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AMD or Intel?

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December 3, 2002 10:10:55 PM

I am thinking about buying a new pc now, and I can afford an Athlon XP 2800+ but since I want to overclock my new pc, is this the best choice? I am looking for the best speeds with extreme overclocking (watercooled).

More about : amd intel

December 4, 2002 1:52:49 AM

Check out the gazillion and one other posts about AMD vs Intel :smile:

<b>Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk. <i>Terry Pratchett</i></b>
December 4, 2002 3:20:59 AM

and then buy an Intel :D 

but I like that there are some real good motherboards for AMD these days, I would buy another AMD setup right now if I would be on a budget.

with your water cooling I can't even say Intel box will run silent because no need for extra case fans galore to keep AMD's temperature decent.

guess you can start comparing overclocked setups and see which one would be the best for you. or you can start reading 5920 posts to buy one or the other.

or go with your gut

if still can't decide then read first line again. :D 

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December 4, 2002 4:23:34 AM

AMD is the best platform for opening Office docs (and makes a nice room heater too). Intel is for everything else.

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
December 4, 2002 6:17:32 AM

I would think opening office documentations would be HD-dependent.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.
December 4, 2002 6:46:19 AM

Oh, sory, my bad, then Intel would do it better too, coz they have better chipsets for IDE capability, so there is nothing left for AMD platform ;) 

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
December 4, 2002 7:27:29 AM

Do little reading and see which one fits you the best.You can find lots of info here. Good luck.:) 

If ya don't ask..How ya gonna know.
December 4, 2002 10:28:59 AM

Moron blah just have sold last AMD system from the house in order to "upgrade" to Intel, caz there is no more "best bang for the buck" advantage with AMD, and moron blah needs a REAL video additing system which will perform as it should without scratching moron blah's head on how to make that "best bang for the buck" system perform at least as same clocked moron blah's Plll laptop in encoding.

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
December 4, 2002 1:11:53 PM

actually, the problem is not only the overclocked processor speed: I can only afford up to an Athlon 2800+ (so the new 3.06GHz is not an option) and since I am going to overclock it, the nForce2 motherboard seems great because it looks I won't have problems with overclocked PCI and AGP, as I would in an Intel motherboard. Also, a room heater would be nice in this cold room...
December 4, 2002 1:38:37 PM

first of all, to replace my current pc, a P-II 400. Then, I want to install win .net and use the terminal services with my current pc. However, I also want to be able to play games, edit audio and video while someone is using the terminal services to work (office and internet) on the other pc.
December 4, 2002 2:00:38 PM

I did consider that until I checked the motherboards... I want a system to last a few years, so agp 8x, firewire, usb 2.0 and >3 pci slots are essencial. also, there is the money problem...
December 4, 2002 2:46:02 PM

"...makes a nice room heater too..."

oh this is true! last month when i was renting a room across town with no heating, my faithful old Duron 1.3gig kept me warm thru those rough nights...
December 4, 2002 4:14:48 PM

Well if YOU get a 2800 within the next month or 2, wow, that's spectacular. Otherwise, ignore the "phantom chips" and get one that actually exists and is purchaseable NOW! What a concept...release a product that can be bought. Why hasn't anyone thought of this before? It's like going to a car dealership and actually driving home a model they describe. Woah...concept!

Actually, in all fairness, the future computer chip corporation IKDLSDKJKHCM Corp. has already made their 20.5 Ghz chip, and it beats both Intel and AMD. You can't get it for 10 years, but that's ok, it's still the best chip, right? And for only $20, it's affordable for anyone!

If you are not a fan of sarcasm....well...i guess a disclaimer goes before the actual post...oh well. :) 

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
December 4, 2002 7:18:17 PM

In both MPEG-4 and MPEG-2 video encoding, 333 FSB AXP's outperform 533 FSB P4's with PC1066 RDRAM. Lack of SSE2 can't make AXP slower than P4 in video encoding.

From AXP 2400+ and P4 2.4 GHz, price/performance ratio is still better for AXP's. The difference is not huge like midrange, low-end sectors but still better. You don't have to buy PC1066 RDRAM for best performance. And which one is more expensive, an i850E mobo or and nForce2 mobo? Can i850E mobos compete with nForce2 mobos in terms of features?

Quote:
moron blah's head on how to make that "best bang for the buck" system perform at least as same clocked moron blah's Plll laptop in encoding.

Equip an Athlon T-bird with VIA KLE133 chipset and PC100 CL3 SDRAM. Also don't forget to use 3600 rpm HD with the Athlon T-bird. (Use 4200 or 4500 rpm HD, if you feel pity for the AMD rig). Then I guarantee, you will have slower video encoding in the AMD rig compared to equally clocked P3.

<b> The fact is, T-Bird's are faster in audio/video encoding compared to equally clocked P3's and without SSE2 without SSE, AXP's are faster than P4 (PR vs. MHz) in audio/video encoding without SSE2. </b>

Quote:
moron blah needs a REAL video additing system

Yes, Intel CPU's are faster in video <i> additing </i>, but AMD cpus are faster in video <i> editing </i>. Nobody here needs a video <i> additing </i> system except you.

Let us know <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new"> What File compression format you use? </A>
December 4, 2002 8:51:11 PM

Quote:
From AXP 2400+ and P4 2.4 GHz, price/performance ratio is still better for AXP's.

Hehehehe, at least one persona pointed out that I am not the only one moron in the world. If you such a teacher can't see anything but kiddo paying misused words on the page, I would like to point you out on one thing: P4:2400MHZ == $199, AXP:2400+ == $209 these days (and I am not talking about nForce being pricier than PE mobo), So wheriz yer "still better" thing goes? As far as I can see you are misleading the crowd, caz yer passions with English blinds yer brain.

By the way, in case you did not know: laptops have 4200 RPM drives, so, yeah I feel pity for Athlon, caz it haz 7200 RPM drive (even drive has noting tudu with encoding (just in case you did not know that one as well)).

Have fun, teacher, heh.


..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
December 4, 2002 9:04:49 PM

if your going to get a AMD chip, instead of getting a 2800, get the 2700 which is about 50-60 usd less. The performance gap is small... thats if you want to save money. I have a Athlon 2700+ and its great.
December 4, 2002 9:31:00 PM

Quote:
If you such a teacher can't see anything but kiddo paying misused words on the page

I have tried to sound like you. Now you understand this is not good.

In many cases, P4 takes a small lead over Athlon. This lead will vanish if P4 use DDR memory. Athlon will look better in the benchmarks whrere they have small lead.

Asus i845PE mobo costs $10 more than Asus A7N8X. But for extra $10, you get lot more from a nForce board.

I know that Athlon XP 2400+ $10 more expensive than P4. But it makes P4 better price/performance processor if you can run it without mobo or ram.

My stiil better thing goes here- <b> To get max. performance from Athlon is cheaper than getting performance from P4 </b>

Quote:
laptops have 4200 RPM drives

Fastest laptop drives are 5400 rpm.

Quote:
even drive has noting tudu with encoding (just in case you did not know that one as well

My Duron 1 GHz w/ 7200 rpm HD vs. My friend's AXP 1700+ w/ 5400 rpm HD = not much difference. And my Duron 1 GHz HD + My friend's AXP 1800+ w/7200 rpm HD = huge difference.

I can find no diiference between 7200 rpm and 5400 rpm HD in audio encoding, not in video encoding.


Let us know <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new"> What File compression format you use? </A>
December 4, 2002 9:36:31 PM

Quote:
Well if YOU get a 2800 within the next month or 2, wow, that's spectacular. Otherwise, ignore the "phantom chips" and get one that actually exists and is purchaseable NOW!


AXP 2800+ is available now (since few days). You can find it in pricewatch and newegg.

Let us know <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new"> What File compression format you use? </A>
December 4, 2002 10:02:01 PM

Get a Via C3 processor! :smile:

<b>Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk. <i>Terry Pratchett</i></b>
December 4, 2002 10:19:55 PM

""In many cases, P4 takes a small lead over Athlon""

at least you admit that.

""i845PE mobo costs $10 more than Asus A7N8X""

In my store P7PE == $127.90, A7N8x == $149.90.

""Fastest laptop drives are 5400 rpm""

I was talking about my case, in which my laptop has 4200RPM drive (still pity for Athlon with 7200RPM and on KT7A mobo.) P3 1GHZ 256MB Laptop even copied DVD faster than Athlon 1GHZ 512MB desktop (now Intel IDE drivers come in place ;) 

Or you wanna argue with what I see with my own eyes as well?


..this is very useful and helpful place for information...
December 4, 2002 10:50:57 PM

Interesting. Nothing on pricewatch (unless i'm missing it, link me please), but it is on newegg. Newegg is only offering the chip with a particular mobo (don't want the mobo, shop elsewhere apparently). I guess Newegg falls into that category which AMD said "Will start shipping to certain OEMs in late november, everyone else in January".

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
December 5, 2002 3:20:03 AM

I think silicon is from sand, not sure.

"We are Microsoft, resistance is futile." - Bill Gates, 2015.
December 5, 2002 5:03:08 AM

It is, but what is sand, but finely ground rock?

Athlons and Pentiums are just melted rock. Who’s rock is better? Who cares, let’s play some games
December 5, 2002 7:59:21 AM

Possibly, your desktop DVD-ROM reads DVD movie discs slower than your laptop DVD-ROM. All 16x DVD-ROM's can't read DVD movie discs at 16x. Except LiteOn 16x DVD-ROM, I have seen no DVD-ROM that can read movie DVD at 16x. The read speed is 2x to 8x for movie DVDs. If the AMD Desktop has 16x LiteOn DVD-ROM, and the Intel desktop has 16x other DVD-ROM, then the athlon rig will copy DVD 2x to 6x faster than the Intel Desktop.

I am telling this assuming that you have enabled DMA for both HD and DVD-ROM in the athlon rig.

If you want to read DVD-ROM reviews, go to <A HREF="http://www.cdrlabs.com" target="_new"> CDRlabs </A>. IMO, it's the best site for optical drive review. BTW, they use a Athlon T-bird 750 MHz (o'clocked at 1GHz), and they can read movie DVD's at 16x with the LiteOn DVD-ROM. And of course, it's with via southbridge.

Quote:
In my store A7PE == $127.90, A7N8x == $149.90.

I see, you are a retailer. Now the reason for your stupid comments is clear to me. I have seen such reatailer tells that "AMD cpus slow down after using few days".

Let us know <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?na..." target="_new"> What File compression format you use? </A>
December 5, 2002 4:40:03 PM

I have a question on Nforce2 chipsets with Dual DDR. Are there special memory that is Dual DDR or is it as simple as buying 2 pairs of the common PC2700/PC3200 DDR RAM and installing it? I'm confused coz am new to this and didn't even bother knowing how dual RDRAM worked...

As for the topic at hand I always go for AMD when it comes to AXP vs P4 comparisons. AMD still has the best bang for the buck. Well at least when it comes to mid level PCs, about AXP 2200+ and P4 2.5. I'm building a PC for a friend based on an AXP 2200+ system over an Intel 2.0GHz system. It's cheaper considering the mobo.

The Nforce2 is awesome too...P4s get to have dual DDR too right? The E705 thingy chipsets, oh the "granite bay". I won't deny Intel has the fastest CPU right now which is the 3.06GHz but for budget conscious ppl the AXP is still the best bang for the back...the 333FSB that can be utilized using AXP 2600+ - 2800+ is a nice new feature to have.

About retailers and what not I remember watching this home TV PC shopping and this guy who claims to be in PC business for 15 years, a veteran as he calls himself, bad mouthed AMD...he is selling a system for P4 1.8GHz, he said to the viewers that the P4 is the fastest and nobody should get fooled by the AMD company who labels one of their products as AXP 2000+ but it only runs at a clock speed of 1.67GHz. he claims it is no match for P4 1.8Ghz...what veteran! Ppl like that I hate...
December 5, 2002 5:37:05 PM

Quote:
the nForce2 motherboard seems great because it looks I won't have problems with overclocked PCI and AGP, as I would in an Intel motherboard

Actually Intel motherboards were the first to feature AGP and PCI locks. Any good Intel overclocking motherboard has the ability to lock the AGP and PCI clocks.
Here goes the end to *this* specific AMD versus Intel argument
1. P4s overclock more and with greater stability in most cases. Most good AMD overclocks come from certain cores and getting one is a crap shoot most of the time. Almost all Intel CPUs of C1 stepping OC like champs.
2. Intel motherboards featured AGP/PCI locks first, and any good motherboard that you'd want for overclocking would have this feature.
3. Intel debatably has better IDE performance which is important when capturing video (at least compared to Via chipsets, not sure about nForce)
4. Overclocked P4s with high speed DDR give amazing performance over even 1066 RDRAM. With the right components and FSB its not hard to reach 434 MHz ram clock and 3500 mb/s ram bandwidth. Only Rimm4200 takes the cake, but not always because of how RDRAM works. Not to mention the DDR is considerably cheaper for the small difference in performance either way.
5.Price is almost not an issue right now. From what I've seen at newegg and some other places 2800+ costs more than 2.8 GHz northwood by around $10 (at newegg 2.8 Pr is $389, 2800+ is $399)
6. Did I mention the stability of an Intel rig with an Intel chipset? (With performance and prices similar with either rig the stability alone is enough to make me go P4)
Maybe AMD has changed A LOT since the last time I ran an AMD in my own rig (5 months ago) but from all my experiences with friends computers, and my fathers computer AMD is never stable or reliable when overclocked. My Intel rig OCed 800 MHz from 1.6 to 2.4 GHz is currently on an uptime of (3w 2d 1h 2m 49s) and now I have to shutdown for some hard ware changes. I'm vice president of a lan party at UCF (www.ucflan.com) and its great when other peoples highly overclocked AMD rigs are crashing, or kicking them out of games back to the desktop and my rig keeps on truckin.
Now I still build my friends AMD rigs if they ask for it over intel, but that just makes me more money to improve my Intel rig with faster ram, and hard drives :smile:

Gosh I'm such a nerd sometimes, but then again arn't we all. :smile:
December 5, 2002 5:47:00 PM

Quote:
About retailers and what not I remember watching this home TV PC shopping and this guy who claims to be in PC business for 15 years, a veteran as he calls himself, bad mouthed AMD...he is selling a system for P4 1.8GHz, he said to the viewers that the P4 is the fastest and nobody should get fooled by the AMD company who labels one of their products as AXP 2000+ but it only runs at a clock speed of 1.67GHz. he claims it is no match for P4 1.8Ghz...what veteran! Ppl like that I hate...

I hate them too, but I also hate retailers that know a little bit and think they know everything. I had a Slot A 800MHz Thunderbird CPU once and was trying to find the ASUS K7V-T which is the only motherboard that I knew about that supported it while still offering 4x AGP. At almost every place I called they denied that AMD ever made a Slot A thunderbird. Idiots! I didn't ask them to analyze my situation, only tell me if they carried the motherboard. Anyway, the point is that I stopped trusting retailers to know what they were talking about... even AMD certified ones (one said, "We are AMD certified so we would know if AMD ever made such a CPU").

The story ends with me never finding a good motherboard, selling the CPU for $50.00 to someone that claimed they could find one, and buying a new CPU.
December 5, 2002 6:02:53 PM

Quote:
Did I mention the stability of an Intel rig with an Intel chipset? (With performance and prices similar with either rig the stability alone is enough to make me go P4)
Maybe AMD has changed A LOT since the last time I ran an AMD in my own rig (5 months ago) but from all my experiences with friends computers, and my fathers computer AMD is never stable or reliable when overclocked. My Intel rig OCed 800 MHz from 1.6 to 2.4 GHz is currently on an uptime of (3w 2d 1h 2m 49s) and now I have to shutdown for some hard ware changes. I'm vice president of a lan party at UCF (www.ucflan.com) and its great when other peoples highly overclocked AMD rigs are crashing, or kicking them out of games back to the desktop and my rig keeps on truckin.

I agree that overclocking performs better on P4's most of the time than it does on AXP's. But if any system becomes less stable as a result of it, it is the fault of the overclocker and they should reduce the speeds.

I would have to strongly disagree with any other implication that Intel's CPU's are any more reliable than AMD's. I have an Athlon 1.4 GHz at home on a KT133A chipset and it never gives me any problems. My 1.7 GHz P4 at work (from Dell) gives me all sorts of problems. I don't think that AMD's are any more reliable than Intel's either. I just think that the CPU is blamed 90% of the time when it is the actual problem probably less than 1% of the time. Hardware conflicts arise with either platform when there are so many manufacturers trying to make things work with every other piece of hardware that is made.

Choose your components well and you end up with a reliable system. If you don't want to worry about getting conflicting hardware, spend twice as much and get a Mac.
December 5, 2002 7:30:14 PM

don't go over 1.75 volts and your fine. 1.85 is way to much, and 1.8 is pushing it. Considering most motherboards only allow up to 1.75 volts there is little to worry about. And its not all chips, its under strange circumstances, and inefficient cooling from what I've read.

On another note I think that AMD systems or Intel systems are pretty equal as long as you take the time to invest in all quality parts (does Dell really do this?) I think any PC you build yourself has potential to be better than a pre-built because you can make sure you've got the highest quality parts inside. With that taken into account AMD or Intel can be a stable, fast, easily overclocked system. You just have to take into account what overclocks more and maintains stability while doing so. But unfortunatly overclocking varies for everyone, there are no deffinite overclocks unless your aiming really low, like ANY CPU should be able to overclock by 1 MHz.

Gosh I'm such a nerd sometimes, but then again arn't we all. :smile:
December 5, 2002 7:36:00 PM

It seems to be related to both voltage and temperature deltas.

Motherboards are delivering unstable voltage at the higher voltage levels. Since those voltage levels are out of spec, they weren't tested by the motherboard manufacturer. Thus, you get very dirty power which shortens the life of the processor significantly. I recommend remaining at or less than 1.75 volts. Due to fluctuations in motherboards, this may mean staying at 1.70 volts or less to guaratee you do not approach 1.75 volts.

In addition to watching that the processor remains within standard operating temperature tolerances, you should ensure as small a temperature change as possible when moving from idle to full use. Large temperature swings will cause the die to expand and contract, causing eventual failure. This may mean taking a second look at your cooling solution, case fans, etc.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
December 5, 2002 7:41:56 PM

ok, all that you P4 fans have said might be true, but I also said I wanted a pc to last, so I'm looking for a motherboard with a lot of features, like the nforce 2. Also, this is a really cold room, even in the summer, so an "athlon heater" would really be nice...
December 5, 2002 7:45:06 PM

If you purchase an AMD-based system today, you will be forced to purchase a new motherboard the next time you want a faster processor. AMD is changing sockets when they move to their next line of processors. Is upgradability a concern?

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
December 5, 2002 7:50:19 PM

no, I want a pc now to last for a few years, but without upgrading (except maybe a sata hdd). when I say "last for a few years", I mean be at least as fast as my P-II 400 now with the win xp equivalent in 5 years.
December 5, 2002 7:58:50 PM

Then my recommendation is to get a system that is geared more toward the future. Something that supports all the SSE2 as well as the other extended instruction sets will improve performance of the processor as time moves forward by better taking advantage of new software. Hyperthreading would also improve the longevity of your processor in the future. Though you may want to wait a while for prices to drop on processors that offer this feature.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
December 5, 2002 8:01:28 PM

Working...

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
December 5, 2002 8:14:51 PM

2 problems: can't wait till prices go down because I really need a new pc and can't buy a better cpu (intel) now because I can't afford it. So it looks my only chance is the athlon xp
December 5, 2002 8:37:37 PM

Which one were you thinking about getting?

From <A HREF="http://www.pricewatch.com" target="_new">http://www.pricewatch.com&lt;/A>:
<pre>Retail (includes HSF) 2.6GHz Pentium 4: $297 plus shipping
</pre><p><pre>Retail (includes HSF) 2.53GHz Pentium 4: $233 plus shipping
</pre><p><pre>Retail (includes HSF) 2.4GHz Pentium 4: $188 plus shipping
</pre><p><pre>Retail (includes HSF) 2.133GHz Athlon XP 2600+: $303 plus shipping
</pre><p><pre>Retail (includes HSF) 2.0GHz Pentium 4 2.0A: $163 plus shipping
Retail (includes HSF) 2.0GHz Athlon XP 2400+: $191 plus shipping
</pre><p><pre>Retail (includes HSF) 1.8GHz Pentium 4 1.8A: $141 plus shipping
Retail (includes HSF) 1.8GHz Athlon XP 2200+: $157 plus shipping
</pre><p><pre>Retail (includes HSF) 1.6GHz Athlon XP 1900+: $ 71 plus shipping
Retail (includes HSF) 1.6GHz Pentium 4 1.6A: $136 plus shipping
</pre><p>-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
December 5, 2002 8:37:46 PM

I already answered that, but I'll copy paste the text again:
first of all, to replace my current pc, a P-II 400. Then, I want to install win .net and use the terminal services with my current pc. However, I also want to be able to play games, edit audio and video while someone is using the terminal services to work (office and internet) on the other pc.
December 5, 2002 8:38:19 PM

Reading all these makes me imagine how hard is upgrading for "poor" ppl like us. I wish they can release a motherboard right now that can stand 5 years of new hardware. Something with CPU FSB, memory, AGP, PCI, everything that is 5 years ahead of technology. Damned it why can't I be rich!
December 5, 2002 9:02:32 PM

after reading the specificatios for the Asus P4G8X (I believe this to be the best motherboard for Intel right now) I don't like it since it doesn't support even dual DDR333 (and in the fist months I didn't want to overclock)and I don't know if I can buy it as easily as a nforce2...

ok, I read it again and also read about the Asus P4PE and I'm starting to believe this is in fact better, but i've heard about some problems with overclocking the new P4 and after a few monthes they were dead. Even with this, does the overclocked P4 (below those dangerous levels) scores better than an overclocked Athlon? (2,4GHz and above)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by pauloandre on 12/05/02 11:11 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 5, 2002 9:10:27 PM

Grab an Abit TH7II ($88 + shipping) and two 128MB RDRAM modules ($41 each) or two 256MB RDRAM modules ($82 each). That will work well with a Pentium 4 2.4GHz (400MHz FSB) or slower. IMO it's the best motherboard for the Pentium 4 currently.

-Raystonn


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my employer. =
December 5, 2002 9:22:29 PM

a motherboard with only agp 4x is not what I need (and I didn't even continue checking the rest of the specs)
!