The power of the thunderbird

flamethrower205 · Dec 3, 2002

I know that the AMD Thunderbirds are a little dated, but out of all the processors, I have the greatest respect for them. They really are solid, extremely processors. I do a lot of quantum computer simulations on my comp (1.2Ghz T-Bird) and they just fly. I mean this thing does them in a flash. I have tried using the same simulation on a 2.0Ghz P4 system, but it wasn't nearly as fast. Recently, my dad used my comp for some serious number crunching work (he's the head of a hedgefund) and he was impressed- my system blew his dualie 1.8Ghz system away. The Thunderbirds are really something else.
Don't mean to start flame wars or anything, just paying my respects to this amazing processor.

Kentucky: 15 million people, 5 last names....

tombance · Dec 3, 2002

I take it that has something to do with the athlons powerful ALU unit. If you compare it to a p4 in sandra on the arithmatic benchmark youll see that the athlons and AXPs will beat p4s of much higher clockspeeds.

imgod2u · Dec 3, 2002

Quantum simulations sounds like a lot of FP intensive work coupled with tons of bitshifts, something that hits the P4 square on its weak spot.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.

Era · Dec 3, 2002

Not "Arithmetic Loitering Unit", try Google or elgooG and write FPU or UPF and check it out.

Now why I'm writing this?
Beets me.

I think I'll go home.

Grub · Dec 3, 2002

I gotta agree with you on this one, too. I have two systems, one is a Xeon P4 2.0 Ghz and the other is a athlon xp 1600 Oc'd to 1800. I crunch seti units on both and the athlon smokes the xeon. I found that extremly suprising. THe xeon has 256k more L1 cache, but can't keep up with the athlon running at 1530 mhz.

...ummm...sorry, I forgot what I was going to say...

phial · Dec 3, 2002

yeah i too have a great respect for the thunderbird and athlonXP architecture... its such a proven chip that AMD has been using it for a while now.

the thunderbird really was the best chip out there during its time... no comparison, hands down. i dont care WHAT jargon intel fanbois throw at me =)

slvr_phoenix · Dec 3, 2002

Quantum simulations sounds like a lot of FP intensive work coupled with tons of bitshifts, something that hits the P4 square on its weak spot.

That was my thought as well. It's probably incredibly bitshift intensive as this used to be a very good way to optimize performance in software ... until the P4 came along. I really wish Intel would just go back to the old method.

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=45775#45775" target="_new">Join the THGC LAN Party!</A>

MeTaLrOcKeR · Dec 3, 2002

I agree with you man...Im very much impressed with the K7 Architecture...its by far the most efficient CPU Architecture.....compare its gates....die size.....and stuff it has in it......its just awesome.......

My XP 1600+ system oc'd to 1.660GHz is awesome.......very impressed with it...
My Duron 750 System OC'd to 1000Mhz 133MHz FSB......VERY impressed with it...considering i paid $50 CDN for the MB, CPU and HSF.....

All respect to those at AMD.....

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=13597" target="_new">-MeTaL RoCkEr</A>

eden · Dec 3, 2002

Have you already done some coding optimized for the P4's "lackey" components?
If so, is that where your opinion stems from or from a general programmers' POV on such important features?

--
The THGC Photo Album project,<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">CLICK HERE!</A>

slvr_phoenix · Dec 3, 2002

Have you already done some coding optimized for the P4's "lackey" components?
If so, is that where your opinion stems from or from a general programmers' POV on such important features?

Because if the P4's initial crap performance and such a bad experience when the company first evaluated a P4 system, my company has as of yet to officially support the P4. Hence, I've not done any optimization specifically for a P4 ... yet. I've only researched it so far. So my opinion stems from reading other people's experiences optimizing for a P4.

However, the company is currently evaluating a P4 2.8GHz system with an 845 chipset and 1GB of DDR333. (I'd have configured better myself, but the company always goes with a particular OEM, so I don't have much say. Heh heh.) So sooner or later I may finally get to (have to) optimize code for a P4.

Then again, that may not mean much. At one time the company also evaluated an Athlon system. The darn VIA chipset though made it so unstable that the comany decided to strongly avoid Athlons forever after. (Which kind of sucks if you ask me...)

So basically, I may never get to use a decent CPU at work. I think we're still shipping systems that are only P3 850MHz with PC100 SDRAM. My work PC is only a P3 750MHz.

Go figure.

Needless to say, one does not always get to work with what one wants.

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=45775#45775" target="_new">Join the THGC LAN Party!</A>

eden · Dec 3, 2002

You poor soul, living with a Celery at home and a P3 750 at work all in the mindly enthusiasm of coding on them!
Shame on the corporate world!

--
The THGC Photo Album project,<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">CLICK HERE!</A>

slvr_phoenix · Dec 3, 2002

Heh heh. I've got to agree with the "Shame on the corporate world!" part. Would you believe that the company is also still shipping those P3 850s with a Matrox G400 (sometimes G450 because of availability problems with the G400) graphics card? I'm fighting like mad just to get that upgraded to a GeForce4Ti 4200 thanks to price drops there.

I mean what's the point of writing 3D visualization software if our customers can barely even run it because of the crappy systems that we ship?

Ach. It's the price you pay for 'standardization'. Sure, all of the customers have the same (or at least almost the same) hardware, so supply and maintanance is a snap. However, at some point crap is just plain crap.

Of course, we also have to be careful because supposedly one of our drivers doesn't work in a dualie system, so probably also won't work in a HT system. Heh heh. Beats me why we don't just fix this, but until we do, it limits our future platform choices.

Personally, I think you wouldn't find a more likely candidate for a dualie system than us. I mean we're collecting lossless 32-bit images of 1024x1024 pixels (standard, we actually range from 512x512 to 4096x4096, but 4K data collection is REALLY rare) over SCSI and applying numerous image corrections as the images are collected. Those little P3 850MHz systems can barely keep up sometimes

And now we're planning on adding a video microscope JPEG stream (more like a trickle than a stream at the moment) that also sucks up CPU time to compress those images. (As well as a possible web-cam trickle to observe the whole system remotely.) A dual P4 Xeon or Athlon MP box would massively help out, as would even 2GB of RAM. Of course, a high-speed SCSI hard drive (or dare I suggest RAID5 array) would make a considerable difference too. What I'd really kill for though is a simple PCI card with high scpeed hardware JPEG compression to save the CPU from getting munched by these video streams/trickles.

Heck, these systems ship with analytical x-ray equipment that costs a quarter of a mil or more. You'd think the company could decide on a bit more modern of a standard for the PCs.

One thing that I've learned quickly here is never expect logic.

<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=45775#45775" target="_new">Join the THGC LAN Party!</A>

flamethrower205 · Dec 6, 2002

Here's a headscratcher. My dad had to do some funky calculation on his dual 1.8Ghz P4 system, and it took all night. He needed to rerun the exact same thing here- took 50 minutes. wtf.

Kentucky: 15 million people, 5 last names....

juin · Dec 6, 2002

It me or ?? i dont much difference in CPU philosophie betwwen a P3 or K7.

Now what to do??

eden · Dec 6, 2002

This is rather weird.
It must be some code that really loves the Athlon's pipeline and IPC.

--
The THGC Photo Album project,<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">CLICK HERE!</A>

flamethrower205 · Dec 7, 2002

Hehe. My dad was so impressed he's gonna let me config a system for them and they will test it, see how it runs. When I showed him it was like 3x cheaper than the intel systems they had, he was even more convinced. He's the head of the hedgefund there, so basically he gets to choose anything he wants.

Kentucky: 15 million people, 5 last names....

eden · Dec 7, 2002

And since you got a cash hoarde, a Dual MP2600 soon would probably make your day much brighter! :tongue:

--
The THGC Photo Album project,<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">CLICK HERE!</A>

flamethrower205 · Dec 7, 2002

Nah, let's go eight proc

Wait, I'm saving that for hammer system. mwahaha.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

lhgpoobaa · Dec 8, 2002

Yep. The K7 is a excellent design.
A tad warm, but well banaced with the ALU, FPU and cache.

Then they made it better with the XP then the tbred.

<A HREF="http://www.ihatetelstra.com" target="_new">http://www.ihatetelstra.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.telstraexposed.com" target="_new">http://www.telstraexposed.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.antitelstra.com" target="_new">http://www.antitelstra.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.whirlpool.net.au" target="_new">http://www.whirlpool.net.au</A>

Quetzacoatl · Dec 8, 2002

Now just imagine if Intel and AMD made different jumps in their design. Like AMD going from Thunderbird to Thoroughbred B, and Intel from Tualatin to Northwood B. Things would be a lot more heated then. None of that Willamette and Thouroughbred A crap.

Soon enough, Intel will make the i845s...imagine dual channel Sdram...*shudder*

lhgpoobaa · Dec 8, 2002

Interesting comparison there... Willie is the equal of TbredA.

All i want is a bloomin 333fsb barton.
Plonk it in my 8K3A+ and ill be right for most of next year.

<A HREF="http://www.ihatetelstra.com" target="_new">http://www.ihatetelstra.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.telstraexposed.com" target="_new">http://www.telstraexposed.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.antitelstra.com" target="_new">http://www.antitelstra.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.whirlpool.net.au" target="_new">http://www.whirlpool.net.au</A>

Quetzacoatl · Dec 8, 2002

Well, not that bad, but the Willie was a stinking disappointment. Northwood A and B good. The Tbred A just alright, I guess AMD had to at least practice their .13um process. Heh, I think Barton's going all the way from 166fsb to 200fsb iirc. Nice little upgrade there.

Soon enough, Intel will make the i845s...imagine dual channel Sdram...*shudder*

lhgpoobaa · Dec 8, 2002

In the meantime im lookin for one of those super overclockable XP1600+'s that i could take direct to 166fsb... but they are pretty rare in Oz. [fronw]

<A HREF="http://www.ihatetelstra.com" target="_new">http://www.ihatetelstra.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.telstraexposed.com" target="_new">http://www.telstraexposed.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.antitelstra.com" target="_new">http://www.antitelstra.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.whirlpool.net.au" target="_new">http://www.whirlpool.net.au</A>

Spitfire_x86 · Dec 8, 2002

Northwood "A" without overclocking is not good. Little better than Willy.

Let us know <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=25703#25703" target="_new"> What File compression format you use? </A>

Quetzacoatl · Dec 8, 2002

So you're saying a 1.6Ghz Northwood overclocking to 2.4Ghz isn't a good overclocker? Heck, with good air cooling or watercooling, it can do 2.8-3Ghz

Soon enough, Intel will make the i845s...imagine dual channel Sdram...*shudder*

The power of the thunderbird

Illustrious

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Distinguished

Splendid

Splendid

Distinguished

Champion

Splendid

Champion

Splendid

Illustrious

Distinguished

Champion

Illustrious

Champion

Illustrious

Illustrious

Distinguished

Illustrious

Distinguished

Illustrious

Splendid

Distinguished

Share this page