Proof that ATI has a faster card vs Geforce fx ??

"In the past, VisionTek had always been closely associated with Nvidia, but when we looked at the technology available from both suppliers, both at present and what's coming over the next nine months, we felt we owed it to our loyal gamers to make the switch to ATI," commented Tony Graffia Jr, president of Hartford Computer Group. "ATI has the best-performing products at every price point and we're confident that they will retain that lead through the coming year."

Just the messenger don't kill me found the read intersting especially seeing how he was talking about NINE MONTHS down the line. After seeing products from both companies in the line-up for that time period the president choices ATI hmmmmm I smell a kick ass card coming.

I mean Visiontek of all companies I mean the had some of the hottest nVIDIA cards ever out.
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  1. Pretty interesting. It could be that Visiontek is going for the cards(ATI) that will sell more, not the card(Nvidia) that is the best. I'm neutral when it comes to ATI and Nvidia but when it comes to business it's always about the money and not the passion. Well at least most presidents of companies are like that, they aren't really into the joy of computer hardware but all they care about is money. With exception to Bill Gates, he started as a computer geek :]. That's what I think is another possibility.

    That guy sounds pretty honest though. He kinda cares about the gamers and not his pocket.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by hartski on 12/18/02 09:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  2. Thanks for your input to was actually very useful. Made think of other possibilities.
  3. Why would nVIDIA be the best? Maybe that's what YOU think, but others think different.

    Way too funny how you write your line... "going for the cards(ATI) that will sell more, not the card(Nvidia) that is the best"..., hope they pay you for the advertising, or at least send you a free fanboy t-shirt. :lol:

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  4. Easy, he did say he was neutral about ATI and nVIDIA.
  5. I'm just stating possibilities...I hope that is well understood. My point was for a long time Nvidia has been ahead of ATI when it comes to the best cards, ever since GeForce 256 came out. However what sells more are the mainstream cards. When the GF FX comes out the R9700 Pro of today will be cheap but still up to date, therefore The R9700 Pro might gain more sales than a new and more expensive GF FX. Besides why would Visiontek change to Nvidia when the GF FX is about to be released early next year. There is no doubt that many are still for Nvidia because of the reputation and the name brand, so why chnage? I think it has something to do with profits too and the agressiveness of ATI to release cards such as the R9700 non-pro, R9500, R9000. They may not be the best cards in their respective arenas but they will likely sell more coz they carry tags such as "DX9, latest technology, cheap price, etc." Again I'm just stating possibilities.

    Oh BTW I flushed the idea of waiting for the GF FX and now own an ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro. Nvidia has never beaten ATI when it comes to all-in-one cards!

    So can I get 2 t-shirts pleas since I'm a FANBOY for both ATI and Nvidia???
  6. Why would you want to compare so much? As long as the games can run in good frame rates with good quality, that’s it.I don’t really care whether Ati better or Nvidia better. The comparison should let ATI and Nvidia do it since this will make them produce better cards and I’ll just wait for a good card out and get it no matter it’s ATI or Nvidia.
  7. Many ppl care and we are just discussing here what's behind that statement by Visiontek. Are they seeing ownage vidcards from ATI that made them switch or some other reasons like more sales or what not.
  8. haha.. who knows.. maybe at that time ATi or Nvidia might allow trade-ins of old cards for a discount on new ones.

    hmm.. now that whould be a good reason to watch out for.. lol.. if it ever comes
  9. actually, if you go to ATI's website they DO accept trade-ins of old cards. I know for a 9700pro you get $50 off if you trade in ANY vidcard. even some old shitty ones.

    "There is no dark or light side, only power and those too weak to seek it."
  10. I figured this was common knowledge at this point, but visiontek went out of business and were probably bought, if not they are still trying to recover, either way using visiontek as an example doesnt apply to a performance issue, its all money.
  11. If ATI are offering trade in....
    Must dust off some old 1MB Diamond Stealth PCI card than I think is propping my desk up. At last I've found a use for it!

    Money Off! Works for me!
  12. Yah ATI trade-in program is a great way to dispose of rotting old vidcards. However if you have like R8500 don't bother, you can easily get 50 bucks out of that in ebay. Besides 350 bucks is the current ceiling street price of R9700 Pro.
  13. I did not know Visiontek is going out of business or is struggling. That's why I'm surprised with the change. If ATI bought Visiontek then it'd be very good for ATI. What's left for Nvidia? PNY, eVGA, Asus, Leadtek. However Asus and Leadtek are kinda expensive compared to PNY and eVGA. I really want to see ATI be ahead this time.
  14. Hey, hands off the ATI t-shirt! It's mine, mine mine mine! :lol: LOL

    I just buy the one does better at the moment I need to upgrade.

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  15. At the moment the better one is the R9700 Pro, Unless you wanna wait for the supposedly better GF FX. Supposedly better because ATI might release a new version of the R9700 Pro with DDR-II and prolly higher clock speed or jsut release the R350
  16. ATI: Cheaper, fastest.

    Quote:
    next nine months

    R400 in the fall, hell yeah.

    <font color=red>I´m starting to feel like a real computer consultant.</font color=red>
  17. Great! R400 in Fall! A little early in my upgrade schedule though :]. BTW what are the chances of selling a videocard that was released a year ago? I really want to sell my AIW 9700 Pro when the R400 comes out. I only remember the R8500 going for 200-250 bucks last year and now it's 100 and under.

    "ATI: Cheaper, fastest." - You combined the two prominent reasons suggested why Visiontek switched to ATI. I don't know about fastest when the GF FX comes out but surely ATI will be the cheapest. R350 vs NV30 = most likely R350 will be cheaper!
  18. hey do you know what's after NV30 for nVidia? my dad works at SGI and he knows a lot of the people at both of those companies, and he said the next nVidia card is gonna rock, but when i said it was coming out in feb or maybe march, he said "no i'm talking about one in like 6 months or something"
    he said the government's looking at it for flight sims and stuff (my dad sells supercomputers to the govt)
    anyone heard of what's coming after NV30?

    --------------

    <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">mubla otohp eht ni ecaf ruoy teg</A>
  19. For there would be a very low percentage of ppl who knew...hehe. I'm wondering in a year how many projects does ATI and Nvidia have. Like let's say NV30 will be released in FEB but they are already in the works with NV35, NV40, NV50 (examples only). How far are they ahead? Made me think that the government buys from the lowest bidder. I also saw on TV that they are already using flight sims and combat sims in the military. The graphics sucks but the system works. Maybe The military wants more realistic flight and combat sims. If that happens commercial and consumer sims could be out too! That'll be sweet!
  20. Its not possible to say ATI is most likely going to do better than Nvidia in the near future.. did you read up on the article for the FX?! Im not sure of other technological backgrounds for card specs.. but a theoretical 48gb/s memory bandwidth.. as well as DDRII, and a poly fill rate of 4gig compared to 2.6g, AND a smaller die size- without a doubt this card will blow away the R300. you cant say either company will do better in the future either.. as someone said before, there are higher chipsets for Nvidia (probably ATI as well) that havent been released yet because of multiple reasons: (a) Im positive that Nvidia has insane vid cards that are developed for special purposes. They arent released to the general public because NO profit would be gained there.. extended costs of card manufacturing, and mass production of a card that could sell for.. lets say $4,000 in retail. A video card that pricey will never sell well to the avg person. My thoughts are, is they both have new ideas that are planned for the future, but also new technologies, that cant be implemented yet,because of the other computer components (Need to be supported by the hardware, which may not be at that level yet.) Once those technologies are provided by other perhiperals, id guess the new technology would be of some use. Dont forget- the new games that will take full advantage of the Geforce FX wont even be out for awhile. once they come out, youll see a dramatic difference. those are my thoughts
  21. Already using the 9700PRO, it is great.

    <b><font color=blue>Press 1 if you want to be on hold, 2 for disconnect, 3 for a representative who will put you on hold before disconnecting.</font color=blue></b>
  22. Quote:
    ATI: Cheaper, fastest.

    Just claryfying this in case of fanby-posts: ATI´s top-cards usually start at a lower price then the top-cards from nVidia. The GeForceFX is expected to start at a price of 600 euro/dollars. ATI also has the fastest card in the market right now.

    The fact that many manufacturers, previous nVidia or not, are starting to make ATI products tells us that ATI isn´t "the second alternative" anymore, they´re almost equal to nVidia in the GC race.

    Quote:
    a theoretical 48gb/s memory bandwidth

    Damn, I love how many super-intelligent people we have here. (not). Theoretical bandwidth is something you use to brag with when your card can´t pull superior numbers. These cards have a few techniques to make sure bandwidth is used wisely, therefore it´s the effective bandwidth that counts. ATI might aswell say the 9700Pro has a ~100 GB/s theoretical bandwidth (I think they even did), but it doesn´t matter as it has 19.8 GB/s effective bandwidth whereas the GFfx has "only" 16. I´m not saying the GFfx will be a bad card, the numbers do look impressive and I hope it´s a good card, this forces other companies to drive technology further. I just don´t buy products based on hype (like one guy who already wen´t and pre-ordered one), I want benchmarks.


    <b>EDIT:</b> Here´s a small goodie for those who haven´t seen it. Keep in mind that this is just one sites <b>"guesstimate"</b>, and should in no circumstances be taken as facts.
    <A HREF="http://download.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/2002/1120/kaigai1_1.jpg" target="_new">http://download.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/2002/1120/kaigai1_1.jpg</A>
    <font color=red>I´m starting to feel like a real computer consultant.</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Ghostdog on 12/21/02 10:42 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
  23. I agree Ghostdog. I like ATI since they are like AMD, best bang for your buck. The reality is not everybody's rich and thanks to ATI we can get great cards for less than the price of the competitor. It may not be the fastest but it's more than enough to satisfy a budget conscious buyer. At least now ATI has the fastest card and priced just right plus other alternatives such as the R9500.

    I may sound like a fanboy but isn't it true that the R300's release was a success. Looking back at the R8500 that wasn't so appealing because the GF3 and GF4 was dragging the R8500 down every chance they get. If the GF FX release will be as successful as the R300 then bravo, I just hope ATI has a counter for the GF FX so at least now we can see both Nvidia and ATI compete head to head. Like what Ghostdog said we want benchmarks!

    BTW I've read several previews for the NV30 and I was kinda disappointed seeing several features of it dumbed down. I'm no expert but I know general stuff. I'd just like to know what are the impressions of "experts" like you when you found out that the NV30 had 128-bit memory, some say the clock was just pumped and not too many features, that Nvidia has pushed NV30 to it's limit, the bulky cooling system is a sign of overworked GPU that produces lotsa heat. I just gathered all of these from what I've read. All I can say is in the world of PC hardware first impressions DOESN'T last. We will all have new impressions as soon as GF FX gets "actually" tested, and I hope those impressions are good ones :]
  24. here's the scoop, Visiontek had of recent run into financial despair, was bought out by Hartford, gets to keep the Visiontek name, was no longer seen as a key player by Nvidia.....Feeling a little BURNED by Nvidia, traded teams to ATI, which I believe was a smart move due to thier(ATI) recent success and lower cost chips...

    Craig M
  25. You're right. I have an old GF2MX and for what my actual computer can do... it's more than enough. I just hope they keep bringing new stuff out so that when I by MY new computer by summer, the Radeon 9500PRO is at a very low price :wink:

    ----
    PII 266
    256 RAM
    GeForce2MX 32MB + Sony Trinitron
    4+3GB
    Benq 56x + TDK 12x10x32x
    <font color=green> ISA Sound card </font color=green> (¡Now that's old! :wink: )
    Windows 98SE (System too slow for XP)
  26. his hidden motive might not even exist.

    He might be an alien! ;)
  27. Actually, nVidia is the hottest graphics card company in terms of popularity amongst gay-merz.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  28. RE: earlier post in this thread.

    I'm hoping that they bring out a radeon 9700pro MAX ie one with two processors before they wheel out the R350.

    Imagine......
  29. Yep, to the average user(ie the people that go and get preconfigured systems without any type of research) Nvidia is the best. Thats why their Geforce4 MX line did so well in the beginning. Its just like Intel and AMD, the average user would rather get a intel p4 2.4ghz with 512sdram than an AMD 2200+ with 512DDR ram.
  30. have to agree with crash on this one but what is bothering me is this fanboy garbage, it doswn't matter who makes the damn card, i could take a ati card an through on some Nvidia stickers and you wouldn't know until u installed the drivers, but hell yeah i love my modded 9700 and its proff on my old ti200 man that thing was a slug i check this card and man i love it, its all about timing and nvidia lost its pace, but it can be made up, the whole comment about amd, bah who cares we all know that gamers love amd cause there cheap an fast and big companys into art stuff prolly using a mac or a high end pentium type processor =) the point being and i know this is off subject but don't be a fanboy, thats a reason why mac went down, the n64 and now the gamecube is seeing this, with so many ppl only buying gamecube games that are only made by nintendo, nintendo stated that they would not see another year in hardware, as soon as the GC dies they are going software much liek sega, can anyone see this as weird? XboX and PS2 leading.. oh boy /cry microsoft has become closer then being on my moniter all day its getting into our T.V.'s i wouldn't be suprised if they owned my cable company =P
  31. For the love of god, PLEASE punctuate! I gave up halfway to breath! :frown:

    --
    This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:
  32. Only thing is, even a couple months ago when a kid (these are mostly kids) on a budget had the option of buying a 1.8A and overclocking it to 2400MHz or buying a 1900+ and overclocking it to 2100+ speeds for similar money, they would still choose AMD because it's more popular with gay-merz. It's all about popularity. Last spring, if you wanted a high end system, your only choice for reasonable money was a 1.6A overclocked to ~2400@150MHz FSB, yet people still choose the 1800+ with very limitted overclockability because of brand loyalty. Generally speaking, whatever is popular with professionals, gay-merz will follow the oposite direction because they think it makes them cool, er, different and better.

    Right now the most powerfull chipset is the nForce2, yet so many gay-merz just want the latest thing from VIA.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  33. Ever heard of the R10000. I read that on Computer Gaming World where they had an article on the soon to be released GF FX. I forgot the code name for it.
  34. You may be right on the loyalty part. But you gotta remember that not all gamers overclock. If you don't overclock a xp1800 would provide better value than a p4 1.6. Even if you do overclock, I think the p4 1.6 costs about 140 at the time. An oem xp1800 costs bout 75. Games at would have benifitted more if you spent the difference on a better video card. Right now although, nforce 2 is the best chipset out, the motherboards also cost over $100. If you pick a VIA KT333 motherboard, it would cost you around $80. It won't perform as well as a nforce2 but it won't be far behind. It does perform better than the alternative SIS745 chipset and its just as stable. Most people have a limited budget to spend on their computer, so it doesn't make them "fanboys" if they choose something other than nforce 2.

    P.S. I don't know where you are from, but people I from around my area that are active gamers, support the Pentium/Nivdia. These people wouldn't go near AMD and some never even heard of ATI. Also what do you have against gamers anyways.

    <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by lancerevolution7 on 01/14/03 05:09 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
  35. 1.) I think last spring when AMD was having all those problems, the 1800+ was about the same price as the 1.6A
    2.) Nothing against all gamers, just that so many seem to be fad followers.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  36. nah actually crash you are hitting the nail right on the head, thats the problem. To many gamers are following the trend, no offense or nothing but a ati 9700pro won't show its age until the 3.0ghz processor really becomes mainstream with everyone, that extra bandwidth we are getting from the radeon 9700pro isn't even being used completely, thats why we can crank up that FSAA and Ansy to make em look purrrrty =P. Plus not enuff games are cauing alot of stress as of yet, but who knows maybe Doom III will stress that card.
  37. i refuse to believe that Doom III will 'stress' a radeon 9700 pro but it should use more of its potential.Can you imagine how foolish it would be to make a game that no-one except people with +$300 cards could play.If it stressed a 9700 pro then you would probably be looking at a minimum ti4200 just to get it to appear on your screen.The games companies know that they have to make games that jimmy dell-buyer can play on his geforce mx.

    no matter how hard you try, you can't polish a turd. :]
  38. Ah, but they could default the game to 800x600 resolution with half the details missing for such cards, and still have a game that puts a fair amount of stress on a high end card at 1280x1024 with all the details enabled.

    <font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
  39. Theres a wide variety of settings possible, a good game engine shows this when it can be flexible and can match all levels. Not just be limited to 1.
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