Iron Heroes: a couple of weapon questions

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How come the bastard sword is a finesse weapon? Is this the whole
katana-wielding speed-demon ninja thing?

How come the longsword is neither a power nor finesse weapon (especially
since bastard is finesse...)? Doesn't that mean that it is, for most
people, a suboptimal choice, since you don't get to use many of Power
and Finesse feats with it? That's a bit strange, since the longsword was
somewhat of a mainstay of the D&D adventuring population since I started
playing 2E.

How come the example executioner, with his Weapon Finesse feat, uses a
greatsword? Is the executioner using Weapon Finesse with the greatsword
in some way I'm missing, or is the idea that he's using it with the
dagger (which is also a part of his starting equipment), and just
carrying the greatsword for cosmetic effect?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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Also, the example harrier has a scimitar, but she doesn't appear to be
proficient with it since it's a sword; power, slashing, and harriers are
proficient with simple weapons and martial projectile and finesse
weapons.


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
> Also, the example harrier has a scimitar, but she doesn't appear to be
> proficient with it since it's a sword; power, slashing, and harriers are
> proficient with simple weapons and martial projectile and finesse
> weapons.

The scimitar is a finesse weapon in the errata.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
The geek with roots in Hell!
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

Who do you blame when your kid is a - brat?
Pampered and spoiled like a Siamese - cat?
Blaming the kids is a lie and a - shame!
You know exactly who's - to - blame:
The mother and the father!

 

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"Jasin Zujovic" <jzujovic@inet.hr> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d66dd29782fc7259897ae@news.iskon.hr...
> How come the bastard sword is a finesse weapon? Is this the whole
> katana-wielding speed-demon ninja thing?

Yes.

>
> How come the longsword is neither a power nor finesse weapon (especially
> since bastard is finesse...)? Doesn't that mean that it is, for most
> people, a suboptimal choice, since you don't get to use many of Power
> and Finesse feats with it? That's a bit strange, since the longsword was
> somewhat of a mainstay of the D&D adventuring population since I started
> playing 2E.

Who knows?

>
> How come the example executioner, with his Weapon Finesse feat, uses a
> greatsword? Is the executioner using Weapon Finesse with the greatsword
> in some way I'm missing, or is the idea that he's using it with the
> dagger (which is also a part of his starting equipment), and just
> carrying the greatsword for cosmetic effect?
>
I suspect that whoever created the sample character misread the
executioner's
ability to use power feats with finesse weapons and reversed it.

Geoff.

 

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In article <WZbLe.82170$oJ.56191@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
mhacdebhandia@yahoo.invalid says...

> > Also, the example harrier has a scimitar, but she doesn't appear to be
> > proficient with it since it's a sword; power, slashing, and harriers are
> > proficient with simple weapons and martial projectile and finesse
> > weapons.
>
> The scimitar is a finesse weapon in the errata.

Yeah, I though about checking the errata short time after I posted.

Errata doesn't help with my other issues, though. I'd be interested to
hear your thoughts, though...?


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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In article <AcbLe.27023$Le2.210144@nasal.pacific.net.au>,
geoffwatson@pacific.net.au says...

> > How come the bastard sword is a finesse weapon? Is this the whole
> > katana-wielding speed-demon ninja thing?
>
> Yes.

Eh. I like bastard swords, visually, and I like that I can play a
harrier modelled on Michelle Yeoh in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon,
jumping off walls with a bastard sword in hand, but still... eh. You can
do fancy wuxia tricks with a bastard sword, but not a longsword?

> > How come the longsword is neither a power nor finesse weapon (especially
> > since bastard is finesse...)? Doesn't that mean that it is, for most
> > people, a suboptimal choice, since you don't get to use many of Power
> > and Finesse feats with it? That's a bit strange, since the longsword was
> > somewhat of a mainstay of the D&D adventuring population since I started
> > playing 2E.
>
> Who knows?

One thing I just noticed: a longsword can be used with Combat Expertise,
while a bastard sword can't, since Combat Expertise has a negatively
phrased requirement: no power weapons allowed (and the bastard sword is
both a power and a finesse weapon).

> > How come the example executioner, with his Weapon Finesse feat, uses a
> > greatsword? Is the executioner using Weapon Finesse with the greatsword
> > in some way I'm missing, or is the idea that he's using it with the
> > dagger (which is also a part of his starting equipment), and just
> > carrying the greatsword for cosmetic effect?
>
> I suspect that whoever created the sample character misread the
> executioner's ability to use power feats with finesse weapons
> and reversed it.

That was the first thing that crossed my mind too. A shame, really; I'd
prefer it if it were like that, since I like the "precise control even
with a bigass weapon" concept better than "brute force even with a wimpy
weapon" concept. Oh well; there's still the bastard sword-wielding
harrier...


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr

 

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Jasin Zujovic wrote:
>
> Errata doesn't help with my other issues, though. I'd be interested to
> hear your thoughts, though...?

You know you're a jerk for making me look back at what you said, right?

> How come the bastard sword is a finesse weapon? Is this the whole
> katana-wielding speed-demon ninja thing?

Possibly. Perhaps Mearls wants to encourage people to use it because it's
slightly mechanically better than a longsword, perhaps it's a mistake they
didn't catch yet.

> How come the longsword is neither a power nor finesse weapon (especially
> since bastard is finesse...)? Doesn't that mean that it is, for most
> people, a suboptimal choice, since you don't get to use many of Power
> and Finesse feats with it? That's a bit strange, since the longsword was
> somewhat of a mainstay of the D&D adventuring population since I started
> playing 2E.

Maybe Mearls is sick of the longsword being the mainstay - but maybe it's a
mistake too. On the other hand, while the Hunter is the only class which doesn't
get a default Finesse or Power feat mastery progression at some point (except as
part of his "all feat mastery" progression), there's a large number of feats in
those two categories which don't require the use of the weapons that share their
descriptor:

FINESSE - Combat Expertise (it can't be used with a power weapon), Improved
Critical (lacking any descriptors, the longsword qualifies for the base
mastery), Mounted Combat, Two-Weapon Fighting (which is available under Finesse
and Power, and can be used with weapons of the mastery type you selected the
feat with *or* weapons like the longsword which lack the other descriptor),
Weapon Focus, Whirlwind Attack.

POWER - Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical, Improved Overrun,
Improved Sunder, Mounted Combat, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus.

> How come the example executioner, with his Weapon Finesse feat, uses a
> greatsword? Is the executioner using Weapon Finesse with the greatsword
> in some way I'm missing, or is the idea that he's using it with the
> dagger (which is also a part of his starting equipment), and just
> carrying the greatsword for cosmetic effect?

Perhaps the sample executioner is built for efficiency - at low levels, he
carries a greatsword for dealing damage, but has taken Weapon Finesse 1 as
prerequisite for all of those awesome dice of sneak attack later? Perhaps later
he'll discard the greatsword once he's pumped up Razor Fiend et cetera.

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
The geek with roots in Hell!
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

Who do you blame when your kid is a - brat?
Pampered and spoiled like a Siamese - cat?
Blaming the kids is a lie and a - shame!
You know exactly who's - to - blame:
The mother and the father!

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

One of the voices in my head - or was it Jasin Zujovic? - just said...
> How come the bastard sword is a finesse weapon? Is this the whole
> katana-wielding speed-demon ninja thing?
>
> How come the longsword is neither a power nor finesse weapon (especially
> since bastard is finesse...)? Doesn't that mean that it is, for most
> people, a suboptimal choice, since you don't get to use many of Power
> and Finesse feats with it? That's a bit strange, since the longsword was
> somewhat of a mainstay of the D&D adventuring population since I started
> playing 2E.
>
> How come the example executioner, with his Weapon Finesse feat, uses a
> greatsword? Is the executioner using Weapon Finesse with the greatsword
> in some way I'm missing, or is the idea that he's using it with the
> dagger (which is also a part of his starting equipment), and just
> carrying the greatsword for cosmetic effect?

If you haven't already, wouldn't the Malhavoc boards be the best place
to ask?