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GeforceFX benchmarks - divided opinions?

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January 27, 2003 1:11:56 PM

Well toms finally has it benchmarked, plently of good and bad things were said and the overall conclusion was good aswell. however, not everyone seemes to share this opinion.
<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1779" target="_new">Anandtech seemed less impressed with the fx.</A>

I might be a bit biased here. I do own a 9700pro and i might have found it hard to see how toms could could have praised the card as much as they did but I think these guys feel the same way i do =P <A HREF="http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=cd847dcb60..." target="_new">Rage3d discusion on toms review</A>

You can be on either side of the fence on this one but all i know is that this should shape up to be an interesting year.
January 27, 2003 1:35:09 PM

I haven't seen much praise for this card at all. Even tom said that it's going to be hard for Nvidia to sell this card (at least I thought he did, the site won't load right now).

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Forum Assassin</A></font color=red>
January 27, 2003 2:15:47 PM

I think that any praise that THG gave the card was about being the fastest. If you need to have the fastest card, THG would be stupid to recommend the Radeon 9700 pro over the GFFX. However, THG did emphasize strongly the problems it had with heat and noise levels. It also mentioned several times that it was only a small lead over ATI's card. If you just read the conclusions, you might miss some very important points that were made in the article.

I am just too dissapointed with the noise to ever consider getting one even if someone else offered to pay for it. Why get something that puts out twice the noise for only a 5% gain in performance? I would prefer to have half the performance if getting more performance meant sacrificing my hearing (I would have to turn the volume up quite a bit in order to drown out the cooling fan noise).
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January 27, 2003 2:27:12 PM

Considering that you can buy a passivly cooled 9700 Pro, ie NO noise, there's almost no reason to buy the FX unless you really really need that extra speed.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Forum Assassin</A></font color=red>
January 27, 2003 2:51:45 PM

Quote:

I am just too dissapointed with the noise to ever consider getting one even if someone else offered to pay for it. Why get something that puts out twice the noise for only a 5% gain in performance? I would prefer to have half the performance if getting more performance meant sacrificing my hearing (I would have to turn the volume up quite a bit in order to drown out the cooling fan noise).

Actually, dB is a logarithmic scale so 60dB is 1000x more noise than 30dB for example.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
January 27, 2003 3:20:35 PM

ok so the fx hit 77db? dont people get hearing damage at around 100db or so? I think i heard it on a special about people who cant hear because of rock concerts.

And according to anandtecs review the fx sacraficed quality for performance(AA examples on anandtecs site)? dirty play or unintensional? =P
January 27, 2003 3:27:19 PM

I agree as well that the GeForce FX has disappointed. I plan on finally upgrading my aging 800MHz GeForce2 GTS 64MB (former)God Box around April. And if ATI comes through with either a new card, or a price drop on the 9700 Pro, then I'm going with ATI next.

I game with headphones, but if the noise is as loud as a vacuum cleaner and can be heard in other rooms, then that's just stupid. And the review is right, how can they lower the noise by production time?? Lower the fan quality/speed?? So the heat rises even more? I don't think so.

Bottom line is they have a card that's 5% faster is SOME tests, mostly high-end where few people game at, and is even beaten in some mainstream settings. Plus much more heat & noise. And at either the same or higher price point (depending on ATI). Sounds like a loser to me.
January 27, 2003 4:02:40 PM

Actually, hearing damage starts to occur at 90 dBa.

--------------
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January 27, 2003 4:15:37 PM

Hmm, imagine if you have a GFFX + a 7000 or 8000RPM delta fan + a couple of high-speed case fans alll in one case. You could easily have a 90dB system now!!! w00t!!! :smile: :tongue:

Prepare to go deaf!!!

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
January 27, 2003 4:23:57 PM

well i've always been a fan of nVdia cards over ATI, but i think ATI has this one won with the 9700pro..

if ATI lowers the price from like upper 300's to maybe mid $ range like 340--360$, people will still buy this card over the the FX, i thought the FX was going to BLOW AWAY everything..

like i said once before in another graphics post... all this ATI/nVidia means nothing because now nVidia might release something quick to really impress you guys, but then another 3 months later or something ATI will release something to kill that.. and so on and so on. I think ATI have done a great job makeing a well manufacturd GPU. nVidia didn't impress me enough to say Holy crap i gotta have this thing.. i just built a system and through a gf4ti4200.. and it's pretty nice, so i won't be upgrading for awhile.. maybe over a yr.. so by then, who the hell knows what will be out.

congrats to ATI i think they have the better card in this matchup

RIG
Asus A7N8X Deluxe
80gb Maxtor
Lian-Li PC-60
Lite-On 52X
AMD XP2800+
LeadTek GeForce 4 Ti4200 w/vivo 128mb 8x
Hitachi CML174
1 GB Corsair XMS PC3200 Cas2
January 27, 2003 4:31:07 PM

Sigh.... I am so disappinted! nothing more to say....
January 27, 2003 4:34:39 PM

hm..

several combinations:
an ati card, with .13, with the ram of the gfFX, the bandwith of the ati, and the cooling system of the gfFX, clocked at highest possible speed. gfFX could not even see this radeon in front of itself, it would be too far away

ati card, .13, and all the fancy features. no fan, clocked to 9500 speed or so. should be runable in a laptop. try to get the gfFX to even only fit into a laptop:D 

gfFX with passive cooling.. oh wait.. i was dreaming:D 

all in all, i loved the comparison to the voodoo5.
then, the gfFX has the FX because of the work together with ex - 3dFX.. then i remember the statement of nvidia they took the best of 3dFX as well over for this card..
hm.. i just remember 3dFX died..:D 

and their cheatings for gaining speed by killing image quality (see anandtech).. i'm sorry.. they once cried around on ati for their faster anysotropic, wich was a bit lower quality than nvidias anysotropic. look at this now.

never ever say ati did cheated during the last years. _THAT_NOW_ is cheating:D 

but i don't think anyone at nvidia could hear our cries. they yet now run gfFX.. even in 2d mode, they could not hear us..:D 

"take a look around" - limp bizkit

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January 27, 2003 4:53:50 PM

haha yes 90db of gaming power. Imagine, your very own "The Who" concert right inside your PC!

Just got back from the dentist here, he must think im some kind of masochist. I started laughing when i heard the drill rev up, couldnt stop thinking about the sound of the geforceFX. Then i thought about someone trying to put an FX card in their mouth, man that thing would suck your kindeys out in a jiffy.

good times.
January 27, 2003 5:14:17 PM

Did anyone actually download the MP3s from the article. That sound is horrible. No way would I buy that. I thought my Radeon 9700Pro was a little noisy. This beast from Nvidia is awful. They would have to quadruple the performance before I would even consider it. Or maybe I could put the computer in the basement and monitor upstairs. Can anyone say headset?

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 27, 2003 5:21:16 PM

I downloaded them, and after 10 seconds my jaw hit the desk. I couldn't beleive what I was hearing. It felt like the cleaners were in the office revving up the vac!

And not even a decent jump in performance over the R9700Pro. Nvidia just launched the worlds biggest lemon.
January 27, 2003 5:23:31 PM

Lol! They could sponsor Slipknot. Imagine it......

<b>"Slipknot and Nvidia. Noise Merchants supreme!"</b>
January 27, 2003 5:32:04 PM

Quote:
then i remember the statement of nvidia they took the best of 3dFX as well over for this card..
hm.. i just remember 3dFX died..:D 

Well, I just think that it is a good thing that nVidia started making chipsets. They have offered much more innovation there than with their video cards. I don't know how they are going to sell the Geforce FX, but I still just love the nForce2. I wonder what the nForce3 chipset will be like? Wouldn't an integrated Radeon 9500 be nice? But I don't think they would ever do that unless they gave up doing graphics cards completely. Even then, they would probably prefer to work with someone other than ATI.

Anyway, my point was that they shouldn't die like 3dfx. Not while they produce such a good chipset.
January 27, 2003 5:33:14 PM

Quote:
if ATI lowers the price from like upper 300's to maybe mid $ range like 340--360$, people will still buy this card over the the FX, i thought the FX was going to BLOW AWAY everything..


Actually the Radeon 9700 Pro retails for $350 now. The $400 is MSRP I think.
January 27, 2003 6:16:01 PM

I'm going to start recommending the FX to trolls.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Introducing the NVIDIA GeForceFX: The first Videocard designed exclusively for deaf people!</A></font color=red>
January 27, 2003 6:41:21 PM

even that is a little to harse even the nasty amd /intel trolls don't desserve that!... do you think it would be posible to put a usable cooling system on the fx... or would the person have to mod it and put a cpu heatsink on it... is the abit otes this loud as it uses the same type of cooling on a 4200...

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/andrewwgoodwin/index.htm" target="_new">Computer Specs Updated</A>..<A HREF="http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4899328" target="_new">3d mark 2k1 1249points</A>
January 27, 2003 7:08:19 PM

Thank god more mainboards have everything integrated, so PCI slots are less used, for this card to sit in right lol. (nForce 2 from Asus had us wondering, we did not have any PCI card to put in, weird...)

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:
January 27, 2003 7:31:14 PM

It still strikes me as odd that 500MHZ was needed for 350M triangles.
Seriously, it has always been that a MHZ equals 1M triangles, but it seems to be this card either has over 30% pipeline bubbles per second, or that it has some shared architecture that lowers the total amount of processed triangles.
Not only this, but the 500MHZ core was most likely mainly for this reason, to get the extra triangles out, yet that "quantum" 175MHZ jump warranted the death of the beginning of 0.13m video cards.
At 68ºC, 75Watts, with expensive and noisy cooling, this is most certainly not recommended for any AMD system running Thunderbirds, with a very closed and isolated case!
Not to mention it could probably transfer and burn a PCI card in slot 2!

If nVidia really worked hard on it, they could've been able to create more triangles per Hertz like the R300 does (having one per Hz), clocked it at or below the R300's core clock, AND removed such cooling, AND used perhaps passive cooling since they run on 0.13m, AND reserved so much headroom for the FX, and have gotten a still more performing card. Let us not board onto the death of DDR-2 as we know it, going for the overkill 1GHZ DDR-2 bandwidth, at 128-bit (wow, and it runs hot at THIS 'outdated' bit width), and manage less bandwidth. 48GB/sec of theoretical bandwidth, yeah right!
No, nVidia went for such raw weakness, that it is even more shameful than the Pentium 4's departure from high IPC. If nVidia did it right, they'd have done what I said with the core clock, went for much slower DDR-2 but used the real 4-bit prefetch, OR switched like ATi to 256-bit width, and could have doubled their bandwidth and eaten ATi alive.
Instead they went for such very questionable component speeds, that it feels weird that nVidia is even doing this. With the current comments, I feel this board will become quite easily a pro-ATi board for a good while. This is what happens when competition gets fierce, and suprisingly, head honchos like nVidia failed miserably. It kind of shows that maybe Intel could have the same scenario unexpectedly. (though it won't, the Wilamette P4 was a humiliation yet it sold well thanks to Intel's OEM support and marketting, and competition pricing)

My friend threw 2 lines of HAHAs on MSN after he heard the MP3s. Seriously, no one in their right mind can survive THAT. Even my Volcano 7 in summer was ok compared to this!
Free Swiftec MCX462s to everyone!!!

Oh and let us not board the amount of glitches it comes with.
Look, I can understand that a new generation card will come with problems, geForce 3 was exactly that. (and even worse at first) But unfortunatly this is now a time of extreme competition. ATi back then was barely competing, nVidia had the market! Now, since ATi has created and is still creating more and more fans and potential buyers, nVidia's low performing and buggy card CANNOT do such errors in this capitalistic market. This time, they CANNOT. But I like the title of the article, well said THG.
Those who said nVidia drivers are fool-proof should reword their statements, because now even the geForce 4s have been uncovered having Zbuffer glitches.

As an owner of a geForce 3 Ti200, I must say, this card of mine feels better than the new generation of nVidia's, and I am sorely and very much disappointed.

However, the card is not without its highs, it is good to see it perform decently well, and it did have some nice rises occasionally (not to mention a very surprising 30MT/sec score in the 8Light test of 3dMark 2001, a two-fold jump which is simply eye opening), however, most of them were in the synthetic benches, which is not what we want to look at.

Even with the current R9700PRO's rather weak driver performance (as stated and seen), it was able to compete so well.

Can you guys imagine the cheaper 5800 plain version? Maybe that 200MT spec found on a reseller was not wrong. Dear god, that card better sell for less than 200$ and with a god forbid more adequate cooler.

The thing that did however surprise me was the price tag. I thought it'd go for the 100% unsellable 499$, but it turned out 399$, which in a way improves the overall selling chance. But even then, only fanboys will be tempted, and even if it reaches a 200$ price tag one day, the noise level alone is a very big back turner which can affect even very low priced cards.
How on earth did nVidia continue with this card is beyond me. No really, it just frankly surprises me there was no improvement whatsoever! They PROMISED cooler noise improvement. And the benches we saw on the web seemed to indicate potential which was not even seen! I simply don't understand how can nVidia launch the card out like this with no refining, thinking in their right mind that it will sell for suckers, when it is already being bashed worldwide. It's like they are thinking with Intel's mindset, and their marketting prowess.

I now look at mr. Flamethrower, who has always praised nVidia. Please, do share your thoughts, as you so seemed to indicate it could buy you out.

I am really happy for ATi, I am sure they are now already predicting even more rising sales, as I bet over 30% of the market was holding out to see how the FX will perform and retail. Now that 30% has decided, it is going the other route. Hurrah, the stocks will rise, my school virtual stock simulation portfolio will rise finally! :smile:


EDIT: After checking some Anandtech benchmarks, which featured the 5800 plain, I am enticed to wonder, just how much will it cost. The performance difference is not huge, and if it can sell for less than 299$ and with a refined silent cooler, it just might be worthy. Even then though, the cards have so much driver performance problems, they tend to lose so often in many tests, so it is still a very undecisive situation.
--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile: <P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 01/27/03 04:35 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 27, 2003 8:22:59 PM

Quote:
an ati card, with .13, with the ram of the gfFX, the bandwith of the ati, and the cooling system of the gfFX, clocked at highest possible speed. gfFX could not even see this radeon in front of itself, it would be too far away

No.... no. You can't make me use that cooling system. I don't have my pilot's license.

You left out one excellent idea. An ATI card w/ 0.13, DDR2 RAM of the GFFX, clocked at highest possible speed w/ water cooling for the CPU and GPU. <i><font color=purple>Silent and violent!</font color=purple></i>

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 27, 2003 8:40:59 PM

Water cooling is an idea. How hard would it be to remove that insane cooler and use water cooling? If it isn't too hard, then maybe the GeForce FX isn't so bad after all. They just need to put a warning on the box that says

'water cooling highly recommended, possible hearing damage with stock fan'
January 27, 2003 9:37:35 PM

Yes, but the cost is getting silly just to run stock speeds with reasonable noise. Hopefully the production units will do better with the noise.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 27, 2003 9:54:31 PM

You hope. 70 to 75W is still 70 to 75W. That is more heat than what many CPU's output, and it has to be removed somehow.

Personally i think Nvidia is in for trouble in the near future, They are no longer the unassailable juggernaught they were;

A. Previously it seemed every new product release trampled the competition, GF, GF2, GF3, GF4.
B. GF-FX has been considerably delayed
C. It only significantly outscores the established R9700 in a few benchmarks, despite the 175mhz extra core speed.
D. They have yet to make the jump to 256it ram interface
E. Its hot and loud, and also still very large! By comparison the R9700 looks lean cool and efficient.
F. We have the R350 around the corner
G. Its inherently more expensive to make, with its larger core, cooling requirements, and PCB layers.

Even so nvidia has lots of clout... we shall see how well they can optimise the drivers and cooling solution. Nvidia are traditionally very good with drivers.


<b>My Computer is so powerful Suron Desires it and mortal men Covert it, <i>My Precioussssssss</i></b>
January 27, 2003 10:29:00 PM

I wonder if the retail price will really be 399$

PCB manufacturer cried at DUAL DDR motherboards with their 6 layers... 12 LAYERS !... these things will cost a lot with that pcb complexity and coling... maybe asus or leadtek and whatever will raise price to manufacture those monstaer GF-FX...

well have to wait
January 27, 2003 10:31:57 PM

Well...actually if u look at it from another angle....Even though Tom's praised the FX for its speed ...in comparison to Anandtech's dissapointment with the card.....its Tom's Hardware that actually BLEW THE LID OFF THE FX BY THOSE SOUND LEVEL RECORDINGS....man...those MP3 files are a killer...and they spoke more than a million words...i guess Tom's had to put a little praise in the end of his article...after that exposee....VERY DIPLOMATIC...!!!!
January 27, 2003 11:03:37 PM

Well, I must admit, I am very disappointed with the benchmark results of the GFFX. Noise i could care less about, but I am a little curious about a couple things.

For instance, Toms Hardware benchmarked the GFFX at medium performance/quality settings (view this here [/http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030127/geforce_fx...] or here[/http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030127/geforce_fx...] hopefully 1 of those will work, new to the markup:) )
I wonder if putting it on aggressive would have increased performance much?

The other thing i wondered is if maybe later/better drivers could increase performance significanly?
Most of you have probably read this but read it again (or for the first time:) )... nVidia claims 1337ness[/http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=feature_intellisample] or nVidia claims 1337ness [/http://www.nvidia.com/view.asp?IO=feature_intellisample] (markup thing again:) 

I just dont understand how nVidia would or could claim "Essentially all modes of antialiasing are available at all resolutions without any performance hit. Greatly improved image quality, with no drop in frame rate!"
That is a bold statement! Now i didnt expect it to be TOTALLY free AA, but i figured it would come very close to having no performance loss (ESP. at 4x!!!), if nVidia would claim that.
Maybe nVidias claim is related to an upcoming version of the FX w/a 256bit memory bus, but then that would be pretty mean of them.
Another off the wall idea:
Call me crazy, but what if in the test sample board for whatever reason color compression was not enabled???
w/the cards advertised specs and 16/gb memory bandwidth those benchmarks dont seem too far off. Cause w/48gb/s theoretical max memory bandwidth AA and aniso shouldnt have near the impact that they did. A lot of times things fall short in performance compared to what they are "theoretically" capable of. But from reading about the 4:1 color compression, there really shouldnt even be a "theoretical" about it, it either compresses it at 4:1 or it dosnt, and if it does, then its as if it has 48gb/s bandwidth with no color compression.
But that could all just be wishful thinking on my part.

Maybe I should have used a more temporary method for my "n"
*tries to cover up his "n" out of shame:( 

I dyed my body green, branded an "n" on my chest, and stood on a box in the middle of Time Square for 3 days shouting, "ATI is the Anti-Christ!" to boost sales after nVidia had a losing quarter.
January 27, 2003 11:22:19 PM

I just want to say I'm disappointed with this sites review all together. I mean common, this site's review doesn't hold a candle to how good Anand's site did. What's going on here Tom? You guys normally do such an excellent job bringing the truth to light.

Quote:

"Nevertheless, enthusiasts will, without a doubt, love the GeForceFX 5800 Ultra. It is a monster card!"

Huh? I haven't read about anyone ready to smack down $400 for a card that blows a lot of hot air, pun intended.

Frankly, after reading your review here vs. Anandtech you guys should be re-evaluating how you conduct reviews for graphic cards.

C'mon guys, I like this site a ton, don't start putting out second rate reivews, it's beneath you!
January 27, 2003 11:44:01 PM

That noise thing is a disaster.

I run an XP2100 @ 1846Mhz with a stock cooler and 4x80mm + 1x120mm fans at 5 volts. At the moment, the HSF is making most of the noise and it runs at 43ºC under load (14ºC above case temp). When the I ditch the fan (and possibly the cooler) for a silent/slower one, I should have a reasonably cool and relatively quiet PC.

There is NO WAY that I am going to stick something so noisy in my precious customised case; that thing sounds like my 120mm YS Tech fan at 12 volts(45db)!

(I'm not a hardcare gamer [I recently upgraded to a R9000], so I was never going to get excited about the slight lead that the FX has)
January 28, 2003 12:14:31 AM

THG has a much better sound test of the two cards, it can be heard more clearly how each sounds.

Yes they do have said comments which really sounded like nVidia BEGGING for a few positive comments, as THG tried to refuse.

--
This post is brought to you by Eden, on a Via Eden, in the garden of Eden. :smile:
January 28, 2003 9:59:07 AM

And what about the temp? I mean, what was it, 60-odd C OUTSIDE?! Imagine that in a case with limited cooling and a shed load of PCI cards. It's a fast track to disaster, that's for sure.

And where did they get that fan?! That's no fan, its a propeller from a WWII plane!
January 28, 2003 10:27:46 AM

Quote:
<i>Originally posted by Willamette_Sucks</i>

I dyed my body green, branded an "n" on my chest, and stood on a box in the middle of Time Square for 3 days shouting, "ATI is the Anti-Christ!" to boost sales after nVidia had a losing quarter.

Hey Willamette_Sucks, I wish I saw you in the Square. I would've grabbed an FX, plugged it into a streetlight, pointed it at you, and blew you right off of that box with the thrust of an F15 Fighter Jet. :D 

But seriously, I hope Nvidia gets their act together. Eventhough I loathe the fact that they have 51% of the retail market, and losing some of it so that 3 or 4 companies can share an equal percentage (thereby reducing prices), I'd hate to see them go belly-up. I never go for the "New Kid on the Block" anyway. I rather wait till I actually need the features of a new card before purchasing it, at a lower-than-release-date price.
January 28, 2003 2:08:17 PM

ya i was highly dissapointed with the FX card. Who wants to deal with noise just to gain an extra 20fps? Your system will heat up dramaticly also. You'll probably need a 600watt power supply as well lol! .. ok maybe a 500watt heh.

I wasn't at all impressed with the scores seeing as how the radeon is much slower clocked then the fx and it still was onpar with most benchmarks.

Life is irrelivent and irrational.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/mysystemrig.html?id=9933" target="_new"> My Rig </A>
January 28, 2003 2:16:52 PM

Quote:
Well, I must admit, I am very disappointed with the benchmark results of the GFFX. Noise i could care less about, but I am a little curious about a couple things.

Why don't you care about noise. You should listen to the mpgs in the article. I expect a little noise everytime I add a fan but this FX thing sounds like a vacuum cleaner. It's awful.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 28, 2003 2:37:39 PM

I think the most of us see the 78dba rating as STAY AWAY AND DON'T BUY ME. I don't think nvidia was thinking straight when they were producing this card. I mean nobody in their right mind would put up with 78dba. Besides you will go deaf with this card. Most of the people that buy top of the line cards are enthusiastic gamers. Most gamers also like sound. So when your video card is louder than your speakers, what do you do? Raise the volume on the speakers. You could easily get up to 90dba like that.
January 28, 2003 2:52:54 PM

Quote:

I think the most of us see the 78dba rating as STAY AWAY AND DON'T BUY ME. I don't think nvidia was thinking straight when they were producing this card. I mean nobody in their right mind would put up with 78dba. Besides you will go deaf with this card. Most of the people that buy top of the line cards are enthusiastic gamers. Most gamers also like sound. So when your video card is louder than your speakers, what do you do? Raise the volume on the speakers. You could easily get up to 90dba like that.

At that level, you could literally gradually go deaf.

Another alternative would be to get some high end Dolby Surround headphones with noise cancellation.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.
January 28, 2003 2:56:57 PM

Quote:
You hope. 70 to 75W is still 70 to 75W. That is more heat than what many CPU's output, and it has to be removed somehow.

Actually I don't hope. I have a Radeon 9700 Pro. :smile:

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 28, 2003 3:57:34 PM

I agreed the benchmarks of the gFX isn't as high as I expected. But maybe the card will show a considerable lead over radeon9700 in a DirectX9 environment. Unfortunatly, i guess we will have to wait late this year to see a game that take advantage of DX9.

What really attracted my attention is the size of the card. Man, it is so huge!!! This remind me something, back in the 90'. In a similar thread, 3dFx own the card market with the voodoo brand. Then out of nowhere a new company, nVidia, came in the market with the TnT card (if my memory is right). Soon the TnT beat the voodoo and the 3dfx guys have to defend their position so they came up with the voodoo5, which isn't nothing but a voodoo3 with more clock speed and memory bandwith. At that point, we clearly saw 3dfx cannot compete with nVidia technology but they try to hide that fact by producing a card slightly better than the TnT in the benchmark. Let's point out again that the voodoo5 is a voodoo3 on steroid, with just a few ameliorations, mainly they bousted the cpu and memory. Now look at the gFX card again... The parallel is easy to make : The Radeon9700 is at the TnT what the gFX is at the voodoo5. Well, make your own conclusion.

May the force be with You...
January 28, 2003 4:27:53 PM

paulj, i downloaded the mp3s, and yes that sucker is loud, but i expect nvidia to make at least SOME improvement in the final version.
For a long time i had a dragon orb 3 on my xp1900, that thing had a 7k rpm fan and was very loud.
now i have an slk-800 on my xp2700, and am currently using a case fan on it, but will soon be getting a 5700rpm vantec tornado fan, which is also very loud!
Heres why i dont care about noise (to a certain extent):
at LAN parties the noise is already at a fairly high level;
i have 2 300 watt 4-way KLH floorstanding speakers with 15 inch woofers that are currently hooked up to my computer through a 200 watt amp. I couldnt hear a train crash through our house and go by me at 80 mph!!!!!!!!!!!!

Besides there are some measure you can take to reduce noise, my friend has a dragon orb 3 and was getting tired of the noise so he got a thick towell and glued it to the side panel of his case, it reduced the noise alot!!!
Once i get the vantec (and maybe an FX) im thinking i might do this also.
nVidia should make some games, or at least fund someone to make them for them, using their Cg compiler.
They need to get some games out there quickly that will take advantage of some of the fx's dx9 features, so they can really show off what the card can do.
Has anyone actually seen the fairy demo in person? Or any others? Ive seen screenshots and it looks as if im going to have to borrow dick cheyneys heart starter when i see them.
Im hoping for 3 thing:
1. The GFFX performs better in the final release version due to better drivers or some other minor difference.
2. The final release version isnt quite as loud (not that i wouldnt buy it simply because its loud, im just saying i dont PREFER my components to be loud)
3. Some developers get some DX9 games out there within the year that can really show off what these new cards are capable of. With nVidias Cg compiler, this is possible, the question is will anyone use it.

I dyed my body green, branded an "n" on my chest, and stood on a box in the middle of Time Square for 3 days shouting, "ATI is the Anti-Christ!" to boost sales after nVidia had a losing quarter.
January 28, 2003 4:56:17 PM

most of the dx9 stuff will run as well on the ati. how fast, we'll see then. there are at least yet some quite impressive running demos out, very beautiful, i'm looking for a bright future:D 

about cg: if you use dx9, you don't need cg in any way. hlsl from microsoft is much bether integrated into dx9, is about the same language, and compared to cg much more efficient/stable. cg is still buggy.

simple said: nvidias hw and software is buggy since about half a year. driver problems started to cummulate, new software was fat to download, messy to install, filled the system with stupid stuff, and was buggy as hell.

they currently dont perform well at nvidia, put more money into advertising than into development.

"take a look around" - limp bizkit

www.google.com
January 28, 2003 6:06:55 PM

One article I read indicated that they will make improvements in the noise and the bios. I mainly wanted to see if you understood how noisy it currently is and if so why you thought the noise was acceptable. To most people that isn't acceptable. Having to go to extremes to soundproof a case isn't acceptable to most. Especially when you have the Radeon 9700Pro with comparable performance and much less noise. No matter how you slice it the 9700Pro gives you the performance without the noise. That may change later. We'll have to wait and see. But I see no reason to buy the FX.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 28, 2003 6:19:22 PM

For those of you hoping an improved final version is going to be released, go check out the PNY and BFG card that you can pre-order. It's just like the noisy one reviewed. If they're going to change the FX, it's going to be down the road.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Introducing the NVIDIA GeForceFX: The first Videocard designed exclusively for deaf people!</A></font color=red>
January 28, 2003 6:30:30 PM

I wasn't real sure how to interpret what the article in Tom's Hardware said.
Quote:
When we pointed out the immense noise generated by the card, NVIDIA responded by assigning this to the prototype status of the card. In the final design, the noise level is supposed to be reduced considerably. In its current state, the noise produced by the card is really unbearable. However, the noise is due to the fan, which has a very high rotation speed, and it's difficult to imagine how the noise level could be reduced to a level that could be considered acceptable.

I didn't know if they meant that the retail card would have a different fan with the same wind tunnel or what.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 28, 2003 6:48:32 PM

I don't think so. You can go back all the way to November and see that they were still using that cooling device and thought they were alright. Also, in my thread (stupidest), you'll see that Nvidia thinks that their cooling mechanism is an innovation.

I think they'll have to change it or underclock their, obviously overclocked, card pretty soon though.

<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2002q4/geforce-fx/index...." target="_new">http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2002q4/geforce-fx/index....;/A>

I wish I had read this review back then. I would have upgraded sooner.

<font color=red>
<A HREF="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?dhlucke" target="_new">Introducing the NVIDIA GeForceFX: The first Videocard designed exclusively for deaf people!</A></font color=red>
January 28, 2003 8:43:11 PM

You're probably right, unfortunately.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
January 28, 2003 8:45:26 PM

Yes, that's the funniest thing. They actually think their cooling mechanism is great. It might be doing an excellent job. It just has to remove too much heat.

<font color=red>The solution may be obvious, but I can't see it for the smoke coming off my processor.</font color=red>
!