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Tualatin Upgrade Problems anyone?

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December 16, 2002 4:55:30 PM

I sent the following to Upgradeware.com AND PowerLeap.com. Neither system seems to work well with either processor or either companies product. I'm not sure how many thousands of Asus P2B's or P3V4X boards are out there, but it seems odd the instability of the upgrade(s). Any experiences with this? Good / Bad? Solutions?

Tech Support @ upgradeware.com,
Well, there seems to be an issue with Tualatin CPU upgrades in general. I've tried to upgrade two different systems with two different Tualatin CPU's (1.4GHz Celeron and a 1.4GHz PIII-S).

The issues are;
BOTH processors won't run at their rated bus speeds on either motherboard (Asus P2B rev 1.02, Asus P3V4X rev. 1.02).
Tualatin Celeron only runs at 75MHz setting, not the 100MHz default, for a 1050MHz setting on either motherboard.
Tualatin PIII-S only runs at 110MHz FSB setting, not the 133MHz default, for a 1150MHz setting on either motherboard.
Neither processor observes the slot 1 card FSB setting, only the motherboard FSB BIOS (P3V4X) or jumpers (P2B) have any effect on FSB speed. Why? The older processors BOTH run fine at 133MHz (coppermine 1GHz PIII's) on THE SAME slot-1 cards minus the Upgradeware Tualatin converter (370GPU).

The Tualatin PIII processors have all kinds of random lock-up, booting, and video issues.
PIII Tualatin warm boot in the P3V4X at all (black screen) and after a few days it won't cold boot.
PIII Tualatin won't allow "reflections" and "portal" 3D rendering with a ti4200 Nvidia MSI video card, locking up whenever they are rendered.
Celeron Tualatin won't allow defrag, screen savers, or Explorer Internet programs to run without locking up.

I've used two completely different power supplies, two different slot -1 converter cards (Upgradeware SLOT-T and ASUS S370-133), two different Tualatin type CPU's(Celeron and PIII-S). All combinations are unstable and exhibit strange program behavior on both systems and virtually any system settings.

The conversion process doesn't seem to address all the needed issues to allow Tualatin CPU's to work well. If it did, the computer would warm boot, render 3D files correctly, avoid random lock-ups, run at the rated FSB speeds ETC.

Remember, BOTH motherboards run flawlessly with the SAME slot-1 converter cards (either one) with the PIII coppermine processor. I would like to think this upgrade makes sense, but it seems to be an unfinished project.
FSB speed issues need to be solved.
Warm boot issues need to be resolved.
Lock-ups and system instability at the same speeds (about 1000MHz) as the coppermine CPU need to be solved let alone the higher 1.4GHz setting that can't be reached.

Memory isn't the issue. Im using PC133MHz or higher rated SDRAM with conservative BIOS CAS3 latency settings which don't help at all. The P2B runs at 133MHz (well over its 100MHz rated FSB speed) with no problem what so ever using a coppermine PIII 1GHz CPU. The motherboard(s) aren't the issue. Removing either Tualatin processor and replacing it with the PIII coppermine resolves ALL issues.

To prove the point, I've used PowerLeaps PL-iPT -1.4GHz Celeron adapter with EXACTLY the same issues. This adapter has its own on board power supply so the motherboard can't be at fault. I've NEVER seen the old 486 Pentium type upgrades fail like this.

I'd like to use the performance of a Tualatin PIII Celeron or PIII-S CPU, but it seems the conversions are done in haste and are not really correct at this time. The risks of failure seem to be too high and the cost to upgrade to a P4 too low to recommend this upgrade.

Regards,
rower30@earthlink.net
December 16, 2002 7:11:37 PM

Quote:
I sent the following to Upgradeware.com AND PowerLeap.com. Neither system seems to work well with either processor or either companies product.

I have an Abit BX133 mobo and I got a Tually 1.26 CPU a couple months ago with a Powerleap adapter. The adapter died after five days. I replaced it with an Upgradeware adapter and it's working fine so far. The only issue is that sometimes Windows Me won't do a restart properly, it just hangs and I have to power down and restart manually. This happens about one out of five times if I restart the system (from Windows Update patches or for whatever reason).

Ritesh
December 16, 2002 7:31:35 PM

Why not just get a motherboard that actually supports the Tualatin processor?

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December 16, 2002 7:46:16 PM

I have a P2B-LS. Won't work with the Slot-T. Works OK with the IP3/T. I don't know what your issue is. But I did have an IP3/T die a few days after I bought it, and I have a replacement now.

Both adapters work fine on both my BH6 and Soyo BA6+III.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
a b à CPUs
December 16, 2002 7:47:40 PM

BX boards offer higher performance, better stability (unless you have the upgrade issue with Tualatins, DOH) and superior compatability.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
December 16, 2002 8:43:05 PM

Quote:
Why not just get a motherboard that actually supports the Tualatin processor?

Personally, I still have an ISA sound card (AWE32) for compatibility with DOS games and no i815E mobos I know of have an ISA slot. Plus, as Crashman said, 440BX is still the fastest performer for the P3 when running at 133 FSB.

Ritesh
December 16, 2002 10:20:44 PM

Why not buy a MB that supports a Tualatin? Well it was TOO-A-LATE-IN the process! I've had the P3V4X several years, the Tualatin wasn't even around early on. I've used a PIII Coppermine 1.0GHz the past few years on an Asus SLOT1 to S370 adapter with great results. But, double the L1 Cache and 400 more MHz seemed attractive. It looked like a no brainer. But, lots of issues that seem common. Boot issues, dead adapters (quality?) ETC.

The hassel of reloading a set of drives, and changing to XP when its all patched up from 98SE (why use 98SE and then do it again when W98SE is shortly going to lose MS support?, waiting out serial ATA, P4 memory issues, and Video card wars says to wait. Too many fundamental system changes are going around to upgrade right now. The Tualatin seemed like a good bet for a few years.

rower30@earthlink.net
December 16, 2002 10:25:26 PM

Yep, the infamous won't warm boot. What exactly is this Tualatin processor wanting to REALLY run right? These adapters are not supplying the needed goods. No way would a server run these things the way an adapter sets them up. The processor is fine, its the adapter manufacturers not clearing the air about what the real issues are in the upgrade.
a b à CPUs
December 17, 2002 12:54:37 AM

First off the P3V4X was a piece of crap to begin with. I own one so I can speak from experience.(we all make mistakes)
Are you running the special P2B bios needed to support this upgrade??????

Seems like you came to rant..........not to ask for help.
typos
I aint signing nothing!!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Rick_Criswell on 12/16/02 09:55 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
December 17, 2002 4:11:17 AM

First, the P3V4X was one of the best "slot" boards around, period. No, it's not as good as the CUV4X S370 series of boards that replaced it. But they came AFTER people were known to have built things. Funny how improvements work isn't it? Besides, running at 1.0GHz on a board meant for 733MHz isn't so bad a deal is it? Why is a Mboard that reach 43% over its design limit "crap".

Two, if you know more about what you were read, you'd know that the P2B won't even post without the BIOS from Powerleap. Yes, the BIOS was flashed.

Three, The P2B was one of the most stable BX chipset boards ever made. If an upgrade is unstable with this board, what does it work well in? As far as the VIA chipset P3V4X (running easily at 140MHz FSB,1.75V on the core and with cas2 memory timing by the way) your argument is weak based on the SAME situations in the P2B, a performance leader in its time.

Four, my problems are not few, or far between. Upgrades that are this unstable on specific motherboards waste your time and money and people that have these boards may want to know. The manufacturer(s) claim "compatability" I say be careful. Rant? If saving someone $250.00 (you?) is ranting, so be it.

The post is fact and if that hurts your feelings sorry. Buy the upgrade and see how you do. But, bear in mind the difficulties ahead.
December 18, 2002 2:26:32 PM

I know this will kill performance, but out of curiosity see if it crashes if you set the in order queue depth to "1" on the P2B.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*
December 23, 2002 9:34:53 PM

Well, I gave up on the 1.4GHz-S Tualatin in my Asus P3V4X and put it in a friends ASUS CUV4X. It warm and cold boots fine. Set it to run at 1.25GHz. Still can't get it to boot at 1.4GHz even in the CUV4X.

I took his old PIII coppermine 1.0GHz processor and but it in my girlfriends Asus P2B (the OLD one!!) and it runs great with BIOS 1012 (coppermine u-code). I know, it's running at 1.8 volts verses 1.65 volts but coppermines seem to take this fine from what I've read. The board is even running 133MHz FSB with one stick of PC100 (32MEG) and one stick of PC133 (128MEG) SDRAM! Yes, the old P2B is not the problem with the Tualatin upgrade that's for sure.
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December 23, 2002 11:35:37 PM

It's only running 1.8v if you set it that way on an adjustable slot card. Otherwise it must be a new enough revision of the board to support 1.65v. A 1.80v restricted board won't boot a 1.65v CPU unless you modify the pins to detect it at 1.80v (adjustable slotkets modify the pin assignments).

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
December 24, 2002 3:58:28 PM

Hey now, I know the P3V4X was a Via based chipset but it lacked most of the that the AMD based Via chipsets did at that time. My sis still uses my old P3V4X mobo with a P3 550@733. It's been running the same since I put it together a couple of years ago. It didn't perform as well as the intel chipsets but it was typically $10-15 cheaper.

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