NVIDIA has a secret weapon

[dhlucke]

Since fanboys like Flamethrower are depending on this, I was curious if anyone could name a company that has ever deployed these kinds of tactics.

The GeForceFX was boasted to be 30% faster than the Radeon 9700 Pro. It was supposed to have 48 GB/Sec of bandwidth. The cooling system was supposed to be innovative.

Nothing panned out.

What's their secret weapon? What basis, or previous examples, are some of you using to make this judgement?

It seems to me that Nvidia made the same mistakes that 3DFX made. It seems to me that their card didn't work out like they wanted so they just overclocked the crap out of it.

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[flamethrower205]

This is just speculation dude. The reason I'm remaining hopeful is this is a drastic measure IF that report is true, and NV must have something up their sleeves if they wanna remain well respected. After discussing it w/ some people in the finance world, they agree NV could pull something like this if they wanted to, and imo, it'd be a damn smart tactic. Right now I'm just hopeful, I know u're all pro Ati down w/ NV, I can see that from your posts and the way you react, so criticize me, but as I had, if that report is true something funky maybe going on.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

 

[dhlucke]

No, I'm just anti GeForceFX 5800. It had no business being released. I don't think they have anything up their sleeves. I think they screwed up.

As I try to replace my age old GeForce2 Pro, I find myself in an interesting situation. A GeForce 4200 was virtually no improvement over my overclocked card, the 4600 is not competitive with the 9700 or 9700 Pro (or even 9500 Pro), and the FX is a failure. I'm trying to figure out what's going on.

What examples did your finance friends give? I'm wondering if there's precedence for this type of marketing technique. People's jobs are at stake here. Taking this type of bad press is not in the company’s best interest no matter what they have up their sleeve. Even if they had a better card on the way, they would have been better off delaying the FX. They're taking a beating in the tech community. I can't wait to see what happens when somebody gets Delled with the vacuum cleaner. I'm going to hang out at Best Buy the day they start selling PC's with these junk cards in them. It should be hilarious.

If this is a marketing tactic, I want to know what drove them to make their decisions.

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[GeneticWeapon]

Grrrr, dont let this get outa hand, I dont want to see this turn into the type of stuff going on over at the Future Marks forums. Besides, you both are well respected here and need to stay in the frame of mind of helping wreck-nitions like myself....not spatting with one another.

If someone with multiple personalities, threatens to commit suicide, is that a hostage situation?..xXZoomInstagibXx

 

[dhlucke]

It's fun to take a position and then run with it. I'm only calling him a fanboy since he admitted it

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[OzzieBloke]

nVidias secret weapon...

Two GeForceFXs, taped together... they plant it in one of ATI's offices, hook it up to a powersupply, and when someone turns on their computer in morning, the small tornado generated wipes out the offices... whoosh! No more ATI, nVidia rules once more.

I need sleep...

-

I plugged my ram into my motherboard, but unplugged it when I smelled cooked mutton.

 

[vegandago]

"pro ati down with nv" ??? dude come on, i mean if you want to hold your own opinion that is fine but please do not disregard my comments with a statement like that. Just because a lot of people are dissapointed with NV doesn't make them ATI fanboys. I mean, what are you supposed to do??? pretend like NV didn't make some retarded card just so you aren't labeled an "ati evangelist"???

"There is no dark or light side, only power and those too weak to seek it."

 

[Sergotha]

So every once in a while someone messes up. I dont perfer ATI over nVidia. But what I do perfer is performance/stability over crap. Now if nVidia pops the GF Fx2 and the FX was just a hoax, ok cool better card is out there time to buy it. If ATI new card dominates and beats the hell out of nVidia then I will go "Ohh cool best card, gotta buy it". But saying anti nVidia or anti ATI because someone makes a mistake??? Now that I think of it I could care less. Have a good day.

I am a puppet, hanging by a thread from the great AMD above. Instead of pulling me up, they are cutting me loose… Where I fall, into the harsh lands where Intel rules with an iron fist.

 

[phsstpok]

I'm guessing that nVidia was simply caught off guard. GeforceFX was supposed to roll out in Oct/Nov 2002. 9700 Pro was released first. Unfortunately, GeforceFX was no match, in its original form, for the 9700 Pro. So nVidia tweaked GeforceFX, overclocked it, possibly adapted it for DDR2, did everyththing they could to get more speed out of it. Maybe it's marginally faster than 9700 Pro, maybe not, but it simply is not enough in any case.

I think nVidia is going to have to take its lumps. Continue production of the Geforce4 line possibly with some tweaks of its own and hopefully stay competitive with ATI's second tier line, the 9500 series. (I'm pretty sure most of the income comes from second tier products anyway). Reduce the clocks of the GeforceFX so it runs cool enough to dump the insane fan. Perhaps a cooler/slower GeforceFX will still compete with the 9700 (non-PRO).

nVidia will just have to bide their time. I believe their customer base will remain large enough until they can release their next product, 10-12 months away. This is assumming nVidia keeps to its typical product cycle. This should give them enough time to do the next product right.

<b>99% is great, unless you are talking about system stability</b><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by phsstpok on 02/06/03 01:24 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[eden]

Flame you are obviously delusional lately, because on top of the denial, you are also putting words into our mouths by stating we are ATI fanboys and down with NV. Who the hell said that, and please POINT me to him. You still me as that yet I own a Ti200. I am starting to get less patient with your assumptions.

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[flamethrower205]

Why do I say that? Because suddenly w/ the release of the FX people say eh, get the 9700 and suddenly cards like the 9500 are beating ti4600's while the <A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20021218/vgacharts-02.html" target="_new">benchmarks</A> say the contrary. I am getting less patient with a lot of the comments too.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

 

[AMD_Man]

Why do I say that? Because suddenly w/ the release of the FX people say eh, get the 9700 and suddenly cards like the 9500 are beating ti4600's while the benchmarks say the contrary. I am getting less patient with a lot of the comments too.

A bunch of old games running without AA or AF don't say much about performance. With AA and AF (which any high-end card owner WILL want to enable) the R9500Pro greatly outdoes the Ti4600.

Intelligence is not merely the wealth of knowledge but the sum of perception, wisdom, and knowledge.

 

[eden]

These comments are as justified as when people saw the Wilamette. Does not make them anti-Intel because they criticized it. Does anyone here really wish for nVidia to die and let monopolistic graphics card business rise?

And in AA and Aniso, the R9500PRO rapes any geForce 4, hope you remember that.
And when a new card fails to deliver, I think it is more than logical to recommend the other competitive one, and in this case I'd recommend thousands of time the R300 over any geForce FX until it gets fixed rightly.

Please don't start sounding like Dark_archonis.

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[dhlucke]

Come on! Pull your head out of the sand. First of all, the benchmarks on this site have been lousy lately, and second of all, we look at AA and AF benchmarks.

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1756&p=9" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1756&p=9</A>

<A HREF="http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1756&p=10" target="_new">http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1756&p=10</A>

Check em out. The 9500 and 4600 are pretty darn close. Actually, sometimes the 9500 Pro spanks the 4600. Yet the 9500 pro is a dx9 card and costs less.

Thanks to an improved driver, new board design with an optimized layout and a full 128MB of memory the card is able to compete with the GeForce4 Ti 4600 instead of being just barely faster than the Ti 4200.

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[vegandago]

Why do I say that? Because suddenly w/ the release of the FX people say eh, get the 9700 and suddenly cards like the 9500 are beating ti4600's while the benchmarks say the contrary. I am getting less patient with a lot of the comments too.

come on man, do we really need to point out the bad logic of this statement? OFCOURSE everybody is saying "go buy a 9700pro" now. Everybody was holding off on their decisions until they saw the FX, and guess what? we've seen the FX and the majority of people are not satisfied with paying an extra $100+ on a card that runs hot, runs obnoxiously loud, and takes up extra space inside their computer. Especially not with the negligible performance gap between the two cards.



"There is no dark or light side, only power and those too weak to seek it."

 

[flamethrower205]

You don't seem to understand my logic. I'm saying that now people r choosing the r9700, and a certain bias is taking over where they say 4600 gets spanked everywhere by the 9500 and such comments. I personally don't bother w/ the aa af benchies much cause I don't use, nor will I ever. In addition, can you look at the pro end of the market and tell me the same? Why is it that the uber 9700 gets beaten by an xg980? Oh yeah, and from what I remember, people were anti-Intel when willie came out. Don't try to deny that.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

 

[dhlucke]

Actually, assuming your hearing is important to you, the Gainward card is the only feasable GeForceFX 5800 Ultra that will be on the market and it is going to cost $700.

That's $400 more than a Radeon 9700 Pro.

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[Spitfire_x86]

It's getting funny, this thread is flame vs. Whole THGC

Don't call me or others arguing with you ATI fanboy, I use a nForce 420-D board w/ IntVideo in use. I used to prefer nVidia over ATI till R9700 Pro/R9500 Pro days.

<b> "You can put lipstick on a pig, but hey, it's still a pig!" - RobD </b>

 

[eden]

Additionally, in the near future, when DirectX 9 games come out, the R9500PRO will likely step ahead in normal performance over the Ti4600. Face it, the R9500PRO COSTS LESS, and WILL LAST in the long run, just as you so tried to convince us with the FX.

And you always go for the Pro segment when we talk about the FX, something not many of us here even care about.
I'd say it's an easy answer regarding the 980GX vs FireXGL, the drivers make the whole difference. Obviously ATi is a newbie in the Pro market, and should not be used anytime soon, until THG can review an updated majorly refined driver serie.

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[flamethrower205]

It's a tough job taking on all of thgc, but the pay's good (in post count that is )

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

 

[flamethrower205]

The reason I refer (partially) to the pro part of the market is that I expect the features of the fx will be used there much more before games. We can then derive from that expected performance in games.

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

 

[eden]

CineFX is not even expected to go in games so far.
Again davepermen has stated it so many times, him being a programmer in graphics, the FX has merely any new features that deserve coding only for it and the end result that it can run so much better programs for its architecture than R300's.

And mind you, we are really discussing desktop usage here, not the PRO market. Wait till someone starts a thread asking for a good PRO card, then go recommend it, with all due respect and truthfulness.

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[Stormfury]

Damn Flamethrower is one loyal nvidia fanboy.What's so hard accepting the fact that the FX blows???

"Please don't start sounding like Dark_archonis."
God please don't don't turn into him!!!!

 

[flamethrower205]

Now where's the fun if we have a monotonous forum? Come on, we need to stir things up

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
- Mario Andretti

 

[RobD]

You've got to admire the guy! Fights his corner to the bitter end!