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[Streamlining D&D] Classes

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Anonymous
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August 31, 2005 3:34:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

CLASSES:

There's currently 11 classes. We at most need 8 or 9 to
differentiate PCs (if you have 10 or more players, I'd suggest you
split the group up), at least we need 4 for a standard D&D party. The
4 original Iconic classes are Cleric, Fighter, Rogue & Wizard, so we
need to keep those. We need some choices that don't invade those
niches, yet will add something to the group. That leaves Sorcerer and
Barbarian out right off the bat. That leaves us with 9 classes: Bard,
Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Paladin, Monk, Wizard.

HD are an area where randomness can be reduced, so make all classes get
average for their HD, but still max at 1st lv, we can take a page from
NPCs again and alternate high/low HP, For instance A Fighter would get
10 HP at 1st, 6 at all even levels and 5 at all other odd levels (easy
to remember because 6 is even and 5 is odd).

[Taking HD further: Just give max HP to everyone and everything. If
you do this also use max damage on all weapons, and spells. DR should
come out to about the same effect over time, Str & Con will both be
less effective at causing and mitigating damage, but this can be good.
Doubling the damage bonus of magic weapons may be necessary so all +1
weapons do +2 damage etc. I'd also suggest giving more or doubling HP
at first level for PCs, as this will severely lower their survivability
for the first few levels.]

An area where strategy can be reduced is preparing spells. Change all
spellcasting to be spontaneous. This will greatly increase the power
of preparation spellcasters however, so we probably want to also reduce
their spell lists to something more manageable (see spell section).

Specific Class Changes:

Cleric:

[Taking Cleric Further: Turning/Rebuking rules are a bit obtuse, they
could be replaced with something better. Domains could either be
eliminated, or melded into the main spell casting portion]

Druid:

[Taking Druid Further: Animal Companions considerably slow combat
down, one could take them away. Doing so Druids should be compensated
by something else]

Fighter: As we are rolling barbarian into fighter, we'll give
fighters the rage option, but tone it down, +2 to Str & Con, +2 Will,
-2 AC. We'll also make it start later, at 6th lv, only 1ce a day.
At 12th we'll increase that to 2x day and +4 Str & Con, +3 Will, and
at 18 it becomes 3x day, +6 Str & Con and +4 to Will. We'll change
the name so it's less anger specific, say Push Self. We'll also
give the DR of Barbarians as is. We'll give them HP as a Barbarian,
but we'll remove a few feats for all this, say at 6th, 12th, & 18th
since those levels get a feat anyway.

Ranger: Drop the two weapon options for rangers, and go to all
archery.

[Taking Ranger Further: Favored enemy bonuses are a bit specialized,
with a large number to keep track of. You could drop those, but as
they are a large part of the ranger's ability you need something to
come up with to replace them. Also animal companions could be removed.
Again you would need to compensate the class somehow.]

Wizard:

[Taking Wizard Further: Like Animal Companions, Familiars add
complication to the game, one could remove them, but compensation would
be needed. One possible way to do this with small effect is to just
give the bonus they would normally get from having a familiar, although
this doesn't entirely compensate for the scouting & etc of having a
familiar.]

[Taking Classes Sideways: Taking a note from D20 modern, We could
reduce the game to 6 classes based on their Abilities.
Str: Basically your Barbarian/Fighter, call them Warrior
Dex: Basically your typical Rogue, minus the charisma abilities.
Con: This class is about being tough & defensive, I picture them
somewhere between your typical Fighter and Paladin, with maybe a bit of
Monk thrown in. All good saves, take the DR from the Barbarian, and
some of the abilities of the dwarven defender. Call them Defender
Wis: This class is all about insight and perception, seeing the spirit
world, being in tune with everything, not necessarily associated with a
god, I picture some Druid/Ranger abilities mixed with the current
cleric, and toned down a bit, Call them a Spiritist.
Int: Take the wizard, take away the charm & illusion spells (which go
to CHA), This class is all about knowledge, give them the lore
abilities of the bard.
Cha: Take the current bard, take away the lore abilities, give them
expanded spellcasting, and all the charm & illusion type spells that
the wizard has.]

- Justisaur

PS. Thanks everyone for all the ideas so far incorperated.

More about : streamlining classes

Anonymous
a b α HP
August 31, 2005 4:41:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Then there are the secondary Classes like the Hexblade, Warlock, Scout,
Swashbuckler, etc. from the Complete Warrior, Adventurer, Divine, &
Arcana, the Psionic classes, and that's not talking Prestige Classes...
This allows for a greater variety at the table.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 31, 2005 6:07:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

R. Scott Dalton wrote:
> Of course, the big downside I see for this is that every character will be
> one step closer to being "Cookie Cutter." Rather than alter core game
> mechanics(as they stand), one could always "house rule" anything they feel
> is unnecessary to their game, or, failing that, there are plenty of
> alternatives out there. GURPs, for one.
>

Why the hell do people keep bringing up GURPs as an alternative. I
want to reduce complexity and streamline play not increase it!

> That being said, I can kind of see where it would help to make things easier
> on people, but then again, if people wanted all the word done for them, more
> than likely, they would be playing a computer RPG to begin with.

Any table top RPG is so far removed from computer play I can't even
begin to equate the comparison here. You are giving me a throbbing
vein in my head from the stupidity.

- Justisaur
Related resources
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 31, 2005 6:09:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Arg! Forgot to use {} instead of [] hopefully this will fix it...

Justisaur wrote:
> CLASSES:
>
> There's currently 11 classes. We at most need 8 or 9 to
> differentiate PCs (if you have 10 or more players, I'd suggest you
> split the group up), at least we need 4 for a standard D&D party. The
> 4 original Iconic classes are Cleric, Fighter, Rogue & Wizard, so we
> need to keep those. We need some choices that don't invade those
> niches, yet will add something to the group. That leaves Sorcerer and
> Barbarian out right off the bat. That leaves us with 9 classes: Bard,
> Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Paladin, Monk, Wizard.
>
> HD are an area where randomness can be reduced, so make all classes get
> average for their HD, but still max at 1st lv, we can take a page from
> NPCs again and alternate high/low HP, For instance A Fighter would get
> 10 HP at 1st, 6 at all even levels and 5 at all other odd levels (easy
> to remember because 6 is even and 5 is odd).
>
> [Taking HD further: Just give max HP to everyone and everything. If
> you do this also use max damage on all weapons, and spells. DR should
> come out to about the same effect over time, Str & Con will both be
> less effective at causing and mitigating damage, but this can be good.
> Doubling the damage bonus of magic weapons may be necessary so all +1
> weapons do +2 damage etc. I'd also suggest giving more or doubling HP
> at first level for PCs, as this will severely lower their survivability
> for the first few levels.]
>
> An area where strategy can be reduced is preparing spells. Change all
> spellcasting to be spontaneous. This will greatly increase the power
> of preparation spellcasters however, so we probably want to also reduce
> their spell lists to something more manageable (see spell section).
>
> Specific Class Changes:
>
> Cleric:
>
> [Taking Cleric Further: Turning/Rebuking rules are a bit obtuse, they
> could be replaced with something better. Domains could either be
> eliminated, or melded into the main spell casting portion]
>
> Druid:
>
> [Taking Druid Further: Animal Companions considerably slow combat
> down, one could take them away. Doing so Druids should be compensated
> by something else]
>
> Fighter: As we are rolling barbarian into fighter, we'll give
> fighters the rage option, but tone it down, +2 to Str & Con, +2 Will,
> -2 AC. We'll also make it start later, at 6th lv, only 1ce a day.
> At 12th we'll increase that to 2x day and +4 Str & Con, +3 Will, and
> at 18 it becomes 3x day, +6 Str & Con and +4 to Will. We'll change
> the name so it's less anger specific, say Push Self. We'll also
> give the DR of Barbarians as is. We'll give them HP as a Barbarian,
> but we'll remove a few feats for all this, say at 6th, 12th, & 18th
> since those levels get a feat anyway.
>
> Ranger: Drop the two weapon options for rangers, and go to all
> archery.
>
> [Taking Ranger Further: Favored enemy bonuses are a bit specialized,
> with a large number to keep track of. You could drop those, but as
> they are a large part of the ranger's ability you need something to
> come up with to replace them. Also animal companions could be removed.
> Again you would need to compensate the class somehow.]
>
> Wizard:
>
> [Taking Wizard Further: Like Animal Companions, Familiars add
> complication to the game, one could remove them, but compensation would
> be needed. One possible way to do this with small effect is to just
> give the bonus they would normally get from having a familiar, although
> this doesn't entirely compensate for the scouting & etc of having a
> familiar.]
>
> [Taking Classes Sideways: Taking a note from D20 modern, We could
> reduce the game to 6 classes based on their Abilities.
> Str: Basically your Barbarian/Fighter, call them Warrior
> Dex: Basically your typical Rogue, minus the charisma abilities.
> Con: This class is about being tough & defensive, I picture them
> somewhere between your typical Fighter and Paladin, with maybe a bit of
> Monk thrown in. All good saves, take the DR from the Barbarian, and
> some of the abilities of the dwarven defender. Call them Defender
> Wis: This class is all about insight and perception, seeing the spirit
> world, being in tune with everything, not necessarily associated with a
> god, I picture some Druid/Ranger abilities mixed with the current
> cleric, and toned down a bit, Call them a Spiritist.
> Int: Take the wizard, take away the charm & illusion spells (which go
> to CHA), This class is all about knowledge, give them the lore
> abilities of the bard.
> Cha: Take the current bard, take away the lore abilities, give them
> expanded spellcasting, and all the charm & illusion type spells that
> the wizard has.]
>
> - Justisaur
>
> PS. Thanks everyone for all the ideas so far incorperated.
Anonymous
a b α HP
August 31, 2005 11:28:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Of course, the big downside I see for this is that every character will be
one step closer to being "Cookie Cutter." Rather than alter core game
mechanics(as they stand), one could always "house rule" anything they feel
is unnecessary to their game, or, failing that, there are plenty of
alternatives out there. GURPs, for one.

That being said, I can kind of see where it would help to make things easier
on people, but then again, if people wanted all the word done for them, more
than likely, they would be playing a computer RPG to begin with.
!