Best ATI sub $100, plus 8500 questions

[cmp1223]

Ok, This has been discussed many times before, but even after reading past posts it is still confusing. I was set to buy a Sapphire Radeon 9000 Pro 128mb when I started reading about it here. Apparently. many people recommend the 8500 as the 9000 was a budget model. Sadly, they are in very limited supply. I then moved on to the 8500LE, which is worse than a 8500 but some say better than a 9000. Then, there appears to be 8500LEs shipping with slower clock speeds, especially on the 128mb. So, my question is wich do you guys recommend? What about the 9100? I have a 1.4GHz PIII, and am a casual gamer. I don't want to bother with overclocking. Wich is the best sub $100 ATi card? I would presume the 9000 pro, but I want your opinions.

Thanks
-Chris

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cmp1223 on 03/19/03 09:34 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Spitfire_x86]

Buy a Radeon 8500LE (250/250 clocked), if you can't get it, then buy a Radeon 9100 (250/230 clocked; 250/250 clocked is the best, but hard to get. Visiontek makes 250/250 clocked R9100's)

Submit your opinion <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=28537#28537" target="_new"> Should Tom Fire Omid? </A>

 

[cmp1223]

Thanks. Also, are there any Nvidia that come close to ATi in the sub $100 range? All the Geforce 4 are AGP 8x, and I only have 2x. Also, can anyone else comment on the Radeons or now where to buy them? BTW, I'm looking at 128mb models, are the clock speeds and memory speeds the same?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cmp1223 on 03/19/03 10:50 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Nights_L]

Your motherboard supports only AGP 2X??
then I recommend you to upgrade your motherboard first.. cuz Radeon8500/9000/9100, they all support AGP4X, and the performance will be much better than you will have in 2X
for Radeon9100 128MB version, what I know is clocked at 250/200, which is crap. but my friend overclock it to 275/275, and still running fine
I got a Radeon8500LE, clocked at 250/230, I flashed it bios, run it at 250/250, I think the max I can go is around 300/266..not more than that
and I think 8500 is still a better choice than 9000
my 8500LE got 8400 in 3Dmark, one of my friend uses 9000, got around 6000
so..now it's your time to decide

 

[Nights_L]

oh, and yeah, for the Geforce4, if that's the Geforce4 MX, then don't get, they are crap
get Geforce4 Ti series, 4200/4600
they are much much better

 

[phial]

most important thing to note

the 9000pro only has 1 pixel shader, 8500(le) has 2. so if your playing games like UT2003 then the 8500 will perform a-lot better

fillrate wise, they are about equal. but the 8500-9000 series has incredible fillrate anyways. on par with the GF4TI series at least.

the geometry engine of the 9000pro is weaker as well. in THG's review, it says the 9000pro uses technology of the 9700 in its geometry engine and so should be more powerful than the older 8500, but this is also NOT true.
the 8500 does about 75million polygons a second, the 9000pro around 40. big difference, especially in new games where high detailed geometry is used for better visuals, not higher fillrate


the 9000pro is a very misleading product.

 

[cmp1223]

Yes, I'm almost positive my motherboard is limited to 2x AGP. It an old 440bx mobo that i THINK runs APG 1.0, which supports APG 2x. But isn't there a power difference between APG 1.0 and 2.0? Will this card work at 2x on my system? What extent will 2x limit me? Where can I purchase a 8500LE 128mb with a high clock speed?

Thanks
-Chris

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cmp1223 on 03/20/03 01:54 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[Spitfire_x86]

AGP 2x won't limit you much.

Submit your opinion <A HREF="http://forumz.tomshardware.com/community/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=28537#28537" target="_new"> Should Tom Fire Omid? </A>

 

[GeneticWeapon]

The BBA8500LE I bought from Fry's came clocked @250/275 with 3.3ns memory....I heard that these cards were originally meant to be standard 8500's but were sold as LE's for some unspecific reason. If you click on my sig I have an excellent pic of it and you can see the missing ramdac near the GPU....

Pic's of me and my PC...<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/Genetic_Weapon.html" target="_new">http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/Genetic_Weapon.html</A>

 

[phial]

hey genetic weapon, is that your moms dining room your sitting in? LOL!

 

[GeneticWeapon]

(yells) NO IT ISNT!!!.....it's her sitting room. I was having a lan party with my nephew. Me and my girlfriend are living with my parents until we move to Oklahoma....anyways, how could you tell?...that furniture coulda been something that I would have bought!(laughing)

Pic's of me and my PC...<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/Genetic_Weapon.html" target="_new">http://www.lochel.com/THGC/html/Genetic_Weapon.html</A>

 

[jclw]

APG 4x offers no advantage over AGP 2x in a 8500/9000/9100/9200 class card.

I'd suggest an 8500LE clocked at 250/250 or higher. Both my retail BBA 8500LE 128mb cards came clocked at 250/250 with 3.6 Infineon BGA memory, and both do over 300/300.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*

 

[chuck232]

The problem here is it's very hard these days to find a R8500LE that's clocked at 250/250. The places that sell these cards usually never put up clock speeds, so it's basically luck of the draw.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[cmp1223]

SO do guys think it is a problem that I am using AGP 1.0 (I think) that supports 2x? New egg has a 8500LE 128MB here: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=8500le+128 but it states its 250/200 : ( Where can I get a BBA 8500LE?

 

[chuck232]

Whe system have you got? If it's only AGP2X, chances are it's pretty old. Therefore, a R8500LE may be severely bottlenecked.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[cmp1223]

I have an old Dell with a 440BX mobo. SORRY! I just found a pdf on my mobo and it states it IS AGP 2.0, alhough it still doesn't support 4x. I think it should work. Since it is low end, will 4x really make a difference?


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cmp1223 on 03/20/03 10:00 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[chuck232]

I mean what is your CPU speed? If you've got say a Celeron 400, a R8500 won't be great for that system...

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[cmp1223]

I am upgrading my computer. I am updating my PIII 750mHz to a PowerLeap 1.4GHz Tualatin Celeron.

 

[chuck232]

Oh ok..

Well, <A HREF="http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?DEPA=&submit=Go&description=Powercolor+9100+128M" target="_new">this</A> seems pretty good. IT's a R9100 128MB Retail, which is supposedly clocked at 250/250. Same speeds as the R8500 LE. But this card is $107...? I dunno. It's tough finding a card...

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...

 

[cmp1223]

I just found this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3407638368&category=3762 Seems pretty good. Says "built and powered by Ati" I emailed him to make sure. What does it mean by "Bulk pack" and "Brand new OEM" I have seen OEM used different ways. BTW, the 9100 you metioned is a PowerColor, not ATI retail. I can't find the 9100 on the ATi website, is it an official product?

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by cmp1223 on 03/20/03 11:49 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

[jclw]

ATI doesn't make 9100 cards, so you won't find it on their website.

It is getting harder and harder to find decent R200 based cards now, they must have sold most of them by now. I'll keep an eye out for a deal.

*Dual PIII-800 @900 i440BX and Tualeron 1.2 @1.74 i815*

 

[cmp1223]

I think I'll go with the Powercolor 9100 128mb at 250/250 for $107. Also, this is a stupid question, what is flashing the bios? Does this have something to do with overclocking? Will overclocking a Video Card reduce its life span? Many people report overclocking the 9100 to 275/275, but I'm a beginner and don't want to fry my card.

Thanks

 

[chuck232]

The R9100 is just the R8500/LE repackaged basically. So it'll be the same performance as the R8500LE 128MB. As for overclocking, I'm not really sure what that card can do, but when I had a R8500LE 128MB, I could do 305/305 no sweat.

...And all the King's horses and all the King's men couldn't put my computer back together again...