[KMW Spoiler] Black Annis

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Black Annis
9-Cap Nosferatu Antitribu, Group 4
ani pro OBF POT
Sabbat. Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your
predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an
additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.

Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.

 

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Fabio Sooner Macedo wrote:
> Side note 2: A friend of mine notices that it is the fifth set peview
> in a row that shows up a !Nos, even if the Sabbat is not that given
> set's theme. Kinda curious, isn't it?

Not at all. I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no
impropriety here, and if there was, it was all transacted in cash
anyway, so there's no incriminating paper trail.

So, uh, what's the friend's name? And address? And what route does he
take to work? Just, y'know, asking. No special reason. Oh, and what's
the going rate for a hit man in your country again?

> Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

-John Flournoy
-the sometimes-!Nos-newsletter-writer

 

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I guess that there's no useful discussion to be had over taste (to
roughly translate the latin), but I like it - it fits what I imagine
'a' Black Annis to be. (Annis, pl. Anni, is a mythological creature;
more or less a hag-witch-troll).

Also, only her discipline combination makes her (almost) worth the 9
pool, and even then I'd be loath to use her without fortitude (for
prevention and freak drives). Sure, she can use Flesh of Marble /
Drawing Out the Beast, but aggro-poke is still a problem. At least she
has an answer to Burst of Sunlight and Breath of the Dragon.

Glad she was introduced though, it's an ok vampire for people who like
ani/pot rush.


Regards,

Patrick
Columbus, OH

 

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Fabio "Sooner" Macedo wrote:
> On 3 Feb 2005 09:11:12 -0800, "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Fabio Sooner Macedo wrote:
> >> Side note 2: A friend of mine notices that it is the fifth set
peview
> >> in a row that shows up a !Nos, even if the Sabbat is not that
given
> >> set's theme. Kinda curious, isn't it?
> (eh, I could swear that Teresita was in there... Maybe the next
> expansion should go towards medicine references instead of Viagra
ones
> so I can draw a Phosphorous Pill card or something like that)


Camarilla: Didn't really have standard previews (though Patagia did get
a boost)
Anarchs: Nothing
Black Hand: Yong-Sun (Advanced) preview AND Teresita special preview
Gehenna: Aeron preview AND Shahid preview
KMW: Black Annis preview AND Echo promo card


Seems like the current system of previews didn't start until Anarchs.
And the Nos/!Nos surely have gotten more than their fair share already!
I agree it's rather suspicious...

IIRC, Teresita and Selena were special previews (they were in the
Retailer section or some special web-page). They weren't in the offical
count-down preview, but were previewed even before that.

 

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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Orpheus wrote:

>> Side note: crypt cards like these are what makes me certain that the
>> grouping rule IS necessary indeed.
>
> Funny. That's the kind of cards that make me think exactly the opposite.
> Kinda like : what do we need a new group for (four) if it just duplicates
> existing things with slight variations ?!

We don't. We don't need anything beyond Jyhad to have a great game.

I like having new expansions and new vampires and all that. If grouping
is necessary to have new vampires all the time, then I'll take grouping.

Matt Morgan

 

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On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, jnewquist@difsol.com wrote:

>Black Annis
>9-Cap Nosferatu Antitribu, Group 4
>ani pro OBF POT
>Sabbat. Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your
>predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an
>additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.
>
>Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
>but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.

In case someone didn't notice, even rush actions provided by other
means - Bum's Rush, Haven Uncovered, Blooding + Shakar, whatever - do
cost a blood also.
That's how I understand "Other non-hunt actions".

This restriction might prove more painful in practice than in theory,
and I don't mind her being somewhat similar to Beast - now we can
choose more restrictions/[cel]/no stealth/7-cap or less
restrictions/[pro]/+1 stealth/9-cap. That's fine. There's only so much
you can do with a given set of options.

Side note: crypt cards like these are what makes me certain that the
grouping rule IS necessary indeed.

Side note 2: A friend of mine notices that it is the fifth set peview
in a row that shows up a !Nos, even if the Sabbat is not that given
set's theme. Kinda curious, isn't it?

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:EKN National Coordinator for Brazil
--------------------------------------
Now a "luminary", whatever it means:
http://www.thelasombra.com/WhosWho/fabiomacedo.htm

 

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"Fabio \"Sooner\" Macedo" <fabio@cohesp.com.br> wrote:
> On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, jnewquist@difsol.com wrote:

>>Black Annis
>>9-Cap Nosferatu Antitribu, Group 4
>>ani pro OBF POT
>>Sabbat. Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your
>>predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an
>>additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.
>>
>>Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
>>but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.

> In case someone didn't notice, even rush actions provided by other
> means - Bum's Rush, Haven Uncovered, Blooding + Shakar, whatever - do
> cost a blood also.
> That's how I understand "Other non-hunt actions".

Nothing that Perfectionist can't patch...

 

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On 3 Feb 2005 09:11:12 -0800, "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Fabio Sooner Macedo wrote:
>> Side note 2: A friend of mine notices that it is the fifth set peview
>> in a row that shows up a !Nos, even if the Sabbat is not that given
>> set's theme. Kinda curious, isn't it?
>
>Not at all. I have no idea what you're talking about. There's no
>impropriety here, and if there was, it was all transacted in cash
>anyway, so there's no incriminating paper trail.

Ah, ok.
Well... But let me pay you a beer. Here it is.

[2 hours later and a big row of empty bottles/cans of ale]

But now, maaate [hic] just between you and me: you DID arranged for
the removal of a !Nos from the Anarchs preview just to cover for the
noticeable pattern, don't you?

(eh, I could swear that Teresita was in there... Maybe the next
expansion should go towards medicine references instead of Viagra ones
so I can draw a Phosphorous Pill card or something like that)


>So, uh, what's the friend's name? And address? And what route does he
>take to work? Just, y'know, asking. No special reason. Oh, and what's
>the going rate for a hit man in your country again?
>
>> Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
>
>-John Flournoy
>-the sometimes-!Nos-newsletter-writer

Don't ask, you'd be tempted

Or your hit man would, by the way; your target... *cough*, my friend
understands too well about those Temptation feelings.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:EKN National Coordinator for Brazil
--------------------------------------
Now a "luminary", whatever it means:
http://www.thelasombra.com/WhosWho/fabiomacedo.htm

 

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On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, <jnewquist@difsol.com> wrote:

> Black Annis
> 9-Cap Nosferatu Antitribu, Group 4
> ani pro OBF POT
> Sabbat. Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your
> predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an
> additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.
>
> Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
> but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.

I don't like her. Why did we need another take on Beast? I'm sure lots
of stuff are there to be explored (for example, I haven't seen any
chainmail bikinis yet).

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:29:13 -0600, Jozxyqk <jfeuerst@eecs.tufts.edu>
wrote:

>"Fabio \"Sooner\" Macedo" <fabio@cohesp.com.br> wrote:
>> On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, jnewquist@difsol.com wrote:
>
>>>Black Annis
>>>9-Cap Nosferatu Antitribu, Group 4
>>>ani pro OBF POT
>>>Sabbat. Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your
>>>predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an
>>>additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.
>>>
>>>Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
>>>but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.
>
>> In case someone didn't notice, even rush actions provided by other
>> means - Bum's Rush, Haven Uncovered, Blooding + Shakar, whatever - do
>> cost a blood also.
>> That's how I understand "Other non-hunt actions".
>
>Nothing that Perfectionist can't patch...

Is there something that Perfectionist can't patch?

(just to do a little overrating praise)

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:EKN National Coordinator for Brazil
--------------------------------------
Now a "luminary", whatever it means:
http://www.thelasombra.com/WhosWho/fabiomacedo.htm

 

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On 3 Feb 2005 10:19:45 -0800, echiang777@yahoo.com wrote:
>Fabio "Sooner" Macedo wrote:
>> On 3 Feb 2005 09:11:12 -0800, "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Fabio Sooner Macedo wrote:
>> >> Side note 2: A friend of mine notices that it is the fifth set
>peview
>> >> in a row that shows up a !Nos, even if the Sabbat is not that
>given
>> >> set's theme. Kinda curious, isn't it?
>> (eh, I could swear that Teresita was in there... Maybe the next
>> expansion should go towards medicine references instead of Viagra
>ones
>> so I can draw a Phosphorous Pill card or something like that)
>
>Camarilla: Didn't really have standard previews (though Patagia did get
>a boost)
>Anarchs: Nothing
>Black Hand: Yong-Sun (Advanced) preview AND Teresita special preview
>Gehenna: Aeron preview AND Shahid preview
>KMW: Black Annis preview AND Echo promo card
>
>
>Seems like the current system of previews didn't start until Anarchs.
>And the Nos/!Nos surely have gotten more than their fair share already!
>I agree it's rather suspicious...

Time for rampant conspirational theories!


>IIRC, Teresita and Selena were special previews (they were in the
>Retailer section or some special web-page). They weren't in the offical
>count-down preview, but were previewed even before that.

Right. At least Teresita was there before, my mind just filed it under
another section.

But back to the more "serious" issues. Maybe noticing this was just a
consequence of bad divination skills - I was sure that the three
vampires to show after Ossian were to be a !Gangrel, a Giovanni and
the TBA one, for whatever reason it is TBA. It would round everything
well: one vampire for each indie clan and for each starter (if Tatiana
- Alastor, Kemintiri - Red List starters respectively)

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:EKN National Coordinator for Brazil
--------------------------------------
Now a "luminary", whatever it means:
http://www.thelasombra.com/WhosWho/fabiomacedo.htm

 

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Daneel <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote:
: On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, <jnewquist@difsol.com> wrote:
: I don't like her. Why did we need another take on Beast? I'm sure lots
: of stuff are there to be explored (for example, I haven't seen any
: chainmail bikinis yet).

"What do we need group 4 for?" - "Look, there's a big Beast there, too"

//T

 

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Daneel <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote:
: On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, <jnewquist@difsol.com> wrote:
:> Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
:> but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.
: I don't like her. Why did we need another take on Beast? I'm sure lots
: of stuff are there to be explored (for example, I haven't seen any
: chainmail bikinis yet).

Now I got to take a look at her. Horrible picture. Otherwise it's 2 pool
over Beast, a lot less imaginative power discipline no-brainer
combination of Protean and Potence and ability to use equipment and
recycle unnecessary rush actions from your hand, also for an extra
maneuvers or presses - at stealth.

Still, the picture.. Between the very nice art work of the Beast and
say, passable art work of Mateusz, the picture on Annis looks like
nothing that'd justify the mean specialties.

//T

 

[orpheus]

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> Side note: crypt cards like these are what makes me certain that the
> grouping rule IS necessary indeed.

Funny. That's the kind of cards that make me think exactly the opposite.
Kinda like : what do we need a new group for (four) if it just duplicates
existing things with slight variations ?!
--
Orpheus

--------------------------------
"Zane, Zane, Zane / Lalala Fashion Bip Bip / Oh ! By Jingo"

David Bowie, greatest rock lyricist of all times

 

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"Jozxyqk" <jfeuerst@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote in message
news:O8-dnR7qpsT0wp_fRVn-tQ@comcast.com...
> "Fabio \"Sooner\" Macedo" <fabio@cohesp.com.br> wrote:
> > On 3 Feb 2005 07:21:59 -0800, jnewquist@difsol.com wrote:
>
> >>Black Annis
> >>9-Cap Nosferatu Antitribu, Group 4
> >>ani pro OBF POT
> >>Sabbat. Black Annis can enter combat with any minion controlled by your
> >>predator or prey as a (D) action. Other non-hunt actions cost her an
> >>additional blood. +1 strength. +1 stealth.
> >>
> >>Interesting... a bigger Beast with +1 stealth, and fewer restrictions,
> >>but even a basic bleed costs her a blood.
>
> > In case someone didn't notice, even rush actions provided by other
> > means - Bum's Rush, Haven Uncovered, Blooding + Shakar, whatever - do
> > cost a blood also.
> > That's how I understand "Other non-hunt actions".
>
> Nothing that Perfectionist can't patch...
>
(indeed, given the useful perm +1 stealth)

or taste of vitae...


George

 

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"Matthew T. Morgan" <farquar@io.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
20050203124429.N72094@fnord.io.com...
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Orpheus wrote:
>
> >> Side note: crypt cards like these are what makes me certain that the
> >> grouping rule IS necessary indeed.
> >
> > Funny. That's the kind of cards that make me think exactly the opposite.
> > Kinda like : what do we need a new group for (four) if it just
duplicates
> > existing things with slight variations ?!
>
> We don't. We don't need anything beyond Jyhad to have a great game.
>
> I like having new expansions and new vampires and all that.

Sure. And this could be done by creating really new vampires, with new
discipline combos and / or abilities, that would allow for new strategies.
Thousands of things haven't been done yet, and would be preferable to more
Pot/Ani/Pro, !Ventrue OBT, etc etc.

If grouping
> is necessary to have new vampires all the time, then I'll take grouping.
>
> Matt Morgan

It is now far too late to change anything, but I still believe it wasn't
necessary, at least not at this point.
--
Orpheus

--------------------------------
"Zane, Zane, Zane / Lalala Fashion Bip Bip / Oh ! By Jingo"

David Bowie, greatest rock lyricist of all times

 

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Orpheus <orpheus.13@eraserheadfree.fr> wrote:
: It is now far too late to change anything, but I still believe it wasn't
: necessary, at least not at this point.

Well. If they are to revise the grouping rule, I'd very much like to see
a rule that would allow enough backwards compatibility to allow using
ol' Jyhad Vampires with the newest Group 4 Vampires. Can't wait.

//T

 

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Getting back to Black Annis:

She is obviously a combat oriented character. However, her drawback is
fairly severe, especially context with her capacity.

With this in mind, she is slightly under powered in my opinion due that
she doesn't have animalism at superior. Animalism has proven itself a
devastating combat discipline in the NYC circle in conjunction with the
Nos/!Nos. We have a player named Corey who has a highly effective
tournament winning !Nos deck using Combat with Superior Potence and
Superior Animalism. This is due to environmental damage from Carrion
Crows and Drawing out the Beast.

Since the design has geared her so much towards combat, it would have
been optimal for her to have superior animalism rather then obfuscate.
In my opinion, this would still have made her balanced. She's still a
great fighter, but I believe ultimately that environmental damage along
with Trap is a more effective way with dealing damage prevention then
her Protean offers.

Still an effective minion. Especially when you couple the other
!Nosferatu that has +2 strength.

Eldacar

 

[orpheus]

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"Teemu T Vilen" <tvilen@cc.helsinki.fi> a écrit dans le message de news:
cttvb1$nu6$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> Orpheus <orpheus.13@eraserheadfree.fr> wrote:
> : It is now far too late to change anything, but I still believe it wasn't
> : necessary, at least not at this point.
>
> Well. If they are to revise the grouping rule, I'd very much like to see
> a rule that would allow enough backwards compatibility to allow using
> ol' Jyhad Vampires with the newest Group 4 Vampires. Can't wait.

TBA : New ???

 

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Orpheus <orpheus.13@eraserheadfree.fr> wrote:
: "Teemu T Vilen" <tvilen@cc.helsinki.fi> a écrit dans le message de news:
: cttvb1$nu6$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
:> Well. If they are to revise the grouping rule, I'd very much like to see
:> a rule that would allow enough backwards compatibility to allow using
:> ol' Jyhad Vampires with the newest Group 4 Vampires. Can't wait.
: TBA : New ???

Certainly hope so.

//T

 

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Eldacar351 <eldacar351@aol.com> wrote:
> Getting back to Black Annis:
>
> She is obviously a combat oriented character. However, her drawback is
> fairly severe, especially context with her capacity.

Drawback? You're looking at it the wrong way. She pays one blood for
+1 stealth (even when it is not yet needed), but she doesn't actually
have the choice to pay or not.

Rogar

 

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On Fri, 4 Feb 2005, Daneel wrote:

> I disagree. When the designers have reached the limits of their
> creativity it is time to stop designing. I'm not talking about "whoa,
> this vampire has built in rush, and not something that takes five
> lines to phrase, this is lame", I'm talking about "wow, a bigger beast
> clone". If Group 4 is really just Group 2 reshuffled, then did we
> really need it? I'm not against the grouping rule in theory, but I'm
> not ecstatic about what I've seen from group 4 so far.

Black Annis doesn't bother me. She's different enough from Beast for my
tastes. Actually, I love all the +strength !Nosferatu. Can't be sad
about another.

But what really gets under my skin is yet *another* Camarilla Ravnos with
PRE. I mean, how many of those do we have in g2? It's basically the
theme of the group and now we're going to get another for g4? You're
right. Nothing left to design.

But what if there was nothing left to whine about?

Matt Morgan

 

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> If Group 4 is really just Group 2 reshuffled, then did we
> really need it? I'm not against the grouping rule in theory, but I'm
> not ecstatic about what I've seen from group 4 so far.
>

Haven't you ever looked at a vampire and said "Man, if only he had [insert
discipline here]!"? That's what Grouping is all about! The merits of
Vampire A versus Vampire A' can only be explored if you can't use them at
the same time because of Play Balance. The only alternative to grouping is
making all new vampires Advanced versions of exisiting vampires, and then
CE would have been 99% reprints instead of 72%.

Group 3 didn't look all that impressive when you only had 35 vampires
(that would be after opening all the starters and about 10 booster packs).

 

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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:40:18 +0100, "Orpheus"
<orpheus.13@ERASERHEADfree.fr> wrote:

>> Side note: crypt cards like these are what makes me certain that the
>> grouping rule IS necessary indeed.
>
>Funny. That's the kind of cards that make me think exactly the opposite.
>Kinda like : what do we need a new group for (four) if it just duplicates
>existing things with slight variations ?!

Because it's inevitable.

In short, grouping allows both approaches: printing altered versions
of older vampires, and trying something different. Both are valid and
necessary.

There are limits to creativity within a given set of guidelines when
designing a card. No matter how much we want to see new specials and
such, it is impossible to print EVERY vampire with something different
without completely screwing up the power curve at some point.
And we must account to the fact that new vampires should have some
sinergy with existing cards also. It leads to keep printing new
vampires who can benefit the most from, say, POT combat. This in turn
will lead to what? Built-in rush actions, of course.

Since you can't avoid making a vampire with a special rush action here
and there - remember, there are five sets and at least 6 years between
the original release of Beast and this new Black Annis - and it's
necessary to avoid the dial-a-crypt syndrome, go grouping.

I've already posted something on this thread about Black Annis having
significant differences from Beast, [pro] being a HUGE one (access to
prevention, anyone?), so I won't dabble in it again. Go figure,
necrobrother!

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:EKN National Coordinator for Brazil
--------------------------------------
Now a "luminary", whatever it means:
http://www.thelasombra.com/WhosWho/fabiomacedo.htm

 

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i don´t think designers reached said point yet. one vampire out of 5
is a "g4 clone" (i don´t agree with this either). i agree it´s not
the best ratio of novelty, but hey, how many vamps are we getting in
the set? i don´t know, but already 37 are in the preview list, and
we´re only in malkavian!!!!

let´s see:
tatiana has a quite different special, making her effectively - if you
leave consanguineous boon and the summoning issue out - a vampire with
three clans.

kemintiri adv is nice as well, getting votes (well, jan did that too,
but you needed to have someone playing gehenna events for that) and
making up for the lame special of her base version - and keeping her
faithful to her vtm story - by making use of everything ventrue (or
almost).

then we have the awesome - imho - maureen. first of all, a titled
baali, something we lacked in bloodlines. and one that makes up for her
infernal cost, if need be?? okay, i know saqqaf has a somewhat similar
special, but i don´t see maureen as a clone of him.

the gunbunny for the assamites, michael has a new approach at the set
distance special, unlike the one you get from the sniper rifle and
clearly different from cailean´s one....

black annis, then, is somewhat related to beast, but probably it´s
´cause they´re both from the same clan, and both have a heavier hand.
but then, you have a difference in which you can only go spanking your
prey´s and predator´s minions (and i´ve seen beast putting a
cross-table good use for his special). also, she doesn´t seem to be as
good an anarch as beast is, and so on....