Trying to figure out how to be clever...

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

So I have this moderately successful weenie AUS Anarch Revolt deck (lots of
intercept, dodges, lots of AR's, Garlicks Legacy to become Anarchs, etc.)
the wants to play AR and block it's prey's attempts to go Anarch. Pretty
straight forward. Has done ok in practice.

I was trying a fringe Banishment angle (ya know, become a Baron, call
Banishment on your prey's token Anarch if he gets one at an inopportune
time) with, like, 2 Fee Stakes and 2 Banishments. There were countless
problems with this:

-Not enough cards to be a reliable angle.
-My biggest vampire is a 5, limiting who I can banish.
-No stealth, so easily blocked.

So I took out those 4 cards and want to replace them with weapons so I can
potentially block my prey's Anarch and torporize them instead (they go to
bleed, I Eagle's Sight, I Ivory Bow the mto torpor or something). This being
said, I have 4 slots. I still have no stealth (other than a single Railroad)
and no reliable stealth discipline. Currently, the 4 cards consist of:

1x Magnum
1x Ivory Bow
2x Jack of Both Sides

Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely to be
in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4 weapons,
and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.

Any other clever ideas?


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
43 answers Last reply
More about trying figure clever
  1. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:
    > So I took out those 4 cards and want to replace them with weapons so
    I can
    > potentially block my prey's Anarch and torporize them instead (they
    go to
    > bleed, I Eagle's Sight, I Ivory Bow the mto torpor or something).
    This being
    > said, I have 4 slots. I still have no stealth (other than a single
    Railroad)
    > and no reliable stealth discipline. Currently, the 4 cards consist
    of:
    >
    > 1x Magnum
    > 1x Ivory Bow
    > 2x Jack of Both Sides
    >
    > Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely
    to be
    > in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
    > Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4
    weapons,
    > and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.
    >
    > Any other clever ideas?

    Since you're running a weenie deck, you might consider using
    Filchware's Pawn Shop. If you try to equip and are blocked, you can try
    again and again with all your vampires, at a slightly increased cost.
    Plus, if someone else wants equipment, you can take it from them too on
    the cheap.

    Vast Wealth is another option.

    Jeff
  2. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:

    > bleed, I Eagle's Sight,

    Nose of the hound instead of eagles sight. I use those in mine to
    catch the token anarch if they get the go anarch action off. Often
    easier to rush them into torpor after they have spent 1/2 blood on
    becoming an anarch.

    G
  3. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    I nearly forgot, what about that auc cel !Tor with a built in vast
    wealth? Cristos Mantigo
  4. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:

    > Since you're running a weenie deck, you might consider using
    > Filchware's Pawn Shop. If you try to equip and are blocked, you can try
    > again and again with all your vampires, at a slightly increased cost.
    > Plus, if someone else wants equipment, you can take it from them too on
    > the cheap.

    Interesting.

    >
    > Vast Wealth is another option.

    Ohh, yeah--if I get blocked, I don't get the weapon, so I can try again next
    turn without losing the gun. Huh. That might be clever enough.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  5. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    > Any other clever ideas?

    If you're already talking about fringe, if you don't have Idalia in your
    crypt, put her in. She gets +1 stealth when getting equipment. It slightly
    improves the chances of shennanigans.

    Ankur
  6. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    why not play a combat discipline in addition to the auspex? aus/ani,
    aus/vic, aus/cel, aus/for, aus/thaum, etc. Or maybe use some Ecstatic
    Agony, assuming you could survive a round? Although that has the same
    problem of needing steatlh, and less of the benefits of equipment. I
    don't entirely see how you could fill up an entire deck with Anarch
    Revolts and Auspex without being able to take out a few of each to make
    room for another discipline...(?) Especially if you replaced the
    dodges with some hit-back or with some stealth.

    In fact, I think it'd be sweet to play something like Ecstatic Agony /
    Masochism / Taste of Vitae and then something like Hidden Strength or
    Martyr's Resillience. Could even use the Masochism to pay for, say,
    Kiss of Ra or Pulse of the Canaille. Or for more mundane things like
    Telepathic Misdirection and Sins of the Cauchemar. Of course, that's
    adding a *lot* of stuff and is really a totally different deck. ;)
  7. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Ankur Gupta a écrit :
    >> Any other clever ideas?
    >
    >
    > If you're already talking about fringe, if you don't have Idalia in your
    > crypt, put her in. She gets +1 stealth when getting equipment. It
    > slightly improves the chances of shennanigans.

    you've made a mistake : idalia untaps at the end of the turn after a
    succesful equip action. She has no bonus stealth.

    Maybe you should Try Raful Al Zarqa, she has AUS and can burn a blood
    for one stealth once each action she performs :)
  8. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Chris Berger wrote:

    > why not play a combat discipline in addition to the auspex?

    Then there isn't enough Auspex to be able to reliably block every action
    someone takes you want to block, and the crypt becomes a much bigger
    animal--basically, it becomes a completely different deck. Currently, the
    deck is something along the lines of:

    ~28 Master cards
    ~36 Auspex intercept cards
    ~10 Dodges (actually the auspex press to end/DODGE card)
    ~6 random extra cards

    The crypt is like
    2x 1 with aus
    3x 3 with AUS
    3x 4 with AUS
    4x 5 with AUS

    So I always have lots of AUS. There is probably another 4 I could use
    instead of a 5, but the crypt hasn't been tweaked since I took out the Fee
    Stakes.

    > aus/ani,
    > aus/vic, aus/cel, aus/for, aus/thaum, etc.

    You lose the small inherrent AUS, and start making a deck that does more
    stuff :-)

    > don't entirely see how you could fill up an entire deck with Anarch
    > Revolts and Auspex without being able to take out a few of each to make
    > room for another discipline...(?) Especially if you replaced the
    > dodges with some hit-back or with some stealth.

    You need a lot of intercept to be able to reliably block everything you need
    to block. I could theoretically turn the dodges into some kind of hit back
    combat, but that would require a whole new, much bigger crypt.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  9. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:
    > So I have this moderately successful weenie AUS Anarch Revolt deck (lots of
    > intercept, dodges, lots of AR's, Garlicks Legacy to become Anarchs, etc.)
    > the wants to play AR and block it's prey's attempts to go Anarch. Pretty
    > straight forward. Has done ok in practice.

    I had the same idea, but what to do after you have ousted your first
    prey? By the time all your following preys usually will allready have an
    anarch, but then again you can always swarm bleed like a regular AUS
    deck. Another problem are combat decks as prey. If you loose a vampire
    each time you block their go anarch actions (and dodges aren´t any
    problem at all for a dedicated combat deck) you will not survive for
    very long.

    > I was trying a fringe Banishment angle (ya know, become a Baron, call
    > Banishment on your prey's token Anarch if he gets one at an inopportune
    > time) with, like, 2 Fee Stakes and 2 Banishments. There were countless
    > problems with this:
    >
    > -Not enough cards to be a reliable angle.
    > -My biggest vampire is a 5, limiting who I can banish.
    > -No stealth, so easily blocked.

    VERY sketchy. The main problem is the capacity limit. For passing the
    vote I would prefer Dia de los Muertos.

    > 1x Magnum
    > 1x Ivory Bow
    > 2x Jack of Both Sides
    >
    > Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely to be
    > in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
    > Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4 weapons,
    > and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.

    Drop the Jacks, if people have intercept they usually also have 2 of
    them. I would go for:

    1x Ivory Bow
    2x Sniper Rifle
    1x Weighted Walking Stick (or more if you can replace sth. else)

    > Any other clever ideas?

    Not sure if they were clever, but they are ideas at last.

    --
    johannes walch
  10. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Johannes Walch wrote:

    > I had the same idea, but what to do after you have ousted your first
    > prey?

    Sit on your extra pool, gain more from Momentum's Edge, and hope you can
    accidentally get the last other guy at the table's token Anarch into torpor.
    If you oust 1 prey and then are the last guy at the table, you win with 3
    VPs.

    > Drop the Jacks, if people have intercept they usually also have 2 of
    > them. I would go for:

    Reasonable.

    >
    > 1x Ivory Bow
    > 2x Sniper Rifle
    > 1x Weighted Walking Stick (or more if you can replace sth. else)

    Huh. Not bad. Gotta get some Sniper Rifles...


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  11. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Sun, 08 May 2005 10:24:59 -0400, Peter D Bakija
    <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote:

    >Chris Berger wrote:
    >
    >> why not play a combat discipline in addition to the auspex?
    >
    >Then there isn't enough Auspex to be able to reliably block every action
    >someone takes you want to block, and the crypt becomes a much bigger
    >animal--basically, it becomes a completely different deck. Currently, the
    >deck is something along the lines of:
    >
    >~28 Master cards
    >~36 Auspex intercept cards
    >~10 Dodges (actually the auspex press to end/DODGE card)
    >~6 random extra cards

    Ten wakes?

    >The crypt is like
    >2x 1 with aus
    >3x 3 with AUS
    >3x 4 with AUS
    >4x 5 with AUS
    >
    >So I always have lots of AUS. There is probably another 4 I could use
    >instead of a 5, but the crypt hasn't been tweaked since I took out the Fee
    >Stakes.
    >
    >> aus/ani,
    >> aus/vic, aus/cel, aus/for, aus/thaum, etc.
    >
    >You lose the small inherrent AUS, and start making a deck that does more
    >stuff :-)
    >
    >> don't entirely see how you could fill up an entire deck with Anarch
    >> Revolts and Auspex without being able to take out a few of each to make
    >> room for another discipline...(?) Especially if you replaced the
    >> dodges with some hit-back or with some stealth.
    >
    >You need a lot of intercept to be able to reliably block everything you need
    >to block. I could theoretically turn the dodges into some kind of hit back
    >combat, but that would require a whole new, much bigger crypt.

    Or enough card slots for Concealed Weapon/Saturday Night
    Special/Dragon's Breath Rounds. Could not rely heavily on Concealed
    Weapon since you plan on having a plethora of minions.

    Rather than 36 transient(?) intercept cards, could run some permanent
    intercept instead to free up slots, working with some theory of 1
    permanent = N transients.

    >Peter D Bakija
    >pdb6@lightlink.com
    >http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
    >
    >"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    >easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    >-Brittni Meil
    >
  12. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    curevei@aol.commetal wrote:

    > Ten wakes?

    Oh, yeah, those are in there too. It is something like:

    28 Master cards
    10 Eagle's Sight
    8 Enhanced
    6 Telepathic Misdirection
    6 Precog
    6 Spirit's
    10 Read Intention (the Aus Dodge?)
    10 Forced
    6 random cards (I think currently 2x Go Anarch, 2 weapon, 2 Jack of Both
    Sides)

    > Or enough card slots for Concealed Weapon/Saturday Night
    > Special/Dragon's Breath Rounds. Could not rely heavily on Concealed
    > Weapon since you plan on having a plethora of minions.

    Ooh. DBR. Also not bad.

    > Rather than 36 transient(?) intercept cards, could run some permanent
    > intercept instead to free up slots, working with some theory of 1
    > permanent = N transients.

    Sure, but again, the "get blocked equipping" issue. And then the vampires
    are also less dispoable. The guns do that too, but they really help get rid
    of other pesky Anarchs on the table. Ooh! Maybe some Blowtorches?


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  13. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    > 1x Magnum
    > 1x Ivory Bow
    > 2x Jack of Both Sides
    >
    > Very sketchy, really, as the 2 Jacks are useless alone, but unlikely to be
    > in my hand when I need them to get the weapons. I could use a pair of
    > Concealeds, but I can't concealed the Bow. I could just put in 4 weapons,
    > and hope I can sneak at least 1 equip action through.
    >
    > Any other clever ideas?
    >

    well go for the obf/aus angle and use disguised weapons (ivory boy,
    sengir).
    if you include malks play 1 or two muddled vampire hunters.
    use precognition and 1 or 2 pulled fangs
    play a few societys of leopold to remove your next preys token anarch
    use smiling jack to win once the table is down to 3 players
    millicent smith in conjunction with eagle sight can easily remove a vamp
    (and this happens more often than one would expect)
    forget about the railroad its a wasted master slot in a intercept deck

    stefan
  14. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Stefan Ferenci wrote:

    > well go for the obf/aus angle and use disguised weapons (ivory boy,
    > sengir).

    Thought about that. Makes the crypt either much bigger or much less about
    the inherrent AUS.

    > if you include malks play 1 or two muddled vampire hunters.

    Not bad. I have a couple in there (ya know, Zoe and Victoria), but then
    comes the"get blocked" thing.

    > use precognition and 1 or 2 pulled fangs

    Reasonable.

    > play a few societys of leopold to remove your next preys token anarch

    Also reasonable.

    > use smiling jack to win once the table is down to 3 players

    Already doing that.

    > millicent smith in conjunction with eagle sight can easily remove a vamp

    Also already doing that.

    > (and this happens more often than one would expect)
    > forget about the railroad its a wasted master slot in a intercept deck

    It's +1 stealth. If I want to get a gun or bleed or something, you can
    always use +1 stealth. I mean, like, it probably isn't huge in the deck or
    anything, but as the only provider of reliable stealth in the deck, ya know,
    it can't hurt.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  15. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <BEA3997B.1F54A%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
    <pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
    >~28 Master cards
    >~36 Auspex intercept cards
    >~10 Dodges (actually the auspex press to end/DODGE card)
    >~6 random extra cards
    >
    >The crypt is like
    >2x 1 with aus
    >3x 3 with AUS
    >3x 4 with AUS
    >4x 5 with AUS

    Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?

    We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
    anything is suddenly dead!

    --
    James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
  16. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James Coupe wrote:

    > Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
    >
    > We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
    > anything is suddenly dead!

    That's why I have trouble! What was I possibly thinking! AAAAAAAA!

    Ahem. Sorry.

    :-)


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  17. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <BEA3C16B.1F551%pdb6@lightlink.com>, Peter D Bakija
    <pdb6@lightlink.com> writes:
    >Sure, but again, the "get blocked equipping" issue. And then the vampires
    >are also less dispoable. The guns do that too, but they really help get rid
    >of other pesky Anarchs on the table. Ooh! Maybe some Blowtorches?

    I like Blowtorch in theory but, in practise, find it to be a bit of a
    pain - only 1 damage, and close range, and not a hand strike, makes it
    quite easy to defend against. Ivory Bow is a better bet because
    maneuvers don't help, for the same money as a Blowtorch, and would
    certainly displace at least one Blowtorch.

    Depending on how much ranged damage your environment sees, Improvised
    Flamethrower might be an interesting possibility.

    --
    James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
  18. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James Coupe wrote:

    > Ivory Bow is a better bet because
    > maneuvers don't help, for the same money as a Blowtorch, and would
    > certainly displace at least one Blowtorch.

    Heh. Ivory Bow is actually *cheaper* than Blowtorch...

    Anyways, after some mucking around, the deck currently looks like this:

    "I Want To Destroy"

    1x Raful al-Zarqua (6) AUS
    1x Victoria (5) AUS
    1x Miriam Benyona (5) AUS
    1x Maldavis (4) AUS
    1x Idalia (4) AUS
    1x Richard Tauber (4) AUS
    1x Remilard (4) AUS
    1x Martin Franckel (3) AUS
    1x Isabel (3) AUS
    1x Zoe (3) AUS
    1x Feo Ramos (1) aus
    1x Franciscus (1) aus

    9x Anarch Revolt
    6x Galaric's Legacy
    4x Blood Doll
    2x Seattle Committee
    2x Smiling Jack
    1x Millicent Smith
    1x Society of Leopold
    1x Momentum's Edge
    1x Anarch Railroad
    1x Powerbase: Los Angeles

    10x Read Intentions
    10x Eagle's Sight
    8x Enhanced Senses
    6x Telepathic Misdirection
    6x Precognition
    6x Spirit's Touch
    10x Forced Awakening
    2x Go Anarch
    2x Magnum
    1x Ivory Bow
    1x Blow Torch

    Raful should clearly be Jost Werner, but I simply can't abide his portrait.
    Feo would probably be better off as some 2 with aus, but he is funny, and I
    like the symetry of him and Franciscus. There are a lot of masters and no
    extra master phases, but 6 of the 28 are Trifles that can be turned into,
    essentially, more Forceds later in the game with the PB:LA. The weapon angle
    is certainly sketchy, due to it being difficult to equip them, but if I can
    get one in play, it makes it much easier to whack someone's token Anarch (in
    theory, your 1st prey never gets an Anarch as you block all the actions, and
    when you oust him, you try and mangle any token Anarchs your next prey has
    by blocking and shooting).

    With the Millicent, Society, weapons, and Eagle's Sights, killing that
    necessary Anarch is not that impossible. Momentum's Edge and Smiling Jack
    make being the last guy standing after killing your first prey that much
    more likely.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  19. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    talonz wrote:
    > I nearly forgot, what about that auc cel !Tor with a built in vast
    > wealth? Cristos Mantigo

    Cristos merely moves the weapon to your hand, which still leaves the
    question of getting it equipped onto a vampire.

    Not a bad way to synergy with Jack of Both Sides; once you have Jack in
    hand, fish for the weapon.

    -John Flournoy
  20. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:

    Any other clever ideas?

    Shortly after the announcement of
    the change to Anarch Revolt I thought
    of, and built this deck:

    Tremere Anarchs Revolt

    Almiro Suarez
    2x Martin Franckel
    Blythe Candeleria
    2x Aisling Sturbridge
    2x Eugenio Estevez
    Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich
    Javier Montoya
    Anastaszdi Zagreb
    Lucas Halton

    The Anarch Free Press
    3x Anarch Revolt
    Arcane Library
    4x Blood Doll
    4X Galaric's Legacy
    Powerbase: Monteal
    The Rack
    2x Rotschreck

    6x Apportation
    2x Aura Reading
    2x Burst of Sunlight
    2x Groundfighting
    8x Theft of Vitae
    2x Walk of Flame

    Car Bomb
    Delaying Tactics
    5x Eagle's Sight
    6x Enhanced Senses
    10x Forced Awakening
    2x Telepathic Counter
    10x Telepathic Misdirection

    Charnas the Imp

    Anarch Secession
    Fee Stake: Corte
    Fee Stake: Perth
    2x Nose of the Hound
    2x Magic of the Smith
    Rutor's Hand

    2x .44 Magnum
    The Ankara Citadel, Turkey
    Bowl of Convergence
    2x Flack Jacket
    Ivory Bow
    Palatial Estate
    2x Sport Bike
    ------------------------
    It's basic Tremere block stuff with the new Anarch Revolt angle thrown in.
    I have not played this deck much, but have had success the few times it was
    played.

    feel free to rip it off,

    Jay
  21. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James Coupe wrote:
    > Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
    >
    > We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
    > anything is suddenly dead!

    Absolutely right. I tried that card for myself in various AUS decks and
    it is very devastating to any stealth strategy. All in all a very
    unecessary addition to the allready good selection of permanent
    intercept. There was sport bike, a decent card with a cost and a good
    use of +1 intercept. But the Bowl has only the small limitation of being
    unique (and there are chances that you won´t need it anyway when your
    prey/pred has it and wants to contest) and is much better. Ts.

    --
    johannes walch
  22. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    > "I Want To Destroy"

    Don't we all.

    > 1x Raful al-Zarqua (6) AUS

    Still, should be Jost if you're going to use a 6-cap, but alas....

    > 1x Victoria (5) AUS
    > 1x Miriam Benyona (5) AUS
    > 1x Maldavis (4) AUS
    > 1x Idalia (4) AUS
    > 1x Richard Tauber (4) AUS
    > 1x Remilard (4) AUS
    > 1x Martin Franckel (3) AUS
    > 1x Isabel (3) AUS
    > 1x Zoe (3) AUS
    > 1x Feo Ramos (1) aus
    > 1x Franciscus (1) aus
    >
    > 9x Anarch Revolt
    > 6x Galaric's Legacy
    > 4x Blood Doll
    > 2x Seattle Committee
    > 2x Smiling Jack
    > 1x Millicent Smith
    > 1x Society of Leopold
    > 1x Momentum's Edge
    > 1x Anarch Railroad
    > 1x Powerbase: Los Angeles

    So, instead of Anarch Railroad, what about Rotschreck? Since you are
    blocking anyway, it's an easy way to remove a token Anarch from your
    prey. I might even try to fit in two or three to get some good use out
    of the blow torch. Another master to consider is Heidelberg. You can
    move around equipment between actions to non-tapped minions, but with
    ten wakes, it might not be worth it.

    > 10x Read Intentions
    > 10x Eagle's Sight
    > 8x Enhanced Senses
    > 6x Telepathic Misdirection
    > 6x Precognition
    > 6x Spirit's Touch
    > 10x Forced Awakening
    > 2x Go Anarch
    > 2x Magnum
    > 1x Ivory Bow
    > 1x Blow Torch

    Of course, the Bowl of Convergence, as stated earlier. What about
    other permacept? How about an Atonement for those stuipd little weenie
    decks? If not for those weenie decks, it's still +1 permacept. Also,
    some Sniper Rifles should help you with the need for dodges. Might
    throw in a couple of presses to hose those Press-Combat decks. I also
    like the idea of a few Nose of the Hounds. (Can you tell that I've
    built just a few of these?)

    > Raful should clearly be Jost Werner, but I simply can't abide his
    portrait.

    Clearly.

    > With the Millicent, Society, weapons, and Eagle's Sights, killing
    that
    > necessary Anarch is not that impossible. Momentum's Edge and Smiling
    Jack
    > make being the last guy standing after killing your first prey that
    much
    > more likely.

    With Rotschrecks and Noses, it should be even easier, and if there is
    someone else that isn't a token anarch (pesky Presence Vote Decks),
    then you can take care of them, too.

    Just my $0.02.
  23. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Jay Kristoff" <jck@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
    news:mpvfe.12742$9n1.5648@tornado.ohiordc.rr.com...
    > Shortly after the announcement of
    > the change to Anarch Revolt I thought
    > of, and built this deck:
    ....
    > feel free to rip it off,

    Oh, when you posted it on Usenet, many people immediately
    felt free to rip it off. :-)

    Fred
  24. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:

    > 1x Raful al-Zarqua (6) AUS
    > 1x Victoria (5) AUS
    > 1x Miriam Benyona (5) AUS
    > 1x Maldavis (4) AUS
    > 1x Idalia (4) AUS
    > 1x Richard Tauber (4) AUS
    > 1x Remilard (4) AUS
    > 1x Martin Franckel (3) AUS
    > 1x Isabel (3) AUS
    > 1x Zoe (3) AUS
    > 1x Feo Ramos (1) aus
    > 1x Franciscus (1) aus

    I believe group 1/2 would be slightly better. Maldavis has a
    corner-case negative but it is still a negative, and Martin Franckel
    has a big negative. If you replace them with Aleph (AUS) and Dorian
    Strack (AUS) you'll be better off. You'd have to replace Feo (as funny
    as he is) with Brazil, but he has no negative and is a Malk (along with
    Aleph) giving you more incentive to throw in an aforemetioned Muddled.
    Raful could become Ozmo (though we know it should be Jost).


    Robert Scythe
  25. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    mrjay1000 wrote:

    > So, instead of Anarch Railroad, what about Rotschreck?

    Not bad, the Rotschreck, in theory, but I'm still thinking that the Railroad
    is worth using--that extra +1 stealth (and the only extra +1 stealth there
    is...) could be huge in the long run, even if only to get a single bleed
    through a turn (getting the edge and having Victoria in play in a deck like
    this can be tremendous).

    > Of course, the Bowl of Convergence, as stated earlier.

    Unconvinced, really (all the oohing and ahhing over the Bowl, or at least
    the oohing and aahing between me a Coupe is the result of a lengthy thread
    from a few months back about how the Bowl was going to be the end of S+B
    decks...), especially as it is unique, has to be equipped, and makes a
    significant target--at least if I make a significant target by, like, giving
    someone an Ivory Bow, they are a significant target with an Ivory Bow :-)

    >Also, some Sniper Rifles should help you with the need for dodges.

    Yeah, I gotta get me some of those. Somehow I own exactly zero Sniper Rifles
    (I'll probably get some fromkevin at Origins :-)

    >Might throw in a couple of presses to hose those Press-Combat decks.

    Read Intentions is (Auspex) press to end/DODGE.

    > I also
    > like the idea of a few Nose of the Hounds. (Can you tell that I've
    > built just a few of these?)

    I'm unconvinced of the efficacy of these, really, in this kinda deck--you
    get to block them, and I have very little combat--even with a gun, Nosing
    into combat isn't going to accomplish that much, unless, I Nose a guy with,
    like, 1 blood. I figure the Eagle's Sights'll do mostly the same thing, but
    also bolster my defenses in every situation.

    > Clearly.

    (Raful vs Jost)--yeah, totally irrational, but I'm probably gonna stick with
    Raful. If only Jost had a picture I liked better...

    >Just my $0.02.

    Always appreciated :-)


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  26. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Robert Scythe wrote:

    > I believe group 1/2 would be slightly better. Maldavis has a
    > corner-case negative but it is still a negative, and Martin Franckel
    > has a big negative. If you replace them with Aleph (AUS) and Dorian
    > Strack (AUS) you'll be better off. You'd have to replace Feo (as funny
    > as he is) with Brazil, but he has no negative and is a Malk (along with
    > Aleph) giving you more incentive to throw in an aforemetioned Muddled.
    > Raful could become Ozmo (though we know it should be Jost).

    Yeah, probably--G1 gives me the same number of (2: aus) options as G3, loses
    a (3:AUS) and a (4: AUS) but gains two more (4:AUS) and loses Feo. Likely a
    wash, really, but still, enjoying the symetry of the two1's.

    I occasionally make some dumb and irrational crypt decisions...


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  27. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    I wrote:

    >10x Telepathic Misdirection

    that should be 6x.

    sorry,

    Jay
  28. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Jay Kristoff wrote:
    > Peter D Bakija wrote:
    >
    > Any other clever ideas?
    >

    > Car Bomb
    > Delaying Tactics
    > 5x Eagle's Sight
    > 6x Enhanced Senses
    > 10x Forced Awakening
    > 2x Telepathic Counter
    > 10x Telepathic Misdirection
    >

    i really advise everybody who plays a wall deck to play 5 telepathic
    misdirections and 5 my enemys enemy instead of 10 telepathic
    misdirection. the fact that the MEE cost no blood is often a game saver

    stefan
  29. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <d5m73m$9ed$1@news01.versatel.de>, Johannes Walch
    <johannes.walch@vekn.de> writes:
    >James Coupe wrote:
    >> Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
    >> We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
    >> anything is suddenly dead!
    >
    >Absolutely right. I tried that card for myself in various AUS decks and
    >it is very devastating to any stealth strategy.

    .... any naive stealth strategy that doesn't also include such things as
    Pentex Subversion or block cancellation or any one of a number of other
    options available.

    Decks which are 20 Govern the Unaligned, 20 Lost in Crowds and 20
    Conditioning will die on their ass, of course.

    --
    James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
  30. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Stefan wrote:
    >no your group choice is great. the two 1 caps are great and the 2 3
    caps
    >with AUS are a cornerstone to a aus wall deck as well. jost werner is
    >way to big for such a deck.

    The point about Jost is that, well, I'm *already* using Raful (6 point
    Nagaraja with AUS who can pay a blood for +1 stealth) when I should be
    using Jost (exactly the same, for all intents and purposes as Raful,
    but *always* has +1 stealth...) instead.

    Granted, that slot could be replaced by a 5 with AUS (as I have all the
    3's and 4's with AUS in the deck already), or a 2 with aus, but if I am
    going to use a 5 with AUS at that point, I might as well bite the
    bullet and use the 6 with AUS and +1 stealth.

    -Peter
  31. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    "Johannes Walch" <johannes.walch@vekn.de> schreef in bericht
    news:d5m73m$9ed$1@news01.versatel.de...
    > James Coupe wrote:
    >> Dude! What do you mean, no Bowl of Convergence?
    >>
    >> We all know that if the Bowl of Convergence comes out, anyone doing
    >> anything is suddenly dead!
    >
    > Absolutely right. I tried that card for myself in various AUS decks and it
    > is very devastating to any stealth strategy. All in all a very unecessary
    > addition to the allready good selection of permanent intercept. There was
    > sport bike, a decent card with a cost and a good use of +1 intercept. But
    > the Bowl has only the small limitation of being unique (and there are
    > chances that you won´t need it anyway when your prey/pred has it and wants
    > to contest) and is much better. Ts.
    >
    How exaclty does the Bowl help against: Seduction, Sleeping Mind, Elder
    Impersonation, Form of Mist, etc...?
  32. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Okay, I reread the thread's title and realize that you're only
    'trying', against the advice of everybody's favorite inter-galactic
    muppet. All of your arguments seem to be stating stuff like 'it's not
    that bad','it won't be that significant' or 'if this happens and then
    that happens it will have paid for itself'. I offered a crypt idea that
    gets rid of the few negatives and will probably work a little better,
    but I must realize that I am accepting the fact that you're still using
    a vampire that, hands down, is obviously inferior to another (and
    you've already pointed it out). So, since logic will not work in this
    situation, I will just cuddle up to my poor little g1's (who were
    actually better this time, really) and try to figure out how the Bakija
    Gambit can be a viable strategy (since I just pulled it the other day
    and still managed to win). 8P
  33. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:

    >
    >
    > Yeah, probably--G1 gives me the same number of (2: aus) options as G3, loses
    > a (3:AUS) and a (4: AUS) but gains two more (4:AUS) and loses Feo. Likely a
    > wash, really, but still, enjoying the symetry of the two1's.
    >
    > I occasionally make some dumb and irrational crypt decisions...
    >
    >
    > Peter D Bakija
    > pdb6@lightlink.com
    > http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6
    >
    > "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    > easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    > -Brittni Meil
    >

    no your group choice is great. the two 1 caps are great and the 2 3 caps
    with AUS are a cornerstone to a aus wall deck as well. jost werner is
    way to big for such a deck.

    stefab
  34. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Robert Scythe wrote:

    > Whoops, well there is that!

    See--it is important to remember these things.

    > That one (very occasional two)less bleed will come up when you really
    > need it. Not often, but only when you really need it. And if they are
    > gonna spend 3 blood to knock a little punk into torpor then so be it,
    > but that's nearly as corner-case as her negative.

    Sure--sometimes it might be an issue, but the gamble strikes me as worth it
    on all the disads--I'll usually only have 1 vampire in play with a
    significant issue (Feo, Martin, or Maldavis), and only very rarely will it
    ever actually be important. I mean, like, yeah, ok, there is the possibility
    that if I could bleed with Martin I'd win *right now*, but usually though,
    it won't be that important. Again, it is a gamble, but one that strikes me
    as certainly reasonable.

    > I know I'll gladly pay one blood to stop a bleed or a potential blocker
    > easily. If you have a Forced, then you have a Forced. It's still one
    > less block no matter how you look at it.

    If you remember to do so. And don't need that blood for something else.
    Heck, if I get out Feo on T1, bleed my prey for 1, and then he spends the
    rest of the game tapped, he has totally payed for himself in spades.

    > And you realize that this stealth thing is also not all that needed.
    > You should just forget the Raful/Jost thing all together, replace with
    > Aleph, replace Maldavis with the ack-man and Feo with Brazil, average
    > capacity is the same.

    I'm still thinking that having the ability to get a bit of extra stealth in
    there is worth more than it costs (1 master card and 1 six point vampire).
    +1 intercept is a lot more common than +2 intercept (in the sense that a lot
    of decks have reliable access to +1 intercept. A lot fewer decks have
    reliable access to more than +1 intercept), meaning that havin an extra +1
    stealth occasionally increases my chances of getting that weapon I want. And
    if the +1 stealth means I can get 1 bleed of 1 through a turn (vs a deck
    that has no intercept but is willing to block me), I can get the edge, and
    have a reasonable chance of keeping the edge (especially late in the game),
    which gains me 3 pool if I have Victoria in play. Seems reasonable to me.

    > Again, there is that. o_O

    See. All very important.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  35. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On Sun, 08 May 2005 13:11:05 -0400, Peter D Bakija <pdb6@lightlink.com>
    wrote:

    > It's +1 stealth. If I want to get a gun or bleed or something, you can
    > always use +1 stealth. I mean, like, it probably isn't huge in the deck
    > or
    > anything, but as the only provider of reliable stealth in the deck, ya
    > know,
    > it can't hurt.

    Well, if you are expending 2 pool and an MPA on a location, it might do
    more than give you the occasional unsurprising stealth. You could use
    Pentex Subversion in its stead, for example, or an Intercept location
    (you could do more with a Channel 10 than with this) or a Hunting
    Ground to gain more blood.

    The mantra is: weenies never need stealth (except stealthy weenies, of
    course).

    --
    Bye,

    Daneel
  36. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Daneel wrote:

    > The mantra is: weenies never need stealth (except stealthy weenies, of
    > course).

    Well, ya know, unless you want to occasionally not be blocked when doing
    something important.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  37. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    On 7 May 2005 17:47:47 -0700, Chris Berger <arkayn@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:

    > In fact, I think it'd be sweet to play something like Ecstatic Agony /
    > Masochism / Taste of Vitae and then something like Hidden Strength or
    > Martyr's Resillience. Could even use the Masochism to pay for, say,
    > Kiss of Ra or Pulse of the Canaille. Or for more mundane things like
    > Telepathic Misdirection and Sins of the Cauchemar. Of course, that's
    > adding a *lot* of stuff and is really a totally different deck. ;)

    I really like the idea (been playing variants of such a deck for quite
    some time). That is not a weenie deck, though. Investing pool in a
    minion who then takes two actions just to set up calls for a more
    potent main minion. I've been using (in various incarnations of the
    deck) Dominique (great, often underrated special), Matthias (free
    intercept, fringe SB defence), Egothha (free albeit erratic blood
    gain) or Omaya (free prevent!!). Lessons in the Steel is just the
    card for this deck, by the way.

    However, if staying weenie, you cannot include sufficient Fortitude to
    warrant the Masochisms and Lessons in the Steels, so you're stuck with
    Ecstatic Agony... which isn't that good in itself, really. If you get
    hit for one, you end up with a 2nd round strike for 2; Weighted
    Walking Stick or Lucky Blow does that in round 1. If you get hit for
    more, you probably end up in torpor anyway.

    --
    Bye,

    Daneel
  38. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <1115743441.168716.254800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    pdb6@lightlink.com writes:
    >Yeah, Martin's disadvantage is really minimal in such a deck--yeah, he
    >usually can't bleed, but rarely do you want all of your minions
    >bleeding in any case, and it is easy enough to leave Martin at home. On
    >the other hand, it is nice to have more 3's with AUS.

    That does, potentially, hand more information to your predator/prey than
    you might like. I have a backwards rush to throw at my predator to keep
    him off my back. Which do I pick? Well, Martin makes it one step
    easier.

    Which is to say, if there was an obviously less hampered choice, I'd
    choose it. But for keeping things low and since you're mostly about
    intercept combat rather than swarm bleed... it's not so bad.

    --
    James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
  39. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    In message <42811d1d$0$10578$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>, Stefan
    Ferenci <nospam@thankyou.com> writes:
    >as if a aus weenie wall deck couldnt block the rush and choose which
    >minion will die. so this point is pretty unimportant.

    There are ways and means around such things. Even rush decks can
    include stealth, and an aggressive predator can make it difficult to
    decide to block now when you've got a whole turn round the table to go.

    However, whilst rush was one option, there are plenty of others - some
    available as masters, others to aggressive stealth decks. A wall that
    can block every single action is likely going to die on its ass for VPs
    - and will miss the fact that it simply can't do this, with unblockable
    actions being available.

    The most obvious option for any deck worried about troublesome vampires,
    even if temporarily and wanting to get something done this turn, is
    Pentex Subversion. It is expensive, but useful. An early play of such
    a card can certainly cause issues, even for a wall deck. Whoops, I
    can't block with that one, so my other vampire goes down.

    Assuming that a wall deck can block everything is the sort of play that
    leads to... upsets - when someone breaks through it.

    --
    James Coupe "Why do so many talented people turn out to be sexual
    PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D deviants? Why can't they just be normal like me and
    EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 look at internet pictures of men's cocks all day?"
    13D7E668C3695D623D5D -- www.livejournal.com/users/scarletdemon/
  40. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Robert Scythe wrote:

    > Okay, I reread the thread's title and realize that you're only
    > 'trying', against the advice of everybody's favorite inter-galactic
    > muppet.

    Uhh, wha?

    >All of your arguments seem to be stating stuff like 'it's not
    > that bad','it won't be that significant' or 'if this happens and then
    > that happens it will have paid for itself'.

    As is reasonable.

    > I offered a crypt idea that
    > gets rid of the few negatives and will probably work a little better,
    > but I must realize that I am accepting the fact that you're still using
    > a vampire that, hands down, is obviously inferior to another (and
    > you've already pointed it out).

    Yes, yes you did.

    >So, since logic will not work in this
    > situation, I will just cuddle up to my poor little g1's (who were
    > actually better this time, really) and try to figure out how the Bakija
    > Gambit can be a viable strategy (since I just pulled it the other day
    > and still managed to win). 8P

    I repeat--uh, wha? Really, I was looking for ideas on the inclusions and
    implimentation of guns in this deck (as per the original post), but as the
    conversation mutated into crypt discussion, it became a discussion of crypt
    discussion.

    I'm not entierly sure what he point of this particular post is.


    Peter D Bakija
    pdb6@lightlink.com
    http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

    "So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
    easily spilled liquids to naked people."
    -Brittni Meil
  41. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James Coupe wrote:
    > In message <1115743441.168716.254800@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    > pdb6@lightlink.com writes:
    >
    >>Yeah, Martin's disadvantage is really minimal in such a deck--yeah, he
    >>usually can't bleed, but rarely do you want all of your minions
    >>bleeding in any case, and it is easy enough to leave Martin at home. On
    >>the other hand, it is nice to have more 3's with AUS.
    >
    >
    > That does, potentially, hand more information to your predator/prey than
    > you might like. I have a backwards rush to throw at my predator to keep
    > him off my back. Which do I pick? Well, Martin makes it one step
    > easier.
    >

    as if a aus weenie wall deck couldnt block the rush and choose which
    minion will die. so this point is pretty unimportant.

    stefan
  42. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    James Coupe schrieb:
    > In message <42811d1d$0$10578$3b214f66@usenet.univie.ac.at>, Stefan
    > Ferenci <nospam@thankyou.com> writes:
    > >as if a aus weenie wall deck couldnt block the rush and choose which
    > >minion will die. so this point is pretty unimportant.
    >
    > There are ways and means around such things. Even rush decks can
    > include stealth,

    so you really think that a weenie aus wall deck has problems with the
    occasional swalloed by the night.

    > However, whilst rush was one option, there are plenty of others -
    some
    > available as masters, others to aggressive stealth decks. A wall
    that
    > can block every single action is likely going to die on its ass for
    VPs
    > - and will miss the fact that it simply can't do this, with
    unblockable
    > actions being available.
    >

    well except for TGB, all other options either send you to torpor (a
    wall deck will appreciate this) or require you to equip first (you want
    a flaming candle, shall i block this?)

    > The most obvious option for any deck worried about troublesome
    vampires,
    > even if temporarily and wanting to get something done this turn, is
    > Pentex Subversion. It is expensive, but useful. An early play of
    such
    > a card can certainly cause issues, even for a wall deck. Whoops, I
    > can't block with that one, so my other vampire goes down.
    >

    most of the times a weenie aus wall deck will be mildy annoyed by a
    Pentex Subversion (especially if it uses max 4 caps). weenies are
    easily replacable.
    btw i rarley see rush decks that pack pentex subversions.
    but i agree that combat decks are a danger to wall decks so if your
    prey has a rush deck at least martin frankel is save so you can stay
    alive and wait for your time to come. so sometimes his disadvantage
    become an advantage.

    stefan
  43. Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

    Peter D Bakija wrote:
    > Robert Scythe wrote:
    >
    > > Okay, I reread the thread's title and realize that you're only
    > > 'trying', against the advice of everybody's favorite inter-galactic
    > > muppet.
    >
    > Uhh, wha?

    Do, or do not. There is no try.

    John
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