CR/EL/XP of mounted NPCs?

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:
> > Do you count the CR of a mount in for EL &/or XP? Let's start with
> > the obvious most common example. A warrior on a light warhorse. A
> > lv 1 fighter (human, orc, whatever) is a CR 1 creature. If you go
> > by NPC gear, he can afford a light warhorse. A light warhorse is a
> > CR 1 creature.
> >
> > Does this mean this is an EL 3 encounter?
> >
> > Do you give XP for the warhorse?
>
> If he's bought it out of his standard NPC gold allowance, I'd consider it
> part of his own CR, the same as animal companions and summons.
>

How about the case of say a 1/2 CR warrior with a CR 2 heavy warhorse?

Admittedly this is almost his entire alotment of gear, at least the way
I do it which is giving them 1/2 of normal 1st lv gear at 1st lv and -1
lv of gear for levels beyond that, based on the NPC gear table. Is
there some official way of doing NPC class gear? I don't see that most
wariors listed in the MM have much gear.

So if you just gave the NPC a warhorse, and used his money for somthing
else you'd give XP for the warhorse?

Another question along the same line is do you give XP for called
creatures? For instance a 18th (17 with orange ioun stone) wizard can
use gate to call up a pit fiend, which is CR 20. The pit fiend can be
sent off as a totally seperate encounter by the wizard. It's there for
as long as it takes, not limited to a short period of time.

- Justisaur

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Mark Blunden wrote:
> > Justisaur wrote:
> > > Do you count the CR of a mount in for EL &/or XP? Let's start with
> > > the obvious most common example. A warrior on a light warhorse. A
> > > lv 1 fighter (human, orc, whatever) is a CR 1 creature. If you go
> > > by NPC gear, he can afford a light warhorse. A light warhorse is a
> > > CR 1 creature.
> > >
> > > Does this mean this is an EL 3 encounter?
> > >
> > > Do you give XP for the warhorse?
> >
> > If he's bought it out of his standard NPC gold allowance, I'd consider it
> > part of his own CR, the same as animal companions and summons.
> >
>
> How about the case of say a 1/2 CR warrior with a CR 2 heavy warhorse?
>
> Admittedly this is almost his entire alotment of gear, at least the way
> I do it which is giving them 1/2 of normal 1st lv gear at 1st lv and -1
> lv of gear for levels beyond that, based on the NPC gear table. Is
> there some official way of doing NPC class gear? I don't see that most
> wariors listed in the MM have much gear.
>
> So if you just gave the NPC a warhorse, and used his money for somthing
> else you'd give XP for the warhorse?
>
> Another question along the same line is do you give XP for called
> creatures? For instance a 18th (17 with orange ioun stone) wizard can
> use gate to call up a pit fiend, which is CR 20. The pit fiend can be
> sent off as a totally seperate encounter by the wizard. It's there for
> as long as it takes, not limited to a short period of time.

IIRC the DMG gives equipment value for level 1 members of the NPC
classes in the class write-ups, it isn't much. This is not in the
SRD though so I can't check it here.

IMAO called creatures are worth EP if called outside of combat,
then they are simply additional allies of whoever called them.
If called during combat they are largely equivelent to summoned
creatures, i.e. calling it is part of the NPC's power and he used
time and a spell slot.

I would tend strongly NOT give any additional EP for a horse
under most circumstances because the horse is LOOT, loot is its
own reward. If the Horse would fight you independently of being
made to do so by its rider I would give EP for it, but if the
rider is the only reason it is fighting (normal) then all you
need to do to overcome the horse is overcome the rider.

DougL

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Justisaur wrote:
> Do you count the CR of a mount in for EL &/or XP? Let's start with
> the obvious most common example. A warrior on a light warhorse. A
> lv 1 fighter (human, orc, whatever) is a CR 1 creature. If you go
> by NPC gear, he can afford a light warhorse. A light warhorse is a
> CR 1 creature.
>
> Does this mean this is an EL 3 encounter?
>
> Do you give XP for the warhorse?

If he's bought it out of his standard NPC gold allowance, I'd consider it
part of his own CR, the same as animal companions and summons.

--
Mark.

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:


>
> I would tend strongly NOT give any additional EP for a horse
> under most circumstances because the horse is LOOT, loot is its
> own reward. If the Horse would fight you independently of being
> made to do so by its rider I would give EP for it, but if the
> rider is the only reason it is fighting (normal) then all you
> need to do to overcome the horse is overcome the rider.
>
> DougL
>

That's about the crux of it. Is the horse dangerous of its own accord or
is it loot? Does the horse make the combat harder or longer or more
dangerous?

For an active mount, I would bump up the CR. Two CR1's may not be a CR3,
so I'd fudge them as a CR2.

CH

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Clawhound wrote:
> DougL wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I would tend strongly NOT give any additional EP for a horse
> > under most circumstances because the horse is LOOT, loot is its
> > own reward. If the Horse would fight you independently of being
> > made to do so by its rider I would give EP for it, but if the
> > rider is the only reason it is fighting (normal) then all you
> > need to do to overcome the horse is overcome the rider.
> >
> > DougL
> >
>
> That's about the crux of it. Is the horse dangerous of its own accord or
> is it loot? Does the horse make the combat harder or longer or more
> dangerous?
>

It does make combat more dangerous, I'm talking a warhorese here, not
just a regular horse, it can attack after all, gives the rider more
squares to threaten, and usually more movement. Longer probably not,
and it is 'loot'. If you are using a griffon or possibly even a dog,
even if it was paid for out of the NPCs loot, it would probably
continue attacking after it's master is removed from the fight. One of
the PCs could probably use handle animal (if they have it) to calm it
down though.

> For an active mount, I would bump up the CR. Two CR1's may not be a CR3,
> so I'd fudge them as a CR2.

I looked up the EL table, looks like I was wrong, 2 CR1's are EL2
anway.

- Justisaur

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

DougL wrote:
> Justisaur wrote:

> >
> > How about the case of say a 1/2 CR warrior with a CR 2 heavy warhorse?
> >
> > Admittedly this is almost his entire alotment of gear, at least the way
> > I do it which is giving them 1/2 of normal 1st lv gear at 1st lv and -1
> > lv of gear for levels beyond that, based on the NPC gear table. Is
> > there some official way of doing NPC class gear? I don't see that most
> > wariors listed in the MM have much gear.
> >
> > So if you just gave the NPC a warhorse, and used his money for somthing
> > else you'd give XP for the warhorse?
> >
> > Another question along the same line is do you give XP for called
> > creatures? For instance a 18th (17 with orange ioun stone) wizard can
> > use gate to call up a pit fiend, which is CR 20. The pit fiend can be
> > sent off as a totally seperate encounter by the wizard. It's there for
> > as long as it takes, not limited to a short period of time.
>
> IIRC the DMG gives equipment value for level 1 members of the NPC
> classes in the class write-ups, it isn't much. This is not in the
> SRD though so I can't check it here.
>

It does have starting gold, but I assumed this was like starting gold
in the PHB, 1st lv PC classed NPCs get 900 gp in gear, not starting
gold. I figured 450 for an NPC since NPCs are 1 level lower or CR 1/2
at first level, to keep the correct ammount of treasure comming in for
the PCs. That's obviously a bit much for a commoner, but I still think
they are more like lv -3 (or 1/4 CR for 1st) for CR.

Starting gold for a warrior is 3d4x10 average 75 gp, low 30, high 120,
this does jive a bit better with the equipment typical in most
warriors.

Looking at an orc warrior he gets studded leather, a falchion, and some
(no number, I'll guess 3 though.) javelins. That's 103 gp. In the
range of starting equipment for warriors. He also gets standard
treasure, which takes care of expected wealth for PCs. I'd rather give
them it in gear though. Standard treasure for a CR 1/2 is 150gp. If
you give it in equipment that will most likey have to be sold for half
value that'd be 300, plus the 103 he has already is 403, which is
awfully close to the 450 I was expecting. I suppose the 300 in gear
could be mundane gear you'd expect for a nomadic type, tent, pack, pots
& pans, rations, pack mule, goats...

- Justisaur

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>> IIRC the DMG gives equipment value for level 1 members of the NPC
>> classes in the class write-ups, it isn't much. This is not in the
>> SRD though so I can't check it here.
>>
>
> It does have starting gold, but I assumed this was like starting gold
> in the PHB, 1st lv PC classed NPCs get 900 gp in gear, not starting
> gold. I figured 450 for an NPC since NPCs are 1 level lower or CR 1/2
> at first level, to keep the correct ammount of treasure comming in for
> the PCs. That's obviously a bit much for a commoner, but I still think
> they are more like lv -3 (or 1/4 CR for 1st) for CR.
>
[snip]

I use 150 gp. Approximates a 1st level fighter's starting gold -- that's
where I got the number from. Not sure about keeping PC treasure value in
line ... doesn't work great for that. But 450 seems like too much for their
power level.

I give commoners 12.5 gp.

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