Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (
More info?)
Justisaur wrote:
> DougL wrote:
>
>>laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
>>
>>>Werebat wrote:
>>>
>>>>laszlo_spamhole@freemail.hu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Justisaur wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was playing around with making dungeons & encounters by the book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I found that if you actually use encounters as the DMG suggests:
>>>>>>overwhelming encounters (+5 to +7 EL) 1/20, Hard (+1 to +4) 3/20, Even
>>>>>>10/20, and Easy (-1 to -7) 6/10 like the DMG suggests, your pcs
>>>>>>actually get about half again more experience over the standard 13-14
>>>>>>encounters per level than they need to level. So this means they are
>>>>>>really leveling after about 9 encounters on average. Interestingly if
>>>>>>you just drop the overwhelming encounters off that, you are up to about
>>>>>>13 encounters per level.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have actually been using by the book in my random encounter
>>>>>>generator, this probably explains why my group levels much faster than
>>>>>>I think they should according to the book.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So the final question is does anyone actually use overwhelming
>>>>>>encounters, or is it just me? And if you were making a dungeon for
>>>>>>general consumption would you?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Er... if your players are regularly winning overwhelming encounters,
>>>>>you're doing something weird (probably fudging in their favour).
>>>>
>>>>Or they have twinked-out characters and/or are good strategists.
>>>
>>>Well, colour me skeptical. Unless, by "twinked out", you mean wealth
>>>and items far beyond the suggested amount for their level. At
>>>overwhelming (+5 CR) power disparities, good strategies and good
>>>powergaming just aren't enough to cut it, as a rule.
>>
>>I'm with Laszlo here. I use overwhelming encounters, and even if the
>>PC's win at least one of them looses a level for the raise dead
>>spell.... So the net EP change can easily be negative.
>>
>>+5 CR should be able to take the ENTIRE party on, dead fresh, and
>>win more than half the time. Parties are not always dead fresh
>>(neither are opponents, but that gives a substantial ad-hoc
>>adjustment).
>>
>>The key to these encounters is not to fight. Run, negotiate, get
>>allies, surrender, do something else, but don't simply stand and
>>fight.
>>
>>Most overwhelming foes are smart enough to concentrate on one foe
>>at a time, and do enough damage to leave that foe dead.
>>
>>Many have superior mobility and the ability to spot and kill the
>>wizard first, or area attacks and a real chance of a TPK.
>>
>
>
> As noted in my 1st reply to Lazlo, they don't usually win the first
> time, they usually run, a few die but they regroup and come back loaded
> for whatever it is, and ALWAYS win so far (o.k. 1 TPK at about 15th lv
> on my first 3.0 game, they did have a way of coming back, but the game
> broke up at that point). Probably what is affecting the leveling is
> the fact in my last campaign I made the level loss from raising only
> temporary. In my current campaign it's temporary with a chance of
> becoming permanent. If I went back to normal level loss I'd have some
> wildly disparate levels, as so far in my current campaign I've got 1
> person who's died 3 times, 1 never, and everyone else somewhere
> in-between, and the party is only 6th lv. I don't think the disparity
> would make it very fun for those who have died. They haven't been
> having much luck this time. My last campain only had 1 death by about
> 7. As a whole the group would indeed have less xp if the level loss
> was enforced, but it doesn't seem a great idea to me.
>
> But from the rest of the replies it sounds like people usually use
> overwhelming encounters, but only on things they can avoid (and get no
> xp for) or negotiate with (possibly no xp, or very little depending on
> interpretation). Or in a couple cases do expect them to fight, but a
> good portion of the party to die and thereby loose collectively as much
> xp as they gain, which would indeed take care of the extra xp problem I
> noticed. Not in a graceful maner, but it does do the trick.
>
> So with that in mind I will put in some overwhelming encounters, but
> the majority of which can be avoided or negotiated with. Like maybe
> "There's a Balor in the room!" (get the pc's heart racing) "There's a
> circle of silver dust on the floor though in which it stands. Don't
> sneeze!" That's one that can be easily avoided. Tempting things might
> be fun too. Like a flaming sword in a construct's hand, only animates
> if someone does something to disturb it, etc. And for the negotiatable
> ones, say a giant or somesuch guarding something, usually evil, but
> this one's neutral, doesn't really want to kill anyone, doesn't like
> it's job, so will allow anyone by with nearly any bluff, forged
> documents, distraction (yea! entertainment!) or whatnot. Antoher guard
> avoidance idea could be something big guarding one entrance to
> somewhere, but there are other entrances which are easier, but more
> well hidden. Then lastly I can use an overwhelming encounter for the
> big ol boss man.
I find that sometimes normal encounters can become overwhelming as a
result of PC actions. For example, they invade the bugbear caverns, and
kill two groups of bugbears before deciding to call it quits and return
to the surface to rest. Two of the bugbear leaders are rangers with
humans as a species enemy. The put together a bugbear posse of half the
warriors from the caves, suit up, and track the PCs back to their camp
to attack them while they sleep.
In these cases I try to think of logical reasons why the Bugbears (for
example) wouldn't put together an overwhelming encounter -- I don't
think I've ever gone beyond +5 CR. Say, they leave half of the warriors
behind on the off chance that this is a trick designed to lure them out
of their lair so the enemy can slip in and wipe out the defenseless
young and take their loot.
Most of the overwhelming encounters I set up aren't intended as such,
they just logically flow from PC actions (another good one is raising a
ruckus with sonic spells and getting the attention of nearby beasties).
- Ron ^*^
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