The end of AGP SLOT is near

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JimStapleton

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given the horrid results of the first product in a new line that ATI or Intel has put out, I doubt PCI Express will be good untill the secon revision, so don't hold your breath...

example
intel:
first series of P4 = crap
first series of 64 bit processors = worse crap

ATi:
first series of 3D cards = Rage = What they cause you to have = crap
first series of Radeons = crap
drivers = unweildly crap (probably the reason for the first two, as, at least the Radeons, have always had much higher theoretical yeilds out of there hardware than most GeForces that outproduce them).


so, I wouldn't hold your breath on PCI express being that great

Athlon XP 1600+, MSI K7T PRO2 RU (POS), 2x256 MB CRUCIAL PC2100 CL2.5 memory, Asus V6800 DDR Delux (GF 256) video card, 6.4GB+27GB WD HD, 40GB IBM HD (all 7200RPM). My computer is an acronym
 
eden

eden

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What the heck's that gotta do with hardware bugs!
Dude, PCI-Express is a SLOT, it is simply for the hardware to be inserted.
There is no revision to be done on that, only updates in transfer speeds like AGP. You're not making sense any other way, it'd be up to ATi or nVidia to make a card be compatible and stable with PCI-X, which should not be hard, but there is NO bug to come with a slot usually unless they wrongly built it at the motherboard factory, in which in that case it'd be the mobo maker's fault.

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JimStapleton

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does it use the same number of pins? the same controllers?

If so, then sure, there will be no problem, but aren't the pins different.

We'll see when it comes out, but I suspect it'll have major bugs.

Athlon XP 1600+, MSI K7T PRO2 RU (POS), 2x256 MB CRUCIAL PC2100 CL2.5 memory, Asus V6800 DDR Delux (GF 256) video card, 6.4GB+27GB WD HD, 40GB IBM HD (all 7200RPM). My computer is an acronym
 
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edurm

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hey jimstapleton you are been so pessimist, about 5 years (+ or -) ago I bought one of the first mobo with AGP and that worked 100% perfect, pci-express will rock for sure
 
eden

eden

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The controllers are up to the chipset manus, once again it is not the standard and its architecture which will be buggy, if there are bugs.

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Crashman

Crashman

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This is very old snooze, I've been telling people this for around a year now. In fact, I started mentioning it more frequently at the intro of AGP8x, saying things like "by the time AGP8x really matters, it will already be outdated". And I had to get my facts from somewhere, so you can rest assured that this information has been around for well over a year.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
Crashman

Crashman

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What's this about ATI?

1.) The Rage? Sure it was crap. Look what it was up against...the S3 Virge series mainly! All video cards were crap back then. Considering the state of graphics, it actually looked GOOD in it's day.
2.) I OWN a Radeon! And it's not even a Radeon DDR, it's an LE modified to full version DDR card specs. It plays NFS-HP2 at 3/4 detail and 1280x1024 very smoothly.
3.) Drivers, well, let's not forget that nVidia releases drivers every week or so, and that 2/3 of those are crap too.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
Crashman

Crashman

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My take on PCI-X? It will rock. Why do I say that? Right now we have too many different kinds of slots, it will be nice to have 1 type do everything. But considering it's supposed to undergo several revisions...why don't they simply come out with a super fast one in the first place?

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
eden

eden

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Well my other question would be, even if PCI-X can house extremly high bandwidth of the AGP caliber, where exactly will it be beneficial aside from a uniform slot architecture for all cards, if current cards can't even extract 1% off AGP 8x?

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Crashman

Crashman

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Imagine if you wanted to put an Ultra 160 SCSI card in your current system. You'd know it was limitted to 133MB/s by the PCI slot. What advantage would an Ultra 320 card give you then? None. These cards are normally designed for 64-bit PCI slots, 66MHz PCI, or 64/66 PCI. Ouch, time to get a server board!

Having one slot standard does away with that issue.

Say you want to span your game across 6 monitors using 3 graphics cards. You can't do that at reasonable resolutions today, PCI doesn't have enough bandwidth. But 3 PCI-X cards should easily be able to as long as the software works right.

Or look at the Gateway Essential PC. Very common "Flex ATX" system which is actually 1 slot shorter than mATX (the other missing slot is the first one, giving you two slots in the space for 3). You can't do much with these things as far as graphics goes. If they had PCI-X slots, they would make IDEAL set top boxes! The problem of upgrading a board that isn't designed for graphics add on cards is therefor solved!

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
eden

eden

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So there could be a potential of combined graphics card power, aside from a standard for all cards?
That would be nice, on R300s!

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Crashman

Crashman

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Well, I don't know about using multiple cards for one monitor, but spanning the image in high resolution across several monitors is completely within reason. We can already do this at low performance levels with standard PCI, anything as fast as AGP would be a significant improvement in this area.

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
eden

eden

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No I meant simply combined GPU power, for an extremly higher level of performance.


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Crashman

Crashman

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PCI-X is supposed to replace both ALL AGP and PCI slots. I've read about various "levels" of PCI-X, but any company who wished could use a higher level slot for multiple slots. Yes, the power interface would be a bit difficult, but not impossible. And Matrox's card only supports 3 monitors, you need at least 5 for decent forward and side views. Imagine playing a racing game where you can see people pull up beside you just like in real life out the side windows?

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
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edurm

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ok, thaks for the explanation crashman,

PS - maybe in five years we'll be able to play such a wonderfull thing, playing a racing game with 5 monitors, I would sell my car just to buy such a thing :)
 
R

rcf84

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PCI Express will replace it all. It gives Power hungry Video cards 60w of power. PCI express is intels way of picking a good standard kinda like PCI and AGP. Aslo PCI-Express x16 works at 4gb's giving 2x the bandwith of 4x agp.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=8000

Note:
PCI-x will go the way of the MCA and EISA slot. PCI-x and PCI Express are totally different.

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TheGreatGrapeApe

TheGreatGrapeApe

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Crash, yeah the Dual AMD Asus board I have here (A7M-266), has 2 64/66 slots, however I was a little dissappointed to find that THAT is NOT PCI-X, it is PCI-plus. PCI-X officially starts at 64/133mhz. I just hope that the new technology will support the PCI-plus as well. The only things I can slot in it now are Gigabit+ ethernet (optical even), or as you said a SCSI drive but the first is impractical as it is only hooked up to DSL and doesn't file share, and the Second is too expensive for a home system limited by DDR 266.
Anyho, PCI-X didn't fall out of the sky it's been SLOW in development and WILL rock. What I would like to get my hands on is that PCI-X Radeon 9700 they used at the Intel Dev. Conf. Then I could run DUAL 9700's (one AIW, one FireGL) on one system.

Now that's what I want it for, flexibility across the board. Triple monitors all running FireGLs. Umm Firery, Toasty, and the need for a 1KWatt power supply! :eek:

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <font color=red>RED</font color=red> <font color=green>GREEN</font color=green> :tongue: GA to SK
 
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Skipper007

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"Say you want to span your game across 6 monitors using 3 graphics cards. You can't do that at reasonable resolutions today, PCI doesn't have enough bandwidth. But 3 PCI-X cards should easily be able to as long as the software works right."

I wouldn't want six monitors because that would split the center, but if it was five or seven monitors...

Droooooool...........
 
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rcf84

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PCI-X didn't fall out of the sky it's been SLOW in development and WILL rock. What I would like to get my hands on is that PCI-X Radeon 9700 they used at the Intel Dev. Conf. Then I could run DUAL 9700's (one AIW, one FireGL) on one system.
Click to expand...
The 9700 was using a PCI-Express x16 not PCI-x. Also you can't mix FireGL and 9700aiw. Thats like running an duron 800 and a MP2200+ together in a SMP Box

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Crashman

Crashman

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Wait, so PCI-X is different from PCI-Express, and it's PCI-Express that has different "levels". OH gawd, here we go with another slot war, I still have [-peep-] left over from the last one.

Anyway, which one belongs to 3GIO?

<font color=blue>Watts mean squat if you don't have quality!</font color=blue>
 
TheGreatGrapeApe

TheGreatGrapeApe

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PCI-express is PCI-X, or at least that's what I've always read. 3GIO (intel's name) has always confused the mater a bit, however the PCI-X in this case does mean PCI-Express. It's probably fitted for the 64/133 slot, but would probably work in our 64/66 slot. And that would be sweet.

And YES I would be able to mix the AIW and FIREGL, you can't now because they would share the same slot (AGP PRO50), however if the AIW 9700 ran on PCI-X then I could run a FIREGL X1 (256mb) in the AGP-p50 and the AIW in the PCI-X.
Which for ME would be the ultimate answer to my questions. Video capture, plus the BEST animation card for MY money (until i see the Quadro FX)
Anywhoo, that's just my pipe dream, which will take 2 years to see.

But that would be playing God! God, Schmod, I want my Monkey Man! - Bart Simpson

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <font color=red>RED</font color=red> <font color=green>GREEN</font color=green> :tongue: GA to SK
 
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juin

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Litlle explaination on PCI-Express

It run at a max of 2.5 GHZ second version will run at 5 GHZ (sync with CPU or was going to be use on RDRAM interface) it serial so each data will have to go to a serialiser and a deserialiser that increase lantency and add Die size on chipset.

PCI express is point to point suppost bi direction and many bit size.

AGP replacement will be 4 GBS download and 4 GBS upload and at a much hihger frenquecy that the plain old 66 mghz of AGP.

It reduce the number of pin across all platfrom but extra developement must be made on mothersboards so at frist the price will be high be can be lower that actual boards with time.

Personaly 3GIO was made in mind that RDRAM will be in all systemes so serialiser and deserialier was allready use (wich count for a good part of RDRAM lantecy).

WIf we got the choice 1 day bettween Redwood and HT 3GIO.HT or redwood are the best choice but intl will win this battle so.

Just next to the lab and the bunker you will find the marketing departement.
 
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