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Radeon 9500 Mod into a Radeon 9700

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  • Radeon
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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January 5, 2003 2:54:32 PM

Hi! I would like to hear from someone that can confirm if the following roumors or "guides" is true.
http://www.vr-zone.com/#2817 here is an article that discribes how to mod a 9500 card into a 9700 card by doing somthing to the resistors. If this is true Ati has just inactivated the 4 pixel pipes that are on the Radeon 9700.
But how about the memory?? 256bit on the 9700 and just 128 on the 9500 card. This is a thing i think THG should try and see if it is true.. Thx Micke

More about : radeon 9500 mod radeon 9700

January 5, 2003 9:47:55 PM

I agree, I've seen an article on www.xbitlabs.com saying the same thing. They claim to have gotten the info. from the guy's at www.overclockers.ru. This seems also too good to be true but makes sense as the 9500(128mb) is physically identical to the 9700 with 4 of the pipelines turned off.

This would make a great mod article for Toms hardware but maybe crosses some political lines that THG may not want to get involved in.

Chris
January 5, 2003 10:34:50 PM

Maybe something i'll try when my 9500pro starts to show its age. And if I end up breaking it I'll have an excuse to buy a new card lol.
Related resources
January 6, 2003 1:14:33 AM

Unfortunately it won't work on a 9500pro, it will only work with the 9500 non pro 128mb version, if you look at the 9500 pro it actually physically differs from the 9700,9700pro and the 9500(nonpro) quite a bit. So don't go tearing apart your card yet. You can crack the bios and overclock the 9500pro a bit though.
January 6, 2003 3:51:56 AM

I read an article too, on

http://www.digit-life.com/news.html?1070#1070


I would like to read THG comments about this subject but anyway this is a big hoax and soon or later another site or magazine will buy the idea and make a total report on it ...


In any case worth a while to be connected on the this polemic subject ...
January 6, 2003 5:34:59 AM

use bablefish and look here:
http://www.overclockers.ru/news/newsitem.shtml?category...

If this actualy works I am going to buy me a 9500!!!

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 6, 2003 10:25:38 AM

i've read this also over at PCPOP china, its a pretty respectable site, and they say they have done it themselves and the performance doubles in almost all cases, only a couple of frames behind the stock 9700. once you overclock the card a bit, it performance exactly the same as a stock 9700
January 6, 2003 10:26:17 AM

i've read this also over at PCPOP china, its a pretty respectable site, and they say they have done it themselves and the performance doubles in almost all cases, only a couple of frames behind the stock 9700. once you overclock the card a bit, it performance exactly the same as a stock 9700. i'll be getting my 9500 128mb version as soon as it comes out in australia, gonna sell my 8500 for 100 australian
January 6, 2003 2:41:34 PM

Anyway LET US KNOW, if you buy a R-9500 and make the MODIFICATION post on THG forum, EVERYBODY wants to Know

Thaks
January 6, 2003 4:56:53 PM

i just ordered one. upgrade from 8500 to a 9700 pro for around $160 really a good deal.

:) 
January 7, 2003 1:23:00 AM

Quote:
i just ordered one. upgrade from 8500 to a 9700 pro for around $160 really a good deal.


It is NOT from 8500 to 9700, but 9500 to 9700
January 7, 2003 2:17:51 AM

no, i mean i have a 8500 now, i ordered a 9500 then mod it to 9700 pro. isn't it from 8500 to 9700 pro?

:) 
January 7, 2003 2:59:17 AM

I have a 9500 Pro, but it only works with the non pro version? Not that I'm planning to do this mod or anything, just curious.

If its not broken, you're not trying hard enough.
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2003 3:27:16 AM

Wait: Enabling the other 4 pipes should only make it a 9500 Pro! Tom's said the 9500/Pro only uses 128-bit memory, while the 9700/Pro uses 256-bit memory.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
January 7, 2003 7:28:27 AM

yes that is right, all you are doing is enabling the other 4 pipelines to make the memory 256bit rather than 128bit which effectively doubles the memory bandwidth 9500 8.8gb bandwidth 9700 17.7gb band width the 9700 is only clocked slightly higher than the 9500 and when you use the 9700 bios file (you have to) you clock your card at the 9700's stock speed. overclocking above that makes it more than possible to get to 9700 pro levels.

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 7, 2003 12:45:51 PM

Of course youre right
January 7, 2003 1:19:59 PM

No..it will not work...
U need 2 things to get it to work..and i strongly doubt u'll find either of them:
1- A radeon 9500 on a 9700PCB ( 6 layer vs 8 layer)
2- That 9500 should have 128MB
a b U Graphics card
January 7, 2003 5:54:11 PM

You mean they actually use 256-bit RAM in 128-bit mode on these things? I find that a little hard to believe.

<font color=blue>You're posting in a forum with class. It may be third class, but it's still class!</font color=blue>
January 7, 2003 6:57:42 PM

dunno, but sounds intreasting, it only makes sense that they have only turned off the 4 pixel piplines, for one it costs nothing and it is a easy cut off i guess.. but i have a 9500 non pro and will look further into this,
January 7, 2003 9:11:10 PM

Here's my conclusion that it DOES work, since i am going to test this when my card arrives in the mail. Anyways i think that is completely why ATi released the pro version, it only makes sense that they print all of the cards on the same style, since it saves on spendings but to boot moving a resistor to reroute the current to disable the 4 pipelines is a budget way instead of printing an entirly new set of cards just for the 9500, but since they did with the pro it is virtually impossible to do this, since it is a pure dual bank of 128bit ... can't wait to try this out =)
January 7, 2003 10:48:45 PM

the 9500 128mb BBA uses the same pcb as the 9700, the 128mb memory is 256bit. thats y it is possible to mod it to a 9700
providing that you've solder the correct parts and also flash the bios with 9700 bios.
at the moment, it is not possible to mod a 64mb version 9500 into a 9500pro, since ATI never released a 64mb 9500pro, therefore, there is no suitable bios for the job

it is also possible to mod a 9500 and 9700 to a M1 or X1.
http://www.pcpop.com/view.asp?type=news&id=8605
January 8, 2003 1:20:32 AM

ok just for all the non believers that this isn't possible the possible JUST happend.... here is the link for more info...

http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/showflat.plCat=&Boa...">

Only problem is that there were a few artifacts in the advanced pixel test.. other than that he stated that it ran stable, and when he clocked the card down to a 9500pro verison the artifacts left, which is most likely caused by the ram either being slower or the fact that the voltage is a bit off, but for the non believers eat up, since this not so good card could save you up to 150 bucks if u have the know how and are capable of doing so....
January 8, 2003 1:30:41 AM

Sorry that link was incorrect,

9500:
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5561993

9700 modded:
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5564580

Also with the misconception everyone was having, the 9500 only truely struggles because of the 4 disabled pixel pipelines, which kills its multitextureing fill rate and single texture fill rate, those are what to note on, because all real world games performance is based off of fill rate.
Fill Rate (Single-Texturing)(MTexels/s)
911.0

jumped to

1535.1

while...

Fill Rate (Multi-Texturing(MTexels/s)was

1085.5

while it increased to

2169.3

it is doubling in scores on fill rate, now that 9500 non pro isn't so bad is it =) i should be recieving mine 2marrow or thursday, laughing cuase i thought i bought a POS but thanks to my soldering class and what not i should have some system posts of what my marks will be =). I'm stoked =)
January 8, 2003 1:59:01 AM

nice explanation :) 
January 8, 2003 2:10:53 AM

so all this mod does is turn the 9500 into a 9500 pro right? Because the 9500 pro uses all 8 pixel pipelines and the 9500 does not. I guess the translation was a bit confusing


smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 8, 2003 2:26:59 AM

is THG going to mod the 9500 to 9700 pro too?

:) 
January 8, 2003 2:29:10 AM

correction, all it does is to change a 9500 to a 9500pro that has a 256bit memory bus, instead of the stock 128bit of a normal 9500pro.

btw, did that guy flashed his bios with the 9700? or did he lefted it as 9500? maybe thats whats casuing the artifacts. the memory chip from the 128mb 9500 are the same ones used on the 9500pro and the 9700 rite?
January 8, 2003 3:17:10 AM

wait why would ati put 256bit ram on the cards that only use 128bit... it seems silly and a waste of money

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 8, 2003 4:35:29 AM

read below staright of digit life

The RADEON 9700 Pro was released so much time ago but the 9500 model hasn't yet received a separate PCB or a separate chip. Why? Why did ATI decide to cut the memory size of a RADEON 9700 based card and cut off the chip? Cards based on a 8-layer PCB with a 256-bit bus are quite expensive (as we mentioned in the review on the RADEON 9500). Besides, it uses the same expensive R300.

The analyses of certain information from reliable sources shows that the cost price of such PCBs is not so high anymore, because the production technique is already mastered both by PC Partner (which manufactured all RADEON 9700 Pro in the beginning) and by the partners most of which have already started making such cards and PCBs. As we know, a product goes to the mass market when the expenses on its production become as low as possible. As for the chips... The same sources notify that the production of the VPU R300 is getting stable, that is why the prime cost of them is falling down as the percentage of valid dies grows up.

Therefore, having estimated the benefits of production of separate PCBs and chips, ATI and its partners chose the approach of "Velocity 100", i.e. they assemble the RADEON 9500 on the same 9700 model with the memory chip "shortened". It's possible that they use graphics processors that failed to work at the frequencies specified for the RADEON 9700 Pro, because the 9500 is to be clocked at 275 MHz against 325 MHz of the RADEON 9700 Pro. Though it's also possible that they strip off normal chips. However, even in this case there are a lot of questions to be answered: for example, is such cut-off implemented on the software level or on the hardware one? We'll get back to this issue later.

------------------

And this card comes with the 256-bit interface! That is why the readers should remember this surprise from ATI:

Until they develop a design specially for the RADEON 9500 based cards (and it's probable that they will never do it, because production of cards based on the current design becomes cheaper with time), we should remember that the 64MB and 128MB cards differ only in the memory exchange interface: 128 and 256 bits. This can't help having an effect on the performance, though the VPU is stripped off markedly, and even a 256-bit bus would hardly help the 4-pipeline chip change its speed considerably (but our tests will show that the speed gain is noticeable).


but who would've thought that the 128mb radeon 9500 is almost the exact replica of the 9700, and who would've thought some highly intelligent russian dude wearing fur hats would've figger out how to unlock the sucker while drinking their vodka.

the full story can be viewed at
http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/radeon/sapphire-r95...
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by 10GHZ on 01/08/03 01:42 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 8, 2003 6:10:39 PM

aye, seems funny but it was atis cheap way of dropping a lower class model, and that 128bit differce DOES make a difference, compar a pro 9500 and a 9700, and when u do the soldering trick it makes a non pro 9500 a 9700 non pro with stock speeds after you flash your bois, i had asked the guy this question in an email, while the pro9500 has NO WAY AT ALL! to be a 9700 because the memory interface is dual 128bit therefore unable to change the interface since it is set to only read 128bit, but with a non pro being a 256bit with 4 pixel pipelines stripped makes it a 256bit card with only 4pipelines, when the resistor is soldered onto place at 12, it becomes a 256-bit with 8pipelines, people had been thinking it was a 128bit card with 4 pixel pipelines... my conclusion ends, so heres the proof

9500 non pro mods to 9700 non pro stock speed, u can mod your card if it is a 128bit sapphire ati 9500 non pro version, which i had just recieved.

just solder, flash bios with hercules 9700 non pro version edit and bam restart, and enjoi =) should have some results , wether i fail or succeed, i will post results this saturday or monday depending on arrival....
January 8, 2003 10:24:40 PM

You know for such a respectable card maker to do something like that raises my eyebrow seeing as I just got my Rad 9700 and love it...
January 8, 2003 11:22:30 PM

i'm getting my sapphire radoen 9500 128mb as soon as it is released in australia around feb .. can't wait

and does anyone live around sydeny area wants to buy my 6 month old Hightech Radoen 8500 retail? for 100 bucks?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by 10GHZ on 01/08/03 08:23 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 9, 2003 12:58:23 AM

i would like to sell my Gigabyte Radeon 8500 clocked @ 300/300 for $80. (still has 6 months warranty on it). Free shipping. Interested please reply here. :) 

:) 
January 9, 2003 4:32:13 AM

100 dollars australian that is.
January 9, 2003 11:37:44 AM

Just want to give everyone a bit of warning. Before you attempt this mods, try follow up with this tread on rage3d.com
http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=...

There seem to be a problem with mod the R9500np to 9700np using the resister mod and bios flash. The mod do give you better performance as many people at rage3d board success. BUT many of them report artifact appear in many games and benchmarks. I read the article on the website that come up with the mod as well and all they say is the mod work in term of performance but never discuss about artifact.

Just a bit of advice and warning. I really wish that everyone that want to try this mod success. I, myself, will buy R9700Pro if I want the performance of R9700Pro when it is at a price I can afford :) 

Mocca

Nvidia or ATI, it's all depend on what you like and system optimization :lol: 
January 9, 2003 9:32:44 PM

The early engineering samples that were reviewed used 256-bit memory. I remember thinking how could the reviews be representative of the final product if the memory bandwidth is twice as high. Of course, I didn't know they had a way to castrate the memory bandwidth.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b>
January 9, 2003 11:39:40 PM

wow that explains the cost issues nicely, does this trick work on the 9500 pro's, because they have all 8 pipelines you should be able to get to 9700 speeds...probably a dumb question, I'm pretty sure it would work, This may be my next card I need something fast and cheap and I love to mod my parts, it is much more satisfying than to just buy the top of the line.

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 10, 2003 2:18:09 AM

dont think so.. since the R9500 pro only comes with a 128bit memory interface. while the 128mb R9500 comes with 256bit.
January 10, 2003 2:22:51 AM

i think it depends on which brand of R9500 u get. the tested Sapphire 128mb R9500 is reported to be a complete success, no artifatcs what so ever, even when the card has been overclocked over the 9700pro level(see my early post with the link). not sure about the other brand. the artifacts is a known issue when a 64mb R9500 is modded.


see below
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/story.html?id=1041958046
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by 10GHZ on 01/09/03 11:27 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 10, 2003 8:06:49 AM

now I'm real confused according to this site:
<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/sapphire/radeon9500/" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/sapphire/radeon9500/&lt;/A> the 9500 has a 128bit bus too, the only diff between the 9500 and the 9500pro is the abount of pipelines and this hack doesnt even deal with them, it only makes the 9500/pro have the full 256bit bus

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 11, 2003 2:14:42 AM

thats a 64mb Radeon 9500, it only has a 128bit memory bus.. so if you mod it, it'll turn into a Radeon 9500 Pro 64mb.
but the 128mb version radeon 9500 has 256bit memory bus, so when you mod it, it turns into a 9700
January 11, 2003 6:50:55 AM

both the pro and the non pro have the 128 bus! stop confusion! ahhhhhh!!! the only differance is the non pro has a lower clock and half the pipes, the pro version is modable too and it will be faster than the non pro when modded as it will have all pipelines and a higher potential for an overclock

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
January 11, 2003 7:28:19 AM

no, the 9500 pro can't be modded.
9500 non pro 128MB can be modded to 9700.
9500 non pro 64MB can be modded to 9500 pro 64MB.
that's it!


:) 
January 11, 2003 7:35:36 AM

"If we look back at the Radeon 9500, 9500 PRO & 9700 Preview we'll remember that the Radeon 9500, that ATLANTIS 9500 is based upon, is basically a lower powered R300 chip that exists within Radeon 9700 PRO. Whereas Radeon 9700 PRO features a core clock speed of 325MHz, has 8 pixel pipelines, a 256-bit memory bus and 128MB of 610MHz DDR RAM, Radeon 9500 only has a 275MHz core speed, 4 pixel pipelines, a 128-bit bus (two 64-bit 'crossbar' controllers) and 64MB of DDR RAM at 540MHz. While the potency of the Radeon 9500 chip has been scaled back somewhat from the 9700 PRO, the plus side is that the entire DirectX9 feature set of R300 is still available in Radeon 9500 and hence ATLANTIS Radeon 9500."

clearly, it says the "64MB" none pro 9500 has a 128bit memory bus, NOT the 128mb :) 
January 11, 2003 6:11:58 PM

if all this mod does is make the 9500's 128bit bus a 256 bit bus then it would still be crippled by its pipelines, it would not reach 9700 levels is the pipeline issue corrected as well?

smurf A- I saw you leave with smurfette
smurf B- oh man as soon as we got out of the bar she started smurfing me
smurf A- shut the smurf up
smurf A- right in the smurfing pariking lot?
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