One last question about GROUPS

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Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
with NO GROUP RULES.
Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
group rule. so this can help a lot.


Lucas Linard
Prince of Fortaleza

 

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Lucas Linard wrote:
> Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
> with NO GROUP RULES.
> Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
> group rule. so this can help a lot.

I think most of the examples are hypothetical.

How about this?

12x unique 3-cap dom obf vampires
If we had enough Sets and Groups, it could happen.

Or, how about 4x DOM obf vampires, 4x dom OBF vampires and 4x dom obf
vampires?

Jeff

 

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"Lucas Linard" <lucaslinard@gmail.com> wrote in message news:2f1a2f3f.0503161550.93d1b46@posting.google.com...
> Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
> with NO GROUP RULES.
> Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
> group rule. so this can help a lot.

Tell them that this criteria for convincing them to use the grouping
rule is cracked: there may not be a strickly "broken" crypt at
present. But that shouldn't matter. The game is presumedly
"balanced" to use it - meaning that the cards are designed in such
a way as to make the game more challenging and interesting if
all of its intended rules are used.

For instance - can anyone demonstrate how that game is "broken" if:

- you gave *2* pool rather than only 1 pool for beginning your untap
phase with the edge?

- a vote card was worth *2* votes rather than only 1 vote?

- every turn, each player received *2* discard phase actions
rather than 1?

- etc.

The point is, the game is intended to be played using those rules.
If you're not using all the rules, you're playing a variant of the
game. If that's what you want to do, fine. But why not use the
real rules? That way, you can practice for tournaments and such
and use the same decks and everything.

Fred

 

[pat]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Lucas Linard" <lucaslinard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f1a2f3f.0503161550.93d1b46@posting.google.com...
> Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
> with NO GROUP RULES.
> Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
> group rule. so this can help a lot.
>
>
> Lucas Linard
> Prince of Fortaleza

Searching on obf-dom-pre in groups 2 & 4 in FELDB gives this result:

Robin Withers 4 dom obf pre Ventrue 4
Maureen, Dark Priestess 6 dom obf DAI PRE Baali 1 vote 4

Amenophobis 7 dom pre OBF SER Followers of Set Primogen 4
Neferu 9 dom nec OBF PRE SER THA Followers of Set 2 votes 4

Count Ormonde 5 dom pre ser OBF Followers of Set 2
Kephamos, High Priest of Marrakech 8 dom obf pre SER Followers of Set 2
votes 2
Khay`tall, Snake of Eden 9 aus DOM OBF PRE SER Followers of Set 2
Nefertiti 10 cel pot DOM OBF PRE SER Followers of Set 2
Kemintiri (ADV) 10 aus dom OBF PRE SER THA Followers of Set 3 votes 2
Kemintiri 10 aus dom OBF PRE SER THA Followers of Set 2


Queen Anne 10 aus obf DOM FOR PRE Ventrue Prince 2
Huitzilopochtli 10 AUS DAI DOM OBF PRE POT Baali 2
Cailean 10 dom ANI OBF POT PRE Nosferatu Antitribu Archbishop 2
Leandro 11 cel dom AUS OBF PRE Malkavian Inner Circle 2
Arika 11 aus cel DOM FOR OBF PRE Ventrue Inner Circle 2

Giving Arika, Leandro, Cailean, et al. the support of Robin & Maureen is
pretty broken.

Putting Amenophobis & Neferu into the G2 Setite mix is just as bad, I
suppose.

- Pat

 

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Lucas Linard wrote:

> Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
> with NO GROUP RULES.
> Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
> group rule. so this can help a lot.

Well, the easy way to convince people to use the group rule is by saying
"Hey--look at that in the rulebook! There is a group rule!"

It is going to be difficult to post a "broken" crypt, 'cause that isn't how
crypts work, really. But the end result is that there are supposed to be
limits in crypt building, and the limits were maintained originally by
controling how many vampires were in circulation. When they decided to make
a new base set, their choices were:

A) Throw the limits to crypt building out the window.

B) Not make new vampires.

C) Invent a crypt group rule.

A wasn't really palatable. B limits marketability. C makes everything work
just fine, assuming you aren't all hung up on not liking a group rule.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"How does this end?"
"In fire."
Emperor Turhan and Kosh

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Whilst not strictly broken, Mata Hari and Ian Forestal in the same deck
would give the option of playing (I believe) any single card in the
entire game. Whilst some would be a touch useless (The !Brujah with ths
weapon, etc) once in play, you would have those options.

Admittedly the decks would probably be quite wacky, but could be quite
interesting.

Brian in our playgroup was actually waiting on Advanced Ian Forestal

Ian Forestal Adv
!Tremere
8 cap
Anarch
May play any non-discipline based cards as though he meets the
requirements of that card.
[merge] May play any disciplines as though he had the superior level of
that discipline.

Mata Hari gives you the first option, but doesn't allow a broken combo
by the fact she is G4.

Now of course Sealed Deck !Tre starter and 4 KMW boosters...

Andy
VEKN Setite Ruler of Cambridge

 

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"Lucas Linard" <lucaslinard@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2f1a2f3f.0503161550.93d1b46@posting.google.com...
> Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
> with NO GROUP RULES.
> Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
> group rule. so this can help a lot.

Here is a deck that is pretty powerful if you are ignoring the grouping
rules.

Deck Name : Ventrue Broken
Author : Norman S. Brown Jr
Description :



Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 1 max: 4 average: 3.17
------------------------------------------------------------

1x Courtland Leighton 4 dom for pre Ventrue:1
1x Earl 4 dom for pot Ventrue:3
1x Elena Gutierrez 4 aus dom pre Ventrue:3
1x Robin Withers 4 dom obf pre Ventrue:4
1x Violette Prentiss 4 PRE dom Ventrue:1
1x Diana Vick 3 dom pre Ventrue:3
1x Gideon Fontaine 3 PRE Ventrue:1
1x Itzahk Levine 3 cel pre Ventrue:2
1x Lana Butcher 3 dom for Ventrue:3
1x Roland Loussarian 3 for pre Ventrue:1
1x Rufina Soledad 2 for Ventrue:1
1x Antoinette DuChamp 1 cel pre Caitiff:2

Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (17 cards)
5 Blood Doll
4 Hostile Takeover
6 Presence
1 Ventrue Directorate Assembly
1 Ventrue Headquarters


Action Modifier (24 cards)
4 Awe
10 Bewitching Oration
10 Voter Captivation


Political Action (26 cards)
4 Consanguineous Boon
14 Kine Resources Contested
1 Peace Treaty
1 Praxis Seizure: Amsterdam
1 Praxis Seizure: Athens
1 Praxis Seizure: Atlanta
1 Praxis Seizure: Barcelona
1 Praxis Seizure: Berlin
1 Sabbat Threat
1 Ventrue Justicar


Reaction (16 cards)
8 Deflection
8 Wake with Evening's Freshness


Combat (7 cards)
7 Majesty


This deck is amazingly fast. Overwhelms its prey by force of numbers and
has been shown to be able to out action a intercept wall predator and a
casual vote prey (using 2nds). It cycles very fast. Eliminating any one or
two vampires doesn't slow it down at all. Discarding excess Masters is a
nessasary evil, but you do get to choose the proper master to play each
Master Phase.

--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp

 

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Slytherin wrote:
> Whilst not strictly broken, Mata Hari and Ian Forestal in the same deck
> would give the option of playing (I believe) any single card in the
> entire game.

Except cards that require titles or Black Hand.

--Colin McGuigan

 

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"Colin McGuigan" <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:mNWdnSrBI9UnOaTfRVn-iA@speakeasy.net...
> Slytherin wrote:
> > Whilst not strictly broken, Mata Hari and Ian Forestal in the same deck
> > would give the option of playing (I believe) any single card in the
> > entire game.
>
> Except cards that require titles or Black Hand.

Well, specific titles, yeah. Mata meets the generic "titled" requirement.

Or Seraph, Anarch, Flight, capacity less than 7 (Atonement,
Thin-Blooded Seer), or "same circle".

(or Priority Shift or Red List or Trumped-Up Charges, due to the
particular combination of requirements)

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (Remove spam trap to reply).
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

 

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LSJ wrote:

> "Colin McGuigan" <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:mNWdnSrBI9UnOaTfRVn-iA@speakeasy.net...
>
>>Slytherin wrote:
>>
>>>Whilst not strictly broken, Mata Hari and Ian Forestal in the same deck
>>>would give the option of playing (I believe) any single card in the
>>>entire game.
>>
>>Except cards that require titles or Black Hand.
>
>
> Well, specific titles, yeah. Mata meets the generic "titled" requirement.
>
> Or Seraph, Anarch, Flight, capacity less than 7 (Atonement,
> Thin-Blooded Seer), or "same circle".
>
> (or Priority Shift or Red List or Trumped-Up Charges, due to the
> particular combination of requirements)

Also the many "requires an infernal vampire" cards.

Oh, and "Becoming of Ennoia". =P

--Colin McGuigan

 

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Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005, Lucas Linard wrote:
>
> > Hi, Can anyone who reads this post one example of a "broken" crypt
> > with NO GROUP RULES.
> > Here in Fortaleza we're trying to convince the ´players to use the
> > group rule. so this can help a lot.
>

> You can look up the rest yourself. The benefit to a clan-based
weenie
> vote deck is obvious.

Similarly, a deck built roughly as follows is very harsh:

12 Smallest nosferatu.

15 Kindred Intelligence
15 Computer Hacking
15 (assorted [obf] +1 Stealth cards)
5 Psychic Veil
5 Tribute to the Master
2 Secret Library of Alexandria
3 Destructive Secrets.

Banzai!

With the grouping rule, you cannot make '12 smallest nosferatu' all
unique without including a 6-cap and a couple of 5's, or having to
include vampires from another clan.

Without the grouping rule, this crypt only has 3 vampires that are
4-cap; the other 9 are 2-or-3-caps only. Which is a HUGE difference to
how fast such a deck as this can get rolling.

> Matt Morgan

-John Flournoy

 

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"Colin McGuigan" <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:OuCdnTwF7opYNqTfRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net...
> LSJ wrote:
>
> > "Colin McGuigan" <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:mNWdnSrBI9UnOaTfRVn-iA@speakeasy.net...
> >
> >>Slytherin wrote:
> >>
> >>>Whilst not strictly broken, Mata Hari and Ian Forestal in the same deck
> >>>would give the option of playing (I believe) any single card in the
> >>>entire game.
> >>
> >>Except cards that require titles or Black Hand.
> >
> >
> > Well, specific titles, yeah. Mata meets the generic "titled" requirement.
> >
> > Or Seraph, Anarch, Flight, capacity less than 7 (Atonement,
> > Thin-Blooded Seer), or "same circle".
> >
> > (or Priority Shift or Red List or Trumped-Up Charges, due to the
> > particular combination of requirements)
>
> Also the many "requires an infernal vampire" cards.

Each of which has a non-infernal outferior, so Ian could still
play the "card".

> Oh, and "Becoming of Ennoia". =P

Oh yeah, the "requires other stuff in play" cards. Good catch.

--
LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (Remove spam trap to reply).
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

LSJ wrote:
> "Colin McGuigan" <maguaSPAM@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:OuCdnTwF7opYNqTfRVn-oQ@speakeasy.net...
>>Also the many "requires an infernal vampire" cards.
>
> Each of which has a non-infernal outferior, so Ian could still
> play the "card".

Contagion. Ok, so one, not many, but still...

--Colin McGuigan