Proof that ATI has a faster card vs Geforce fx ??

[nexus_alpha]

"In the past, VisionTek had always been closely associated with Nvidia, but when we looked at the technology available from both suppliers, both at present and what's coming over the next nine months, we felt we owed it to our loyal gamers to make the switch to ATI," commented Tony Graffia Jr, president of Hartford Computer Group. "ATI has the best-performing products at every price point and we're confident that they will retain that lead through the coming year."

Just the messenger don't kill me found the read intersting especially seeing how he was talking about NINE MONTHS down the line. After seeing products from both companies in the line-up for that time period the president choices ATI hmmmmm I smell a kick ass card coming.

I mean Visiontek of all companies I mean the had some of the hottest nVIDIA cards ever out.

 

[hartski]

Pretty interesting. It could be that Visiontek is going for the cards(ATI) that will sell more, not the card(Nvidia) that is the best. I'm neutral when it comes to ATI and Nvidia but when it comes to business it's always about the money and not the passion. Well at least most presidents of companies are like that, they aren't really into the joy of computer hardware but all they care about is money. With exception to Bill Gates, he started as a computer geek :]. That's what I think is another possibility.

That guy sounds pretty honest though. He kinda cares about the gamers and not his pocket.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by hartski on 12/18/02 09:52 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[nexus_alpha]

Thanks for your input to was actually very useful. Made think of other possibilities.

 

[AndrewT]

Why would nVIDIA be the best? Maybe that's what YOU think, but others think different.

Way too funny how you write your line... "going for the cards(ATI) that will sell more, not the card(Nvidia) that is the best"..., hope they pay you for the advertising, or at least send you a free fanboy t-shirt. :lol:

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[nexus_alpha]

Easy, he did say he was neutral about ATI and nVIDIA.

 

[hartski]

I'm just stating possibilities...I hope that is well understood. My point was for a long time Nvidia has been ahead of ATI when it comes to the best cards, ever since GeForce 256 came out. However what sells more are the mainstream cards. When the GF FX comes out the R9700 Pro of today will be cheap but still up to date, therefore The R9700 Pro might gain more sales than a new and more expensive GF FX. Besides why would Visiontek change to Nvidia when the GF FX is about to be released early next year. There is no doubt that many are still for Nvidia because of the reputation and the name brand, so why chnage? I think it has something to do with profits too and the agressiveness of ATI to release cards such as the R9700 non-pro, R9500, R9000. They may not be the best cards in their respective arenas but they will likely sell more coz they carry tags such as "DX9, latest technology, cheap price, etc." Again I'm just stating possibilities.

Oh BTW I flushed the idea of waiting for the GF FX and now own an ATI All-In-Wonder 9700 Pro. Nvidia has never beaten ATI when it comes to all-in-one cards!

So can I get 2 t-shirts pleas since I'm a FANBOY for both ATI and Nvidia???

 

[rubikian]

Why would you want to compare so much? As long as the games can run in good frame rates with good quality, that’s it.I don’t really care whether Ati better or Nvidia better. The comparison should let ATI and Nvidia do it since this will make them produce better cards and I’ll just wait for a good card out and get it no matter it’s ATI or Nvidia.

 

[hartski]

Many ppl care and we are just discussing here what's behind that statement by Visiontek. Are they seeing ownage vidcards from ATI that made them switch or some other reasons like more sales or what not.

 

[Foxhound]

haha.. who knows.. maybe at that time ATi or Nvidia might allow trade-ins of old cards for a discount on new ones.

hmm.. now that whould be a good reason to watch out for.. lol.. if it ever comes

 

[vegandago]

actually, if you go to ATI's website they DO accept trade-ins of old cards. I know for a 9700pro you get $50 off if you trade in ANY vidcard. even some old shitty ones.

"There is no dark or light side, only power and those too weak to seek it."

 

[azgard]

I figured this was common knowledge at this point, but visiontek went out of business and were probably bought, if not they are still trying to recover, either way using visiontek as an example doesnt apply to a performance issue, its all money.

 

[RobD]

If ATI are offering trade in....
Must dust off some old 1MB Diamond Stealth PCI card than I think is propping my desk up. At last I've found a use for it!

Money Off! Works for me!

 

[hartski]

Yah ATI trade-in program is a great way to dispose of rotting old vidcards. However if you have like R8500 don't bother, you can easily get 50 bucks out of that in ebay. Besides 350 bucks is the current ceiling street price of R9700 Pro.

 

[hartski]

I did not know Visiontek is going out of business or is struggling. That's why I'm surprised with the change. If ATI bought Visiontek then it'd be very good for ATI. What's left for Nvidia? PNY, eVGA, Asus, Leadtek. However Asus and Leadtek are kinda expensive compared to PNY and eVGA. I really want to see ATI be ahead this time.

 

[AndrewT]

Hey, hands off the ATI t-shirt! It's mine, mine mine mine! :lol: LOL

I just buy the one does better at the moment I need to upgrade.

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[hartski]

At the moment the better one is the R9700 Pro, Unless you wanna wait for the supposedly better GF FX. Supposedly better because ATI might release a new version of the R9700 Pro with DDR-II and prolly higher clock speed or jsut release the R350

 

[Ghostdog]

ATI: Cheaper, fastest.

next nine months

R400 in the fall, hell yeah.

<font color=red>I´m starting to feel like a real computer consultant.</font color=red>

 

[hartski]

Great! R400 in Fall! A little early in my upgrade schedule though :]. BTW what are the chances of selling a videocard that was released a year ago? I really want to sell my AIW 9700 Pro when the R400 comes out. I only remember the R8500 going for 200-250 bucks last year and now it's 100 and under.

"ATI: Cheaper, fastest." - You combined the two prominent reasons suggested why Visiontek switched to ATI. I don't know about fastest when the GF FX comes out but surely ATI will be the cheapest. R350 vs NV30 = most likely R350 will be cheaper!

 

[LtBlue14]

hey do you know what's after NV30 for nVidia? my dad works at SGI and he knows a lot of the people at both of those companies, and he said the next nVidia card is gonna rock, but when i said it was coming out in feb or maybe march, he said "no i'm talking about one in like 6 months or something"
he said the government's looking at it for flight sims and stuff (my dad sells supercomputers to the govt)
anyone heard of what's coming after NV30?

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<A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=faq&notfound=1&code=1" target="_new">mubla otohp eht ni ecaf ruoy teg</A>

 

[hartski]

For there would be a very low percentage of ppl who knew...hehe. I'm wondering in a year how many projects does ATI and Nvidia have. Like let's say NV30 will be released in FEB but they are already in the works with NV35, NV40, NV50 (examples only). How far are they ahead? Made me think that the government buys from the lowest bidder. I also saw on TV that they are already using flight sims and combat sims in the military. The graphics sucks but the system works. Maybe The military wants more realistic flight and combat sims. If that happens commercial and consumer sims could be out too! That'll be sweet!

 

[sh0ck2]

Its not possible to say ATI is most likely going to do better than Nvidia in the near future.. did you read up on the article for the FX?! Im not sure of other technological backgrounds for card specs.. but a theoretical 48gb/s memory bandwidth.. as well as DDRII, and a poly fill rate of 4gig compared to 2.6g, AND a smaller die size- without a doubt this card will blow away the R300. you cant say either company will do better in the future either.. as someone said before, there are higher chipsets for Nvidia (probably ATI as well) that havent been released yet because of multiple reasons: (a) Im positive that Nvidia has insane vid cards that are developed for special purposes. They arent released to the general public because NO profit would be gained there.. extended costs of card manufacturing, and mass production of a card that could sell for.. lets say $4,000 in retail. A video card that pricey will never sell well to the avg person. My thoughts are, is they both have new ideas that are planned for the future, but also new technologies, that cant be implemented yet,because of the other computer components (Need to be supported by the hardware, which may not be at that level yet.) Once those technologies are provided by other perhiperals, id guess the new technology would be of some use. Dont forget- the new games that will take full advantage of the Geforce FX wont even be out for awhile. once they come out, youll see a dramatic difference. those are my thoughts

 

[AndrewT]

Already using the 9700PRO, it is great.

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[Ghostdog]

ATI: Cheaper, fastest.

Just claryfying this in case of fanby-posts: ATI´s top-cards usually start at a lower price then the top-cards from nVidia. The GeForceFX is expected to start at a price of 600 euro/dollars. ATI also has the fastest card in the market right now.

The fact that many manufacturers, previous nVidia or not, are starting to make ATI products tells us that ATI isn´t "the second alternative" anymore, they´re almost equal to nVidia in the GC race.

a theoretical 48gb/s memory bandwidth

Damn, I love how many super-intelligent people we have here. (not). Theoretical bandwidth is something you use to brag with when your card can´t pull superior numbers. These cards have a few techniques to make sure bandwidth is used wisely, therefore it´s the effective bandwidth that counts. ATI might aswell say the 9700Pro has a ~100 GB/s theoretical bandwidth (I think they even did), but it doesn´t matter as it has 19.8 GB/s effective bandwidth whereas the GFfx has "only" 16. I´m not saying the GFfx will be a bad card, the numbers do look impressive and I hope it´s a good card, this forces other companies to drive technology further. I just don´t buy products based on hype (like one guy who already wen´t and pre-ordered one), I want benchmarks.


<b>EDIT:</b> Here´s a small goodie for those who haven´t seen it. Keep in mind that this is just one sites <b>"guesstimate"</b>, and should in no circumstances be taken as facts.
<A HREF="http://download.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/2002/1120/kaigai1_1.jpg" target="_new">http://download.watch.impress.co.jp/pc/2002/1120/kaigai1_1.jpg</A>
<font color=red>I´m starting to feel like a real computer consultant.</font color=red><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Ghostdog on 12/21/02 10:42 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[hartski]

I agree Ghostdog. I like ATI since they are like AMD, best bang for your buck. The reality is not everybody's rich and thanks to ATI we can get great cards for less than the price of the competitor. It may not be the fastest but it's more than enough to satisfy a budget conscious buyer. At least now ATI has the fastest card and priced just right plus other alternatives such as the R9500.

I may sound like a fanboy but isn't it true that the R300's release was a success. Looking back at the R8500 that wasn't so appealing because the GF3 and GF4 was dragging the R8500 down every chance they get. If the GF FX release will be as successful as the R300 then bravo, I just hope ATI has a counter for the GF FX so at least now we can see both Nvidia and ATI compete head to head. Like what Ghostdog said we want benchmarks!

BTW I've read several previews for the NV30 and I was kinda disappointed seeing several features of it dumbed down. I'm no expert but I know general stuff. I'd just like to know what are the impressions of "experts" like you when you found out that the NV30 had 128-bit memory, some say the clock was just pumped and not too many features, that Nvidia has pushed NV30 to it's limit, the bulky cooling system is a sign of overworked GPU that produces lotsa heat. I just gathered all of these from what I've read. All I can say is in the world of PC hardware first impressions DOESN'T last. We will all have new impressions as soon as GF FX gets "actually" tested, and I hope those impressions are good ones :]

 

[GeneticWeapon]

here's the scoop, Visiontek had of recent run into financial despair, was bought out by Hartford, gets to keep the Visiontek name, was no longer seen as a key player by Nvidia.....Feeling a little BURNED by Nvidia, traded teams to ATI, which I believe was a smart move due to thier(ATI) recent success and lower cost chips...

Craig M