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So what's the popular view on Gygax?

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Anonymous
August 29, 2005 5:16:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?

Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
large pink organ of phallic dimensions.

More about : popular view gygax

Anonymous
August 29, 2005 5:36:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?

Yes.


--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
August 29, 2005 7:30:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>
> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
> large pink organ of phallic dimensions.

He's very divisive. Basically, he pioneered the "DM is God, and should
demonstrate this by screwing the players whenever possible" style of
gaming. His adventure modules almost invariably have unfair, instakill
traps, many of them undetectable.

Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.

But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
topics around here. :) 

Laszlo
Related resources
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 12:27:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ian R Malcomson wrote:
> In message <1125354635.747252.54700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> chaoslight@gmail.com writes
>
> Untrue - blatantly so, if you read the adventures he wrote and the
> various accounts of the games he was involved in (Sorcerer's Scroll
> etc.) with more than an ounce of applied intelligence. He pioneered a
> DM methodology that challenged *players* (rather than characters) in
> problem solving within adventure design, and acted as a neutral arbiter
> during play (occasionally viciously so). Heck, he pioneered DMing full
> stop. The current apparent design philosophy is to challenge
> *characters*, and to DM in a way that, if anything, slants a bias
> towards PCs.
>
> Even the traps in the notorious Tomb of Horrors can be circumvented by
> clever players. The emphasis of 3E takes the game away from the players
> towards the characters (viz, players can rely more on the intelligence -
> skills, if you will - of their characters, more than their own
> problem-solving capabilities).
>
> >Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
> >different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.
>
> The role of the DM in 3E is different than it was. But to call those
> days of yore "bad" is to completely deny that a heck of a lot of us had
> a heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time before "modern takes"
> appeared.
>
> >But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
> >whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
> >topics around here. :) 
>
> There's a significant group who missed the point then, and continue to
> miss the point now - that's the nutshell "bad days/good days" concept.
>

Wow. That's the most lucid, logical (and polite!) argument in favor of
that style of gaming I think I've seen.

Nazi.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 1:40:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Telendil Silverleaf" <michael.hofer@civigenics.com> wrote in message
news:1125346615.073931.7620@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?

A little of "all of the above."

> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
> large pink organ of phallic dimensions.

He certainly comes off that way in many of his interviews. I do not like
his style much, but I give him props as one of the founders of the game.
The game *has* clearly grown beyond him, and of course, that is a good
thing. We now have *many* ways of playing that were not readily available
before.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 3:10:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

> Nazi.

LET'S ALL QUIT THIS THREAD! GODWIN'S LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN!

Naw really though.

Still, you are a big retard for resorting to such language.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 3:14:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

I'm wondering, which of you are willing to help me out with a kind of
dnd conversion, which is really a new game altogether?
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 4:49:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In message <1125354635.747252.54700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
chaoslight@gmail.com writes
>
>Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>>
>> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
>> large pink organ of phallic dimensions.
>
>He's very divisive. Basically, he pioneered the "DM is God, and should
>demonstrate this by screwing the players whenever possible" style of
>gaming. His adventure modules almost invariably have unfair, instakill
>traps, many of them undetectable.

Untrue - blatantly so, if you read the adventures he wrote and the
various accounts of the games he was involved in (Sorcerer's Scroll
etc.) with more than an ounce of applied intelligence. He pioneered a
DM methodology that challenged *players* (rather than characters) in
problem solving within adventure design, and acted as a neutral arbiter
during play (occasionally viciously so). Heck, he pioneered DMing full
stop. The current apparent design philosophy is to challenge
*characters*, and to DM in a way that, if anything, slants a bias
towards PCs.

Even the traps in the notorious Tomb of Horrors can be circumvented by
clever players. The emphasis of 3E takes the game away from the players
towards the characters (viz, players can rely more on the intelligence -
skills, if you will - of their characters, more than their own
problem-solving capabilities).

>Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
>different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.

The role of the DM in 3E is different than it was. But to call those
days of yore "bad" is to completely deny that a heck of a lot of us had
a heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time before "modern takes"
appeared.

>But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
>whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
>topics around here. :) 

There's a significant group who missed the point then, and continue to
miss the point now - that's the nutshell "bad days/good days" concept.

--
Ian R Malcomson
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 4:55:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ian R Malcomson wrote:
>
> Even the traps in the notorious Tomb of Horrors can be circumvented by
> clever players.

Sure. They just have to be clever enough to "think outside the box", as
it were, and read the module when the DM goes to the bathroom.

There are traps in there which will 100% kill PCs that act (as they
should) like heroes. There are also traps that cannot be detected, and
must be evaded through sheer luck.

> >Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
> >different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.
>
> The role of the DM in 3E is different than it was. But to call those
> days of yore "bad" is to completely deny that a heck of a lot of us had
> a heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time before "modern takes"
> appeared.

Like I said, one of the big flamewar topics around here.

Laszlo
August 30, 2005 5:05:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ian R Malcomson wrote:

> >He's very divisive.

Yes. This has led to a minority of hardcore Gygaxians defending his
legacy, facing off against a larger group that has learned to despise
him.


> He pioneered a
> DM methodology that challenged *players* (rather than characters) in
> problem solving within adventure design, and acted as a neutral arbiter
> during play (occasionally viciously so). Heck, he pioneered DMing full
> stop.

Hrm. I'd say it's a little more complicated than that.

One, if anyone deserves the title "first DM", it's Dave Arneson, not
Gary.

Two, that said, yes he did pioneer all sorts of stuff. His were the
first /immersive/ role-playing adventures. That is, Gygax expected
players to engage fully with the game in a way that you wouldn't with,
say, a boardgame. This has been the norm for 30 years now, so we've
forgotten what a huge advance it was at the time.

About 2/3 of the key elements of modern D&D are Gygax's. Hit dice.
Levels. The concept of rolling a die to hit against armor class.
(Arneson claims this too, but the evidence supports Gary.) Alignment.
The "Vancian" magic system.

And, as you say, the concept of the role of DM. Arneson saw the DM as
more of a referee in an old-fashioned miniatures campaign. Gygax was
the first to realize that the DM could (1) create a fully realized
fantasy world, and (2) "push back" at the players, challenging them
with unexpected encounters, puzzles, traps, and things that were just
completely 'out of the box' from a board-game POV. Gygax arguably made
the key breakthrough to a simulationist view of RPGing.

The industry owes him a huge debt. He does seem to be a bit of a
pompous ass, but OTOH we could have done worse. Much, much worse.

Final thought: Gygax went through phases. He didn't stay fixed in his
opinions over 35 years. IMS he had a lot of ups and downs in both his
personal and professional lives over that period. In his public
persona, he varied from totally obnoxious and unbearable -- especially
during his THESE ARE THE RULES, OBEY THEM period in the late '70s and
early '80s -- to surprisingly flexible and generous.

His views on a lot of things evolved over time. In the '70s he was a
pretty unabashed sexist pig -- "A woman's place in gaming is bringing
the snacks to the gaming table", type of thing. (No, he never actually
said that, but close enough.) He's mellowed a lot since then... see,
for instance, his friendly and pleasant interview in 2000 with
womengamers.com.

Again, we could have done much worse.


> The role of the DM in 3E is different than it was. But to call those
> days of yore "bad" is to completely deny that a heck of a lot of us had
> a heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time before "modern takes"
> appeared.

True. Most people (not all, just most) find 1e unplayable now that
we've played 3.x. But that doesn't mean we didn't have, as you say, a
heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time with 1e.

Waldo
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:22:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:

> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>
> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a...

Well... you just proved beyond a reason of a doubt, that you're a
total retard.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:22:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dirk Collins" <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in message
news:biQQe.3935$_84.1757@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>
>> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>>
>> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a...
>
> Well... you just proved beyond a reason of a doubt, that you're a total
> retard.

Don't listen to Dirk. Someone is home, but the porch light is out.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:36:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:

> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>>I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>>community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>
> He's very divisive. Basically, he pioneered the "DM is God, and should
> demonstrate this by screwing the players whenever possible" style of
> gaming. His adventure modules almost invariably have unfair, instakill
> traps, many of them undetectable.

He did not. It's not his fault that many other GM's and players
lacked imagination and had even less initiative to improve the game.

> Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
> different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.

Yeah! Roleplaying has been changed into a win-lose proposition,
instead of a win-win proposition for both the players and GM. The
time it takes without good software to prep a fun game is
excrutiating, and storytelling and heroics have been sacrificed in
favor of repetitive mechanics and a mind boggling array of
choices. The Winners; Those you spend the money and take the time
to memorize every arcane rule, optional rule, and variation
thereof. The Losers; The folks that want a simple fun game that
can be played to a reasonable conclusion in just one evening.

>
> But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
> whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
> topics around here. :) 

Naw. There are a few new ways that are really interesting... C&C,
Some of the Green Ronin publications, Spycraft, and Fudge OGL for
example. I'll still play or GM a home grown 0D&D game anytime though.

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:41:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

No 33 Secretary wrote:

> Many of us never had the bad old days. We though Gygax was a pompous prick
> then, too.

I didn't like chamber of horrors, and shrine of the kua-toa either
(Don't know what hand EGG had in the latter, if any). Most of the
rest was just peachy though.

You don't like any of the d20 Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds volumes
published by the Troll Lords?

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:46:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ian R Malcomson wrote:

> Untrue - blatantly so, if you read the adventures he wrote and the
> various accounts of the games he was involved in (Sorcerer's Scroll
> etc.) with more than an ounce of applied intelligence. He pioneered a
> DM methodology that challenged *players* (rather than characters) in
> problem solving within adventure design, and acted as a neutral arbiter
> during play (occasionally viciously so). Heck, he pioneered DMing full
> stop. The current apparent design philosophy is to challenge
> *characters*, and to DM in a way that, if anything, slants a bias
> towards PCs.

Makes the game grow for vets, but not for newbies.

>
> Even the traps in the notorious Tomb of Horrors can be circumvented by
> clever players. The emphasis of 3E takes the game away from the players
> towards the characters (viz, players can rely more on the intelligence -
> skills, if you will - of their characters, more than their own
> problem-solving capabilities).

and...

> The role of the DM in 3E is different than it was. But to call those
> days of yore "bad" is to completely deny that a heck of a lot of us had
> a heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time before "modern takes"
> appeared.

and...

> There's a significant group who missed the point then, and continue to
> miss the point now - that's the nutshell "bad days/good days" concept.
>

Well... I happen to agree on all these major points. We had fun
with making new rules to improve the game, and making sessions a
good fit for the players at the table. In making up good epic
stories, and in seeing epic stories created by the players at the
table.

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 7:48:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

quuxa23@yahoo.com wrote:

> Ian R Malcomson wrote:
>
>>In message <1125354635.747252.54700@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
>>chaoslight@gmail.com writes
>>
>>Untrue - blatantly so, if you read the adventures he wrote and the
>>various accounts of the games he was involved in (Sorcerer's Scroll
>>etc.) with more than an ounce of applied intelligence. He pioneered a
>>DM methodology that challenged *players* (rather than characters) in
>>problem solving within adventure design, and acted as a neutral arbiter
>>during play (occasionally viciously so). Heck, he pioneered DMing full
>>stop. The current apparent design philosophy is to challenge
>>*characters*, and to DM in a way that, if anything, slants a bias
>>towards PCs.
>>
>>Even the traps in the notorious Tomb of Horrors can be circumvented by
>>clever players. The emphasis of 3E takes the game away from the players
>>towards the characters (viz, players can rely more on the intelligence -
>>skills, if you will - of their characters, more than their own
>>problem-solving capabilities).
>>
>>
>>>Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
>>>different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.
>>
>>The role of the DM in 3E is different than it was. But to call those
>>days of yore "bad" is to completely deny that a heck of a lot of us had
>>a heck of a lot of fun for a heck of a long time before "modern takes"
>>appeared.
>>
>>
>>>But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
>>>whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
>>>topics around here. :) 
>>
>>There's a significant group who missed the point then, and continue to
>>miss the point now - that's the nutshell "bad days/good days" concept.
>>
>
> Wow. That's the most lucid, logical (and polite!) argument in favor of
> that style of gaming I think I've seen.
>
> Nazi.

See. You missed the point, yet again. Try harder... cogitate some
more.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 9:54:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

My throw on the Gygax thing would be

yes... we owe him a lot for the early development of RPG's (etc)

but

It always got to me a bit (even when I was reading the then brand new
1st ed DMG as a youngster) that his words didn't match his actions. In
dragon mag and running through the rule books was a smug line of "some
people run monty haul campaigns" with characters "decked out like
christmas trees of magic items" (actual qoute I believe from mem)

Also he stressed that dungs should not be random collections of
beasts.. But then - check out some of his designs - HUGE amounts of
magic treasure, loads of critters mixed up and always..

"There are xxx stoneroper bards playing dice, they look up and attack"
and
The creatures with xxx special attack (eg petrifcation) will always
have a xxx curing potion or scroll in its treasure.

Also he had something pervy going on about pole arms and owlbears
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 10:13:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Starbles@Earthlink.net wrote:
> > Nazi.
>
> LET'S ALL QUIT THIS THREAD! GODWIN'S LAW HAS BEEN BROKEN!
>
> Naw really though.
>
> Still, you are a big retard for resorting to such language.

Main Entry: satire
Pronunciation: 'sa-"tIr
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin satura,
satira, perhaps from (lanx) satura dish of mixed ingredients, from
feminine of satur well-fed; akin to Latin satis.
2 : trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm used to expose and discredit vice
or folly
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 10:20:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Noted. He seems to have completely missed the point of the post. The
operative phrase was "seems to indicate", not "I firmly believe."
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 10:24:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D. I didn't even KNOW there
was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago. And then, when I
read about Gygax in the forums, there USUALLY (but not always) seems to
be a great deal of ire and venom directed at him.

So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.
I'd rather form my own opinion of him (if I even do so) by gathering
input from lots of people. (Ideally, you'd meet the guy and form it
from first-hand evidence, but that's not likely going to happen any
time soon.) That seems more preferable to me than sitting alone in my
room, and just arbitrarily deciding that I do or don't like the guy,
and that's that.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 11:35:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
> respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D. I didn't even KNOW there
> was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago. And then, when I
> read about Gygax in the forums, there USUALLY (but not always) seems to
> be a great deal of ire and venom directed at him.

You came pretty close to answering your own question, there. People
who can't stand Gygax come by their opinions in a variety of ways, but
one of the reasons for the venom may stem from the popular conception
that he is *the* inventor of D&D, and thus the "father" of what we
consider modern RPGs. The fact that Dave Arneson (at least as
responsible for the game's creation as Gary) goes all but unnoticed by
many fans and the media tends to get under the skin of folks who
understand and care about that sort of thing.

>
> So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.

Personally, I'm rather ambivalent about the man. He's notable for his
role in the origins of the hobby, and for some rather entertaining
turns of phrase in the D&D/AD&D1 books, but that's about it for me.

--
Jay Knioum
The Mad Afro
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 2:29:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> Ian R Malcomson wrote:
> >
> > Even the traps in the notorious Tomb of Horrors can be circumvented by
> > clever players.
>
> Sure. They just have to be clever enough to "think outside the box", as
> it were, and read the module when the DM goes to the bathroom.
>

I ran it once at a convention. It ended in a TPK--but that was
mostly because the players just would not quit monkeying with
the traps. Most of the kills were of the "Ooh! I wonder what
*this* button does!" type. A complete refusal to take any
divination spells didn't help.

Granted, in many modules of the time you were *supposed* to
pull any big red shiny levers you found.
August 30, 2005 4:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
> respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D.

He deserves a certain amount of respect.


> I didn't even KNOW there
> was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago.

Well, yeah, and that's a big part of the problem. Gygax had -- still
has -- a pretty big ego, and quite deliberately shoved Arneson aside
and grabbed as much glory as possible. Sort of like a Newton and
Hooke, Edison and Tesla kind of thing.

Mind you, this was a pretty damn effective strategy in terms of
maximizing Gygaxian income and personal status. Most people think he
is the sole inventor of D&D (not on this forum, but the much larger
group with just casual knowledge of the history of the hobby).

But, let's face it -- a lot of great innovators are obnoxious,
egotistical jerks. That doesn't mean they aren't also great
innovators.


> So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.

Well, you have my opinion: kind of a jerk, and not everything he's
tried to claim he is, but a hugely important figure nonetheless.

Waldo
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 8:57:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?

Yes.

Gygax tends to create powerful responses: There are those who revere
him for his role in shaping their formative years and creating their
favorite pasttime. There are those who revile him for (a) poor design
skills; (b) his god-like ego; (c) stealing credit from Dave Arneson;
and (d) Cyborg Commando.

Personally, I respect him for his design skills (a praise which must be
tempered with a strong critique for his ability to selectively edit hs
own work). I think his active effort to diminish Dave Arneson's
contribution to D&D (when he wasn't ignoring him outright) is
contemptible. I find his insistence that his style of play is endorsed
by Divine Writ to be tedious.

--
Justin Alexander Bacon
http://www.thealexandrian.net
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 9:26:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?

Yes.

> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
> large pink organ of phallic dimensions.
>

The same could be said of the current President. As always, opinions
vary by person and are ultimately valueless in that regard.
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 11:05:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>
>>I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>>community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>>
>>Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
>>large pink organ of phallic dimensions.
>
>
> He's very divisive. Basically, he pioneered the "DM is God, and should
> demonstrate this by screwing the players whenever possible" style of
> gaming. His adventure modules almost invariably have unfair, instakill
> traps, many of them undetectable.
>
> Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
> different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.
>
> But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
> whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
> topics around here. :) 

In other words, some people (pussies) didn't like Gygax because they
might LOSE a CHARACTER!!!

Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.

- Ron ^*^
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:10:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
> respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D. I didn't even KNOW there
> was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago. And then, when I
> read about Gygax in the forums, there USUALLY (but not always) seems to
> be a great deal of ire and venom directed at him.

You could say the same about MSB.

> So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.
> I'd rather form my own opinion of him (if I even do so) by gathering
> input from lots of people. (Ideally, you'd meet the guy and form it
> from first-hand evidence, but that's not likely going to happen any
> time soon.) That seems more preferable to me than sitting alone in my
> room, and just arbitrarily deciding that I do or don't like the guy,
> and that's that.
>

The problem with that is you're basing your opinion on what other people
think and not what you think. This can lead to all sorts of problem,
particularly if, for example, a lot of people mistakenly think you're a
terrorist when you're not:

http://mediachannel.org/blog/node/760
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:23:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins wrote:
> Ian R Malcomson wrote:
>
> > Waldo <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> writes:
> >> (As opposed to, say, the weirdness with polearms. That was all Gary.)
>
> > When it was a Dragon article, the "Nomeclature of Polearms" was a
> > relatively interesting read. When it made it into the UA, you just
> > *knew* there was a weird fetish going on there...
>
> It continues... It made the "World Builder" guide too. In the
> Appendices, Appendix A, the Random weapons chart has more
> different types of polearms listed, than sword, and sword-like
> weapons.
>
> Historically (real-life type), I'm not quite inclined to believe
> that more variations of polearms were created than swords, and
> sword-type weapons over the ages.

FWIW, the book _Weapons: An International Encyclopedia From 5000 BC To
2000 AD_ (The Diagram Group, St. Martin's Press, 1990) devotes 22 pages
to swords and only 8 to polearms (although about 8 pages of swords were
post-Medieval).

Brandon
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:23:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Some Guy" <someguy@thedoor.gov> wrote in message
news:fP6Re.1915$mH.1598@fed1read07...
>> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
>> large pink organ of phallic dimensions.
>>
>
> The same could be said of the current President. As always, opinions vary
> by person and are ultimately valueless in that regard.

Noted. (And supported.)
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:41:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf <michael.hofer@civigenics.com> writes
>See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
>respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D. I didn't even KNOW there
>was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago. And then, when I
>read about Gygax in the forums, there USUALLY (but not always) seems to
>be a great deal of ire and venom directed at him.
>
>So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.
>I'd rather form my own opinion of him (if I even do so) by gathering
>input from lots of people. (Ideally, you'd meet the guy and form it
>from first-hand evidence, but that's not likely going to happen any
>time soon.) That seems more preferable to me than sitting alone in my
>room, and just arbitrarily deciding that I do or don't like the guy,
>and that's that.

I've met him a couple of times, both because we were locked behind
stalls at conventions in buildings with no-smoking policies, so those of
us with nicotine habits (myself and Gygax included) tended to sneak off
every now and then to a quiet corner of a car park.

I don't like everything he's written, and I don't agree with everything
he's said over the years in interviews and magazine columns, but
speaking to him gave to me the general impression that his overall
attitude to games is one I can hold a torch for. That is, they're meant
to be fun, and if whatever you're doing with a game is creating fun for
those gathered around your table, you're not doing anything wrong.

Note that he didn't specifically *say* that - it's the impression I got
from talking to him. Before meeting him, he was just another name on
the covers of my gaming books, that also turned up in magazines
authoring articles I either enjoyed, skipped over, or cringed at.

Oh, and he signs "May all your adventures be magical ones". Indeed :) 

--
Ian R Malcomson
"Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box"
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:45:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Werebat wrote:
>
>
> chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>>
>>> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>>> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>>>
>>> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a
>>> large pink organ of phallic dimensions.
>>
>>
>>
>> He's very divisive. Basically, he pioneered the "DM is God, and should
>> demonstrate this by screwing the players whenever possible" style of
>> gaming. His adventure modules almost invariably have unfair, instakill
>> traps, many of them undetectable.
>>
>> Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
>> different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.
>>
>> But there is a significant minority who _like_ the old ways, for
>> whatever reason. And that, in a nutshell, is one of the big flamewar
>> topics around here. :) 
>
>
> In other words, some people (pussies) didn't like Gygax because they
> might LOSE a CHARACTER!!!
>
> Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.
>
> - Ron ^*^
>

"Are you a manly man? Can you take it like a man?"

http://tinyurl.com/79g2o
August 31, 2005 2:54:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 03:36:31 GMT, Dirk Collins
<dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> dared speak in front of ME:

>chaoslight@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>>>I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>>>community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>>
>> He's very divisive. Basically, he pioneered the "DM is God, and should
>> demonstrate this by screwing the players whenever possible" style of
>> gaming. His adventure modules almost invariably have unfair, instakill
>> traps, many of them undetectable.
>
>He did not. It's not his fault that many other GM's and players
>lacked imagination and had even less initiative to improve the game.
>
>> Gaming has passed him by. Modern takes on the role of the DM are very
>> different, and most of us have no wish to return to the bad old days.
>
>Yeah! Roleplaying has been changed into a win-lose proposition,
>instead of a win-win proposition for both the players and GM. The
>time it takes without good software to prep a fun game is
>excrutiating,

You're doing it wrong.

--
The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out
the conservative adopts them.
Samuel Clemens, "Notebook," 1935
August 31, 2005 2:54:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> dared
speak in front of ME:

>Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.

Up the rear from a dominatrix with a strap-on?

--
The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out
the conservative adopts them.
Samuel Clemens, "Notebook," 1935
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 2:54:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Kaos wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> dared
> speak in front of ME:
>
>
>>Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.
>
>
> Up the rear from a dominatrix with a strap-on?
>

Ah, porn. Enjoy it while you can, because the buttholes in Ohio who put
President Stupid back in office have also wreaked this on us:

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1125318960389&rss...

But then, with 1 in 5 American adults thinking the Sun revolves around
the Earth, what do you expect?

http://tinyurl.com/cszwx
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:51:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Terry Austin wrote:
> Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
>>You don't like any of the d20 Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds volumes
>>published by the Troll Lords?
>
> I dislike Gygax, and
> the gaming philosophy he stands for. Have for a long, long time. When I
> started gaming, Dungeons & Dragons didn't have "Advanced" (or anything
> else) in front of it. It was three little digest sized books, plus a couple
> of supplements.

The three books, along with the four supplements, and Chainmail
are sitting right here on my desk shelf. At gaming conventions I
still GM a 0D&D round every time I attend.

What RPG's do you GM or play these days?

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 6:29:42 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

One of the voices in my head - or was it Justin Bacon? - just said...
> Gygax tends to create powerful responses: There are those who revere
> him for his role in shaping their formative years and creating their
> favorite pasttime. There are those who revile him for (a) poor design
> skills; (b) his god-like ego; (c) stealing credit from Dave Arneson;
> and (d) Cyborg Commando.

Don't forget (e) his writing style.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 6:48:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Telendil Silverleaf wrote:

> See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
> respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D. I didn't even KNOW there
> was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago. And then, when I
> read about Gygax in the forums, there USUALLY (but not always) seems to
> be a great deal of ire and venom directed at him.

This appears to be a common behavioral trait of RPG gamers in
general, and not just with EGG, and uh, also with wargamers as
well. Part of it, is that if there any grounds at all for a
disagreement to occur over rules, each player will take a
polarized view in order to "break" the system. Presumably this
leads to better gaming systems, however, I haven't seen a system
yet that has the flexibility to do away with the GM or a referee
of some sort.

> So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.
> I'd rather form my own opinion of him (if I even do so) by gathering
> input from lots of people. (Ideally, you'd meet the guy and form it
> from first-hand evidence, but that's not likely going to happen any
> time soon.) That seems more preferable to me than sitting alone in my
> room, and just arbitrarily deciding that I do or don't like the guy,
> and that's that.

He was overextending himself to meet all his gaming agreements and
obligations. Last year, he had a heart attack and was
hospitalized, around May, I think. He recovered well enough, but
with the brush with the grim reaper, he has re-aligned his
priorities somewhat, and focusing more on his family. I don't
think he travels as much as he used to. I heard or read somewhere
that he gave up smoking too. He attended and GM'ed at the
Milwaukee Gamefest this year, and another smaller con, The Lake
Geneva Gaming convention.

The recent d20 books he has edited and co-authored are detail
oriented works for GM's that include lists, tables, generators,
definitions, and illustrations that a GM can use to describe the
people, places, and things in any fantasy world to provide the
suspension of disbelief that all players need to immerse
themselves in the game.

In addition, with the wealth of detail provided, these d20 books
aid players and GM's in arbitrating disputes (Very common in
gaming) to a satisfactory conclusion. It's an excellent series, I
have two of the six books published to date, "World Builder" and
"Extraordinary Book of Names", and am looking to acquire all the
rest, with the possible exception of "Thieves Cant".

Living Fantasy, Insidae, and Nation Builder being the other
published works of this series. A seventh book is on the drawing
board, "Essential Places", and that'll probably go on my buy list
as well. Being d20 system books, they'll work with D&D, but they
are written well enough to be used with just about any RPG.

In addition, He's published an entirely new fantasy RPG, Lejendary
Adventures. I don't have much experience with this, so am unable
to comment on that at this time.

Do I like him? Yeah! He brought one of the best games of our age
into my home, to my friends, and he continues to contribute to
gaming in a positive manner when many other GM's and authors have
turned their back on the fans and the industry as a whole. He did
this, in spite of all the ire and venom directed at him which is
commendable.

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 6:58:29 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Ian R Malcomson wrote:

> Waldo <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> writes:
>> (As opposed to, say, the weirdness with polearms. That was all Gary.)

> When it was a Dragon article, the "Nomeclature of Polearms" was a
> relatively interesting read. When it made it into the UA, you just
> *knew* there was a weird fetish going on there...

It continues... It made the "World Builder" guide too. In the
Appendices, Appendix A, the Random weapons chart has more
different types of polearms listed, than sword, and sword-like
weapons.

Historically (real-life type), I'm not quite inclined to believe
that more variations of polearms were created than swords, and
sword-type weapons over the ages.

Re,
Dirk
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 7:34:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in
news:M28Re.4847$FW1.1310@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> Terry Austin wrote:
>> Dirk Collins <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote:
>>>You don't like any of the d20 Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds volumes
>>>published by the Troll Lords?
>>
>> I dislike Gygax, and
>> the gaming philosophy he stands for. Have for a long, long time. When
>> I started gaming, Dungeons & Dragons didn't have "Advanced" (or
>> anything else) in front of it. It was three little digest sized
>> books, plus a couple of supplements.
>
> The three books, along with the four supplements, and Chainmail
> are sitting right here on my desk shelf. At gaming conventions I
> still GM a 0D&D round every time I attend.
>
> What RPG's do you GM or play these days?
>
Hero, mostly.

--
Terry Austin
http://www.hyperbooks.com/
Campaign Cartographer Now Available
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 1:50:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On 30 Aug 2005 12:21:32 -0700, "Waldo" <peggoliathy@yahoo.com> carved
upon a tablet of ether:

> You'll notice that when Gygax went back to writing modules in the '90s,
> he didn't have too many of these. His Necropolis, for instance, has
> only a couple of them, and that's not grossly unreasonable given what
> it is. So I'm inclined to blame this more on the period than on Gygax.

I remember more than a few in Necropolis, and Gary went to great
lengths explaining that they were absolutely undetectable. When I ran
it I experienced a player revolt over one of them.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
August 31, 2005 2:09:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

>> > Hey! B3 is pretty weak, but B2 is a solid adventure. The best in the
>> > line has to be B4, though.
>>
>> I always liked B5 & B6.
>
> B6 is damn good and B10, loose and unstructured though it may be, is
> probably my favorite published adventure, ever. But by then Gygax had
> little if anything to do with it.

B10 is my favourite too (this is Night's Dark Terror, right?). If you
haven't seen it, it's a must check out.

It's greatest strength (among others) is the presentation of a loosely
linear multi-faceted long quest that takes you inside, outside, to the city,
to ruins, to the woods, to the mountains, includes some mass combat,
negotiation, minor but interesting encounters, fully fleshed out optional
side treks ... all while dropping hints and references to the main quest
within a consistent and interesting little world.

And it's for levels 2-4.

Other titles by the authors (Jim Bambra + one other) are good too.

Spinner
August 31, 2005 4:53:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:50:53 -0700, Some Guy <someguy@thedoor.gov>
dared speak in front of ME:

>Kaos wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> dared
>> speak in front of ME:
>>
>>
>>>Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.
>>
>> Up the rear from a dominatrix with a strap-on?
>
>Ah, porn.

Who's talking about porn here? I've got the handcuffs, the gag and
the strap-on. Bend over, let's have some fun.

>Enjoy it while you can, because the buttholes in Ohio who put
>President Stupid back in office have also wreaked this on us:
>
>http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1125318960389&rss...

And did you look at the dweeb in question? Talk about
self-destructive behaviour, he's chopping off his only plausible
outlet...
--
The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out
the conservative adopts them.
Samuel Clemens, "Notebook," 1935
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:10:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Some Guy" <someguy@thedoor.gov> wrote in message
news:1zbRe.1948$mH.1124@fed1read07...
> Kaos wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> dared
>> speak in front of ME:
>>
>>
>>>Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.
>>
>>
>> Up the rear from a dominatrix with a strap-on?
>>
>
> Ah, porn. Enjoy it while you can, because the buttholes in Ohio who put
> President Stupid back in office have also wreaked this on us:
>
> http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1125318960389&rss...
>
> But then, with 1 in 5 American adults thinking the Sun revolves around the
> Earth, what do you expect?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/cszwx

You've got to be kidding. No--wait, I retract that. Ever since the talking
monkey has taken office, civil liberties have been eroded to the
pre-Stonewall era and McCarthyism has been reinstated. In yet another
senseless act of immeasurable stupidity, he has gradually eroded the line
between church and state. And we're not even going to talk about him LYING
to the country and the world about why he was going to war with Iraq, and
sending all those troops to actively wrest control from a soverign nation
that had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. That's a completely separate
thread.

So, yeah. I'm not surprised.

But now I know where all my savings are going. <smirk> I'm gonna need a
bigger porn closet.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:11:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Kaos" <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in message
news:f91ah1d6lot20thdflahguktc6st29g147@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> dared
> speak in front of ME:
>
>>Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.
>
> Up the rear from a dominatrix with a strap-on?

Who sez it has to be a dominatrix? :0P
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 5:19:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Some Guy" <someguy@thedoor.gov> wrote in message
news:iZaRe.1940$mH.1312@fed1read07...
> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>> See, that's what confuses me. I used to think he was a great guy, and
>> respected him a lot as the inventor of D&D. I didn't even KNOW there
>> was a guy named Dave Arneson until a few months ago. And then, when I
>> read about Gygax in the forums, there USUALLY (but not always) seems to
>> be a great deal of ire and venom directed at him.
>
> You could say the same about MSB.

Heh. No comment.

>> So it would be useful to me to know what people think of him, and why.
>> I'd rather form my own opinion of him (if I even do so) by gathering
>> input from lots of people. (Ideally, you'd meet the guy and form it
>> from first-hand evidence, but that's not likely going to happen any
>> time soon.) That seems more preferable to me than sitting alone in my
>> room, and just arbitrarily deciding that I do or don't like the guy,
>> and that's that.
>>
>
> The problem with that is you're basing your opinion on what other people
> think and not what you think. This can lead to all sorts of problem,
> particularly if, for example, a lot of people mistakenly think you're a
> terrorist when you're not:
>
> http://mediachannel.org/blog/node/760

I don't disagree with you in the slightest. Still, I think that if I formed
an opinion as an intellectual island, I wouldn't be giving dissenting voices
a fair chance. I like to consider myself open-minded. When someone has a
valid point of dissent, I want to hear it. Note that the operative word
there is "valid". I like rational debate. So, I am entertaining the notion
that the opinion that I seem to be forming about him may be flawed; so I'd
like to hear what others think and know of him and WHY. Particularly, I'm
interested in folks' first-hand experiences with him, as opposed to
anecdotal evidence they heard through the grapevine or read in a magazine
somewhere.

Like I said, I always respected him as the creator of D&D; I was thrilled
when I heard that he'd been invited by WotC to take part in developing 3rd
Edition. But now I hear about this Dave Arneson fellow, and wonder how he
could have been overlooked, when the two of them combined their ideas and
produced D&D (over a substantial period of time). (I'm reminded of Stan Lee
hoarding all the attention, so that most folks don't have any idea who the
hell Avi Arad is.) Anyway, I'm always open to changing my mind if I find
that I've held an invalid position.

God knows, I don't want to be anything like a certain closed-minded talking
monkey.
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 6:55:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 02:35:11 GMT, Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org>
carved upon a tablet of ether:

> > I always liked B5 & B6.
>
> B6 is damn good and B10, loose and unstructured though it may be, is
> probably my favorite published adventure, ever. But by then Gygax had
> little if anything to do with it.

I don't think I've ever seen B10. I liked the way B6 combined street
warfare with a bit of detective work and skulking. B5 was nice because
it was a dungeon that vaguely made sense, though I'm not sure an
advanture supposedly suitable to 1-3rd level BD&D characters really
should've had all those ogres. OTOH, it was an effective way of
teaching the ancient art of running away.

--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 8:17:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

David Johnston wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:18:37 GMT, "Kevin Venzke" <stepjakk@yahooo.frr>
> >
> >And what was wrong with Cyborg Commando?
>
> Well, the memories are vague but I do think recall that the heros were
> all identical and the bad guys were all these big blobs who couldn't
> talk and had no personalities. I was never interested enough to try
> out the combat system.

I GMed about six adventures of CC. Only the last had more than one
player, so there was never an "all identical" problem (to be honest, it
probably was no worse than a team of SEALs being "identical").

The dice mechanic, though odd (1d10 * 1d10) was servicable enough. I
don't remember any major problems with the combat system, other than
the general lack of damage values for weapons not carried by a CC or
the aliens.

Anyway, I think the idea of the game was not to discuss late
impressionist painters with the aliens, but to Kill The Bastards!

Brandon
Anonymous
August 31, 2005 10:49:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Kaos <kaos@invalid.xplornet.com> wrote in
news:c0tah1hj4ukvmacllr4net0m721ibc4hlh@4ax.com:

> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 22:50:53 -0700, Some Guy <someguy@thedoor.gov>
> dared speak in front of ME:
>
>>Kaos wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:05:41 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> dared
>>> speak in front of ME:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Some other people are not pussies and can take it like a MAN.
>>>
>>> Up the rear from a dominatrix with a strap-on?
>>
>>Ah, porn.
>
> Who's talking about porn here? I've got the handcuffs, the gag and
> the strap-on. Bend over, let's have some fun.
>
>>Enjoy it while you can, because the buttholes in Ohio who put
>>President Stupid back in office have also wreaked this on us:
>>
>>http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1125318960389&rss...
>
> And did you look at the dweeb in question? Talk about
> self-destructive behaviour, he's chopping off his only plausible
> outlet...

It's not like he'll actually *do* anything anyway. Or that he could, if he
tried. There are no gray areas left in the legalities of porn.

--
"So there is no third law of Terrydynamics."
-- William Hyde
Terry Austin
www.hyperbooks.com
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 12:01:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Dirk Collins" <dirk.collins@Earthlink.Net> wrote in message
news:biQQe.3935$_84.1757@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>
>> I'm kind of confused. Is he universally despised by the gaming
>> community, universally loved, or somewhere in between?
>>
>> Everything I've read about him seems to indicate that he resembles a...
>
> Well... you just proved beyond a reason of a doubt, that you're a total
> retard.

Well then, it's fortunate for me that I don't give a damn about your
opinion. Have fun.
Anonymous
September 1, 2005 1:18:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jeff Heikkinen" <no.way@jose.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d7ed2592df7c3ea98a215@news.easynews.com...
> One of the voices in my head - or was it Justin Bacon? - just said...
>> Gygax tends to create powerful responses: There are those who revere
>> him for his role in shaping their formative years and creating their
>> favorite pasttime. There are those who revile him for (a) poor design
>> skills; (b) his god-like ego; (c) stealing credit from Dave Arneson;
>> and (d) Cyborg Commando.
>
> Don't forget (e) his writing style.

There's something wrong with his writing style?

And what was wrong with Cyborg Commando?

Kevin
!