Wake or Sunrise ?

[orpheus]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I've been giving some tries at Assamite decks with the new cards, and
I'm not really sure about Black Sunrise.

I haven't been a big Animalism user, so I wonder. Untapping instead of
"waking" is good, but... is it ?

- Wake allows you to try to block, then deflect even if a Faceless Night
was played
- with Wake, you can still react to an action even if it was deflected
back to you, right ?

So it would look to me like Wakes were better for "deflectors", and
untaps better for "interceptors".

What is you experience on the matter ?

Chills,

Orpheus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:40:54 +0200, Orpheus <orpheus.13@DEADfree.fr> wrote:

> I've been giving some tries at Assamite decks with the new cards, and
> I'm not really sure about Black Sunrise.
>
> I haven't been a big Animalism user, so I wonder. Untapping instead of
> "waking" is good, but... is it ?
>
> - Wake allows you to try to block, then deflect even if a Faceless Night
> was played

If you untap, fail to block and will get tapped at the end of the action
by Faceless Night's text, you can still play deflection before that time.

> - with Wake, you can still react to an action even if it was deflected
> back to you, right ?

Right. You are also basically immune to the "S:CE and continue action"
cards, except maybe Form of Mist, which also gives stealth.

But, if you untap, you stay untapped when the bleed is bounced back at
you...

> So it would look to me like Wakes were better for "deflectors", and
> untaps better for "interceptors".
>
> What is you experience on the matter ?

If you use superior Deflection, than untaping is the way to go. Untap and
attempt to block, they stealth by you, you deflect and stay untapped for
further use. Generally untappers are better if you either 1) want to
prepare for further actions as well or 2) want to use a card that
requires you to tap to do something, but Wake is probably better, for
practical reasons, against that particular action it is played on (except
for not allowing tap to cards).

--
Bye,

Daneel

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Black sunrise could also be used to untap fidai for free
-KB, Prince of Harrisburg

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> note that Black Sunrise requires a block attempt, though, so you'll
> need them to stealth past or otherwise ruin your block attempt before
> you can deflect.
>
> Rat's Warning and Guard Dogs, however, do not have that requirement,
> and so work quite well with Deflection (damn Stanislava decks).


....let me think...
....Wow!

Hey, thanks! I'm going to go change my Stanislava deck right now!

-- Brian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:40:54 +0200, Orpheus <orpheus.13@DEADfree.fr>
scrawled:

>I've been giving some tries at Assamite decks with the new cards, and
>I'm not really sure about Black Sunrise.
>
>I haven't been a big Animalism user, so I wonder. Untapping instead of
>"waking" is good, but... is it ?
>
>- Wake allows you to try to block, then deflect even if a Faceless Night
>was played

so does Black Sunrise. from Faceless night's text:
" +1 stealth, and any minion who attempts to block this action and
fails becomes tapped when the action is resolved (before resolving the
action)."

so you're still untapped when you want to deflect.

>- with Wake, you can still react to an action even if it was deflected
>back to you, right ?

yup. reaction cards tend to last for the duration of the action, and
Wake explicitly has "until the current action is concluded."

>So it would look to me like Wakes were better for "deflectors", and
>untaps better for "interceptors".
>
>What is you experience on the matter ?

with untaps, if you untap, then deflect, you're still untapped for the
next action, so you need less of them. with wake you'll need another
wake for the next action.

note that Black Sunrise requires a block attempt, though, so you'll
need them to stealth past or otherwise ruin your block attempt before
you can deflect.

Rat's Warning and Guard Dogs, however, do not have that requirement,
and so work quite well with Deflection (damn Stanislava decks).

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo wrote:
>
> > I don't know about what's better for what at the moment, but I'm
> > collecting every single Black Sunrise I see available for trade
> > because I can swear it's written "Fida'i" in it.
> >
> > There's a lot of +1 stealth actions out there. Oops, Fida'i tried
to
> > block and failed. He's untapped now. How unlucky I am, heh? :-D
>
> Unless you're going to play Quietus skill cards, you're going to need
to
> have your Fida'i fail to block (D) actions that target you or
something
> you control. If you get stealth-bled a lot, I guess that'll work
well for
> you. One might find certain aspects of getting stealth-bled a lot
> undesireable. YMMV, I suppose.
>
> Matt Morgan

Sounds like a job for Deviki Presanta, baby!

John

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Matthew T. Morgan wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 jnewquist@difsol.com wrote:
>
> >> Unless you're going to play Quietus skill cards, you're going to
need
> > to
> >> have your Fida'i fail to block (D) actions that target you or
> > something
> >> you control. If you get stealth-bled a lot, I guess that'll work
> > well for
> >> you. One might find certain aspects of getting stealth-bled a lot
> >> undesireable. YMMV, I suppose.

Or you can put certain 'come take a +1 stealth action at my card'
things in your deck like Haven Uncovereds. (Or Brainwash, but why would
you play that? For that matter, why play HU in an Assamite deck?)

Personally, if I'm using Fid'ai at all and planning to use Black
Sunrise, I'd prefer to actually block instead of get stealthed past..
weenie cel combat isn't the worst thing.

> >
> > Sounds like a job for Deviki Presanta, baby!
>
> Could be. I'd rather just play Web of Knives Recruits. Much better
than
> Fida'i, IMO.

Although you have to wait a few turns to be able to put WoK into play.
And you can always use both. Fida'i have certainly poked their nose
into an Anarch deck of mine recently.. they Undue Influence just fine,
after all.

> -Matt

-John Flournoy

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus <orpheus.13@deadfree.fr> wrote:
> I've been giving some tries at Assamite decks with the new cards, and
> I'm not really sure about Black Sunrise.

Black Sunrise during a hunt, generate no intercept (fail to block), and
then play Foul Blood!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 jnewquist@difsol.com wrote:

>> Unless you're going to play Quietus skill cards, you're going to need
> to
>> have your Fida'i fail to block (D) actions that target you or
> something
>> you control. If you get stealth-bled a lot, I guess that'll work
> well for
>> you. One might find certain aspects of getting stealth-bled a lot
>> undesireable. YMMV, I suppose.
>>
>> Matt Morgan
>
> Sounds like a job for Deviki Presanta, baby!

Could be. I'd rather just play Web of Knives Recruits. Much better than
Fida'i, IMO.

-Matt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus wrote:
> I've been giving some tries at Assamite decks with the new cards, and

> I'm not really sure about Black Sunrise.
>
> I haven't been a big Animalism user, so I wonder. Untapping instead
of
> "waking" is good, but... is it ?
>
> - Wake allows you to try to block, then deflect even if a Faceless
Night
> was played
> - with Wake, you can still react to an action even if it was
deflected
> back to you, right ?
>
> So it would look to me like Wakes were better for "deflectors", and
> untaps better for "interceptors".
>
> What is you experience on the matter ?

If your intent is blocking and fighting, use Black Sunrise.
If your intent is mainly bouncing, use Wakes.

Jeff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 23:40:54 +0200, Orpheus <orpheus.13@DEADfree.fr>
wrote:

>I've been giving some tries at Assamite decks with the new cards, and
>I'm not really sure about Black Sunrise.
>I haven't been a big Animalism user, so I wonder. Untapping instead of
>"waking" is good, but... is it ?
>- Wake allows you to try to block, then deflect even if a Faceless Night
>was played
>- with Wake, you can still react to an action even if it was deflected
>back to you, right ?
>So it would look to me like Wakes were better for "deflectors", and
>untaps better for "interceptors".
>What is you experience on the matter ?
>Chills,
>Orpheus

I don't know about what's better for what at the moment, but I'm
collecting every single Black Sunrise I see available for trade
because I can swear it's written "Fida'i" in it.

There's a lot of +1 stealth actions out there. Oops, Fida'i tried to
block and failed. He's untapped now. How unlucky I am, heh? :-D

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo wrote:

> I don't know about what's better for what at the moment, but I'm
> collecting every single Black Sunrise I see available for trade
> because I can swear it's written "Fida'i" in it.
>
> There's a lot of +1 stealth actions out there. Oops, Fida'i tried to
> block and failed. He's untapped now. How unlucky I am, heh? :-D

Unless you're going to play Quietus skill cards, you're going to need to
have your Fida'i fail to block (D) actions that target you or something
you control. If you get stealth-bled a lot, I guess that'll work well for
you. One might find certain aspects of getting stealth-bled a lot
undesireable. YMMV, I suppose.

Matt Morgan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 4 Apr 2005 05:40:38 -0700, firstconformist@aol.com scrawled:

>
>> note that Black Sunrise requires a block attempt, though, so you'll
>> need them to stealth past or otherwise ruin your block attempt before
>> you can deflect.
>>
>> Rat's Warning and Guard Dogs, however, do not have that requirement,
>> and so work quite well with Deflection (damn Stanislava decks).
>
>
>...let me think...
>...Wow!
>
>Hey, thanks! I'm going to go change my Stanislava deck right now!

dear god, what have i done?!!?

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:18:48 -0500, "Matthew T. Morgan"
<farquar@io.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Apr 2005, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo wrote:
>
>> I don't know about what's better for what at the moment, but I'm
>> collecting every single Black Sunrise I see available for trade
>> because I can swear it's written "Fida'i" in it.
>>
>> There's a lot of +1 stealth actions out there. Oops, Fida'i tried to
>> block and failed. He's untapped now. How unlucky I am, heh? :-D
>
>Unless you're going to play Quietus skill cards, you're going to need to
>have your Fida'i fail to block (D) actions that target you or something
>you control. If you get stealth-bled a lot, I guess that'll work well for
>you. One might find certain aspects of getting stealth-bled a lot
>undesireable. YMMV, I suppose.
>Matt Morgan

I thought about including at least 4 Quietus skill cards - I don't
need to untap *all* Fida'i via BS - and 2 Deviki Prasanta. That'll do
most of the time.

And even without the skill cards, I've had a Fida'i deck that never
got a single VP, but usually was treated as it was ready for the GW
just because it's a weenie deck (and I can't blame my playgroup on
this). That means a *lot* of (D) actions taken against the poor little
assamites, from rushes to Seeds of Corruption to Temptation to
Haunting to... you get the idea.

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Mon, 4 Apr 2005 13:50:08 -0500, "Matthew T. Morgan"
<farquar@io.com> wrote:

>> Sounds like a job for Deviki Presanta, baby!
>
>Could be. I'd rather just play Web of Knives Recruits. Much better than
>Fida'i, IMO.
>
>-Matt

I'm playing a deck with 6 Web of Knives recently, and I must say:
they're good, but they're slow.
Unless you plan to use *all* disciplines (or at least the three
in-clan), I prefer to setup for using the Fida'i - because you don't
need that many setup to *start* using them, but to *continue* using
them later.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 4 Apr 2005 13:25:59 -0700, "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Personally, if I'm using Fid'ai at all and planning to use Black
>Sunrise, I'd prefer to actually block instead of get stealthed past..
>weenie cel combat isn't the worst thing.
>
>Although you have to wait a few turns to be able to put WoK into play.
>And you can always use both. Fida'i have certainly poked their nose
>into an Anarch deck of mine recently.. they Undue Influence just fine,
>after all.
>-John Flournoy

Hmmm... Something like this?

Deck Name : Anarch Fida'i under Black Sunrise
Author : Fabio Sooner
Description :

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 8 average: 3.5
------------------------------------------------------------

9x Fida'i 2 cel qui Assamite:2
3x Bajazet al-Nasir 8 OBF QUI cel for pre Assamite:2

Library [90 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------

Action [16]
4x Entrenching
4x Khabar: Glory
6x Undue Influence
2x Web of Knives Recruit

Action Modifier [11]
8x Cloak the Gathering
3x Lost in Crowds

Action Modifier/Combat [3]
3x Swallowed by the Night

Ally [2]
2x Deviki Prasanta

Combat [22]
6x Concealed Weapon
8x Diversion
8x Selective Silence

Equipment [6]
6x .44 Magnum

Master [22]
1x Anarch Free Press, The
4x Blood Doll
6x Galaric's Legacy
2x Khabar: Community, The
1x Market Square
2x Obfuscate
4x Quietus
1x Seattle Committee
1x Underworld Hunting Ground

Reaction [8]
8x Black Sunrise


Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Tue Apr 05 08:52:54 2005]


Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Fabio "Sooner" Macedo" <fabio_sooner@NOSPAMyahoo.com.br> wrote in message
news3v451dqhbtv187fakcd14ap3o29dl3tnu@4ax.com...
> On 4 Apr 2005 13:25:59 -0700, "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Personally, if I'm using Fid'ai at all and planning to use Black
>>Sunrise, I'd prefer to actually block instead of get stealthed past..
>>weenie cel combat isn't the worst thing.
>>
>>Although you have to wait a few turns to be able to put WoK into play.
>>And you can always use both. Fida'i have certainly poked their nose
>>into an Anarch deck of mine recently.. they Undue Influence just fine,
>>after all.
>>-John Flournoy
>
> Hmmm... Something like this?
>
> Deck Name : Anarch Fida'i under Black Sunrise
> Author : Fabio Sooner
> Description :
>
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 2 max: 8 average: 3.5
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 9x Fida'i 2 cel qui Assamite:2
> 3x Bajazet al-Nasir 8 OBF QUI cel for pre Assamite:2
>
> Library [90 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Action [16]
> 4x Entrenching
> 4x Khabar: Glory
> 6x Undue Influence
> 2x Web of Knives Recruit
>
> Action Modifier [11]
> 8x Cloak the Gathering
> 3x Lost in Crowds

What?! No Forced March?

> Action Modifier/Combat [3]
> 3x Swallowed by the Night
>
> Ally [2]
> 2x Deviki Prasanta
>
> Combat [22]
> 6x Concealed Weapon
> 8x Diversion
> 8x Selective Silence

Drop the Concealed for Tastes of Death

> Equipment [6]
> 6x .44 Magnum

Drop these for 6x Zip Guns

>
> Master [22]
> 1x Anarch Free Press, The
> 4x Blood Doll
> 6x Galaric's Legacy
> 2x Khabar: Community, The
> 1x Market Square
> 2x Obfuscate
> 4x Quietus
> 1x Seattle Committee
> 1x Underworld Hunting Ground
>
> Reaction [8]
> 8x Black Sunrise
>

Hope this helps.


--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp

 

[orpheus]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> And even without the skill cards, I've had a Fida'i deck that never
> got a single VP, but usually was treated as it was ready for the GW
> just because it's a weenie deck (and I can't blame my playgroup on
> this). That means a *lot* of (D) actions taken against the poor little
> assamites, from rushes to Seeds of Corruption to Temptation to
> Haunting to... you get the idea.

LOL. Poor Fabio !!

Bad friends, bad. Not nice to Fabio. Bad to Fidai. Ugly, ugly.

Orpheus (nice to Fabio).

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:39:09 +0200, Orpheus <orpheus.13@DEADfree.fr>
wrote:

>> And even without the skill cards, I've had a Fida'i deck that never
>> got a single VP, but usually was treated as it was ready for the GW
>> just because it's a weenie deck (and I can't blame my playgroup on
>> this). That means a *lot* of (D) actions taken against the poor little
>> assamites, from rushes to Seeds of Corruption to Temptation to
>> Haunting to... you get the idea.
>
>LOL. Poor Fabio !!
>Bad friends, bad. Not nice to Fabio. Bad to Fidai. Ugly, ugly.
>Orpheus (nice to Fabio).

"Bad to Fida'i" is the important part!

How come people are so bad to a little fella like Fida'i?:
They're not even clan proper! :-D

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/