Physician, Heal Thyself! - Heal skill

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Greetings!

The rule that you cannot use the Heal skill on yourself has always bothered
me. Think of it this way: a guy gets injured in the woods, and needs to
heal and patch himself up. If this guy is a doctor, is he better off than
if he is just some random mook? I say "yes". However, I *do* agree that it
is easier to care for someone else than yourself. Therefore, I am thinking
that a -5 penalty for working on yourself would be reasonable (and, of
course, this counts as light activity, so you are not eligible for the "full
day's rest" healing). Opinions?

Note that this is especially important in Iron Heroes, where someone with
multiple Healing Lore feats can do quite a bit of patching up with a good
Heal check.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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Malachias Invictus wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> The rule that you cannot use the Heal skill on yourself has always bothered
> me. Think of it this way: a guy gets injured in the woods, and needs to
> heal and patch himself up. If this guy is a doctor, is he better off than
> if he is just some random mook? I say "yes". However, I *do* agree that it
> is easier to care for someone else than yourself. Therefore, I am thinking
> that a -5 penalty for working on yourself would be reasonable (and, of
> course, this counts as light activity, so you are not eligible for the "full
> day's rest" healing). Opinions?

Makes sense to me.

Laszlo

 

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Malachias Invictus wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> The rule that you cannot use the Heal skill on yourself has always bothered
> me. Think of it this way: a guy gets injured in the woods, and needs to
> heal and patch himself up. If this guy is a doctor, is he better off than
> if he is just some random mook? I say "yes". However, I *do* agree that it
> is easier to care for someone else than yourself. Therefore, I am thinking
> that a -5 penalty for working on yourself would be reasonable (and, of
> course, this counts as light activity, so you are not eligible for the "full
> day's rest" healing). Opinions?

Soounds reasonable. Besides, we have cinematic evidence that you can do
that:

http://tinyurl.com/8rhff

http://tinyurl.com/e4jol

 

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On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:56:20 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Greetings!
>
> The rule that you cannot use the Heal skill on yourself has always bothered
> me. Think of it this way: a guy gets injured in the woods, and needs to
> heal and patch himself up. If this guy is a doctor, is he better off than
> if he is just some random mook? I say "yes". However, I *do* agree that it
> is easier to care for someone else than yourself. Therefore, I am thinking
> that a -5 penalty for working on yourself would be reasonable (and, of
> course, this counts as light activity, so you are not eligible for the "full
> day's rest" healing). Opinions?

The only activity that it actually says explictly that you can perform
on yourself is long-term healing. It does talk a lot about 'on your
friends' and so on, but the actual system info doesn't say that.
Besides, if you truely can't, no one can patch up a hole in their foot
from a caltrop, etc. Makes 'self-sufficient' a silly name for the +2
Heal/Survival feat, too.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

[KAOS]

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On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:05:35 +1200, Rupert Boleyn
<rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> dared speak in front of ME:

>On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 10:56:20 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
><capt_malachias@hotmail.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> The rule that you cannot use the Heal skill on yourself has always bothered
>> me. Think of it this way: a guy gets injured in the woods, and needs to
>> heal and patch himself up. If this guy is a doctor, is he better off than
>> if he is just some random mook? I say "yes". However, I *do* agree that it
>> is easier to care for someone else than yourself. Therefore, I am thinking
>> that a -5 penalty for working on yourself would be reasonable (and, of
>> course, this counts as light activity, so you are not eligible for the "full
>> day's rest" healing). Opinions?
>
>The only activity that it actually says explictly that you can perform
>on yourself is long-term healing.

I presume you meant "cannot perform"?

The writeup in IH (which, as I've misplaced my core books, is what I
have available atm) describes the skill as being used to treat allies.
But it still only explicitly mentions that you can't do long-term care
on yourself - implying that you should be able to do the rest for
yourself (at least where appropriate - it's hard to give yourself
'first aid' if you're disabled...)

So the -5 for treating oneself is technically a bit of a nerf unless
used to give long-term care to one's self. (And in IH, it doesn't
seem inappropriate to model it as a skill challenge, which may be
where Mal got the modifier from anyway...)
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"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:ll7df1h8sn7qedovvj07icjhnp7gnen580@4ax.com...

> So the -5 for treating oneself is technically a bit of a nerf unless
> used to give long-term care to one's self.

That is what I was referring to, actually ;-)

> (And in IH, it doesn't seem inappropriate to model it as a skill
> challenge, which may be
> where Mal got the modifier from anyway...)

Pretty much.

By the way, have you noticed the wonkiness with the Healing section and the
Heal skill? Here is what I have:

Without long term care (p. 187-188):

8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain reserve points equal to "your
Constitution score + your level"
Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain reserve points equal to
"double your Constitution score + your level"

With long term care (p.93):

First, it states "the patient recovers reserve points...at twice the normal
rate."

8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain "4 reserve points per level +
double Constitution score in reserve points"
Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain "8 reserve points per level +
quadruple Constitution score in reserve points"

Questions:
Is "Consitution score" meant to be "Constitution bonus"?
From the context on p. 93, it seems like "double your Constitution score +
your level" is supposed to mean "double your Constitution score + double
your level." Is this the case?
Even though the Heal skill states "the patient recovers reserve points...at
twice the normal rate," the actual numbers show that the patient recovers
the "reserve points per level" at quadruple the normal rate. Is this an
error?
Under Healing Lore Masteries 1, 3, 7, and 9 (p. 131-132), it states "when
you restore a character's reserve points, you grant a +X bonus to the total
points restored." Is this meant to only apply to the "Treat Wounds" use of
the skill, or "Long Term Care" as well?

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

[KAOS]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:10:25 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> dared speak in front of ME:

>
>"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
>news:ll7df1h8sn7qedovvj07icjhnp7gnen580@4ax.com...
>
>> So the -5 for treating oneself is technically a bit of a nerf unless
>> used to give long-term care to one's self.
>
>That is what I was referring to, actually ;-)
>
>> (And in IH, it doesn't seem inappropriate to model it as a skill
>> challenge, which may be
>> where Mal got the modifier from anyway...)
>
>Pretty much.
>
>By the way, have you noticed the wonkiness with the Healing section and the
>Heal skill? Here is what I have:
>
>Without long term care (p. 187-188):
>
>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain reserve points equal to "your
>Constitution score + your level"
>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain reserve points equal to
>"double your Constitution score + your level"

>With long term care (p.93):
>
>First, it states "the patient recovers reserve points...at twice the normal
>rate."
>
>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain "4 reserve points per level +
>double Constitution score in reserve points"
>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain "8 reserve points per level +
>quadruple Constitution score in reserve points"
>
>Questions:
>Is "Consitution score" meant to be "Constitution bonus"?

I'd assume it's as written until informed otherwise, but the
difference is big enough that it's worth asking.

>From the context on p. 93, it seems like "double your Constitution score +
>your level" is supposed to mean "double your Constitution score + double
>your level." Is this the case?
>Even though the Heal skill states "the patient recovers reserve points...at
>twice the normal rate," the actual numbers show that the patient recovers
>the "reserve points per level" at quadruple the normal rate. Is this an
>error?

Not sure where you get that from. Without a healer, 8 hours of rest
gets you (con + level) back; with a healer, 8 hours gives you 4 +
2*con. (Plus bonuses for Healing Lore.)

That's better than double at level one, exactly double at level two,
and not quite double beyond that.
(Similar for full days rest, except base is double.)

The interesting thing is that long-term care does not directly improve
your HP recovery. It improves your Reserve Points recovery rate,
which you can then spend recovering hitpoints (at a rate of one per
minute of nonstrenuous activity, while reserves last.)

>Under Healing Lore Masteries 1, 3, 7, and 9 (p. 131-132), it states "when
>you restore a character's reserve points, you grant a +X bonus to the total
>points restored." Is this meant to only apply to the "Treat Wounds" use of
>the skill, or "Long Term Care" as well?

I would assume it works for either.
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"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:s8qdf11h7i334t1i9lcq4ae28k661o7gov@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:10:25 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> dared speak in front of ME:
>
>>
>>"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
>>news:ll7df1h8sn7qedovvj07icjhnp7gnen580@4ax.com...
>>
>>> So the -5 for treating oneself is technically a bit of a nerf unless
>>> used to give long-term care to one's self.
>>
>>That is what I was referring to, actually ;-)
>>
>>> (And in IH, it doesn't seem inappropriate to model it as a skill
>>> challenge, which may be
>>> where Mal got the modifier from anyway...)
>>
>>Pretty much.
>>
>>By the way, have you noticed the wonkiness with the Healing section and
>>the
>>Heal skill? Here is what I have:
>>
>>Without long term care (p. 187-188):
>>
>>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain reserve points equal to "your
>>Constitution score + your level"
>>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain reserve points equal to
>>"double your Constitution score + your level"
>
>>With long term care (p.93):
>>
>>First, it states "the patient recovers reserve points...at twice the
>>normal
>>rate."
>>
>>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain "4 reserve points per level +
>>double Constitution score in reserve points"
>>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain "8 reserve points per level
>>+
>>quadruple Constitution score in reserve points"
>>
>>Questions:
>>Is "Consitution score" meant to be "Constitution bonus"?
>
> I'd assume it's as written until informed otherwise, but the
> difference is big enough that it's worth asking.
>
>>From the context on p. 93, it seems like "double your Constitution score +
>>your level" is supposed to mean "double your Constitution score + double
>>your level." Is this the case?
>>Even though the Heal skill states "the patient recovers reserve
>>points...at
>>twice the normal rate," the actual numbers show that the patient recovers
>>the "reserve points per level" at quadruple the normal rate. Is this an
>>error?
>
> Not sure where you get that from.

Page 93 - ""4 reserve points per level + double Constitution score in
reserve points"

> Without a healer, 8 hours of rest
> gets you (con + level) back; with a healer, 8 hours gives you 4

....per level...

> + 2*con. (Plus bonuses for Healing Lore.)
>
> That's better than double at level one, exactly double at level two,
> and not quite double beyond that.

It is exactly quadruple the "reserve points per level" portion.

> (Similar for full days rest, except base is double.)
>
> The interesting thing is that long-term care does not directly improve
> your HP recovery. It improves your Reserve Points recovery rate,
> which you can then spend recovering hitpoints (at a rate of one per
> minute of nonstrenuous activity, while reserves last.)

....which leaves you low on reserve points that day, if you were badly hurt
the previous one. I believe this is intentional.

>>Under Healing Lore Masteries 1, 3, 7, and 9 (p. 131-132), it states "when
>>you restore a character's reserve points, you grant a +X bonus to the
>>total
>>points restored." Is this meant to only apply to the "Treat Wounds" use
>>of
>>the skill, or "Long Term Care" as well?
>
> I would assume it works for either.

I am not so sure, since with the former option, you are restoring a
character's reserve points, whereas with the latter, you are boosting
natural reserve point healing. It could use some clarification, especially
since the small amount of flat bonus is not much for long term healing
(adding +X to the "character level" in the calculation would be interesting,
though).

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 18:51:25 -0600, Kaos <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> >The only activity that it actually says explictly that you can perform
> >on yourself is long-term healing.
>
> I presume you meant "cannot perform"?

Gah. Yes.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."

 

[KAOS]

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 06:58:04 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
<capt_malachias@hotmail.com> dared speak in front of ME:

>"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
>news:s8qdf11h7i334t1i9lcq4ae28k661o7gov@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:10:25 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
>> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> dared speak in front of ME:
>>
>>>
>>>"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
>>>news:ll7df1h8sn7qedovvj07icjhnp7gnen580@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>Without long term care (p. 187-188):
>>>
>>>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain reserve points equal to "your
>>>Constitution score + your level"
>>>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain reserve points equal to
>>>"double your Constitution score + your level"
>>
>>>With long term care (p.93):
>>>
>>>First, it states "the patient recovers reserve points...at twice the
>>>normal
>>>rate."
>>>
>>>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain "4 reserve points per level +
>>>double Constitution score in reserve points"
>>>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain "8 reserve points per level
>>>+
>>>quadruple Constitution score in reserve points"
>>>
>>>Questions:
>>>Is "Consitution score" meant to be "Constitution bonus"?
>>
>> I'd assume it's as written until informed otherwise, but the
>> difference is big enough that it's worth asking.
>>
>>>From the context on p. 93, it seems like "double your Constitution score +
>>>your level" is supposed to mean "double your Constitution score + double
>>>your level." Is this the case?
>>>Even though the Heal skill states "the patient recovers reserve
>>>points...at
>>>twice the normal rate," the actual numbers show that the patient recovers
>>>the "reserve points per level" at quadruple the normal rate. Is this an
>>>error?
>>
>> Not sure where you get that from.
>
>Page 93 - ""4 reserve points per level + double Constitution score in
>reserve points"

Gah. Not sure how I missed the 'per level' part.

It's still not quadruple the total rate, though. It's quadruple one
part and double the other.
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"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:afiff1hih2biqjcou7gbefivapluf4gis9@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 06:58:04 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> dared speak in front of ME:
>
>>"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
>>news:s8qdf11h7i334t1i9lcq4ae28k661o7gov@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 7 Aug 2005 19:10:25 -0700, "Malachias Invictus"
>>> <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> dared speak in front of ME:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:ll7df1h8sn7qedovvj07icjhnp7gnen580@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Without long term care (p. 187-188):
>>>>
>>>>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain reserve points equal to
>>>>"your
>>>>Constitution score + your level"
>>>>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain reserve points equal to
>>>>"double your Constitution score + your level"
>>>
>>>>With long term care (p.93):
>>>>
>>>>First, it states "the patient recovers reserve points...at twice the
>>>>normal
>>>>rate."
>>>>
>>>>8 Hours Rest: 1 hit point/level, plus regain "4 reserve points per level
>>>>+
>>>>double Constitution score in reserve points"
>>>>Full Day Rest: 2 hit points/level, plus regain "8 reserve points per
>>>>level
>>>>+
>>>>quadruple Constitution score in reserve points"
>>>>
>>>>Questions:
>>>>Is "Consitution score" meant to be "Constitution bonus"?
>>>
>>> I'd assume it's as written until informed otherwise, but the
>>> difference is big enough that it's worth asking.
>>>
>>>>From the context on p. 93, it seems like "double your Constitution score
>>>>+
>>>>your level" is supposed to mean "double your Constitution score + double
>>>>your level." Is this the case?
>>>>Even though the Heal skill states "the patient recovers reserve
>>>>points...at
>>>>twice the normal rate," the actual numbers show that the patient
>>>>recovers
>>>>the "reserve points per level" at quadruple the normal rate. Is this an
>>>>error?
>>>
>>> Not sure where you get that from.
>>
>>Page 93 - ""4 reserve points per level + double Constitution score in
>>reserve points"
>
> Gah. Not sure how I missed the 'per level' part.
>
> It's still not quadruple the total rate, though.

That is why I said "the actual numbers show that the patient recovers the
'reserve points per level' at quadruple the normal rate."

;-)

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley