Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

[DECK] Malkavians with fortitude (G2+3)

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 10:34:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

A non-standard annoying Malk deck to be commented.

Highlights:
- Based on 4 "playable" Malks and !Malks with fortitude;
- Metagame environment based on Heavy Intercept and aggro damage
mainly;
- Take advantage on high cap vampires abilities whenever possible.

Crypt: 12
3 Anatole Gehenna Prophet, Malkavian:2, 8, DEM OBF AUS for dom, +1
intercept
2 Jason the World Voice, Malkavian:3, 8, DEM OBF AUS for, +1 bleed
2 Theron, !Malkavian:2, 8, DEM OBF AUS for obt, derange counters
2 Artemis, !Malkavian:2, 6, DEM OBF aus for cel
1 Midget, !Malkavian:3, 3, dem obf pre
1 Yorik, !Malkavian:2, 3, dem obf
1 Boy toy, !Malkavian:2, 2, dem

Library: 90

Masters: 12
4 Blood Doll
2 Minion Tap
1 Information Highway
1 Direct Intervention
1 Secure Haven
2 Visit from the Capuchin
1 Institution Hunting Ground

Actions: 20
9 Kindred Spirits
5 Lunatic Eruption
3 Derange
3 Revelations

Action Modifiers: 29
8 Lost in Crowds
5 Cloak the Gathering
3 Faceless Night
2 Deny
5 Confusion
4 Eyes of Chaos
2 Freak Drive

Combat: 14
1 Mirror Image
2 Coma
7 Skin of Steel
4 Soak

Reaction: 15
5 WWEF
3 Forced Awakening
2 Telepathic Counter
5 Telepathic Misdirection

..- Luis Duarte
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 1:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Nope. It's in fact Reality Mirror.

Thanks for noticing!
Anonymous
April 4, 2005 6:19:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 4 Apr 2005 06:34:21 -0700, Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon
<luis.paleta@netcabo.pt> wrote:

> Combat: 14
> 1 Mirror Image

Isn't this Gemini's Mirror?

--
Bye,

Daneel
Related resources
April 5, 2005 2:30:44 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon a écrit :
> A non-standard annoying Malk deck to be commented.
>
> Highlights:
> - Based on 4 "playable" Malks and !Malks with fortitude;
> - Metagame environment based on Heavy Intercept and aggro damage
> mainly;
> - Take advantage on high cap vampires abilities whenever possible.

An interesting idea. I thought about it at the time, but it seemed less
efficient than a regular Malk, except in a very heavy fight environment
of course ; another way to make up for the cost is multiple actions /
Freak Drives.

> Crypt: 12
> 3 Anatole Gehenna Prophet, Malkavian:2, 8, DEM OBF AUS for dom, +1
> intercept
> 2 Jason the World Voice, Malkavian:3, 8, DEM OBF AUS for, +1 bleed
> 2 Theron, !Malkavian:2, 8, DEM OBF AUS for obt, derange counters
> 2 Artemis, !Malkavian:2, 6, DEM OBF aus for cel
> 1 Midget, !Malkavian:3, 3, dem obf pre
> 1 Yorik, !Malkavian:2, 3, dem obf
> 1 Boy toy, !Malkavian:2, 2, dem
>
> Library: 90
>
> Masters: 12
> 4 Blood Doll
> 2 Minion Tap
> 1 Information Highway

1 is useless.

> 1 Direct Intervention
> 1 Secure Haven

Is one enough ?

> 2 Visit from the Capuchin

I'd ditch both and the Info Highway for 3 Dreams of the Sphynx : in the
beginning of the game it acts both as a poolsaver and a
transfer-speeder, and then of course it will help with hand cloggings
all game long (yes, I know it gets contested, but still...).

> 1 Institution Hunting Ground

You might want some archetypes too : either Capitalist (but then it's
Sabbat only) or preferably Perfectionnist (eh !) which will combine
perferctly with Freak Drives !!

> Actions: 20
> 9 Kindred Spirits
> 5 Lunatic Eruption

5 ? As you'll mostly target your enemies, are you sure you'll want to
give them an integrated rush ?

> 3 Derange
> 3 Revelations

More if you include more Freak Drives. If not, it's a lot already.

> Action Modifiers: 29
> 8 Lost in Crowds
> 5 Cloak the Gathering
> 3 Faceless Night
> 2 Deny
> 5 Confusion
> 4 Eyes of Chaos

(I'm not a specialist of Dem so I won't comment this)

> 2 Freak Drive

As I said, if you want to optimize the "reason to be" of your deck, you
should include more.

> Combat: 14
> 1 Mirror Image

Nice.

> 2 Coma

Soaking + Coma ? Yes, can be a fun "kinder".

> 7 Skin of Steel
> 4 Soak
>
> Reaction: 15
> 5 WWEF
> 3 Forced Awakening
> 2 Telepathic Counter

Ditch them for 3 more TM. Artemis isn't there for reacting.

> 5 Telepathic Misdirection

Hope that helps,

Orpheus
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 11:44:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Apr 2005 22:30:44 +0200, Orpheus <orpheus.13@DEADfree.fr> wrote:

>> 1 Institution Hunting Ground
>
> You might want some archetypes too : either Capitalist (but then it's
> Sabbat only) or preferably Perfectionnist (eh !) which will combine
> perferctly with Freak Drives !!

You know, this shows that Perfectionist is just plain broken... ;) 

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
April 5, 2005 2:49:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote:
> A non-standard annoying Malk deck to be commented.
>
> Highlights:
> - Based on 4 "playable" Malks and !Malks with fortitude;
> - Metagame environment based on Heavy Intercept and aggro damage
> mainly;
> - Take advantage on high cap vampires abilities whenever possible.

(snip)

> Action Modifiers: 29
> 8 Lost in Crowds
> 5 Cloak the Gathering
> 3 Faceless Night
> 2 Deny
> 5 Confusion
> 4 Eyes of Chaos
> 2 Freak Drive

In a metagame based on heavy intercept, I imagine you will want to use
Elder Impersonation often, and Confusion is more valuable than Eyes of
Chaos. I will leave the rest of this deck for others to comment.

Oh, and you need more Tremere.

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 10:16:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
>(snip)
> Oh, and you need more Tremere.
>
> Dorrinal Blackmantle
> Chronicler of Clan Tremere
> Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City

Maybe Justine? ;-)

My playgroup recently "re-discovered" the Tremere... with Fortitude.
Eugenio, Ladisla and Muaziz are the basis of the crypt. Then there are
some differences regarding the type of game each deck owner likes to
play. One more B&B, others more Wall type.
Do you have any list "in your Chantry" so we can compare with an
external view?

Thanks.
..- Luis Duarte
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 11:46:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote:
> Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
> >(snip)
> > Oh, and you need more Tremere.
> >
> > Dorrinal Blackmantle
> > Chronicler of Clan Tremere
> > Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
>
> Maybe Justine? ;-)
>
> My playgroup recently "re-discovered" the Tremere... with Fortitude.
> Eugenio, Ladisla and Muaziz are the basis of the crypt. Then there
are
> some differences regarding the type of game each deck owner likes to
> play. One more B&B, others more Wall type.
> Do you have any list "in your Chantry" so we can compare with an
> external view?
>
> Thanks.
> .- Luis Duarte

As far as Fortitude goes right now I'm working with Anarchs for a lot
of reasons, including Loose Cannon and Diversion. You can see what
I've been working on in my November Newsletter.

http://www.thelasombra.com/newsletter/tremere_november_...

Now it's changed a little bit since I posted that newsletter but the
deck feels about the same.

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Chantry Elder of Munich
Anonymous
April 6, 2005 4:42:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus wrote:
> Dorrinal Blackmantle a écrit :
> > As far as Fortitude goes right now I'm working with Anarchs for a
lot
> > of reasons, including Loose Cannon and Diversion. You can see what
> > I've been working on in my November Newsletter.
>
> I've gone that way too. Everyone told me how nice my deck was, and I
> made a few VPs. Then I arrived to the conclusion that a simple,
> non-Anarch deck with the same vamps but "real" Tha strikes and no
Loose
> Cannons was at least as efficient, and not even sure about the For
part.

You could be right; a Tremere-with-Fortitude does not have to go Anarch
to be effective. I have found Loose Cannon to be very useful so I
won't debate whether it is worth going Anarch or not. It might be more
important to discuss what Fortitude brings to the table and why we
should incorporate it into a Tremere deck.

Damage Prevention
- Fortitude easily covers the primary hurdle to combat for Tremere: we
can't take a hit. Also combines nicely with Burst of Sunlight.

Kiss of Ra
- Cardano can play it; the others are protected from it, which is
important to a wall deck.

Dawn Operation / Weather Control / Skin of Night
- Devastating, but unreliable and unwieldy combo.

Freak Drive
- Better than Rutor's Hand in the short term but Rutor's Hand is
permanent. But they sure can be played with each other. My main
problem using Freak Drive is that the Tremere (or !Ventrue) do not have
superior Fortitude and they get blocked often, so inferior Freak Drive
is not reliable.

As far as I can tell, the deckbuilding challenges presented by adding
Fortitude outweight the benifit one would get from incorporating the
discipline. Cardano- and Muaziz-based decks are obvious exceptions.

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
April 7, 2005 1:05:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Dorrinal Blackmantle a écrit :
> Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote:
>
>>Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
>>
>>>(snip)
>>>Oh, and you need more Tremere.
>>>
>>>Dorrinal Blackmantle
>>>Chronicler of Clan Tremere
>>>Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
>>
>>Maybe Justine? ;-)

Such a great anti-weenie !! But then, Lucas Halton ain't bad either...

>>My playgroup recently "re-discovered" the Tremere... with Fortitude.
>>Eugenio, Ladisla and Muaziz are the basis of the crypt.

Please don't forget the 2 !Ventrue Marlene and Vincent Day !! And an
eventual Ian Forrestal or two to round up the deal (and Govern down on
all...).

Then there
>
> are
>
>>some differences regarding the type of game each deck owner likes to
>>play. One more B&B, others more Wall type.

I've tried a few variants. The lethal 3-cards-combo of Dawn Op / Weather
Control / Skin of Night is great, but takes much place, and isn't much
combo with Muaziz. It needs lots of cycling to get the bleed. Maybe
bleed perms are the best way to go there.

For just fight, I'm not sure For really cuts it for them : Thoughts
Betrayed at long range should suffice, and all the rest is Tha strikes
and presses.

And Walls I wouldn't know about.

>>Do you have any list "in your Chantry" so we can compare with an
>>external view?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>.- Luis Duarte
>
>
> As far as Fortitude goes right now I'm working with Anarchs for a lot
> of reasons, including Loose Cannon and Diversion. You can see what
> I've been working on in my November Newsletter.

I've gone that way too. Everyone told me how nice my deck was, and I
made a few VPs. Then I arrived to the conclusion that a simple,
non-Anarch deck with the same vamps but "real" Tha strikes and no Loose
Cannons was at least as efficient, and not even sure about the For part.

Orpheus
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 9:31:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Orpheus wrote:
>>>My playgroup recently "re-discovered" the Tremere... with Fortitude.
>>>Eugenio, Ladisla and Muaziz are the basis of the crypt.
> Please don't forget the 2 !Ventrue Marlene and Vincent Day !! And an
> eventual Ian Forrestal or two to round up the deal (and Govern down
> on all...).

One of the decks here uses those two by i'm not really convinced
they're more useful than a couple of Tremere or antitribu with superior
clan disciplines, mid cap and no fortitude.


> I've tried a few variants. The lethal 3-cards-combo of Dawn Op /
Weather
> Control / Skin of Night is great, but takes much place, and isn't
much
> combo with Muaziz. It needs lots of cycling to get the bleed. Maybe
> bleed perms are the best way to go there.

I've already tried the "one pony trick" 3-cards-combo around Darius
Styx (Ravnos with THA) and Alejandro Aguirre (its ability to
permanently have a Weather Control). It's fun to play but not really
effective most of the times because people stop blocking you and you
got hand jammed...

> For just fight, I'm not sure For really cuts it for them : Thoughts
> Betrayed at long range should suffice, and all the rest is Tha
strikes
> and presses.

Yes, but since that's not very effective people don't build that a lot
for a couple of years, since the 7/7 changes to Thougths Betrayed.
People still see it as an anti-S:CE and for that effect you've got
Telepathic Tracking since Sabbat War........

> And Walls I wouldn't know about.

Walls are based around Burst of Sunlight/Rotschreck and BoS/Guardian
Angel or fortitude. Add to it Magic of the Smith's and Ivory Bow or
other aggro weapon.


..- Luis Duarte
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 9:42:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
> (...) It might be more
> important to discuss what Fortitude brings to the table and why
> we should incorporate it into a Tremere deck.
>
> Damage Prevention
> - Fortitude easily covers the primary hurdle to combat for Tremere:
we
> can't take a hit. Also combines nicely with Burst of Sunlight.

The "must" here is the combo BoS / Guardian Angel. Fortitude is mostly
used to prevent opponent strikes. Skin of Steel, Rolling with Punches,
Soak.

> Kiss of Ra
> - Cardano can play it; the others are protected from it, which is
> important to a wall deck.

In our meta game vampires with fortitude are very common. So the decks
have 2 or 3 KoR and a couple of fortitude master disciplines to allow
mid-cap vamps to play it but especially to take advantage of the
superior damage prevention cards.

> Dawn Operation / Weather Control / Skin of Night
> - Devastating, but unreliable and unwieldy combo.

More or less... i already tried it but players rapidly learn to counter
it not blocking and hand jamming you! It's one-pony-trick fun but, as
you said, unrealiable.

> Freak Drive
> - Better than Rutor's Hand in the short term but Rutor's Hand is
> permanent. But they sure can be played with each other. My main
> problem using Freak Drive is that the Tremere (or !Ventrue) do not
have
> superior Fortitude and they get blocked often, so inferior Freak
Drive
> is not reliable.

That's 100% true and confirmed. Rutor's Hand is far better but, like
KoR, you can add 2-3 FD to your deck just in case.


> As far as I can tell, the deckbuilding challenges presented by adding
> Fortitude outweight the benifit one would get from incorporating the
> discipline. Cardano- and Muaziz-based decks are obvious exceptions.

Sorry, but can you explain this better? I'm not really sure i
understand what you mean here (is it worth it or not?). Thanks.

..- Luis Duarte
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 10:52:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Check this Tremere Fortitude deck from a friend of mine.
Notice he doesn't play with Freak Drive since it's replaced by Rutor's
Hand.
Sorry for the message formating (exported from a spreadsheet).

Crypt 12
3 Muaziz, Archon of Ulug Beg Tremere:2 7 THA for dom aus
3 Ladislas Toth, The Torck !Tremere:3 7 THA for DOM AUS
3 Eugenio Estevez Tremere:3 6 THA for dom AUS
1 Aisling Sturbridge Tremere:2 5 THA dom AUS
1 Blythe Candeleria Tremere:2 3 THA aus
1 Mazika St. John Tremere:3 3 THA


Library 90

Masters 15
4 Blood Doll
3 Fortitude
3 Guardian Angel
1 Academic Hunting Ground
1 Arcane Library
1 Chantry
1 Fame

Actions 8
3 Rutor's Hand
3 Magic of the Smith
2 Pulse of Canaille

Action Modifiers 8
2 Kiss of Ra
3 Conditioning

Equipment 5
1 Ankara Citadel, Turkey, The
1 Ivory Bow
2 Sport Bike
1 Palatial Estate

Combat 34
5 Apportation
5 Theft of Vitae
4 Blood Fury
7 Burst of Sunlight
5 Skin of Steel
4 Rolling with the Punches
4 Soak

Reactions 23
7 Forced Awakening
4 Precognition
4 Enhanced Senses
4 Telepathic Misdirection
4 Deflection
Anonymous
April 7, 2005 11:52:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Luis Duarte - Powerbase:Lisbon wrote:
> Dorrinal Blackmantle wrote:
> > As far as I can tell, the deckbuilding challenges presented by
adding
> > Fortitude outweight the benifit one would get from incorporating
the
> > discipline. Cardano- and Muaziz-based decks are obvious
exceptions.
>
> Sorry, but can you explain this better? I'm not really sure i
> understand what you mean here (is it worth it or not?). Thanks.
>
> .- Luis Duarte

Take a look at your friend's deck you posted below. His crypt
selection is limited and he felt he had to include 3 Fortitude Masters
to make the deck work better. Those are two significant deckbuilding
restrictions for the benefit of a handful of damage prevention and two
prayer Kiss of Ra. I'm not sure that it is worth it, but if I ever get
sick of this Anarchs deck I will try a deck similar to his and see what
happens!

Dorrinal Blackmantle
Chronicler of Clan Tremere
Chantry Elder of Salt Lake City
!