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Trying to figure out how to be clever...

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Anonymous
May 7, 2005 4:02:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

So I have this moderately successful weenie AUS Anarch Revolt deck (lots of
intercept, dodges, lots of AR's, Garlicks Legacy to become Anarchs, etc.)
the wants to play AR and block it's prey's attempts to go Anarch. Pretty
straight forward. Has done ok in practice.

I was trying a fringe Banishment angle (ya know, become a Baron, call
Banishment on your prey's token Anarch if he gets one at an inopportune
time) with, like, 2 Fee Stakes and 2 Banishments. There were countless
problems with this:

-Not enough cards to be a reliable angle.
-My biggest vampire is a 5, limiting who I can banish.
-No stealth, so easily blocked.

So I took out those 4 cards and want to replace them with weapons so I can
potentially block my prey's Anarch and torporize them instead (they go to
bleed, I Eagle's Sight, I Ivory Bow the mto torpor or something). This being
said, I have 4 slots. I still have no stealth (other than a single Railroad)
and no reliable stealth discipline. Currently, the 4 cards consist of:

1x Magnum
1x Ivory Bow
2x Jack of Both Sides

Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely to be
in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4 weapons,
and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.

Any other clever ideas?


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

More about : figure clever

Anonymous
May 7, 2005 4:02:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:
> So I took out those 4 cards and want to replace them with weapons so
I can
> potentially block my prey's Anarch and torporize them instead (they
go to
> bleed, I Eagle's Sight, I Ivory Bow the mto torpor or something).
This being
> said, I have 4 slots. I still have no stealth (other than a single
Railroad)
> and no reliable stealth discipline. Currently, the 4 cards consist
of:
>
> 1x Magnum
> 1x Ivory Bow
> 2x Jack of Both Sides
>
> Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely
to be
> in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
> Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4
weapons,
> and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.
>
> Any other clever ideas?

Since you're running a weenie deck, you might consider using
Filchware's Pawn Shop. If you try to equip and are blocked, you can try
again and again with all your vampires, at a slightly increased cost.
Plus, if someone else wants equipment, you can take it from them too on
the cheap.

Vast Wealth is another option.

Jeff
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 4:02:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:

> bleed, I Eagle's Sight,

Nose of the hound instead of eagles sight. I use those in mine to
catch the token anarch if they get the go anarch action off. Often
easier to rush them into torpor after they have spent 1/2 blood on
becoming an anarch.

G
Related resources
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 4:52:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I nearly forgot, what about that auc cel !Tor with a built in vast
wealth? Cristos Mantigo
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 6:28:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:

> Since you're running a weenie deck, you might consider using
> Filchware's Pawn Shop. If you try to equip and are blocked, you can try
> again and again with all your vampires, at a slightly increased cost.
> Plus, if someone else wants equipment, you can take it from them too on
> the cheap.

Interesting.

>
> Vast Wealth is another option.

Ohh, yeah--if I get blocked, I don't get the weapon, so I can try again next
turn without losing the gun. Huh. That might be clever enough.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 7:51:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Any other clever ideas?

If you're already talking about fringe, if you don't have Idalia in your
crypt, put her in. She gets +1 stealth when getting equipment. It slightly
improves the chances of shennanigans.

Ankur
Anonymous
May 7, 2005 9:47:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

why not play a combat discipline in addition to the auspex? aus/ani,
aus/vic, aus/cel, aus/for, aus/thaum, etc. Or maybe use some Ecstatic
Agony, assuming you could survive a round? Although that has the same
problem of needing steatlh, and less of the benefits of equipment. I
don't entirely see how you could fill up an entire deck with Anarch
Revolts and Auspex without being able to take out a few of each to make
room for another discipline...(?) Especially if you replaced the
dodges with some hit-back or with some stealth.

In fact, I think it'd be sweet to play something like Ecstatic Agony /
Masochism / Taste of Vitae and then something like Hidden Strength or
Martyr's Resillience. Could even use the Masochism to pay for, say,
Kiss of Ra or Pulse of the Canaille. Or for more mundane things like
Telepathic Misdirection and Sins of the Cauchemar. Of course, that's
adding a *lot* of stuff and is really a totally different deck. ;) 
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 4:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Ankur Gupta a écrit :
>> Any other clever ideas?
>
>
> If you're already talking about fringe, if you don't have Idalia in your
> crypt, put her in. She gets +1 stealth when getting equipment. It
> slightly improves the chances of shennanigans.

you've made a mistake : idalia untaps at the end of the turn after a
succesful equip action. She has no bonus stealth.

Maybe you should Try Raful Al Zarqa, she has AUS and can burn a blood
for one stealth once each action she performs :) 
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 2:24:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Chris Berger wrote:

> why not play a combat discipline in addition to the auspex?

Then there isn't enough Auspex to be able to reliably block every action
someone takes you want to block, and the crypt becomes a much bigger
animal--basically, it becomes a completely different deck. Currently, the
deck is something along the lines of:

~28 Master cards
~36 Auspex intercept cards
~10 Dodges (actually the auspex press to end/DODGE card)
~6 random extra cards

The crypt is like
2x 1 with aus
3x 3 with AUS
3x 4 with AUS
4x 5 with AUS

So I always have lots of AUS. There is probably another 4 I could use
instead of a 5, but the crypt hasn't been tweaked since I took out the Fee
Stakes.

> aus/ani,
> aus/vic, aus/cel, aus/for, aus/thaum, etc.

You lose the small inherrent AUS, and start making a deck that does more
stuff :-)

> don't entirely see how you could fill up an entire deck with Anarch
> Revolts and Auspex without being able to take out a few of each to make
> room for another discipline...(?) Especially if you replaced the
> dodges with some hit-back or with some stealth.

You need a lot of intercept to be able to reliably block everything you need
to block. I could theoretically turn the dodges into some kind of hit back
combat, but that would require a whole new, much bigger crypt.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 4:41:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:
> So I have this moderately successful weenie AUS Anarch Revolt deck (lots of
> intercept, dodges, lots of AR's, Garlicks Legacy to become Anarchs, etc.)
> the wants to play AR and block it's prey's attempts to go Anarch. Pretty
> straight forward. Has done ok in practice.

I had the same idea, but what to do after you have ousted your first
prey? By the time all your following preys usually will allready have an
anarch, but then again you can always swarm bleed like a regular AUS
deck. Another problem are combat decks as prey. If you loose a vampire
each time you block their go anarch actions (and dodges aren´t any
problem at all for a dedicated combat deck) you will not survive for
very long.

> I was trying a fringe Banishment angle (ya know, become a Baron, call
> Banishment on your prey's token Anarch if he gets one at an inopportune
> time) with, like, 2 Fee Stakes and 2 Banishments. There were countless
> problems with this:
>
> -Not enough cards to be a reliable angle.
> -My biggest vampire is a 5, limiting who I can banish.
> -No stealth, so easily blocked.

VERY sketchy. The main problem is the capacity limit. For passing the
vote I would prefer Dia de los Muertos.

> 1x Magnum
> 1x Ivory Bow
> 2x Jack of Both Sides
>
> Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely to be
> in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
> Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4 weapons,
> and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.

Drop the Jacks, if people have intercept they usually also have 2 of
them. I would go for:

1x Ivory Bow
2x Sniper Rifle
1x Weighted Walking Stick (or more if you can replace sth. else)

> Any other clever ideas?

Not sure if they were clever, but they are ideas at last.

--
johannes walch
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 4:41:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Johannes Walch wrote:

> I had the same idea, but what to do after you have ousted your first
> prey?

Sit on your extra pool, gain more from Momentum's Edge, and hope you can
accidentally get the last other guy at the table's token Anarch into torpor.
If you oust 1 prey and then are the last guy at the table, you win with 3
VPs.

> Drop the Jacks, if people have intercept they usually also have 2 of
> them. I would go for:

Reasonable.

>
> 1x Ivory Bow
> 2x Sniper Rifle
> 1x Weighted Walking Stick (or more if you can replace sth. else)

Huh. Not bad. Gotta get some Sniper Rifles...


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 7:51:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 08 May 2005 10:24:59 -0400, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:

>Chris Berger wrote:
>
>> why not play a combat discipline in addition to the auspex?
>
>Then there isn't enough Auspex to be able to reliably block every action
>someone takes you want to block, and the crypt becomes a much bigger
>animal--basically, it becomes a completely different deck. Currently, the
>deck is something along the lines of:
>
>~28 Master cards
>~36 Auspex intercept cards
>~10 Dodges (actually the auspex press to end/DODGE card)
>~6 random extra cards

Ten wakes?

>The crypt is like
>2x 1 with aus
>3x 3 with AUS
>3x 4 with AUS
>4x 5 with AUS
>
>So I always have lots of AUS. There is probably another 4 I could use
>instead of a 5, but the crypt hasn't been tweaked since I took out the Fee
>Stakes.
>
>> aus/ani,
>> aus/vic, aus/cel, aus/for, aus/thaum, etc.
>
>You lose the small inherrent AUS, and start making a deck that does more
>stuff :-)
>
>> don't entirely see how you could fill up an entire deck with Anarch
>> Revolts and Auspex without being able to take out a few of each to make
>> room for another discipline...(?) Especially if you replaced the
>> dodges with some hit-back or with some stealth.
>
>You need a lot of intercept to be able to reliably block everything you need
>to block. I could theoretically turn the dodges into some kind of hit back
>combat, but that would require a whole new, much bigger crypt.

Or enough card slots for Concealed Weapon/Saturday Night
Special/Dragon's Breath Rounds. Could not rely heavily on Concealed
Weapon since you plan on having a plethora of minions.

Rather than 36 transient(?) intercept cards, could run some permanent
intercept instead to free up slots, working with some theory of 1
permanent = N transients.

>Peter D Bakija
>pdb6@lightlink.com
>http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
>
>"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
>easily spilled liquids to naked people."
>-Brittni Meil
>
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 7:51:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

curevei@aol.commetal wrote:

> Ten wakes?

Oh, yeah, those are in there too. It is something like:

28 Master cards
10 Eagle's Sight
8 Enhanced
6 Telepathic Misdirection
6 Precog
6 Spirit's
10 Read Intention (the Aus Dodge?)
10 Forced
6 random cards (I think currently 2x Go Anarch, 2 weapon, 2 Jack of Both
Sides)

> Or enough card slots for Concealed Weapon/Saturday Night
> Special/Dragon's Breath Rounds. Could not rely heavily on Concealed
> Weapon since you plan on having a plethora of minions.

Ooh. DBR. Also not bad.

> Rather than 36 transient(?) intercept cards, could run some permanent
> intercept instead to free up slots, working with some theory of 1
> permanent = N transients.

Sure, but again, the "get blocked equipping" issue. And then the vampires
are also less dispoable. The guns do that too, but they really help get rid
of other pesky Anarchs on the table. Ooh! Maybe some Blowtorches?


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:50:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> 1x Magnum
> 1x Ivory Bow
> 2x Jack of Both Sides
>
> Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely to be
> in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
> Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4 weapons,
> and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.
>
> Any other clever ideas?
>

well go for the obf/aus angle and use disguised weapons (ivory boy,
sengir).
if you include malks play 1 or two muddled vampire hunters.
use precognition and 1 or 2 pulled fangs
play a few societys of leopold to remove your next preys token anarch
use smiling jack to win once the table is down to 3 players
millicent smith in conjunction with eagle sight can easily remove a vamp
(and this happens more often than one would expect)
forget about the railroad its a wasted master slot in a intercept deck

stefan
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 9:50:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Stefan Ferenci wrote:

> well go for the obf/aus angle and use disguised weapons (ivory boy,
> sengir).

Thought about that. Makes the crypt either much bigger or much less about
the inherrent AUS.

> if you include malks play 1 or two muddled vampire hunters.

Not bad. I have a couple in there (ya know, Zoe and Victoria), but then
comes the"get blocked" thing.

> use precognition and 1 or 2 pulled fangs

Reasonable.

> play a few societys of leopold to remove your next preys token anarch

Also reasonable.

> use smiling jack to win once the table is down to 3 players

Already doing that.

> millicent smith in conjunction with eagle sight can easily remove a vamp

Also already doing that.

> (and this happens more often than one would expect)
> forget about the railroad its a wasted master slot in a intercept deck

It's +1 stealth. If I want to get a gun or bleed or something, you can
always use +1 stealth. I mean, like, it probably isn't huge in the deck or
anything, but as the only provider of reliable stealth in the deck, ya know,
it can't hurt.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 10:19:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <BEA3997B.1F54A%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
>~28 Master cards
>~36 Auspex intercept cards
>~10 Dodges (actually the auspex press to end/DODGE card)
>~6 random extra cards
>
>The crypt is like
>2x 1 with aus
>3x 3 with AUS
>3x 4 with AUS
>4x 5 with AUS

Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?

We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
anything is suddenly dead!

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 10:19:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

James Coupe wrote:

> Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
>
> We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
> anything is suddenly dead!

That's why I have trouble! What was I possibly thinking! AAAAAAAA!

Ahem. Sorry.

:-)


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 10:48:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <BEA3C16B.1F551%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
<pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
>Sure, but again, the "get blocked equipping" issue. And then the vampires
>are also less dispoable. The guns do that too, but they really help get rid
>of other pesky Anarchs on the table. Ooh! Maybe some Blowtorches?

I like Blowtorch in theory but, in practise, find it to be a bit of a
pain - only 1 damage, and close range, and not a hand strike, makes it
quite easy to defend against. Ivory Bow is a better bet because
maneuvers don't help, for the same money as a Blowtorch, and would
certainly displace at least one Blowtorch.

Depending on how much ranged damage your environment sees, Improvised
Flamethrower might be an interesting possibility.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
Anonymous
May 8, 2005 11:46:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

James Coupe wrote:

> Ivory Bow is a better bet because
> maneuvers don't help, for the same money as a Blowtorch, and would
> certainly displace at least one Blowtorch.

Heh. Ivory Bow is actually *cheaper* than Blowtorch...

Anyways, after some mucking around, the deck currently looks like this:

"I Want To Destroy"

1x Raful al-Zarqua (6) AUS
1x Victoria (5) AUS
1x Miriam Benyona (5) AUS
1x Maldavis (4) AUS
1x Idalia (4) AUS
1x Richard Tauber (4) AUS
1x Remilard (4) AUS
1x Martin Franckel (3) AUS
1x Isabel (3) AUS
1x Zoe (3) AUS
1x Feo Ramos (1) aus
1x Franciscus (1) aus

9x Anarch Revolt
6x Galaric's Legacy
4x Blood Doll
2x Seattle Committee
2x Smiling Jack
1x Millicent Smith
1x Society of Leopold
1x Momentum's Edge
1x Anarch Railroad
1x Powerbase: Los Angeles

10x Read Intentions
10x Eagle's Sight
8x Enhanced Senses
6x Telepathic Misdirection
6x Precognition
6x Spirit's Touch
10x Forced Awakening
2x Go Anarch
2x Magnum
1x Ivory Bow
1x Blow Torch

Raful should clearly be Jost Werner, but I simply can't abide his portrait.
Feo would probably be better off as some 2 with aus, but he is funny, and I
like the symetry of him and Franciscus. There are a lot of masters and no
extra master phases, but 6 of the 28 are Trifles that can be turned into,
essentially, more Forceds later in the game with the PB:LA. The weapon angle
is certainly sketchy, due to it being difficult to equip them, but if I can
get one in play, it makes it much easier to whack someone's token Anarch (in
theory, your 1st prey never gets an Anarch as you block all the actions, and
when you oust him, you try and mangle any token Anarchs your next prey has
by blocking and shooting).

With the Millicent, Society, weapons, and Eagle's Sights, killing that
necessary Anarch is not that impossible. Momentum's Edge and Smiling Jack
make being the last guy standing after killing your first prey that much
more likely.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 12:26:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

talonz wrote:
> I nearly forgot, what about that auc cel !Tor with a built in vast
> wealth? Cristos Mantigo

Cristos merely moves the weapon to your hand, which still leaves the
question of getting it equipped onto a vampire.

Not a bad way to synergy with Jack of Both Sides; once you have Jack in
hand, fish for the weapon.

-John Flournoy
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 1:21:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:

Any other clever ideas?

Shortly after the announcement of
the change to Anarch Revolt I thought
of, and built this deck:

Tremere Anarchs Revolt

Almiro Suarez
2x Martin Franckel
Blythe Candeleria
2x Aisling Sturbridge
2x Eugenio Estevez
Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich
Javier Montoya
Anastaszdi Zagreb
Lucas Halton

The Anarch Free Press
3x Anarch Revolt
Arcane Library
4x Blood Doll
4X Galaric's Legacy
Powerbase: Monteal
The Rack
2x Rotschreck

6x Apportation
2x Aura Reading
2x Burst of Sunlight
2x Groundfighting
8x Theft of Vitae
2x Walk of Flame

Car Bomb
Delaying Tactics
5x Eagle's Sight
6x Enhanced Senses
10x Forced Awakening
2x Telepathic Counter
10x Telepathic Misdirection

Charnas the Imp

Anarch Secession
Fee Stake: Corte
Fee Stake: Perth
2x Nose of the Hound
2x Magic of the Smith
Rutor's Hand

2x .44 Magnum
The Ankara Citadel, Turkey
Bowl of Convergence
2x Flack Jacket
Ivory Bow
Palatial Estate
2x Sport Bike
------------------------
It's basic Tremere block stuff with the new Anarch Revolt angle thrown in.
I have not played this deck much, but have had success the few times it was
played.

feel free to rip it off,

Jay
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 5:24:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

James Coupe wrote:
> Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
>
> We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
> anything is suddenly dead!

Absolutely right. I tried that card for myself in various AUS decks and
it is very devastating to any stealth strategy. All in all a very
unecessary addition to the allready good selection of permanent
intercept. There was sport bike, a decent card with a cost and a good
use of +1 intercept. But the Bowl has only the small limitation of being
unique (and there are chances that you won´t need it anyway when your
prey/pred has it and wants to contest) and is much better. Ts.

--
johannes walch
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 3:23:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> "I Want To Destroy"

Don't we all.

> 1x Raful al-Zarqua (6) AUS

Still, should be Jost if you're going to use a 6-cap, but alas....

> 1x Victoria (5) AUS
> 1x Miriam Benyona (5) AUS
> 1x Maldavis (4) AUS
> 1x Idalia (4) AUS
> 1x Richard Tauber (4) AUS
> 1x Remilard (4) AUS
> 1x Martin Franckel (3) AUS
> 1x Isabel (3) AUS
> 1x Zoe (3) AUS
> 1x Feo Ramos (1) aus
> 1x Franciscus (1) aus
>
> 9x Anarch Revolt
> 6x Galaric's Legacy
> 4x Blood Doll
> 2x Seattle Committee
> 2x Smiling Jack
> 1x Millicent Smith
> 1x Society of Leopold
> 1x Momentum's Edge
> 1x Anarch Railroad
> 1x Powerbase: Los Angeles

So, instead of Anarch Railroad, what about Rotschreck? Since you are
blocking anyway, it's an easy way to remove a token Anarch from your
prey. I might even try to fit in two or three to get some good use out
of the blow torch. Another master to consider is Heidelberg. You can
move around equipment between actions to non-tapped minions, but with
ten wakes, it might not be worth it.

> 10x Read Intentions
> 10x Eagle's Sight
> 8x Enhanced Senses
> 6x Telepathic Misdirection
> 6x Precognition
> 6x Spirit's Touch
> 10x Forced Awakening
> 2x Go Anarch
> 2x Magnum
> 1x Ivory Bow
> 1x Blow Torch

Of course, the Bowl of Convergence, as stated earlier. What about
other permacept? How about an Atonement for those stuipd little weenie
decks? If not for those weenie decks, it's still +1 permacept. Also,
some Sniper Rifles should help you with the need for dodges. Might
throw in a couple of presses to hose those Press-Combat decks. I also
like the idea of a few Nose of the Hounds. (Can you tell that I've
built just a few of these?)

> Raful should clearly be Jost Werner, but I simply can't abide his
portrait.

Clearly.

> With the Millicent, Society, weapons, and Eagle's Sights, killing
that
> necessary Anarch is not that impossible. Momentum's Edge and Smiling
Jack
> make being the last guy standing after killing your first prey that
much
> more likely.

With Rotschrecks and Noses, it should be even easier, and if there is
someone else that isn't a token anarch (pesky Presence Vote Decks),
then you can take care of them, too.

Just my $0.02.
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 4:30:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Jay Kristoff" <jck@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mpvfe.12742$9n1.5648@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
> Shortly after the announcement of
> the change to Anarch Revolt I thought
> of, and built this deck:
....
> feel free to rip it off,

Oh, when you posted it on Usenet, many people immediately
felt free to rip it off. :-)

Fred
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 6:12:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:

> 1x Raful al-Zarqua (6) AUS
> 1x Victoria (5) AUS
> 1x Miriam Benyona (5) AUS
> 1x Maldavis (4) AUS
> 1x Idalia (4) AUS
> 1x Richard Tauber (4) AUS
> 1x Remilard (4) AUS
> 1x Martin Franckel (3) AUS
> 1x Isabel (3) AUS
> 1x Zoe (3) AUS
> 1x Feo Ramos (1) aus
> 1x Franciscus (1) aus

I believe group 1/2 would be slightly better. Maldavis has a
corner-case negative but it is still a negative, and Martin Franckel
has a big negative. If you replace them with Aleph (AUS) and Dorian
Strack (AUS) you'll be better off. You'd have to replace Feo (as funny
as he is) with Brazil, but he has no negative and is a Malk (along with
Aleph) giving you more incentive to throw in an aforemetioned Muddled.
Raful could become Ozmo (though we know it should be Jost).




Robert Scythe
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 9:47:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

mrjay1000 wrote:

> So, instead of Anarch Railroad, what about Rotschreck?

Not bad, the Rotschreck, in theory, but I'm still thinking that the Railroad
is worth using--that extra +1 stealth (and the only extra +1 stealth there
is...) could be huge in the long run, even if only to get a single bleed
through a turn (getting the edge and having Victoria in play in a deck like
this can be tremendous).

> Of course, the Bowl of Convergence, as stated earlier.

Unconvinced, really (all the oohing and ahhing over the Bowl, or at least
the oohing and aahing between me a Coupe is the result of a lengthy thread
from a few months back about how the Bowl was going to be the end of S+B
decks...), especially as it is unique, has to be equipped, and makes a
significant target--at least if I make a significant target by, like, giving
someone an Ivory Bow, they are a significant target with an Ivory Bow :-)

>Also, some Sniper Rifles should help you with the need for dodges.

Yeah, I gotta get me some of those. Somehow I own exactly zero Sniper Rifles
(I'll probably get some fromkevin at Origins :-)

>Might throw in a couple of presses to hose those Press-Combat decks.

Read Intentions is (Auspex) press to end/DODGE.

> I also
> like the idea of a few Nose of the Hounds. (Can you tell that I've
> built just a few of these?)

I'm unconvinced of the efficacy of these, really, in this kinda deck--you
get to block them, and I have very little combat--even with a gun, Nosing
into combat isn't going to accomplish that much, unless, I Nose a guy with,
like, 1 blood. I figure the Eagle's Sights'll do mostly the same thing, but
also bolster my defenses in every situation.

> Clearly.

(Raful vs Jost)--yeah, totally irrational, but I'm probably gonna stick with
Raful. If only Jost had a picture I liked better...

>Just my $0.02.

Always appreciated :-)


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 9, 2005 9:50:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert Scythe wrote:

> I believe group 1/2 would be slightly better. Maldavis has a
> corner-case negative but it is still a negative, and Martin Franckel
> has a big negative. If you replace them with Aleph (AUS) and Dorian
> Strack (AUS) you'll be better off. You'd have to replace Feo (as funny
> as he is) with Brazil, but he has no negative and is a Malk (along with
> Aleph) giving you more incentive to throw in an aforemetioned Muddled.
> Raful could become Ozmo (though we know it should be Jost).

Yeah, probably--G1 gives me the same number of (2: aus) options as G3, loses
a (3:AUS) and a (4: AUS) but gains two more (4:AUS) and loses Feo. Likely a
wash, really, but still, enjoying the symetry of the two1's.

I occasionally make some dumb and irrational crypt decisions...


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 12:57:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

I wrote:

>10x Telepathic Misdirection

that should be 6x.

sorry,

Jay
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 2:25:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Jay Kristoff wrote:
> Peter D Bakija wrote:
>
> Any other clever ideas?
>

> Car Bomb
> Delaying Tactics
> 5x Eagle's Sight
> 6x Enhanced Senses
> 10x Forced Awakening
> 2x Telepathic Counter
> 10x Telepathic Misdirection
>

i really advise everybody who plays a wall deck to play 5 telepathic
misdirections and 5 my enemys enemy instead of 10 telepathic
misdirection. the fact that the MEE cost no blood is often a game saver

stefan
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 5:08:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <d5m73m$9ed$1@news01.versatel.de>, Johannes Walch
<johannes.walch@vekn.de> writes:
>James Coupe wrote:
>> Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
>> We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
>> anything is suddenly dead!
>
>Absolutely right. I tried that card for myself in various AUS decks and
>it is very devastating to any stealth strategy.

.... any naive stealth strategy that doesn't also include such things as
Pentex Subversion or block cancellation or any one of a number of other
options available.

Decks which are 20 Govern the Unaligned, 20 Lost in Crowds and 20
Conditioning will die on their ass, of course.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 1:33:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Stefan wrote:
>no your group choice is great. the two 1 caps are great and the 2 3
caps
>with AUS are a cornerstone to a aus wall deck as well. jost werner is
>way to big for such a deck.

The point about Jost is that, well, I'm *already* using Raful (6 point
Nagaraja with AUS who can pay a blood for +1 stealth) when I should be
using Jost (exactly the same, for all intents and purposes as Raful,
but *always* has +1 stealth...) instead.

Granted, that slot could be replaced by a 5 with AUS (as I have all the
3's and 4's with AUS in the deck already), or a 2 with aus, but if I am
going to use a 5 with AUS at that point, I might as well bite the
bullet and use the 6 with AUS and +1 stealth.

-Peter
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 4:33:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Johannes Walch" <johannes.walch@vekn.de> schreef in bericht
news:D 5m73m$9ed$1@news01.versatel.de...
> James Coupe wrote:
>> Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
>>
>> We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
>> anything is suddenly dead!
>
> Absolutely right. I tried that card for myself in various AUS decks and it
> is very devastating to any stealth strategy. All in all a very unecessary
> addition to the allready good selection of permanent intercept. There was
> sport bike, a decent card with a cost and a good use of +1 intercept. But
> the Bowl has only the small limitation of being unique (and there are
> chances that you won´t need it anyway when your prey/pred has it and wants
> to contest) and is much better. Ts.
>
How exaclty does the Bowl help against: Seduction, Sleeping Mind, Elder
Impersonation, Form of Mist, etc...?
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 6:01:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Okay, I reread the thread's title and realize that you're only
'trying', against the advice of everybody's favorite inter-galactic
muppet. All of your arguments seem to be stating stuff like 'it's not
that bad','it won't be that significant' or 'if this happens and then
that happens it will have paid for itself'. I offered a crypt idea that
gets rid of the few negatives and will probably work a little better,
but I must realize that I am accepting the fact that you're still using
a vampire that, hands down, is obviously inferior to another (and
you've already pointed it out). So, since logic will not work in this
situation, I will just cuddle up to my poor little g1's (who were
actually better this time, really) and try to figure out how the Bakija
Gambit can be a viable strategy (since I just pulled it the other day
and still managed to win). 8P
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:06:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:

>
>
> Yeah, probably--G1 gives me the same number of (2: aus) options as G3, loses
> a (3:AUS) and a (4: AUS) but gains two more (4:AUS) and loses Feo. Likely a
> wash, really, but still, enjoying the symetry of the two1's.
>
> I occasionally make some dumb and irrational crypt decisions...
>
>
> Peter D Bakija
> pdb6@lightlink.com
> http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
>
> "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
> easily spilled liquids to naked people."
> -Brittni Meil
>

no your group choice is great. the two 1 caps are great and the 2 3 caps
with AUS are a cornerstone to a aus wall deck as well. jost werner is
way to big for such a deck.

stefab
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:06:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert Scythe wrote:

> Whoops, well there is that!

See--it is important to remember these things.

> That one (very occasional two)less bleed will come up when you really
> need it. Not often, but only when you really need it. And if they are
> gonna spend 3 blood to knock a little punk into torpor then so be it,
> but that's nearly as corner-case as her negative.

Sure--sometimes it might be an issue, but the gamble strikes me as worth it
on all the disads--I'll usually only have 1 vampire in play with a
significant issue (Feo, Martin, or Maldavis), and only very rarely will it
ever actually be important. I mean, like, yeah, ok, there is the possibility
that if I could bleed with Martin I'd win *right now*, but usually though,
it won't be that important. Again, it is a gamble, but one that strikes me
as certainly reasonable.

> I know I'll gladly pay one blood to stop a bleed or a potential blocker
> easily. If you have a Forced, then you have a Forced. It's still one
> less block no matter how you look at it.

If you remember to do so. And don't need that blood for something else.
Heck, if I get out Feo on T1, bleed my prey for 1, and then he spends the
rest of the game tapped, he has totally payed for himself in spades.

> And you realize that this stealth thing is also not all that needed.
> You should just forget the Raful/Jost thing all together, replace with
> Aleph, replace Maldavis with the ack-man and Feo with Brazil, average
> capacity is the same.

I'm still thinking that having the ability to get a bit of extra stealth in
there is worth more than it costs (1 master card and 1 six point vampire).
+1 intercept is a lot more common than +2 intercept (in the sense that a lot
of decks have reliable access to +1 intercept. A lot fewer decks have
reliable access to more than +1 intercept), meaning that havin an extra +1
stealth occasionally increases my chances of getting that weapon I want. And
if the +1 stealth means I can get 1 bleed of 1 through a turn (vs a deck
that has no intercept but is willing to block me), I can get the edge, and
have a reasonable chance of keeping the edge (especially late in the game),
which gains me 3 pool if I have Victoria in play. Seems reasonable to me.

> Again, there is that. o_O

See. All very important.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:45:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On Sun, 08 May 2005 13:11:05 -0400, Peter D Bakija <pdb6@lightlink.com>
wrote:

> It's +1 stealth. If I want to get a gun or bleed or something, you can
> always use +1 stealth. I mean, like, it probably isn't huge in the deck
> or
> anything, but as the only provider of reliable stealth in the deck, ya
> know,
> it can't hurt.

Well, if you are expending 2 pool and an MPA on a location, it might do
more than give you the occasional unsurprising stealth. You could use
Pentex Subversion in its stead, for example, or an Intercept location
(you could do more with a Channel 10 than with this) or a Hunting
Ground to gain more blood.

The mantra is: weenies never need stealth (except stealthy weenies, of
course).

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 10:46:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Daneel wrote:

> The mantra is: weenies never need stealth (except stealthy weenies, of
> course).

Well, ya know, unless you want to occasionally not be blocked when doing
something important.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 10, 2005 11:01:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 7 May 2005 17:47:47 -0700, Chris Berger <arkayn@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

> In fact, I think it'd be sweet to play something like Ecstatic Agony /
> Masochism / Taste of Vitae and then something like Hidden Strength or
> Martyr's Resillience. Could even use the Masochism to pay for, say,
> Kiss of Ra or Pulse of the Canaille. Or for more mundane things like
> Telepathic Misdirection and Sins of the Cauchemar. Of course, that's
> adding a *lot* of stuff and is really a totally different deck. ;) 

I really like the idea (been playing variants of such a deck for quite
some time). That is not a weenie deck, though. Investing pool in a
minion who then takes two actions just to set up calls for a more
potent main minion. I've been using (in various incarnations of the
deck) Dominique (great, often underrated special), Matthias (free
intercept, fringe SB defence), Egothha (free albeit erratic blood
gain) or Omaya (free prevent!!). Lessons in the Steel is just the
card for this deck, by the way.

However, if staying weenie, you cannot include sufficient Fortitude to
warrant the Masochisms and Lessons in the Steels, so you're stuck with
Ecstatic Agony... which isn't that good in itself, really. If you get
hit for one, you end up with a 2nd round strike for 2; Weighted
Walking Stick or Lucky Blow does that in round 1. If you get hit for
more, you probably end up in torpor anyway.

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 12:29:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <1115743441.168716.254800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
pdb6@lightlink.com writes:
>Yeah, Martin's disadvantage is really minimal in such a deck--yeah, he
>usually can't bleed, but rarely do you want all of your minions
>bleeding in any case, and it is easy enough to leave Martin at home. On
>the other hand, it is nice to have more 3's with AUS.

That does, potentially, hand more information to your predator/prey than
you might like. I have a backwards rush to throw at my predator to keep
him off my back. Which do I pick? Well, Martin makes it one step
easier.

Which is to say, if there was an obviously less hampered choice, I'd
choose it. But for keeping things low and since you're mostly about
intercept combat rather than swarm bleed... it's not so bad.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 1:58:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

In message <42811d1d$0$10578$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>, Stefan
Ferenci <nospam@thankyou.com> writes:
>as if a aus weenie wall deck couldnt block the rush and choose which
>minion will die. so this point is pretty unimportant.

There are ways and means around such things. Even rush decks can
include stealth, and an aggressive predator can make it difficult to
decide to block now when you've got a whole turn round the table to go.

However, whilst rush was one option, there are plenty of others - some
available as masters, others to aggressive stealth decks. A wall that
can block every single action is likely going to die on its ass for VPs
- and will miss the fact that it simply can't do this, with unblockable
actions being available.

The most obvious option for any deck worried about troublesome vampires,
even if temporarily and wanting to get something done this turn, is
Pentex Subversion. It is expensive, but useful. An early play of such
a card can certainly cause issues, even for a wall deck. Whoops, I
can't block with that one, so my other vampire goes down.

Assuming that a wall deck can block everything is the sort of play that
leads to... upsets - when someone breaks through it.

--
James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:01:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert Scythe wrote:

> Okay, I reread the thread's title and realize that you're only
> 'trying', against the advice of everybody's favorite inter-galactic
> muppet.

Uhh, wha?

>All of your arguments seem to be stating stuff like 'it's not
> that bad','it won't be that significant' or 'if this happens and then
> that happens it will have paid for itself'.

As is reasonable.

> I offered a crypt idea that
> gets rid of the few negatives and will probably work a little better,
> but I must realize that I am accepting the fact that you're still using
> a vampire that, hands down, is obviously inferior to another (and
> you've already pointed it out).

Yes, yes you did.

>So, since logic will not work in this
> situation, I will just cuddle up to my poor little g1's (who were
> actually better this time, really) and try to figure out how the Bakija
> Gambit can be a viable strategy (since I just pulled it the other day
> and still managed to win). 8P

I repeat--uh, wha? Really, I was looking for ideas on the inclusions and
implimentation of guns in this deck (as per the original post), but as the
conversation mutated into crypt discussion, it became a discussion of crypt
discussion.

I'm not entierly sure what he point of this particular post is.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 2:44:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

James Coupe wrote:
> In message <1115743441.168716.254800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
> pdb6@lightlink.com writes:
>
>>Yeah, Martin's disadvantage is really minimal in such a deck--yeah, he
>>usually can't bleed, but rarely do you want all of your minions
>>bleeding in any case, and it is easy enough to leave Martin at home. On
>>the other hand, it is nice to have more 3's with AUS.
>
>
> That does, potentially, hand more information to your predator/prey than
> you might like. I have a backwards rush to throw at my predator to keep
> him off my back. Which do I pick? Well, Martin makes it one step
> easier.
>

as if a aus weenie wall deck couldnt block the rush and choose which
minion will die. so this point is pretty unimportant.

stefan
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 5:50:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

James Coupe schrieb:
> In message <42811d1d$0$10578$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>, Stefan
> Ferenci <nospam@thankyou.com> writes:
> >as if a aus weenie wall deck couldnt block the rush and choose which
> >minion will die. so this point is pretty unimportant.
>
> There are ways and means around such things. Even rush decks can
> include stealth,

so you really think that a weenie aus wall deck has problems with the
occasional swalloed by the night.

> However, whilst rush was one option, there are plenty of others -
some
> available as masters, others to aggressive stealth decks. A wall
that
> can block every single action is likely going to die on its ass for
VPs
> - and will miss the fact that it simply can't do this, with
unblockable
> actions being available.
>

well except for TGB, all other options either send you to torpor (a
wall deck will appreciate this) or require you to equip first (you want
a flaming candle, shall i block this?)

> The most obvious option for any deck worried about troublesome
vampires,
> even if temporarily and wanting to get something done this turn, is
> Pentex Subversion. It is expensive, but useful. An early play of
such
> a card can certainly cause issues, even for a wall deck. Whoops, I
> can't block with that one, so my other vampire goes down.
>

most of the times a weenie aus wall deck will be mildy annoyed by a
Pentex Subversion (especially if it uses max 4 caps). weenies are
easily replacable.
btw i rarley see rush decks that pack pentex subversions.
but i agree that combat decks are a danger to wall decks so if your
prey has a rush deck at least martin frankel is save so you can stay
alive and wait for your time to come. so sometimes his disadvantage
become an advantage.

stefan
Anonymous
May 11, 2005 9:34:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:
> Robert Scythe wrote:
>
> > Okay, I reread the thread's title and realize that you're only
> > 'trying', against the advice of everybody's favorite inter-galactic
> > muppet.
>
> Uhh, wha?

Do, or do not. There is no try.

John
!