Need a name for a magical element

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Okay, in my home-brew world, we have an elemental magic system. Here's a
quick overview:

- The primary arcane spell-casting class is the Mage. (No wizards; no
sorcerers.)
- Mages receive a number of channels as they progress in levels.
- Each channel must be attuned to an elemental node before the Mage
can use it to cast a spell.
- Spells have specific node costs to cast. For example, a simple illusion
might require 1 Light and 1 Dark. To add sound, you add an Air node.
- There are 9 elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Light, Dark, Life, Death,
and Spirit. (In this campaign setting, 9 is a very important number.
It abounds everywhere.)

(There is, of course, more to it than that, but it isn't relevant to this
post.)

The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then bring
this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell work,
as you bend it according to your will.

Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an earth
and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life. What if I wanted to summon
an undead? Everything would break down at that point.

So then I began to think that maybe Spirit was a bad name for this element.
The idea was that it would be like primordial ether. You could use it to do
anything. I need a word for this element that is neutral; it doesn't lean
towards life or death, good or evil, anarchy or chaos, the physical versus
the spiritual. It would indicate raw power.

I thought that Ether would be a good choice. According to online sources, it
was (at one time) "the fifth and highest element after air and earth and
fire and water; was believed to be the substance composing all heavenly
bodies". In Physics, Ether was "a medium that was once supposed to fill all
space and to support the propagation of electromagnetic waves;" this kind of
gives the idea of the all-encompassing pervasive field of energy. My buddy,
who often helps me with these projects, thinks that "Ether", however, is too
technical. (I argue, however, that "Attack of Opportunity" was too technical
when 3rd Edition came out, but people figured it out in due time.)

I also considered Force, but rejected it for fairly obvious reasons.

Can you guys suggest anything? Should I just leave it at "Spirit"? Is
"Ether" okay? Is there a better word?

Thanks for your help.
 
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Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>
> Can you guys suggest anything? Should I just leave it at "Spirit"? Is
> "Ether" okay? Is there a better word?
>

Either works fine. You could call it Phlogistine (sp?) or Octorange or
Magic, or Mana, or Chi, or Ka, or any of a thousand other things.

- Justisaur
 
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"Pythor" <pythor@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1125599074.788809.316210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Animus... Roughly, motion.

OOH! That's a good one!
 
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
<michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:

>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then bring
>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell work,
>as you bend it according to your will.
>
>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an earth
>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.

It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.
 
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"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
news:4316e2bd.2297170@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>bring
>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>work,
>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>
>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>earth
>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>
> It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.

Exactly. And that's the problem. I think that semantically, people will
associate spirit with the living. (It's a Christian philosophy thing.) I was
hoping to find a decent word that really leapt out at me without being
associated with life. It needs to be distinct.
 
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Telendil Silverleaf wrote:

>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an earth
>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.

Yet "spirits" aren't alive.

>What if I wanted to summon
>an undead? Everything would break down at that point.

Not really. If you describe it more as "the divine spark", the thing that
separates a living being from a dead body, a rock monster from a boulder, etc.
then it's just the animating force. Neither life nor undeath, but the key to
sentience. Not quite a soul, but almost. The more intelligent and vital the
creature (living or undead), the more it has.

>I thought that Ether would be a good choice. According to online sources, it
>was (at one time) "the fifth and highest element after air and earth and
>fire and water; was believed to be the substance composing all heavenly
>bodies".

You could go for the gusto and call it Quintessence, though in your system
it'd be closer to Nonessence (nine), but that's just confusing. Maybe
"Essence", then.

To crib from Infocom's Spellbreaker, the thirteen named of the nineteen
magical cubes were Earth, Water, Air, Fire, Dark, Connectivity, Light, Death,
Life, Mind, Change, Time, and Magic.

Other words that have been used that I remember, most with "the" in front:
Weave, Warp, Weft, Wave, Balance, Power, Spark, Source, Nexus, Essentia,
Synergy, Substance, Flux. Several other words related to/synonymous with
liquid motion, catalysts, the word "fundamental", or netting/fabric. A
thesaurus might be a good investment.

Len

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"Len Pitre" <I_am_the_archon@Doom!.com> wrote in message
news:FOHRe.83502$Ph4.2638847@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>
>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>earth
>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>
> Yet "spirits" aren't alive.

No, but in most belief systems, spirit is what imparts life. As you point
out below, it's like the divine spark that makes a nonliving thing a living
thing.

<SNIP!>

> A thesaurus might be a good investment.

Sage advice, always. :) And I have several, and used them. Even the online
ones. Nothing grabbed my attention, really. But Change is astonishingly
good. So is Animus. I'm leaning towards those now.
 
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:02:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
<michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:

>"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
>news:4316e2bd.2297170@news.telusplanet.net...
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>>bring
>>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>>work,
>>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>>
>>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>>earth
>>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>>
>> It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.
>
>Exactly. And that's the problem. I think that semantically, people will
>associate spirit with the living. (It's a Christian philosophy thing.) I was
>hoping to find a decent word that really leapt out at me without being
>associated with life. It needs to be distinct.

Ah. I guess it being a Christian philosophy thing explains why the
connection between spirit and life escapes me, since if anything I
automatically think of them as being opposites. Why not just use
"Magic"? Given the description, that's what it is.
 
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"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
news:4316ffdf.9756520@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:02:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
>>news:4316e2bd.2297170@news.telusplanet.net...
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>>> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>>>bring
>>>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>>>work,
>>>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>>>
>>>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>>>earth
>>>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But
>>>>then
>>>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>>>
>>> It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.
>>
>>Exactly. And that's the problem. I think that semantically, people will
>>associate spirit with the living. (It's a Christian philosophy thing.) I
>>was
>>hoping to find a decent word that really leapt out at me without being
>>associated with life. It needs to be distinct.
>
> Ah. I guess it being a Christian philosophy thing explains why the
> connection between spirit and life escapes me, since if anything I
> automatically think of them as being opposites. Why not just use
> "Magic"? Given the description, that's what it is.

Well, my primary reason would be that "Magic" is the overarching concept. In
this world, "magic" is the effect of using your will to manipulate elemental
energy. So having an element called magic would be circular and confusing.

I think. :-/
 
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Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
> "David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
> news:4316e2bd.2297170@news.telusplanet.net...
>
>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>><michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>>bring
>>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>>work,
>>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>>
>>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>>earth
>>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>>
>>It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.
>
>
> Exactly. And that's the problem. I think that semantically, people will
> associate spirit with the living. (It's a Christian philosophy thing.) I was
> hoping to find a decent word that really leapt out at me without being
> associated with life. It needs to be distinct.

Nakedgirlium
 
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:45:23 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
<michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:

>>
>> Ah. I guess it being a Christian philosophy thing explains why the
>> connection between spirit and life escapes me, since if anything I
>> automatically think of them as being opposites. Why not just use
>> "Magic"? Given the description, that's what it is.
>
>Well, my primary reason would be that "Magic" is the overarching concept.

As you describe it, so's the sphere. It's the catalyst that makes all
other spheres work, right?
 
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"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
news:43171249.14471280@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:45:23 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Ah. I guess it being a Christian philosophy thing explains why the
>>> connection between spirit and life escapes me, since if anything I
>>> automatically think of them as being opposites. Why not just use
>>> "Magic"? Given the description, that's what it is.
>>
>>Well, my primary reason would be that "Magic" is the overarching concept.
>
> As you describe it, so's the sphere. It's the catalyst that makes all
> other spheres work, right?

Not sure I understand you. (Only 1 cup of coffee today.)

Can you say that again? Slowly? :)
 
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Werebat wrote:

>
>
> Telendil Silverleaf wrote:
>
>> "David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
>> news:4316e2bd.2297170@news.telusplanet.net...
>>
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>>> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and
>>>> then bring
>>>> this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the
>>>> spell work,
>>>> as you bend it according to your will.
>>>>
>>>> Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>>> spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use
>>>> an earth
>>>> and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph.
>>>> But then
>>>> it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>>>
>>>
>>> It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.
>>
>>
>>
>> Exactly. And that's the problem. I think that semantically, people
>> will associate spirit with the living. (It's a Christian philosophy
>> thing.) I was hoping to find a decent word that really leapt out at me
>> without being associated with life. It needs to be distinct.
>
>
> Nakedgirlium

I'm sorry... I jumped the gun on that one.

"Nakedladium" flows so much better...

- Ron ^*^
 

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Alien mind control rays made Telendil Silverleaf <michael.hofer@cox.net> write:
> Can you guys suggest anything? Should I just leave it at "Spirit"? Is
> "Ether" okay? Is there a better word?

"mana" is pretty traditional. also, "prego".

--
\^\ // drow@bin.sh (CARRIER LOST) <http://www.bin.sh/>
\ // - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
// \ X-Windows: Simplicity made complex.
// \_\ -- Dude from DPAK
 
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"drow" <drow@bin.sh> wrote in message
news:43177c4a$0$63618$8046368a@newsreader.iphouse.net...
> also, "prego".

With or without garden vegetables?
 
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:10:09 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
<michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:

>"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
>news:43171249.14471280@news.telusplanet.net...
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:45:23 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah. I guess it being a Christian philosophy thing explains why the
>>>> connection between spirit and life escapes me, since if anything I
>>>> automatically think of them as being opposites. Why not just use
>>>> "Magic"? Given the description, that's what it is.
>>>
>>>Well, my primary reason would be that "Magic" is the overarching concept.
>>
>> As you describe it, so's the sphere. It's the catalyst that makes all
>> other spheres work, right?
>
>Not sure I understand you. (Only 1 cup of coffee today.)
>
>Can you say that again? Slowly? :)

Sure. Have a look at this bit from your original post.

>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then bring
>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell work,
>as you bend it according to your will.

It's the power source for everything right?
 
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"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
news:431727f3.20017527@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 17:10:09 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
>>news:43171249.14471280@news.telusplanet.net...
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 16:45:23 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>>> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah. I guess it being a Christian philosophy thing explains why the
>>>>> connection between spirit and life escapes me, since if anything I
>>>>> automatically think of them as being opposites. Why not just use
>>>>> "Magic"? Given the description, that's what it is.
>>>>
>>>>Well, my primary reason would be that "Magic" is the overarching
>>>>concept.
>>>
>>> As you describe it, so's the sphere. It's the catalyst that makes all
>>> other spheres work, right?
>>
>>Not sure I understand you. (Only 1 cup of coffee today.)
>>
>>Can you say that again? Slowly? :)
>
> Sure. Have a look at this bit from your original post.
>
>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>bring
>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>work,
>>as you bend it according to your will.
>
> It's the power source for everything right?

Ah! Gotcha! Yes, that's it. I see what you're saying now.

But I am still worried that people would be confused if I said "'magic' is
the effect of using your will to manipulate 'magic'."

Am I making any sense?
 
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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
<michael.hofer@cox.net> scribed into the ether:

>Okay, in my home-brew world, we have an elemental magic system. Here's a
>quick overview:
>
>- The primary arcane spell-casting class is the Mage. (No wizards; no
>sorcerers.)
>- Mages receive a number of channels as they progress in levels.
>- Each channel must be attuned to an elemental node before the Mage
> can use it to cast a spell.
>- Spells have specific node costs to cast. For example, a simple illusion
> might require 1 Light and 1 Dark. To add sound, you add an Air node.
>- There are 9 elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Light, Dark, Life, Death,
> and Spirit. (In this campaign setting, 9 is a very important number.
> It abounds everywhere.)
>
>(There is, of course, more to it than that, but it isn't relevant to this
>post.)
>
>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then bring
>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell work,
>as you bend it according to your will.
>
>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an earth
>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life. What if I wanted to summon
>an undead? Everything would break down at that point.

Substitute Earth with Death. Life + Death + Spirit(whatever) = Undead.
 
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 00:43:37 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
><michael.hofer@cox.net> scribed into the ether:
>
>>Okay, in my home-brew world, we have an elemental magic system. Here's a
>>quick overview:
>>
>>- The primary arcane spell-casting class is the Mage. (No wizards; no
>>sorcerers.)
>>- Mages receive a number of channels as they progress in levels.
>>- Each channel must be attuned to an elemental node before the Mage
>> can use it to cast a spell.
>>- Spells have specific node costs to cast. For example, a simple illusion
>> might require 1 Light and 1 Dark. To add sound, you add an Air node.
>>- There are 9 elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Light, Dark, Life, Death,
>> and Spirit. (In this campaign setting, 9 is a very important number.
>> It abounds everywhere.)
>>
>>(There is, of course, more to it than that, but it isn't relevant to this
>>post.)
>>
>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then bring
>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell work,
>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>
>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an earth
>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life. What if I wanted to summon
>>an undead? Everything would break down at that point.
>
>Substitute Earth with Death. Life + Death + Spirit(whatever) = Undead.

Actually substituting Death for Spirit seems like a good idea. That
means he wouldn't be sticking it into every freakin' spell, but that's
probably an improvement.
 
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"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
news:43174ce0.29471982@news.telusplanet.net...
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 00:43:37 GMT, Matt Frisch
> <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>><michael.hofer@cox.net> scribed into the ether:
>>
>>>Okay, in my home-brew world, we have an elemental magic system. Here's a
>>>quick overview:
>>>
>>>- The primary arcane spell-casting class is the Mage. (No wizards; no
>>>sorcerers.)
>>>- Mages receive a number of channels as they progress in levels.
>>>- Each channel must be attuned to an elemental node before the Mage
>>> can use it to cast a spell.
>>>- Spells have specific node costs to cast. For example, a simple illusion
>>> might require 1 Light and 1 Dark. To add sound, you add an Air node.
>>>- There are 9 elements: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Light, Dark, Life,
>>>Death,
>>> and Spirit. (In this campaign setting, 9 is a very important number.
>>> It abounds everywhere.)
>>>
>>>(There is, of course, more to it than that, but it isn't relevant to this
>>>post.)
>>>
>>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>>bring
>>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>>work,
>>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>>
>>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>>earth
>>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But
>>>then
>>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life. What if I wanted to
>>>summon
>>>an undead? Everything would break down at that point.
>>
>>Substitute Earth with Death. Life + Death + Spirit(whatever) = Undead.
>
> Actually substituting Death for Spirit seems like a good idea. That
> means he wouldn't be sticking it into every freakin' spell, but that's
> probably an improvement.

Agreed. It does sound like a great idea.

/em adds that to his list of things to do
 
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Werebat wrote:
>
> "Nakedladium" flows so much better...
>
> - Ron ^*^


Highly attractive allotrope of the element ladium, but can degenerate
to some other rather nasty allotropes as it ages.

Ladium often demonstrates Shiela Hiesenberger's Uncertainty Principle,
"Does this electron shell make my lower orbitals look too big?" There
is no right answer.


MadKaugh
 

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On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 14:02:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
<michael.hofer@cox.net> dared speak in front of ME:

>"David Johnston" <rgorman@block.net> wrote in message
>news:4316e2bd.2297170@news.telusplanet.net...
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:21:04 -0400, "Telendil Silverleaf"
>> <michael.hofer@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The idea is that you select the other two (or more) elements, and then
>>>bring
>>>this "Spirit" element to bear; it's the catalyst that makes the spell
>>>work,
>>>as you bend it according to your will.
>>>
>>>Now, the trouble arises when determining the node costs for Conjuration
>>>spells--specifically, Summon Monster. In this case, you have to use an
>>>earth
>>>and a life node, and I wanted to use Spirit for that added oomph. But then
>>>it hit me. To me, spirit is indicative of life.
>>
>> It shouldn't be. You already have Life to be indicative of life.
>
>Exactly. And that's the problem. I think that semantically, people will
>associate spirit with the living. (It's a Christian philosophy thing.)

I tend to associate it to something which transcends both "life" and
"death." As such, it would seem to be the perfect term for what
you're seeking.

But if you really wish to make a change, consider "Kia" - sort of a
synonym for spirit, but drawn from the terminology of chaos magick and
therefore divorced from your preconceptions, and yet still of
appropriate meaning.

(Though it might invoke images of small foreign cars...)
--
The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out
the conservative adopts them.
Samuel Clemens, "Notebook," 1935
 
G

Guest

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Repent Kaos!" said the Ticktockman. "Get Stuffed!" Kaos replied. Then he
added:

> So replace with Will.
> (Tho I still prefer Kia.)
>

Nah... too easy.

--
Billy Yank

Quinn: "I'm saying it's us, or them."
Murphy: "Well I choose them."
Q: "That's NOT an option!"
M: "Then you shouldn't have framed it as one."
-Sealab 2021

Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/