucky). Who knows, in six months I might be able get one of those for the price we now pay for the 1600+.

Frankly I'd be happy with just a Palomino XP and DDR platform. My KT133 and Tbird are getting a little long in the tooth but I'll wait some more.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

Hey, same with me man. I never go with top end (although might get a R9700 Pro for the heck of it) cause the price/performance is usually really whacked. I guess that's why I'm thinking about the R9700 Pro, it's not that bad for its price. I usually got 2-3 levels below the top end though. Cheap and still good performing. Although I'd love to have a top end computer someday.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[slickstaa]

I also read that article in MPC. Parallel to what we have seen online. All I have to say is woe to AMD when intel comes out with p4s with hyperthreading enabled. *shudders*

<font color=blue> If it ain't broke, don't fix it...tweak it.</font color=blue>

 

[phsstpok]

When I read in one of the other Maximum PC articles that the test system was prepared by Voodoo PC I took a quick look at their site. They have an ETA of November 15 for the 2800+. I'm guessing we won't see the processors on the shelves until December.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[knewt]

Most sites I've seen are forcasting as far out as 1Q03.

 

[Crashman]

Yeh, the 9700 is the first product I've seen in a long time that's performance to price ratio was still good regardless of it's top price.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>

 

[chuck232]

If they can get those CPUs out for Christmas, At least they won't still be with XP2400/2600+ vs. a P4 3.06GHz w/ HT... Oh well, if they sell for $400USD, AMD's gonna be in for a ride.....

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[phsstpok]

I hope you are wrong for AMD's sake. 1Q03 is when they need to be moving Barton.

Of course, even the Thoroughbred B deserves a good chipset. I hope production nForce2 boards are stable, and fast. I'm still hoping to see both nForce2 and Tbred B together, this year.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[phsstpok]

It makes a big difference to the enthusiasts but AMD was never popular with the big OEMs. AMD has always kind of just filled the niche of that cheap alternative, something below those top and middle OEM machines.

For the do-it-yourselfers and the small outfits, beginning with the Athlon Tbird 1.0 ghz, the AMD processors were once top choice. I don't see that happening again for AMD until possibly Hammer and I think the odds are slim at best.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[phsstpok]

Oh well, if they sell for $400USD, AMD's gonna be in for a ride.....

You might be right about the $400 being too low for an estimate. I just noticed 3 vendors on pricewatch listing the 2600+ for between $285-$322.50, ETA 10/29. Who knows what the price point will be for XP 2800+?

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 10/18/02 09:25 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Skipper007]

Hard to say about the US $400 part. Maximum PC's prices tend to be high, but that may just be the fact they have a longer publishing time than websites.

 

[chuck232]

Doesn't seem all that high if the XP2600+ is $300+

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[phsstpok]

Yeah, it's got to be difficult estimating prices with all the publishing delays. I think all you can do is use today's prices for the comparison, factor in discount pricing at expected release date. To difficult to factor in competitive pricing for future dates.

One thing I have to say, Maximum PC seems to be much more current than other computer magazines that I have read. If I recall they had 9700 benchmarks as early as any online site. Of course, that could have been controlled by NDA's

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[phsstpok]

Again it depends on timing. Didn't the 2200+ start selling at $300. If it takes 2 months the 2800+ might have to start at $300. I think AMD will be forced go even lower if 3.0+ Ghz P4's are out. This price war is killing AMD.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[chuck232]

If they start XP2800+ at $300, where's XP2600 and XP2400 gonna be. They can't keep on lowering the prices this far!

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[eden]

First of all:
They used a KT400 mobo. As far as I am concerned, KT400 is CRAP performance. Even KT333 would get it to have better scores. So there's one flaw.

Secondly, by the XP2800's launch in January, Nforce 2 will be out, and if anything, they SHOULD have used as almost all known HW websites did, the nForce 2 chipset. That alone could've balanced the tests to 50/50. That's a second flaw.

Even then, doesn't matter, as I have said in another thread, we have to start getting used to forgetting the AMD name in the front, and know them as a server based- CPU company for a while. If Opteron succeeds, they'll be back to compete, and it'll be AMD vs Intel. Until then, it's time to forget the competition, Intel will not have anything to rush, because AMD is to stop competing directly and most likely reduce losses and there will be only Intel for desktop x86.
Hard to predict how Intel will manage the pricing from then on!

--
"Let Go." -Avril Lavigne

 

[phsstpok]

Too many variables. Only engineering samples of nForce2 have been tested and the tests I have seen have problems, instabilities. However, I'll agree that next choice should have been KT333 not KT400.

50/50 I doubt it. Many of the tests are FPU and ALU benchmarks and combinations thereof. Those results won't change significantly. The advantages of P4+RDRAM and SSE2 are too big to overcome.

Don't believe for one second that AMD is getting out of the desktop market. I believe they will still fight for the "meat" of the market even if the can't compete for top performance. Intel will be right there fighting to stop AMD. Price wars will continue.

<b>I type sixty words per minute. Ten are spelled correctly.</b>

 

[eden]

They probably will, until they realize they really aren't fighting much against AMD since they are almost taunting Intel with paper launches!
In the end they'll feel they created some sort of virtual monopoly, even with 18% market share by AMD, since it is almost invisible and non-felt!

--
"Let Go." -Avril Lavigne