Good City Building Guides?

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Hi, a lurker here, hope you don't mind my dropping in.

I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting and have
been looking for guides for city design. So far all I've had to work
with are what I've managed to pull from the DMG and DMGII (which was
remarkably less than I'd hoped) and the DMG City Building supplement
available at WotC's Web site. I've also found a Web page on "Medieval
City Demographics Made Easy" which was helpful.

However, while all of these were helpful in getting a general sense of
what should be in the city (but also included some rather obvious
stuff) all are relatively vague (you should have guilds! there should
be temples!) or specific in relatively useless ways (I don't need to
know exactly how many chandlers and carters live in the city).

What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
on physical city structure (not every nitty gritty detail, but things
that might be useful to the story or things that the PCs might ask,
where generally barracks would be built, what neighborhoods would be
connected with what, where one would put temples (poor neighborhoods or
rich neighborhoods; all together or scattered), where to place city
gates and how many, and things like that. Samples of City Maps would be
nice (they are actually relatively few and far between on the 'Net). I
want to draw my own map but some guidelines would be helpful (I've
tried to do my own, but I or my friends keep finding logistical
problems so I'd like some guidance).

Other stuff like sample NPCs and plot hooks would be nice as well,
although I pretty much plan on working those up myself.

I have heard of one book called "Cityworks" from Legends and Lairs, but
I don't know if it's still in print or if it's any good.

If anyone has any suggestions--either online or print resources--that
would be extremely helpful.

Thanks very much!

Death Quaker!
http://www.deathquaker.org
18 answers Last reply
More about good city building guides
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    spam@deathquaker.org wrote:

    > Hi, a lurker here, hope you don't mind my dropping in.
    >
    > I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting and have
    > been looking for guides for city design. So far all I've had to work
    > with are what I've managed to pull from the DMG and DMGII (which was
    > remarkably less than I'd hoped) and the DMG City Building supplement
    > available at WotC's Web site. I've also found a Web page on "Medieval
    > City Demographics Made Easy" which was helpful.
    >
    > However, while all of these were helpful in getting a general sense of
    > what should be in the city (but also included some rather obvious
    > stuff) all are relatively vague (you should have guilds! there should
    > be temples!) or specific in relatively useless ways (I don't need to
    > know exactly how many chandlers and carters live in the city).
    >
    > What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
    > on physical city structure (not every nitty gritty detail, but things
    > that might be useful to the story or things that the PCs might ask,
    > where generally barracks would be built, what neighborhoods would be
    > connected with what, where one would put temples (poor neighborhoods or
    > rich neighborhoods; all together or scattered), where to place city
    > gates and how many, and things like that. Samples of City Maps would be
    > nice (they are actually relatively few and far between on the 'Net). I
    > want to draw my own map but some guidelines would be helpful (I've
    > tried to do my own, but I or my friends keep finding logistical
    > problems so I'd like some guidance).
    >
    > Other stuff like sample NPCs and plot hooks would be nice as well,
    > although I pretty much plan on working those up myself.
    >
    > I have heard of one book called "Cityworks" from Legends and Lairs, but
    > I don't know if it's still in print or if it's any good.
    >
    > If anyone has any suggestions--either online or print resources--that
    > would be extremely helpful.
    >
    > Thanks very much!
    >
    > Death Quaker!
    > http://www.deathquaker.org
    >

    I very much suggest that you find reconstructions of medieval cities,
    big and small. Maybe Roman, Greek, Egyptian, and Persian cities, too.
    This will teach you more about cities than most rulebooks.

    CH
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Let's see...

    Fantastic site with high 17th c. dutch city maps:
    http://grid.let.rug.nl/~welling/maps/blaeu.html

    A Magical Medieval City Guide, Free .pdf Download from RPGNow.com
    http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=1678&

    Massive Map/Cartography Archive
    http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/mp/links.html

    And I highly recommend Profantasy's products. They aren't cheap, but
    they are very useful.
    http://www.profantasy.com

    Gilgamesh Rex
    ------------------------
    My friend has died and half my heart is torn from me. Won't I soon be
    like him, stone cold and dead for all the days to come?
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    > Hi, a lurker here, hope you don't mind my dropping in.
    >
    > I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting and have
    > been looking for guides for city design. So far all I've had to work
    > with are what I've managed to pull from the DMG and DMGII (which was
    > remarkably less than I'd hoped) and the DMG City Building supplement
    > available at WotC's Web site. I've also found a Web page on "Medieval
    > City Demographics Made Easy" which was helpful.
    >

    I recommend a trip to your local library to photocopy some maps. I
    further recommend taking a look in the children's section. There are
    very many super cool history books designed to make ancient studies fun,
    and such produce excellent source material-- maps, cultural depictions,
    and especially military descriptions.

    I'm starting a campaign exploring ancient Vedic India, and children's
    books provide me tons of good stuff.
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    You might also drop by www.profantasy.com . They have some excellent city
    maps in their map library. You can download a free map viewer if you don't
    already have Campaign Cartographer. By the way, the City Designer add-on
    for that program can simplify the mapping process, if you're interested.
    You might also try posting for advice on the CC2 list...there's a link on
    the Profantasy website.

    Good luck.
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    > I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting ...
    >
    > What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
    > on physical city structure (not every nitty gritty detail, but things
    > that might be useful to the story or things that the PCs might ask,
    > where generally barracks would be built, what neighborhoods would be
    > connected with what, where one would put temples (poor neighborhoods or
    > rich neighborhoods; all together or scattered), where to place city
    > gates and how many, and things like that. Samples of City Maps would be
    > nice (they are actually relatively few and far between on the 'Net). I
    > want to draw my own map but some guidelines would be helpful (I've
    > tried to do my own, but I or my friends keep finding logistical
    > problems so I'd like some guidance).

    > If anyone has any suggestions--either online or print resources--that
    > would be extremely helpful.

    Cities... hmmm... let's see...

    Cities are originally built at the location of;

    1) Camps, campgrounds near good hunting grounds (hunter/gatherer)
    or near campgrounds near fertile land (agricultural).
    2) Convenient points along watercourses. (Transportation Hubs in
    protected bays, estuaries, or where land trade routes meet water
    trade routes.)
    3) Convenient geographical locales (At the base of mountains, At
    mountain passes, along the coast, on natural plains, near potable
    water, etc.)
    4) In areas with abundant natural resources. (Mines, Minerals,
    Wood, Oil, Stone or other raw materiels)
    5) In areas that are easily defended from attack (Hilltops,
    riverbends, river forks, mountaintops, mountain passes, along
    ridges, and in naturally sheltered areas [Caves & Caverns, or...
    craters, canyonlands, or on the lee side of mountains where the
    snowfall is less.)
    6) On top of older smaller settlements, or ruins.
    7) Religious or areas, or other areas with "Magical" or mystical
    properties.

    That being said, your city structure is first influenced by the
    local geography or "lay of the land".


    References;

    http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/city/origins/
    http://carnel.sdf-eu.org/carnel/City2.pdf
    http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2669
    http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/simcity/manual/history.html
    http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local/DHI/dhi.cgi?id=dv1-52

    Re,
    Dirk
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 5 Aug 2005 10:04:03 -0700, spam@deathquaker.org wrote:

    >What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
    >on physical city structure (not every nitty gritty detail, but things
    >that might be useful to the story or things that the PCs might ask,
    >where generally barracks would be built, what neighborhoods would be
    >connected with what, where one would put temples (poor neighborhoods or
    >rich neighborhoods; all together or scattered), where to place city
    >gates and how many, and things like that. Samples of City Maps would be
    >nice (they are actually relatively few and far between on the 'Net). I
    >want to draw my own map but some guidelines would be helpful (I've
    >tried to do my own, but I or my friends keep finding logistical
    >problems so I'd like some guidance).
    >
    >Other stuff like sample NPCs and plot hooks would be nice as well,
    >although I pretty much plan on working those up myself.
    >
    >I have heard of one book called "Cityworks" from Legends and Lairs, but
    >I don't know if it's still in print or if it's any good.
    >
    >If anyone has any suggestions--either online or print resources--that
    >would be extremely helpful.
    >
    >Thanks very much!
    >
    >Death Quaker!
    >http://www.deathquaker.org

    I can't really answer your question. I would follow the advice
    of the other correspondents here and head for the library.

    Once upon a time I used to collect fantasy cites but I gave up
    15 years ago so I can only tell you what used to be not what is.

    There have been a fair few of these made over the years and the
    general quality is not that good. But...,

    1) City State of the Invincible Overlord. I've never looked at
    it but it comes from about the same time as Haven

    2) City System (for Forgotten Realms); 1988; by TSR; for AD&D
    1e.

    Again lots of random encounter tables. A city called Waterdeep
    with no real heart or soul; very shallow.

    3) City Books; 1983-1990; Flying Buffolo; Generic but for AD&D
    (mainly).

    These 5 books are cookbooks for generic fantasy cities in
    vanilla fantasy backgrounds. Each one takes on a specific type
    of city (Port, etc.). Too generic; something like Minas Tirith
    has far more atmosphere.

    4) Tredroy; 1989; by SJ Games; Generic but for GURPs (mainly).

    No encounter tables. The map is not fold-out but is on 2 sides
    of the book. No floor-plans. The map is the worst thing about
    this city; the streets are laid out geometrically. The place
    names lack a fantasy atmosphere. It is supposed to be a city
    like medieval Jerusalem or Alexandria; a city where there are
    several distinct religious and ethnic communities.

    5) The City of Greyhawk; 1989; TRS; for AD&D.

    Large maps (4 of). 80 small scenarios on cards, 2 x 96 page
    booklets. In terms of production this was good value but it's
    not my idea of what a fantasy city would be like. The buildings
    are too far apart (not crowded as in a real city) so it looks
    like it is less than 100 or so years old but at the same time it
    is supposed to have an 'Undercity'. Much better than the wooden
    Waterdeep; but not my cup-of-tea.

    6) Haven, Free City of; 1981; by GameLords; Generic but for AD&D
    (mainly).

    Very detailed. City plan but skimpy on actual building floor
    plans. Production is basic (by today's standards). This may be
    too detailed for you in some areas (NPCs) to skimpy on others
    (floorplans). In 25 years the way FRPGs are played have changed
    a bit.

    7) Thieves World; 1981; by Chaosium; for 9 (yes 9) different
    systems including AD&D 1e, D&D 1e.

    Skimpy on the detail. City map, 2 maps of the 'Maze'. Hardly any
    floorplans (building plans). Most of the book consists of the
    random encounter tables which are some of the better tables
    you'll find in an RPG product.

    8) Minas Tirith; 1988; by ICE; for MERP.

    This is a better all-round product. It has floor plans. It lacks
    the random encounter tables and the descriptions are given over
    to places rather than NPCs. In use you would find this to be
    very specific to the world of MERP.

    9) Shadows of Bogenhafen; 1987; by Games Workshop; for WFRP

    I prefer this to most of the TSR cities I mentioned. But it is
    really a scenario based in a town. Skimpy on the city details.

    10) Lankhmar; 1989; TRS; for AD&D.

    Along with the actual city module there are a host of
    supplements for this city: 'Thieves of Lankhmar', 'Wonders of
    Lankhmar'. There are 2 editions: for 2e and 1e AD&D. My favorite
    of the early TSR cities.

    11) Arkham Unveiled; 1990; Chaosium; for Call of Cthulhu.

    Once more Chaosium come to the rescue showing them all how it
    should be done. The problem with this fantasy city is that it
    is, again, a large town and it is set in 1920s USA. But is has
    NPCs, plots, scenarios, a big fold-out map, floor-plans, and a
    town directory (so the GM can actually use it!). Makes you
    wonder what the other city builders were thinking of (or not
    thinking of). It's not the most atmospheric Chaosium module but
    it's bloody useful for Call of Cthulhu or any other game set in
    1920's USA.

    Cities I would like to get:

    1) Chaosium did a module for Stormbringer detailing the
    Melniboneans. Because Melniboneans nearly all live in their city
    of Imrryr, I'm guessing that this module must have quite a bit
    of detail on the dreaming city.

    2) The cities for WFRP look interesting. At least one Middenheim
    should be worth buying.

    As you can, few of the products I mentioned are heavy on the
    floorplans and where they are (Arkham & Minas Tirith) they
    aren't relevant to the type of city you want.
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    I found a few maps of London in my local libraries when I
    searched for them. Medieval London really consisted of the
    environs enclosed by the old Roman walls - the so-called "City";
    so any old map of london will have a similar street plans
    because I believe, after the great fire most of London was
    rebuilt (by the population) according to the old street plans.

    I found plans of the following towns and cities on the web a
    while ago. The vast majority of street-plans you find will be
    later then medieval. I can't remember the URLs but these are the
    places I found. With a little help from Google you should be
    able to get the same plans.

    Alkmaar
    Amfoort
    Amsterdam, 1544
    Oxford (England) 1605
    Palace Sargon, Turkey
    Paris, 1738
    Venice, various articles
    Rome, 15th Century
    St. Petersburg, 1731
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    > Hi, a lurker here, hope you don't mind my dropping in.
    >
    > I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting and have
    > been looking for guides for city design. So far all I've had to work
    > with are what I've managed to pull from the DMG and DMGII (which was
    > remarkably less than I'd hoped) and the DMG City Building supplement
    > available at WotC's Web site. I've also found a Web page on "Medieval
    > City Demographics Made Easy" which was helpful.
    >
    > However, while all of these were helpful in getting a general sense of
    > what should be in the city (but also included some rather obvious
    > stuff) all are relatively vague (you should have guilds! there should
    > be temples!) or specific in relatively useless ways (I don't need to
    > know exactly how many chandlers and carters live in the city).
    >
    > What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
    > on physical city structure (not every nitty gritty detail, but things
    > that might be useful to the story or things that the PCs might ask,
    > where generally barracks would be built, what neighborhoods would be
    > connected with what, where one would put temples (poor neighborhoods or
    > rich neighborhoods; all together or scattered), where to place city
    > gates and how many, and things like that. Samples of City Maps would be
    > nice (they are actually relatively few and far between on the 'Net). I
    > want to draw my own map but some guidelines would be helpful (I've
    > tried to do my own, but I or my friends keep finding logistical
    > problems so I'd like some guidance).
    >
    > Other stuff like sample NPCs and plot hooks would be nice as well,
    > although I pretty much plan on working those up myself.
    >
    > I have heard of one book called "Cityworks" from Legends and Lairs, but
    > I don't know if it's still in print or if it's any good.
    >
    > If anyone has any suggestions--either online or print resources--that
    > would be extremely helpful.
    >
    > Thanks very much!
    >
    > Death Quaker!
    > http://www.deathquaker.org
    >

    One general work that gives you a good idea of why cities in RL grew the
    way they did is
    "An Atlas Of Rare City Maps: Comparative Urban Design, 1830-1842" by
    Melville Branch.
    You can pick up a used copy online for about 25 bucks and it's well
    worth it, not only for
    the many interesting maps but also for the information on the growth of
    the cities based on
    their peculiar geographies.

    Another one that helps is "The History Of London In Maps" by Felix
    Barker and Peter Jackson.
    This one chronicles how London grew from its earliest days to the
    present, and of special interest
    is the section showing how the Great Fire changed much of the city's
    layout by flattening old twisty
    and congested streets, making straight line streets possible and thus
    facilitating traffic movement
    and more growth. 'Tis more expensive--the cheapest copy currently
    online is about 43 dollars--but
    it's got more maps from the time period you are interested in than the
    first book I mentioned.
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> writes

    <snip>
    >That being said, your city structure is first influenced by the local
    >geography or "lay of the land".

    This is the absolute major. Sketching out the local area surrounding
    the city, complete with resources and terrain, will almost dictate the
    lay and parameters defining the city. A city won't be a city unless it
    can support itself, has a reason to grow (including some nicety or other
    that makes people want to live there), and has the room to do it.

    Retro-fitting resources to a city design can be done, but it's easier to
    start with the basic necessities.

    --
    Ian R Malcomson
    "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Oberon wrote:
    > On 5 Aug 2005 10:04:03 -0700, spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    >
    <snip request for help drawing city maps, city structure, actual maps>
    >
    >> Other stuff like sample NPCs and plot hooks would be nice as well,
    >> although I pretty much plan on working those up myself.
    >
    <snip>
    >
    > 2) City System (for Forgotten Realms); 1988; by TSR; for AD&D
    > 1e.
    >
    > Again lots of random encounter tables. A city called Waterdeep
    > with no real heart or soul; very shallow.
    >
    <snip>

    The 1E module FR1 Waterdeep and the North and the 2E boxed set City of
    Splendors have more information on Waterdeep's physical structure,
    including maps.

    The 2E "Volo's Guide to" series (Waterdeep, the North, the Sword Coast,
    Cormyr, the Dalelands) had detailed information about various FR
    cities, NPC's and plot hooks.

    > Cities I would like to get:
    >
    > 1) Chaosium did a module for Stormbringer detailing the
    > Melniboneans. Because Melniboneans nearly all live in their city
    > of Imrryr, I'm guessing that this module must have quite a bit
    > of detail on the dreaming city.
    >
    <snip>

    Melniboné - Dragon Isle and Dreaming City (1993).

    Has some information about the fortifications and architecture of
    Imrryr, but the map on page 23 isn't very useful. It does have NPC's,
    plot hooks and 3 small scenarios, but it's in the Elric system.


    Arivne
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mere moments before death, Ian R Malcomson hastily scrawled:
    >Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> writes
    >
    ><snip>
    >>That being said, your city structure is first influenced by the local
    >>geography or "lay of the land".
    >
    >This is the absolute major. Sketching out the local area surrounding
    >the city, complete with resources and terrain, will almost dictate the
    >lay and parameters defining the city. A city won't be a city unless it
    >can support itself, has a reason to grow (including some nicety or other
    >that makes people want to live there), and has the room to do it.
    >
    >Retro-fitting resources to a city design can be done, but it's easier to
    >start with the basic necessities.

    I like to plan my cities out organically, starting at some primary
    resource (which will virtually always be water) and working my way
    out. I then lay out development "zones" as a sort of timeline.
    Remember, the middle of the city will almost always have the larger
    buildings and be more crowded, but this trend tends to also stand for
    individual "zones".

    At any rate, I almost never lay out a city on a comprehensive,
    house-by-house basis. Just map out the large/important buildings and
    major roadways. Leave the rest as just a guideline for what sorts of
    buildings/businesses are in a given area. Small towns and villages,
    on the other hand, I sometimes get down to room level detail.


    Ed Chauvin IV

    --
    DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is X-rated in that to calculate L,
    use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
    kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS homosexuality mathematically, using
    modifier G @ 11.

    "I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
    --Terry Austin
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Mere moments before death, Oberon hastily scrawled:
    >
    >2) The cities for WFRP look interesting. At least one Middenheim
    >should be worth buying.

    Middenheim is great. It's got a relatively high level of detail, and
    is a very interesting city location. It's built on top of a
    flat-topped mountain (think Devil's Tower), and the only way to reach
    it is by causeway, or lift (or flying, I suppose, though that's less
    common in WFRP).


    Ed Chauvin IV

    --
    DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is X-rated in that to calculate L,
    use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
    kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS homosexuality mathematically, using
    modifier G @ 11.

    "I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
    --Terry Austin
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Oberon wrote:
    > I found a few maps of London in my local libraries when I
    > searched for them. Medieval London really consisted of the
    > environs enclosed by the old Roman walls - the so-called "City";
    > so any old map of london will have a similar street plans
    > because I believe, after the great fire most of London was
    > rebuilt (by the population) according to the old street plans.
    >
    > I found plans of the following towns and cities on the web a
    > while ago. The vast majority of street-plans you find will be
    > later then medieval. I can't remember the URLs but these are the
    > places I found. With a little help from Google you should be
    > able to get the same plans.

    Hmmm... One of my favorite sites is Hipkiss' Scanned old maps site
    at the following URL.

    http://www.hipkiss.org/data/maps.html

    Fantastic for early european towns & cities on the web, with
    decent maps that are easily available for printing or study. This
    should be a good primary research site for you.

    With Regards,
    Dirk
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Oberon <oberon@solstice.com> wrote:
    >
    > 1) City State of the Invincible Overlord. I've never looked at
    > it but it comes from about the same time as Haven

    Recently rereleased (Necromancer? I forget, it's upstairs)

    > 2) City System (for Forgotten Realms); 1988; by TSR; for AD&D
    > 1e.

    *not* a lot useful. Really.

    Well... not *entirely* true. The cardboard models could be useful, I
    guess.

    > 10) Lankhmar; 1989; TRS; for AD&D.
    >
    > Along with the actual city module there are a host of
    > supplements for this city: 'Thieves of Lankhmar', 'Wonders of
    > Lankhmar'. There are 2 editions: for 2e and 1e AD&D. My favorite
    > of the early TSR cities.

    Also, IIRC, included geomorphs for the city (small maps you can put
    together in arbitrary order)

    > 11) Arkham Unveiled; 1990; Chaosium; for Call of Cthulhu.
    >
    > Once more Chaosium come to the rescue showing them all how it
    > should be done. The problem with this fantasy city is that it
    > is, again, a large town and it is set in 1920s USA. But is has
    > NPCs, plots, scenarios, a big fold-out map, floor-plans, and a
    > town directory (so the GM can actually use it!). Makes you
    > wonder what the other city builders were thinking of (or not
    > thinking of). It's not the most atmospheric Chaosium module but
    > it's bloody useful for Call of Cthulhu or any other game set in
    > 1920's USA.

    Kingspoint from Goldtree comes to mind. It was a (Foxpro?) database
    with a front end, you could 'navigate' the city, store NPCs, etc. I
    bought it (on sale) and it looked neat at the time, but I really never
    found a use for it beyond "oh, cool"


    Keith
    --
    Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
    keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
    keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
    http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    Dirk Collins wrote:
    > spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    > > I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting ...
    > >
    > > What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
    > > on physical city structure (not every nitty gritty detail, but things
    > > that might be useful to the story or things that the PCs might ask,
    > > where generally barracks would be built, what neighborhoods would be
    > > connected with what, where one would put temples (poor neighborhoods or
    > > rich neighborhoods; all together or scattered), where to place city
    > > gates and how many, and things like that. Samples of City Maps would be
    > > nice (they are actually relatively few and far between on the 'Net). I
    > > want to draw my own map but some guidelines would be helpful (I've
    > > tried to do my own, but I or my friends keep finding logistical
    > > problems so I'd like some guidance).
    >
    > > If anyone has any suggestions--either online or print resources--that
    > > would be extremely helpful.
    >
    > Cities... hmmm... let's see...
    >
    > Cities are originally built at the location of;
    <snip useful basics>


    > References;
    >
    > http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/city/origins/
    > http://carnel.sdf-eu.org/carnel/City2.pdf
    > http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2669
    > http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/simcity/manual/history.html
    > http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local/DHI/dhi.cgi?id=dv1-52

    Thank you--and all the other posters--for very helpful advice and
    sources. These are great places to start... and I might check out
    ProFantasy as well.

    Thanks again,

    Death Quaker!
    http://www.deathquaker.org
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    > Dirk Collins wrote:
    >
    >>spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    >>
    >>>I am running a campaign that will start in an urban setting ...
    >>http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/faculty/hodgson/Courses/city/origins/
    >>http://carnel.sdf-eu.org/carnel/City2.pdf
    >>http://www.unknowncountry.com/news/?id=2669
    >>http://www.art.net/~hopkins/Don/simcity/manual/history.html
    >>http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/cgi-local/DHI/dhi.cgi?id=dv1-52
    >
    >
    > Thank you--and all the other posters--for very helpful advice and
    > sources. These are great places to start... and I might check out
    > ProFantasy as well.
    >
    > Thanks again,
    >
    > Death Quaker!
    > http://www.deathquaker.org
    >

    A tremendous online resource is the world builder resource. Geared to
    gaming. http://www.geocities.com/worldbuildingonline/
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    spam@deathquaker.org wrote:
    >
    > Thank you--and all the other posters--for very helpful advice and
    > sources. These are great places to start... and I might check out
    > ProFantasy as well.

    I'd reply to the original, but I fell behind in my post-reading and
    didn't download it. Anyway -- I've found _Cityworks_, from Legends &
    Lairs, and the DMG II to both be quite useful. I won't say that my
    cities are actually *good*, but I can at least map them out, which is
    more than I could say without these resources. :)

    -Will
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

    On 5 Aug 2005 10:04:03 -0700, spam@deathquaker.org wrote:

    >What I _really_ would like are suggestions on how to draw city maps and
    >on physical city structure

    Here are some maps.

    <http://grid.let.rug.nl/~welling/maps/>
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