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Simple AUS/THA combat package for review!

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Anonymous
March 10, 2005 12:22:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

9x Apportation
7x Telepathic Tracking
8x Theft of Vitae
6x Walk of Flame

30 cards, and it fits nicely into many Tremere decks. So what do you
think? Not enough Theft? Too much Flame? Would you add dodges to
avoid Breath of the Dragon? Do you think I'm insane for suggesting 7
copies of a hard-to-find card like T.Tracking? Bueller?
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 9:13:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people can
> gather up 5+ copies. IF the module only has 5, I'd add another Apportation
> and another Theft, like this:
>

I've had it on my wanted list since Anarchs came out. I currently have
one, and that's only because it was part of a SW Uncommon Set I bought on
eBay.

Just to give an example of its hard-to-findness

-Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:41:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

salem wrote:
> On 10 Mar 2005 09:22:55 -0800, "Dorrinal Blackmantle"
> <dorrinal@hotmail.com> scrawled:
>
> >9x Apportation
> >7x Telepathic Tracking
> >8x Theft of Vitae
> >6x Walk of Flame
>
> i'd up the theft by one and down the walk by one.
>
(snip)

A resonable adjustment, IMO. I figured 7 T.Trackings would make Walk
of Flame more reliable but when I think about it, 6 is still very easy
to clump on. That and more Theft of Vitae is generally better.

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Related resources
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 10:45:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Mike wrote:
> My usual 'combat package' for comparison is:
>
> 10 Theft of Vitae
> 6 Walk of Flame
> 4 Blood to Water
> 10 Apportation
> 6 Telepathic Tracking
> 4 Nose of the Hound

36 Combat cards and 4 rushes sounds good, but you could probably go
down to 30 combat cards. I'm a little concerned with the Blood to
Water. You'll notice that I never include it. That's not because of
the high cost - generally Theft of Vitae makes up for 2-blood combat
cards - but because it requires you to be at close range, which can
often doom the poor Tremere. I see Telepathic Tracking primarily used
at inferior to get to long range in the second round, making Walk of
Flame much safer.

What is your experience with Blood to Water that makes you think it is
worth it?

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:09:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
> 9x Apportation
> 7x Telepathic Tracking
> 8x Theft of Vitae
> 6x Walk of Flame
>
> 30 cards, and it fits nicely into many Tremere decks.
> So what do you think? Not enough Theft? Too much
> Flame?

Theft is okay, not enough Apportations.

12x Apportation
4x Telepathic Tracking
8x Theft of Vitae
4x Walk of Flame
2x whatever you like (possibly more TT or Theft)

That's if you want to actually burn someone every now and again.

If you want a *real* combat package, but aren't really concerned about
burning vampires, try:

12x Apportation
4x Telepathic Tracking
12x Theft of Vitae
2x Walk of Flame

Adding a couple of Blood Fury/Rage is an interesting alternative, but
I'd generally rather just include a couple more Apportations.

Another alternative:

6x Apportation
8x Blood Fury
8x Serenading the Kami
8x Taste of Vitae

> Would you add dodges to avoid Breath of the Dragon?

No. Can't win, don't try.

Oh wait, I mean, unless your metagame is heavy with BoD Tzimisce (or
traditional Assamites), it's all about estimating your chances of
running into ranged agg. And then realizing that chances are *low*, so
it's not worth the effort to prepare for it. Maximize usable card
slots.

> Do you think I'm insane for suggesting 7 copies of
> a hard-to-find card like T.Tracking?

Insane is such a loaded term. :) 

I think that until we see TT reprinted, it's unlikely that most people
will be able to come up with that many. I've got somewhere in the
neighborhood of 10 or 12, but mostly because Kevin M kept trying to
foist them off on me whenever I went to one of his tournaments (that
and Perfect Clarity).

Not that I minded.

It'd be pretty cool if LoB had TT in the pre-cons...

I find it interesting that I tend to think in groups of 4 cards. I
wish I had Gomi's discipline...he's good about card grouping. Well,
and Cherryholmes.


Xian
undisciplined
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 12:12:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Xian wrote:
> Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
> > 9x Apportation
> > 7x Telepathic Tracking
> > 8x Theft of Vitae
> > 6x Walk of Flame
> >
> > 30 cards, and it fits nicely into many Tremere decks.
> > So what do you think? Not enough Theft? Too much
> > Flame?
>
> Theft is okay, not enough Apportations.
>
> 12x Apportation
> 4x Telepathic Tracking
> 8x Theft of Vitae
> 4x Walk of Flame
> 2x whatever you like (possibly more TT or Theft)
>

You know, that might be better in the long run. 12/6/8/4. It's
possible that ignoring Walk of Flame may make for a better combat
package but it's always so delightful to pull it off :)  Before I owned
T.Tracking I used something like:

16x Apportation
10x Theft of Vitae
4x Walk of Flame

You should see the look on your opponent's faces after you outmaneuver
a Celerity deck with this one ^_^

> That's if you want to actually burn someone every now and again.
>
> If you want a *real* combat package, but aren't really concerned
about
> burning vampires, try:
>
> 12x Apportation
> 4x Telepathic Tracking
> 12x Theft of Vitae
> 2x Walk of Flame
>
> Adding a couple of Blood Fury/Rage is an interesting alternative, but
> I'd generally rather just include a couple more Apportations.

Agreed. The only time Blood Fury is the best option is when you are
playing versus Drawing Out the Beast + Grapple. And even then Flesh of
Marble makes it an exercise in futility.

> > Would you add dodges to avoid Breath of the Dragon?
>
> No. Can't win, don't try.
>
> Oh wait, I mean, unless your metagame is heavy with BoD Tzimisce (or
> traditional Assamites), it's all about estimating your chances of
> running into ranged agg. And then realizing that chances are *low*,
so
> it's not worth the effort to prepare for it. Maximize usable card
> slots.

Yeah, that's why all my Wind Dances sit outside of decks at the moment.
I would like to experiment with Bond with the Mountain, though.

> I think that until we see TT reprinted, it's unlikely that most
people
> will be able to come up with that many. I've got somewhere in the
> neighborhood of 10 or 12, but mostly because Kevin M kept trying to
> foist them off on me whenever I went to one of his tournaments (that
> and Perfect Clarity).

I only have 7, myself. It's been a pain in the ass getting them all,
but I think using 5-7 copies can enable a Tremere deck to get to the
second round of combat more reliably.

> Xian
> undisciplined

*plays Govern the Undisciplined at superior Thaumaturgy*

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 1:01:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Daneel wrote:
> T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people can
> gather up 5+ copies.

I wouldn't assume that at all. It was an Uncommon, but it's been out of
completely out of print for years. And it's useful, so the people that
HAVE copies of it are generally very loathe to trade them away. Lots of
long-time VtES players have very few, if any.

And I'll second the comment elsewhere in the thread that I hope it gets
reprinted in Legacies.

> Daneel

-John Flournoy
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 1:09:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

John Flournoy wrote:
> Daneel wrote:
> > T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people
can
> > gather up 5+ copies.
>
> I wouldn't assume that at all. It was an Uncommon, but it's been out
of
> completely out of print for years.

Gah. Brainlock. Not completely out of print, but certainly not always
easy to find boosters for (barring 'i'd like to buy a whole box,
please', which many players can't/won't do.) Plus it's an uncommon in a
large set;
I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if memory serves buying a
box of boosters should give you on average about 1 copy of TT, assuming
the box is uniformly random. (35-or-so boosters in a box, 3 uncommons
per booster, 100 uncommons in the set.)

-John Flournoy
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 2:34:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:13:38 -0500, Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
<etherial@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote:

>> T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people can
>> gather up 5+ copies. IF the module only has 5, I'd add another
>> Apportation
>> and another Theft, like this:
>>
>
> I've had it on my wanted list since Anarchs came out. I currently have
> one, and that's only because it was part of a SW Uncommon Set I bought on
> eBay.
>
> Just to give an example of its hard-to-findness
>
> -Gregory Stuart Pettigrew

No kidding.

Problem is, TT isn't too much use alone. It is typically like Psyche
in that you want either none or five in most decks. ;(

Hopefully in Africa some clans heavily rely on its use...

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 2:34:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:34:28 GMT, Daneel <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 06:13:38 -0500, Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
><etherial@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> wrote:
>
>>> T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people can
>>> gather up 5+ copies. IF the module only has 5, I'd add another
>>> Apportation
>>> and another Theft, like this:
>>
>> I've had it on my wanted list since Anarchs came out. I currently have
>> one, and that's only because it was part of a SW Uncommon Set I bought on
>> eBay.
>> Just to give an example of its hard-to-findness
>> -Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
>
>No kidding.
>Problem is, TT isn't too much use alone. It is typically like Psyche
> in that you want either none or five in most decks. ;(
>Hopefully in Africa some clans heavily rely on its use...

Hope so too.

I'm in the same situation - only one TT.
Never saw it in any trade list around here...

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 4:55:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

John Flournoy wrote:
| Daneel wrote:
|
|>T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people can
|>gather up 5+ copies.
|
| I wouldn't assume that at all. It was an Uncommon, but it's been out of

It was one of the "rare uncommons". I don't have the details in front
of me, so I don't have the exact numbers, but it was a situation where
if a normal uncommon would average, say, 2 per box of boosters, this
particular one would average 1, and frequently none.

I remember there was some anomaly in the printing at the time that
caused this to happen. You'd have to go back and look for what it was.

| completely out of print for years. And it's useful, so the people that
| HAVE copies of it are generally very loathe to trade them away. Lots of
| long-time VtES players have very few, if any.

Correct. The card is generally useful in any Auspex deck that intends
to fight; especially with its press-with-a-maneuver capacity, even when
you don't need to get around Combat Ends, it has a great second use.

All this combines to mean that it'll be hard to find for trade.

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here

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March 11, 2005 5:02:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Dorrinal Blackmantle" <dorrinal@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1110475375.594530.305880@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> 9x Apportation
> 7x Telepathic Tracking
> 8x Theft of Vitae
> 6x Walk of Flame
>
> 30 cards, and it fits nicely into many Tremere decks. So what do you
> think? Not enough Theft? Too much Flame? Would you add dodges to
> avoid Breath of the Dragon? Do you think I'm insane for suggesting 7
> copies of a hard-to-find card like T.Tracking? Bueller?

My usual 'combat package' for comparison is:

10 Theft of Vitae
6 Walk of Flame
4 Blood to Water
10 Apportation
6 Telepathic Tracking
4 Nose of the Hound


Regards,

Mike
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:18:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 10 Mar 2005 09:22:55 -0800, "Dorrinal Blackmantle"
<dorrinal@hotmail.com> scrawled:

>9x Apportation
>7x Telepathic Tracking
>8x Theft of Vitae
>6x Walk of Flame
>
>30 cards, and it fits nicely into many Tremere decks. So what do you
>think? Not enough Theft? Too much Flame? Would you add dodges to
>avoid Breath of the Dragon? Do you think I'm insane for suggesting 7
>copies of a hard-to-find card like T.Tracking? Bueller?

i'd up the theft by one and down the walk by one.

apportations can be used to try and keep close if you're worried about
breath of the dragon, and then you can both go down in a screaming
heap, but the opponent will be down 3 blood (1 for breath, 2 for
theft), and you'll be up 2. Unless they play breath at superior, in
which case hopefully they'll burn. :) 


salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Anonymous
March 11, 2005 11:18:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:18:35 +1100, salem <salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> On 10 Mar 2005 09:22:55 -0800, "Dorrinal Blackmantle"
> <dorrinal@hotmail.com> scrawled:
>
>> 9x Apportation
>> 7x Telepathic Tracking
>> 8x Theft of Vitae
>> 6x Walk of Flame
>>
>> 30 cards, and it fits nicely into many Tremere decks. So what do you
>> think? Not enough Theft? Too much Flame? Would you add dodges to
>> avoid Breath of the Dragon? Do you think I'm insane for suggesting 7
>> copies of a hard-to-find card like T.Tracking? Bueller?
>
> i'd up the theft by one and down the walk by one.

I second that.

Looks cool though.

T.Tracking is hard to find, but it is an UC, so I presume people can
gather up 5+ copies. IF the module only has 5, I'd add another Apportation
and another Theft, like this:

10x Apportation
5x Telepathic Tracking
10x Theft of Vitae
5x Walk of Flame

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 1:41:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 11 Mar 2005 09:12:17 -0800, "Dorrinal Blackmantle"
<john.mcglynn@gmail.com> scrawled:

>
>Xian wrote:

>> foist them off on me whenever I went to one of his tournaments (that
>> and Perfect Clarity).
>
>I only have 7, myself. It's been a pain in the ass getting them all,
>but I think using 5-7 copies can enable a Tremere deck to get to the
>second round of combat more reliably.

i seem to have managed to end up with 8 TT and 8 Perfect Clarities.
and, well, that's too much. I have some of each lying around doing
nothing.

which means i need to build another trem deck, not that i am going to
trade any away.

so, anyone got a good deck list that uses 4 TT and 4 PC? doesn't even
have to be a trem deck. could be tzim with tha, or something. malk
with tha? hmmm...

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 1:41:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:41:26 +1100, salem
<salem_christ.geo@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 11 Mar 2005 09:12:17 -0800, "Dorrinal Blackmantle"
><john.mcglynn@gmail.com> scrawled:
>so, anyone got a good deck list that uses 4 TT and 4 PC? doesn't even
>have to be a trem deck. could be tzim with tha, or something. malk
>with tha? hmmm...

Petaniqua?

Petaniqua, 9, chi AUS DAI DEM OBF THA, Malkavian, 4, [KMW]
Petaniqua (ADV), 9, chi AUS DAI DEM OBF THA, Baali, 4, [KMW]

One verion has a press and +1 strength, the other +1 bleed and deals 2
unpreventable damage before range in any round after the first. Both
can stand immune from agg damage and have a lot of options regarding
maneuvers (DAI, OBF, THA).

Some good bruise n' bleed deck featuring her merged, D'habi Revenant,
DAI/THA combat goodies?

Or merged Ambrogino? Bleeding for 3 with +1 stealth and Perfect
Clarity... Hm... Wish I had more than two of these.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Clan Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 1:42:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

What about if the deck contains Valerius Maior (not advanced) who many
theft would you put in? i'm using a deck with him and petaniqua with 13
thefts, but still it seems a bit awkward, it's lacking... uhm... PUNCH!
Anonymous
March 13, 2005 11:20:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Omael wrote:
> What about if the deck contains Valerius Maior (not advanced) who
many
> theft would you put in? i'm using a deck with him and petaniqua with
13
> thefts, but still it seems a bit awkward, it's lacking... uhm...
PUNCH!

I do not have much experience with him yet, but I would probably go
with 16 strikes. Perhaps 12 Theft of Vitae and 4 Soul Burn? That is
pretty nasty. You will also want to mix in some Conflagration, but I
think that goes without saying.

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Anonymous
March 14, 2005 3:23:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 13 Mar 2005 08:20:22 -0800, "Dorrinal Blackmantle"
<dorrinal@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>Omael wrote:
>> What about if the deck contains Valerius Maior (not advanced) who
>many
>> theft would you put in? i'm using a deck with him and petaniqua with
>13
>> thefts, but still it seems a bit awkward, it's lacking... uhm...
>PUNCH!
>
>I do not have much experience with him yet, but I would probably go
>with 16 strikes. Perhaps 12 Theft of Vitae and 4 Soul Burn? That is
>pretty nasty. You will also want to mix in some Conflagration, but I
>think that goes without saying.
>Dorrinal Blackmantle
>Chronicler of Clan Tremere

I've built a deck featuring him using 14 Theft of Vitae, 4 Burst of
Sunlight and a bunch of Ignore the Searing Flames (and some other
combat support obviously, like 4 Trap, 8 Apportations, 4 Fear of the
Void Below, 4 High Ground or something like that).

I fear there is too much combat in this deck that does not use Auspex
for nothing besides a few Telepathic Misdirections, but I guess I can
reliably block using Valerius ADV ability (I plan to merge him), Magic
of the Smith and Bowl of Convergence, and 1 of each media location
available besides the London Evening Star. I'll test it next week and
tell how it goes. The bad thing is that I don't have no anti-S:CE
tech, but it's not showing up that often in casual play...

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Clan Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V:tES Brasil Site (only in Portuguese for now)
http://planeta.terra.com.br/lazer/vtesbrasil/
Anonymous
March 15, 2005 10:55:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Mike wrote:
> "Wes" <ghost@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message
> news:D 16j190ju6@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
> > Sure, but only *if* you have all five cards flowing at the right
times
> > (including the unmentioned press needed to get to second round).
That's a
> > tall order, even if you are focusing on THA combat...
>
> Yes but you don't *need* all five cards on every occaision anyway.
With
> plenty of Apportations, the Trackings, and possibly Hawgs or a Mob
> Connections too, pressing should be an issue. You only really need
the BTW
> and WOF combo in the second round to be effective.

I have used the occasional Blood to Water to take out a War Ghoul or
Shambling Hordes. If you see those minions, B2W might be handy. What
would be nicer would be Far Mastery. Rumor has it that Tremere have
Dominate in-clan.

Against vampires I would rather be at long range than try to work in a
Blood to Water.

>
> > > Besides, if you equip with a Leather jacket first,
> >
> > Sorry, make that "all six cards" :) 
>
> Yes it's another card, but if you bide your time you'll see it.
>
> > > then that should protect you from the opposing strike. And
> > > BTW also kills War Ghouls.
> >
> > Apportation + Theft of Vitae is probably a better way to deal with
War
> > Ghouls, since it bypasses their prevention. A smart Tzimisce player
will
> > probably choose easier targets than a THA-user.
>
> A smart Tremere player wouldn't let the War Ghoul come out in the
first
> place... :D 

I agree, but sometimes you can't do anything about Horatio and Jake
Washington on the first turn. :) 

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
March 15, 2005 1:05:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> > My usual 'combat package' for comparison is:
> >
> > 10 Theft of Vitae
> > 6 Walk of Flame
> > 4 Blood to Water
> > 10 Apportation
> > 6 Telepathic Tracking
> > 4 Nose of the Hound
>
> 36 Combat cards and 4 rushes sounds good, but you could probably go
> down to 30 combat cards. I'm a little concerned with the Blood to
> Water. You'll notice that I never include it. That's not because of
> the high cost - generally Theft of Vitae makes up for 2-blood combat
> cards - but because it requires you to be at close range, which can
> often doom the poor Tremere. I see Telepathic Tracking primarily used
> at inferior to get to long range in the second round, making Walk of
> Flame much safer.
>
> What is your experience with Blood to Water that makes you think it is
> worth it?

1st round -> maneuver, theft
2nd round -> blood to water, walk of flame

That should be enough to burn a vampire on 7 blood or less, which TBH is
well worth the risk. Besides, if you equip with a Leather jacket first, then
that should protect you from the opposing strike. And BTW also kills War
Ghouls.


Regards,

Mike
March 15, 2005 1:05:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Mike" <mike@vekn.org.uk> wrote
>
> 1st round -> maneuver, theft
> 2nd round -> blood to water, walk of flame
>
> That should be enough to burn a vampire on 7 blood or less, which TBH is
> well worth the risk.

Sure, but only *if* you have all five cards flowing at the right times
(including the unmentioned press needed to get to second round). That's a
tall order, even if you are focusing on THA combat...

> Besides, if you equip with a Leather jacket first,

Sorry, make that "all six cards" :) 

> then that should protect you from the opposing strike. And
> BTW also kills War Ghouls.

Apportation + Theft of Vitae is probably a better way to deal with War
Ghouls, since it bypasses their prevention. A smart Tzimisce player will
probably choose easier targets than a THA-user.

Cheers,
WES
March 15, 2005 6:25:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Wes" <ghost@NYETSPAMmnsi.net> wrote in message
news:D 16j190ju6@enews4.newsguy.com...

> Sure, but only *if* you have all five cards flowing at the right times
> (including the unmentioned press needed to get to second round). That's a
> tall order, even if you are focusing on THA combat...

Yes but you don't *need* all five cards on every occaision anyway. With
plenty of Apportations, the Trackings, and possibly Hawgs or a Mob
Connections too, pressing should be an issue. You only really need the BTW
and WOF combo in the second round to be effective.

> > Besides, if you equip with a Leather jacket first,
>
> Sorry, make that "all six cards" :) 

Yes it's another card, but if you bide your time you'll see it.

> > then that should protect you from the opposing strike. And
> > BTW also kills War Ghouls.
>
> Apportation + Theft of Vitae is probably a better way to deal with War
> Ghouls, since it bypasses their prevention. A smart Tzimisce player will
> probably choose easier targets than a THA-user.

A smart Tremere player wouldn't let the War Ghoul come out in the first
place... :D 
!