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Where are the Mata Hari decks? - Page 2

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Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:11:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>> And yet, there is no surer way to keep your prey from being ousted than
>> by
>> you his predator giving him pool. If you can't oust your prey, you can't
>> win the game.
>
> As noted by another poster: getting a VP and then being ousted is a lot
> worse than losing a VP and then getting the GW.

Also noted, no matter how many V.P.s you give to other players you still
aren't guaranteed the game win.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:28:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <d55k2o$2cs$1@domitilla.aioe.org>, XZealot
<x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> writes:
>>>> probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try and
>>>> kill one off in combat.
>>>
>>> How do you plan on doing that? With one of your handy 12 caps?
>>
>> I generally only use Banishment in my Arika deck, too hit or miss
>> otherwise.
>
>Arika can not Banish Enkidu.

I think he's making the mistake that Banishment operates based on
someone having less blood than you, or the amount of blood they have (a
la Temptation, say).

Of course, it operates based on their actual capacity.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 12:29:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <d55r0j$ine$1@domitilla.aioe.org>, XZealot
<x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> writes:
>There is no such thing as a deck that can be beaten "only by Enkidu alone",
>that is a strawman arguement. All decks can be beaten. I think that if you
>let your prey's Pentex stay on the table then you are more than likely
>saying that you want to have a very difficult game.
>You will almost assuridly have to go through 6 more pool.

Well. Assume we go A, B, Enkidu, C, D round the table.

If A thinks she can't really take on an Enkidu scary/multi-rush, she
might decide to let B oust Enkidu and then sweep up. Of course, it
might not be that easy, but I've certainly seen situations where one
deck on a table is a pain and you'd rather someone else took it out,
letting you get three or four VP but not a sweep.

Of course, that gets into a lot of detail about specific tables,
specific decks, specific strategies and specific "holes" in deck design,
so it's hard to draw general points of any solidity.


However, in the worst case scenario, the allies who you should be able
to convince to help you may think they are best served by you not being
on the table, or simply make a bad decision. At which point, having a
"way out" that doesn't rely on other people is advantageous - though
potentially quite difficult to set up, and perhaps too costly for any
given deck.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
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Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:12:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"XZealot" <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> schreef in bericht
news:D 55u3a$q0o$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>> There's a difference in being able to oust and just die while you're next
>> to them. fr.ex if you rely on obedience as you combat defence (eg Malkav
>> voters) you can do nothing against Enkidu. And taking down your 2 (max 3)
>> vamps won't be a problem. With nothing you can do about it. Worse still:
>> the Enkidu player HAS to do it, because even with one vamp you can still
>> oust him.
>
> Okay, So you are saying that you not gaining 6 pool, your prey gaining 6
> pool and a Victory Point is better than you gaining 6 pool and a Victory
> Point. That is a 12 pool swing.

Read again. I'm saying that there MIGHT BE situations were it's better to
let the Enkidu deck die.

>You are more afraid of Enkidu than the
> deck that ousted the Enkidu deck. That seems very myopic to me.

no. rock-paper-sissors.

>
>>>>>Enkidu is not a
>>>>> threat to you until you become his predator, and in the mean time is
>>>>> quite a
>>>>> powerful ally. His controller should be favorably inclined toward you
>>>>> if
>>>>> you get rid of the Pentex. Allowing your prey to capitalize on Pentex
>>>>> Subversion for more than one turn is a strategic error, especially
>>>>> since
>>>>> Enkidu is going to more than likely smash one of you preys vampires on
>>>>> the
>>>>> first turn that he is un-Pentexed.
>>>>
>>>> that falls under good reasons to free him. :)  But probalby the grand
>>>> prey
>>>> of the Enkidu deck will unpentex him, he has the most reasons to do so.
>>>
>>> Actually, your prey has the most to gain by having Enkidu Pentex'd (an
>>> easy
>>> V.P. and half way to a potential Game Win) which means you have the most
>>> to
>>> lose (your prey gaining 6 pool and a Victory Point). If you think that
>>> anyone else on the table is worried about it, then you are wrong.
>>
>> you're contradicting yourself: see below.
>
> but I am not....see below....
>
>>>Enkidu's
>>> prey is gaining free reign to send all his minions after Enkidu's grand
>>> prey
>>> and Ekidu's grand prey is spending all his resources defending himself
>>> from
>>> an unrelenting onslaught.
>>
>> which would be stupid if he could unpentex Enkidu. which is why he's the
>> one who should do it.
>
> You can only choose to unpentex Enkidu during your turn which is after
> your
> predator's turn. Either your predator hasn't tried to unPentex Enkidu or
> he
> has tried and failed. By the time you have the opportunity to unPentex
> Enkidu it is critical that you do so.

might be, might not be. my whole point is: IT DEPENDS ON THE TABLE!
>
>>>While you will undoubtable find it pleasurable to
>>> not have a predator, you are actually the person who is in one of the
>>> worst
>>> positions at the table. Your prey is going to gain 6 pool. Your grand
>>> predator (who has no predator) will more than likely oust your predator
>>> and
>>> gain 6 pool. This leaves a 3 way table with everyone but you having 1
>>> VP
>>> and six extra pool.
>>
>> wow there: first you say that I'm worst of because of the Pentex and then
>> you make the leap that my predator will be dead. Who was worst off?
>
> (snipped special circumstances)

But I was agreeing with what you said in general! just pointing out that in
some cases it works differently.
>
> Again, you are in the worst position because you have the opportunity to
> do
> the most about it, and from what you are saying, you will convince
> yourself
> that the strategic move is to give your prey 6 pool and a V.P. over you
> keeping your grandprey in the game and denying your prey 6 pool.

again: under specific circumstances: yes. For the simple reason that the
Enkidu deck is what stands between me getting 1 VP or a GW.

>
> By not removing the Pentex when you have the opportunity to gives your
> prey
> a whole turn to again try to oust Enkidu's controller. You are allowing
> him
> to keep a huge advantage when you have the opportunity to get rid of it.
>
>>>> But if rescuing Enkidu means i get an easier first oust, but then grind
>>>> to
>>>> a halt why would I do that?
>>>
>>> To keep yourself within reach of the Game Win.
>>
>> with 1 vp gone and 4 players left you can still win the table.
>
> Yes, but you have 6 more pool to overcome than any other player on the 4
> person table. So that puts you in the most difficult position.

not if you can easily handle that 6 pool.... for dom bleeders: its only 1
extra bleed. for Parity shift decks it can be even better.

>
>
>> generalisations <-> special circumstances. That's the only thing I'm
>> saying.
>>
>> and if we're talking about generalisations, I can make one too: it's
>> better that your prey gets 1 VP and you win the table than you getting a
>> VP and not winning the table. logically sound, but doesn't actually mean
>> anything.
>
> Strawman, there is no such thing as a Guaranteed Game Win, no matter how
> many Victory Point you give to other players.

it's al in a perception of chances, of course, nothing is guaranteed.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:40:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Johannes Walch" <johannes.walch@vekn.de> wrote in message
news:D 11spe$eo9$1@stu1id2.ip.tesion.net...
> Fabio "Sooner" wrote:
>> I'm not
>> sure one can put Jayne Jonestown and Enkidu in the same bag when
>> talking how much the Red List trait is going to affect them.
>
> (because they will most likely diablerize and you don´t have any ways of
> stopping them) but I can imagine for example a deck with Mata Hari where
> she goes to torpor and you still have other Ravnos to block the diablerie
> etc..
>
> --
> johannes walch

Crimson Fury or Gangrel Conspiracy could save Enkidu's bacon but I do not
like the odds of keeping an entire table at bay from torpor for very long.
A lot depends on how much support you have in the chaff vampires. It is
probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try and
kill one off in combat. Would be extremely painful for the owner to have to
get him back out again.

Generally speaking the Red List penalty is more of a bonus for Enkidu, he is
one of the few vampires that can theoretically sustain a number of
consecutive combats and leave a trail of bodies behind to boot.. It is
important if you rely so heavily on him to stick in some good archetypes and
location based equipment cards that can help reduce the chance of becoming
vulnerable to a table pile-on.

That being said, it doesn't matter how much you try and protect any single
vampire, there is always a way to get rid of any vampire and that is what
makes the game so enjoyable. He does present an interesting challenge
though.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:40:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

It is
> probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try and
> kill one off in combat.

How do you plan on doing that? With one of your handy 12 caps?

> That being said, it doesn't matter how much you try and protect any single
> vampire, there is always a way to get rid of any vampire and that is what
> makes the game so enjoyable. He does present an interesting challenge
> though.

The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He has just
invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring inflence
enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to him in
the mean time.


--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:40:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"XZealot" <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> schreef in bericht
news:D 557vm$5mi$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> It is
>> probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try and
>> kill one off in combat.
>
> How do you plan on doing that? With one of your handy 12 caps?
>
>> That being said, it doesn't matter how much you try and protect any
>> single
>> vampire, there is always a way to get rid of any vampire and that is what
>> makes the game so enjoyable. He does present an interesting challenge
>> though.
>
> The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He has just
> invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring inflence
> enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to him in
> the mean time.
>
IME, the best way of playing any one-vamp-deck is including Pentex
subversion in your deck.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 2:40:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>> The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He has just
>> invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring inflence
>> enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to him
>> in
>> the mean time.
>>
> IME, the best way of playing any one-vamp-deck is including Pentex
> subversion in your deck.

Yes, that is a good plan, unless some other players take the action to burn
it.


--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:10:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"XZealot" <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> wrote in message
news:D 557vm$5mi$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> It is
>> probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try and
>> kill one off in combat.
>
> How do you plan on doing that? With one of your handy 12 caps?

I generally only use Banishment in my Arika deck, too hit or miss otherwise.
Even then you would still need a few things to go your way. It is not a
generic tactic most deck types can use. What I meant was that it is
probably the easiest to pull off if the circumstances allow themselves.
Protean and Fortitude can allow him to absorb some crazy damage in combat.
Outside of combat he is more vulnerable.

> The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He has just
> invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring inflence
> enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to him in
> the mean time.

I can not think of any decks that can do massive pool damage in the first
three turns without a ridiculous amount of luck. But that is not saying
much, I do not usually play the fast bleed decks. I do agree that the best
way to prevent an Enkidu deck from entrenching itself is to hit it hard
early, the problem is realising it is an Enkidu deck before it is too late.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:10:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>>> probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try and
>>> kill one off in combat.
>>
>> How do you plan on doing that? With one of your handy 12 caps?
>
> I generally only use Banishment in my Arika deck, too hit or miss
> otherwise.

Arika can not Banish Enkidu.

>> The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He has just
>> invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring inflence
>> enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to him
>> in
>> the mean time.
>
> I can not think of any decks that can do massive pool damage in the first
> three turns without a ridiculous amount of luck. But that is not saying
> much, I do not usually play the fast bleed decks. I do agree that the
> best way to prevent an Enkidu deck from entrenching itself is to hit it
> hard early, the problem is realising it is an Enkidu deck before it is too
> late.

I tend to throw my meanest stuff at someone when they dont' have anyone out.
They can't possibly defend against it. Of course there is the strategic
line of thought about letting someone spend themselves down and do alot of
the work for you.


--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:10:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Nvim" <nvim@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:427650cd$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
> "XZealot" <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> wrote in message
> news:D 557vm$5mi$1@domitilla.aioe.org...

>
>> The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He has just
>> invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring inflence
>> enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to him
>> in
>> the mean time.
>
> I can not think of any decks that can do massive pool damage in the first
> three turns without a ridiculous amount of luck. But that is not saying
> much, I do not usually play the fast bleed decks. I do agree that the
> best way to prevent an Enkidu deck from entrenching itself is to hit it
> hard early, the problem is realising it is an Enkidu deck before it is too
> late.
A local player (Luk De Ron) here once made a deck (Giovanni+ Shroud Mastery
+Wraiths) that could theoretically bleed for 27 after just 3 turns. I does
require a lucky draw though. I never saw it happen, the 27, but i saw him
go as high as 20, which is enough if your prey has influenced every turn.
Evil dominate bleeders ;)  I can't exacly remember how it went, but IIRC he
started with

turn 1 with: Jake Washington + bleeds with computer hacking, influence out
Rudolpho Giovanni + 1 on Isabel Giovanni.

Turn 2: Play Path of Bones. Rudolpho recruits 3 Wraiths (using Shroud
mastery to untap): Brigitte Gebauer, Felix 'the fix' and Ambrosius. both
Jake and Rudolpho play a computer hacking. influence out Isabel giovanni.

Turn 3: Isabel bleeds with: govern, Command of the Beast, conditioning, for
a grand total of 7. The rest plays computer hackings: (jake:1, rudopho:2,
Brigitte:3, Felix: 2, Ambrosius:1) for a total of 9
prey has been bled for 1+3+7+9= 20 after just three turns.

Luk explained how it could go even higher, but I forgot.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 6:45:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"XZealot" <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> wrote in message
news:D 55kho$3m0$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
>> Problem is: does anyone REALLY want Enkidu back in the game? Even as a
>> cross table ally, I would need some good reasons (except for the obvious
>> table balance issues) to get the Pentex of him if I couldn't deal with a
>> rushing Enkidu.
>
> If you allow your prey to spend two pool to totally neutralize his prey's
> key vampire then you need go back to Strategy 101 class. Enkidu is not a
> threat to you until you become his predator, and in the mean time is quite
> a
> powerful ally. His controller should be favorably inclined toward you if
> you get rid of the Pentex. Allowing your prey to capitalize on Pentex
> Subversion for more than one turn is a strategic error, especially since
> Enkidu is going to more than likely smash one of you preys vampires on the
> first turn that he is un-Pentexed.
>
>
> --
> Comments Welcome,
> Norman S. Brown, Jr
> XZealot
> Archon of the Swamp

It would depend on the circumstances, he will more than likely only need one
turn to bring out a chaff vampire and it could release Enkidu. If he was
losing pool fast and I was out of the firing line then I would release him.
No point giving someone easy VP, unless that someone is you. A released
Enkidu would more than likely inflict some serious carnage even if the
player was doomed to die, that would be a good thing from where you would be
sitting cross table.

I agree it would be a bad strategy to just leave Enkidu locked up and leave
the player vulnerable if you are not realistically in the firing line. You
would have to weigh up what was in your best interest based on what you were
playing and what your opponents were playing.
Anonymous
May 3, 2005 3:53:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"James Coupe" <james@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message
news:zlpmp$TO9ndCFwPI@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk...
> In message <d55k2o$2cs$1@domitilla.aioe.org>, XZealot
> <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> writes:
>>>>> probably a lot easier to Banish a low-blood Enkidu than it is to try
>>>>> and
>>>>> kill one off in combat.
>>>>
>>>> How do you plan on doing that? With one of your handy 12 caps?
>>>
>>> I generally only use Banishment in my Arika deck, too hit or miss
>>> otherwise.
>>
>>Arika can not Banish Enkidu.
>
> I think he's making the mistake that Banishment operates based on
> someone having less blood than you, or the amount of blood they have (a
> la Temptation, say).
>
> Of course, it operates based on their actual capacity.

Yeah, I know how it works. I usually work on getting her capacity higher
than anything else on the table. That in itself is a useful defense
against a lot of things but is also a requirement of Banishment.
Anonymous
May 4, 2005 10:30:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Jeroen Rombauts wrote:
> "XZealot" <x_zealot@brucefoodsla.com> schreef in bericht
> news:D 557vm$5mi$1@domitilla.aioe.org...
> > The best way to get rid of Enkidu is to oust his controller. He
has just
> > invested 3 turns and 11 pool influencing him into play, barring
inflence
> > enhancers. You should be able to do massive MASSIVE pool damage to
him in
> > the mean time.
> >
> IME, the best way of playing any one-vamp-deck is including Pentex
> subversion in your deck.

Last night i tested 2 decks: 1 Enkidu/!Gangrel and 1 Nosferatu
Prince/Red List.
In both decks i had problems with Pentex at the beggining of the games,
since it slows down even more bringing up large vampires.
Anyway, i tested the Nosferatu/Red List deck and it didn't impress me a
lot. I find out the Red List action hard to play since it has to be
played on a younger vampire and has no stealth. Skipping (for now)
in-details, i think Red List is a add-on mechanism on regular combat
decks and strategies, similar to Haven Uncovered. I found it hard to
build a strategy only based on Red List as i thought it was 1st turn:
Red List, 2nd turn: everyone attacks the opponent Red Listed.... ;-)

..- Luis Duarte
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 10:58:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Well, when i mean "everyone" i mean in fact all my vampires and perhaps
my prey's prey vampires (attacking back).
Only i was playing Trophy:D iablerie (the only Trophy i play) which was
most of the time in the ash head to be picked after a diablerie (never
in play).

..- LD
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 11:30:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 4 May 2005 06:30:07 -0700, "Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon"
<luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> scrawled:

>decks and strategies, similar to Haven Uncovered. I found it hard to
>build a strategy only based on Red List as i thought it was 1st turn:
>Red List, 2nd turn: everyone attacks the opponent Red Listed.... ;-)

why is everyone else attacking the red list guy? were they all playing
trophies too? any trophies you have in play you can choose not to give
out if you don't want to.
were they doing it just to stop you getting trophies?

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 2:48:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon" <luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote in message
news:1115301504.862617.101210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Well, when i mean "everyone" i mean in fact all my vampires and perhaps
> my prey's prey vampires (attacking back).
> Only i was playing Trophy:D iablerie (the only Trophy i play) which was
> most of the time in the ash head to be picked after a diablerie (never
> in play).

Why would you only play with Trophy: Diablerie? Trophies are incredibly
powerful. So you went through the nightmare of jumping through hoops just
to escape diablerie. That seems a little silly.

Trophy Hunting Ground is a personal Rack that can't be stolen and stacks
with the real rack

Trophy Domain is an Eternal Vigilance and Sport Bike combined and
stackable!!

Trophy Progeny is a free 2 cap vampire full of blood who can act on the turn
they come into play

Trophy Retainers is a free unblockable action every turn to get a retainer
out of you hand or deck that untaps you.

Trophy Wealth is gain 5 pool if you are playing with expensive equipment.

Trophy Clan Respect is a permanent Clan Loyalty on a vampire which is
extremely powerful in tournament play with all the clan based decks
(Lasombra Royalty, Eurobrujah, Malk S & B, Tzimice Wall)

These are just too powerful of effects to be ignored. You should definantly
try them.
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
Anonymous
May 5, 2005 4:26:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Nvim a écrit :

> I can not think of any decks that can do massive pool damage in the first
> three turns without a ridiculous amount of luck.

then you should come to tournaments sometime :) 


> But that is not saying
> much, I do not usually play the fast bleed decks.

we're not talking of you, but of the other guys on the table that will
try to condition / legal / kindred spirits / conservative' you out of
the table in the first 3 turns :) 


> I do agree that the best
> way to prevent an Enkidu deck from entrenching itself is to hit it hard
> early, the problem is realising it is an Enkidu deck before it is too late.

if you have no vampire out able to intercept, your predator will take
advantage of this fact. plain and simple :) 
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 5:07:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"reyda" <true_reyda@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4279f4e0$0$6934$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-06.noos.net...
> Nvim a écrit :
>
>> I can not think of any decks that can do massive pool damage in the first
>> three turns without a ridiculous amount of luck.
>
> then you should come to tournaments sometime :) 

I do not play the bleed decks just because I think they are boring, which I
do, but also because I feel they are far too hit or miss. If I roll up and
my prey is playing a deck which can redirect, deflect, etc then it is going
to be a long day, or more than likely a short one.

>> But that is not saying much, I do not usually play the fast bleed decks.
>
> we're not talking of you, but of the other guys on the table that will try
> to condition / legal / kindred spirits / conservative' you out of the
> table in the first 3 turns :) 

You could avoid part of that headache if you bring a weenie out first to
hold the fort while you influence out your superstar. Mind you, there are a
thousand things that could go wrong, there is no one perfect vampire, deck
or strategy. Luck plays a major factor, where you sit, what others are
playing and how their strengths/weakness match with your own.


>
>
>> I do agree that the best way to prevent an Enkidu deck from entrenching
>> itself is to hit it hard early, the problem is realising it is an Enkidu
>> deck before it is too late.
>
> if you have no vampire out able to intercept, your predator will take
> advantage of this fact. plain and simple :) 

That is true, but a lot depends on what your grand predator is doing. It is
not desirable to spend the first three influences defenseless. It would be
wiser to bring out something you can influence quickly before bringing out
Enkidu, that would also help him against things like pentax subversion where
he needs something else to free him.

But, it doesn't matter what style of play you look at, there is always
another deck or style that can expose holes in your armor. You can slap out
some weenie bleed vampire to hope to expose your prey and your predator
might be playing some rush combat deck which you are going to be in a world
of hurt. So yes, I agree there is a weakness to influencing out something
big like that, but everything has a weakness.
Anonymous
May 6, 2005 10:31:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

>Why would you only play with Trophy: Diablerie?
Because with a single card it allows me to burn vampires without the
blood hunt problem. I don't even have to bother about votes or other
oot clan specific master cards.

>Trophies are incredibly powerful.

.... in particular Trophy:D iablerie.

> So you went through the nightmare of jumping through hoops just
>to escape diablerie. That seems a little silly.

The idea is to simplify that process: you mark the target as a red
list, you fight him until he goes to torpor and you diablerize him.

In a combat deck, you have little space for the other trophies IMO.
But they're good indeed.

..- Luis Duarte
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