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[Feat] Weapon Handling

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Anonymous
August 27, 2005 7:38:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering threads.
Comments and suggestions are welcome.

WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
You handle weapons with ease.

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Quick Draw.

Benefit: You can pick up or sheathe a weapon as a free action instead of
as a move action. Doing so does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Normal: Without this feat, you may pick up or sheathe a weapon as a move
action, and doing so provokes an attack of opportunity.

Special: A fighter may select Weapon Handling as one of his fighter
bonus feats.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd

More about : feat weapon handling

Anonymous
August 27, 2005 9:42:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:
> Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering threads.
> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>
> WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
> You handle weapons with ease.
>
> Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Quick Draw.
>
> Benefit: You can pick up or sheathe a weapon as a free action instead of
> as a move action. Doing so does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
>
> Normal: Without this feat, you may pick up or sheathe a weapon as a move
> action, and doing so provokes an attack of opportunity.
>
> Special: A fighter may select Weapon Handling as one of his fighter
> bonus feats.


This seems appropriate. *snaffle*


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
August 27, 2005 11:05:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering
> threads. Comments and suggestions are welcome.

<snip>

After careful consideration, I regret to inform you that you are a
stupid cunt.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 12:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Max Danife wrote:
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> > Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering
> > threads. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>
> <snip>
>
> After careful consideration, I regret to inform you that you are a
> stupid cunt.

?

I know you are but what am I?

??

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; that seemed even more random than
usual . . .
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:13:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <slrndh1282.emt.bradd+news@szonye.com>, bradd+news@szonye.com
says...

> Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering threads.
> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>
> WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
> You handle weapons with ease.
>
> Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Quick Draw.
>
> Benefit: You can pick up or sheathe a weapon as a free action instead of
> as a move action. Doing so does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
>
> Normal: Without this feat, you may pick up or sheathe a weapon as a move
> action, and doing so provokes an attack of opportunity.
>
> Special: A fighter may select Weapon Handling as one of his fighter
> bonus feats.

Does "pick up" here mean "pick up from the ground"? If so, it's probably
okay (perhaps a bit on the weak side...?)


--
Jasin Zujovic
jzujovic@inet.hr
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:13:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd wrote:
>> Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering threads.
>> Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
>> You handle weapons with ease.
>>
>> Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Quick Draw.
>>
>> Benefit: You can pick up or sheathe a weapon as a free action instead of
>> as a move action. Doing so does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
>>
>> Normal: Without this feat, you may pick up or sheathe a weapon as a move
>> action, and doing so provokes an attack of opportunity.
>>
>> Special: A fighter may select Weapon Handling as one of his fighter
>> bonus feats.

Jasin Zujovic wrote:
> Does "pick up" here mean "pick up from the ground"?

Yes. By the way, do you know whether the "pick up item" action lets you
pick up anything within your reach, or only in your own square? I seem
to remember that the item must be in your square, but I can't find a
rule on it. If my memory is correct, then the feat should also let you
pick up anything within your reach.

> If so, it's probably okay (perhaps a bit on the weak side...?)

I think it certainly passes the "would everyone take it" test, but I'm
not sure about "would anyone take it." As somebody who plays a double-
threat ranger (i.e., one who readily switches between archery and a two-
handed weapon), it's very tempting, but I'm still not sure whether it's
worth a feat to me. Any suggestions for beefing it up without making it
too good?
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:25:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye wrote:

> I think it certainly passes the "would everyone take it" test, but I'm
> not sure about "would anyone take it." As somebody who plays a double-
> threat ranger (i.e., one who readily switches between archery and a
> two- handed weapon), it's very tempting, but I'm still not sure
> whether it's worth a feat to me. Any suggestions for beefing it up
> without making it too good?

How about having it also eliminate the AoO for retrieving a stored item?
Though this would diminish one of the selling points of the Handy Haversack
slightly.

--
Mark.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:25:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote:
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>> I think it certainly passes the "would everyone take it" test, but I'm
>> not sure about "would anyone take it." As somebody who plays a double-
>> threat ranger (i.e., one who readily switches between archery and a
>> two- handed weapon), it's very tempting, but I'm still not sure
>> whether it's worth a feat to me. Any suggestions for beefing it up
>> without making it too good?
>
> How about having it also eliminate the AoO for retrieving a stored item?
> Though this would diminish one of the selling points of the Handy Haversack
> slightly.

That's not a bad idea. It should also cap the action cost for retrieving
a stored item at a move action, just like drawing a concealed weapon
with Quick Draw. (By the way, I wouldn't limit it to unpacking actual
weapons, since some "weapons" are actually ammunition, wands, scrolls,
etc.) Good idea, people?
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 6:22:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
> > > >
> > > > WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
> > > > You handle weapons with ease.
> > > >
> > > > Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +1, Quick Draw.
> > > >
> > > > Benefit: You can pick up or sheathe a weapon as a
> > > > free action instead of as a move action. Doing so
> > > > does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
> > > >
> > > > Normal: Without this feat, you may pick up or
> > > > sheathe a weapon as a move action, and doing so
> > > > provokes an attack of opportunity.
> > > >
> > > > Special: A fighter may select Weapon Handling as
> > > > one of his fighter bonus feats.
>
> Balance-wise I don't have a problem with it. The
> *potential* problems would be, I think, so infrequent
> that they don't affect much overall.

And I think that this might mean that the feat would fail the
"would anyone take it" test. Keith and I were talking in IM,
and he suggested that I could always post my idea.

Basically, I've always had a slight problem with Quick Draw,
and its lack of realism... And its restriction to drawing
weapons only... At least the last of which I'm sure you
both agree with, or the feat above wouldn't have been written
or discussed.

So, here's my re-write of Quick Draw (but using your much
nicer feat name and flavor text, Bradd) that incorporates
some of your ideas above, and some of what I've already
*been* doing IMC:

WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
You handle weapons with ease.

Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.

Benefit: As a swift action, you may sheathe or draw a
single weapon. If you have Two-Weapon Fighting, you
may perform two such actions (draw two weapons,
sheathe two weapons, sheathe one and draw another,
draw one and sheathe another) simultaneously.

As a swift action, you may pick up a single weapon
or other handheld object from your square.

You may draw and throw weapons at your full iterative
attack rate.

You may draw a hidden weapon as a move action.

Normal: Without this feat, drawing a weapon, sheathing
a weapon, or picking up a handheld object from your
square is a move action (or, if your base attack bonus
is +1 or higher, drawing a weapon as part of movement
is a free action). Without this feat, you can draw a
hidden weapon as a standard action.

Special: A fighter may select Weapon Handling as
one of his fighter bonus feats.

Note on my reason for the TWF exception: The training
involved in the Two-Weapon Fighting feat permits enough
synchronization of your movements to permit the
combinations listed.

--
Nik, posting annoyedly from Google because TeraNews
hates me
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:03:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden wrote:
> Keith Davies wrote:
>
> > Hmm... ISTR a feat called something like 'Takeaway'. IIRC it had a
> > prereq of Improved Disarm and a successful disarm meant that you could
> > grab the weapon yourself and use it, rather than dropping it at his
> > feet. As written, Weapon Handling would allow you to disarm, sheathe
> > your weapon, grab his, and continue beating on him... that round.
>
> I'd consider that one of the more attractive aspects of the feat, certainly.
> It lets you effectively replicate the sort of move you see in movies'
> swashbuckling swordfights, where the superior fighter flips the sword out of
> his opponent's hand, then catches it himself.
>
> But here's a weirder application:
> Wield your heavily-enchanted, expensive light weapon in your on hand, and a
> plain dagger in your off hand. After you finish your primary attack
> sequence, quick-sheath both weapons, then quick-draw them with the dagger in
> your on hand and the heavily-enchanted weapon in your off hand, and make
> your off hand attack(s). Two-weapon-fighting with half the expense.

Heh, cool!

I had actually considered a feat (prereq: Ambidexterity) where you
could switch a light weapon from one hand to another with such ease and
speed that you could consider it being in _both_ hands, and could use
two-weapon fighting with it.

Laszlo
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 7:35:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Max Danife <max@underground.net> wrote:
> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>> Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering
>> threads. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>
> <snip>
>
> After careful consideration, I regret to inform you that you are a
> stupid cunt.

WTF?
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 9:08:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:
> Max Danife <max@underground.net> wrote:
>> Bradd W. Szonye wrote:
>>> Here's a feat inspired by the double-weapons & bow-sundering
>>> threads. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> After careful consideration, I regret to inform you that you are a
>> stupid cunt.
>
> WTF?

Best ignored, I'm thinking.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 1:39:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

nlandauer@gmail.com wrote:
> Basically, I've always had a slight problem with Quick Draw, and its
> lack of realism... And its restriction to drawing weapons only... At
> least the last of which I'm sure you both agree with, or the feat
> above wouldn't have been written or discussed.

Right.

> So, here's my re-write of Quick Draw (but using your much nicer feat
> name and flavor text, Bradd) that incorporates some of your ideas
> above, and some of what I've already *been* doing IMC:
>
> WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
> You handle weapons with ease.
>
> Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
>
> Benefit: As a swift action, you may sheathe or draw a single weapon.

Unfortunately, this doesn't permit an instant switch, which was one of
the two main reasons for writing up my version of the feat. It also
doesn't address the AOOs for sheathing or picking up weapons -- or did
you assume that swift actions never provoke AOOs?

> If you have Two-Weapon Fighting, you may perform two such actions
> (draw two weapons, sheathe two weapons, sheathe one and draw another,
> draw one and sheathe another) simultaneously.

I'd rather keep the rule simple and make it all-draw or all-sheathe,
with no mix & match, if you're going to use swift actions.

> As a swift action, you may pick up a single weapon or other handheld
> object from your square.

First, that should be "in your space." Second, I'd rather not limit it
to the creature's space; just use the default rules, which are
unfortunately unclear on this point. (Personally, I think you should be
able to pick up stuff from anywhere within your melee reach, so long as
it's not in somebody else's space.)
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:00:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Keith Davies wrote:

> Hmm... ISTR a feat called something like 'Takeaway'. IIRC it had a
> prereq of Improved Disarm and a successful disarm meant that you could
> grab the weapon yourself and use it, rather than dropping it at his
> feet. As written, Weapon Handling would allow you to disarm, sheathe
> your weapon, grab his, and continue beating on him... that round.

I'd consider that one of the more attractive aspects of the feat, certainly.
It lets you effectively replicate the sort of move you see in movies'
swashbuckling swordfights, where the superior fighter flips the sword out of
his opponent's hand, then catches it himself.

But here's a weirder application:
Wield your heavily-enchanted, expensive light weapon in your on hand, and a
plain dagger in your off hand. After you finish your primary attack
sequence, quick-sheath both weapons, then quick-draw them with the dagger in
your on hand and the heavily-enchanted weapon in your off hand, and make
your off hand attack(s). Two-weapon-fighting with half the expense.

--
Mark.
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 3:39:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Mark Blunden <m.blundenATntlworld.com@address.invalid> wrote:
> I'd consider that one of the more attractive aspects of the feat, certainly.
> It lets you effectively replicate the sort of move you see in movies'
> swashbuckling swordfights, where the superior fighter flips the sword out of
> his opponent's hand, then catches it himself.

That's the idea.

> But here's a weirder application:
> Wield your heavily-enchanted, expensive light weapon in your on hand, and a
> plain dagger in your off hand. After you finish your primary attack
> sequence, quick-sheath both weapons, then quick-draw them with the dagger in
> your on hand and the heavily-enchanted weapon in your off hand, and make
> your off hand attack(s). Two-weapon-fighting with half the expense.

Erk. That's just wrong. It's also easy to prevent. Attacks must always
be rolled from highest bonus to lowest; you can't do all of your
primary-hand attacks, switch, then do your off-hand attacks. Therefore,
you'd need to switch between every attack, and a smart DM would say
that's too many free actions.

It's easy enough to close the loophole by saying that you can only draw
or sheathe each weapon once per round. Nik's swift-action version
prevents this, but it also prevents other stuff I don't want to give up.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:33:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:03:35 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye"
<bradd+news@szonye.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> That's not a bad idea. It should also cap the action cost for retrieving
> a stored item at a move action, just like drawing a concealed weapon
> with Quick Draw. (By the way, I wouldn't limit it to unpacking actual
> weapons, since some "weapons" are actually ammunition, wands, scrolls,
> etc.) Good idea, people?

Seems okay to me. As long as it doesn't suddenly turn getting items
out or picking them up into an AoO-free Free Action a feat like this
probably can't do much damage - it's not that important a part of the
game for most characters.

--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
August 28, 2005 4:33:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 23:03:35 GMT, "Bradd W. Szonye"
><bradd+news@szonye.com> carved upon a tablet of ether:
>
>> That's not a bad idea. It should also cap the action cost for retrieving
>> a stored item at a move action, just like drawing a concealed weapon
>> with Quick Draw. (By the way, I wouldn't limit it to unpacking actual
>> weapons, since some "weapons" are actually ammunition, wands, scrolls,
>> etc.) Good idea, people?
>
> Seems okay to me. As long as it doesn't suddenly turn getting items
> out or picking them up into an AoO-free Free Action a feat like this
> probably can't do much damage - it's not that important a part of the
> game for most characters.

The idea was actually to make picking up an item into a no-AOO free
action, just not getting them out of storage.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 4:52:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Bradd W. Szonye <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote:
> nlandauer@gmail.com wrote:
>> Basically, I've always had a slight problem with Quick Draw, and its
>> lack of realism... And its restriction to drawing weapons only... At
>> least the last of which I'm sure you both agree with, or the feat
>> above wouldn't have been written or discussed.
>
> Right.
>
>> So, here's my re-write of Quick Draw (but using your much nicer feat
>> name and flavor text, Bradd) that incorporates some of your ideas
>> above, and some of what I've already *been* doing IMC:
>>
>> WEAPON HANDLING [GENERAL]
>> You handle weapons with ease.
>>
>> Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
>>
>> Benefit: As a swift action, you may sheathe or draw a single weapon.
>
> Unfortunately, this doesn't permit an instant switch, which was one of
> the two main reasons for writing up my version of the feat. It also
> doesn't address the AOOs for sheathing or picking up weapons -- or did
> you assume that swift actions never provoke AOOs?

As he wrote it initially, it confused me too.

Consider instead:

Weapon Handling [General]
You handle weapons with ease.
Prerequisite: BAB +1
Benefit: As a swift action, you may do one of the following: draw a
weapon, sheathe a weapon, sheathe one weapon and draw another, pick
a weapon up from the ground in your square. If you have the TWF
feat you may do this with each hand as part of the same swift
action, as long as both are one-handed or light weapons.
Normal: Drawing a weapon is a move equivalent action, that may be
combined with a move action if you have BAB +1 or more. Sheathing a
weapon is a move equivalent action. Picking up an item is a move
equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.

This offers a lot more than Quick Draw, but I don't think it's out of
line. It might be worth considering a BAB prereq on the exchange weapon
action, say about +3 (it doesn't change the prereq on the feat, it just
requires a little more skill to do). I don't like it because it makes
for an odd mechanic, though.

>> If you have Two-Weapon Fighting, you may perform two such actions
>> (draw two weapons, sheathe two weapons, sheathe one and draw another,
>> draw one and sheathe another) simultaneously.
>
> I'd rather keep the rule simple and make it all-draw or all-sheathe,
> with no mix & match, if you're going to use swift actions.

As written, 'draw weapon' applies to more than one weapon iff you have
TWF feat (RSRD). His suggestion -- carried into my proposed feat above
-- follows the same model.

>> As a swift action, you may pick up a single weapon or other handheld
>> object from your square.
>
> First, that should be "in your space."

Typical wording now is 'square'. Unless I've missed something.

> Second, I'd rather not limit it to the creature's space; just use the
> default rules, which are unfortunately unclear on this point.
> (Personally, I think you should be able to pick up stuff from anywhere
> within your melee reach, so long as it's not in somebody else's
> space.)

I disagree. That's a long way to reach -- about 7', assuming your
shoulder is about 5' off the ground and measuring center to center
between 4-neighbors (the 8-neighbors it's closer to 9'). That's a long
way to reach without AoO to pick something up.

However, I'd allow it to be incorporated with a 5' step, or even part
of a normal move if you passed through the square -- you crouch and grab
it without breaking stride, kick it up with your foot and catch it, etc.

Given that I've seen a feat that *only* grants you this ability, if you
include it as part of this feat (which, you'll note, *replaces* Quick
Draw rather than builds on it) you're already getting quite a bit.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch
!