Conducted a Demo Last Night

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I conducted a Demo last night at The Game Chest in the Valley View Mall
in Dallas. I thought I would relate my experiences in case anyone else
ends up doing it. The Game Chest has a game room at the back of the
store, and that is probably where they wanted me, but I figured I
wasn't going to get much action back there behind closed doors where no
one could see me.

They had a nice large Chess table setup in the doorway of their mall
entrance. I asked if I could commandeer it for demo purposes and they
agreed. So I cleared the chess pieces off of the large table and spread
out some VTES cards. I then sat down, read my book, and waited. The set
up at the front of the store invited people to look and if they did,
then I started talking about the game and offered them a free deck if
they wanted to play.

One girl and her boyfriend seemed really interested. He was a MtG
player and she, by the nature of her dress, was undoubtably a Goth a
heart. I decribed the game to her and she seemed really interested, but
said that she wanted to think about it. She asked when I was around and
I said that I tend to do demos every Thursday. As she left, she told me
she would definitely be back.

Later, a MtG player expressed interest. I told him, as I tell everyone,
that this was Richard Garfield's second CCG and that if he understood
the mechanics of MtG than this would be a snap. He was playing in no
time. And then another person seemed interested. At this point we
relocated from the Chess table back to the back of the store. Everybody
had a good time, I gave them their demo decks and rulebooks, got their
contact information, and will try to work them into the local
playgroup. (Time for the Barbed Wire Project!)

At any rate, I just wanted to say from having done a couple of these
that signage really doesn't seem to matter all that much. Game stores
have a ton of stuff on the walls and people hardly seem to take notice.
I think the key is just to secure a table in a key location and spread
out the cards so people and see the art. Then just wait for people to
take interest. I think that putting up a sign at the demo saying, "Come
learn VTES. Free cards!" might tend to be a draw too. I need to put one
together.

Cheers,
Preston
 
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Preston wrote:
> Later, a MtG player expressed interest. I told him, as I tell everyone,
> that this was Richard Garfield's second CCG and that if he understood
> the mechanics of MtG than this would be a snap. He was playing in no
> time. And then another person seemed interested. At this point we
> relocated from the Chess table back to the back of the store. Everybody
> had a good time, I gave them their demo decks and rulebooks, got their
> contact information, and will try to work them into the local
> playgroup. (Time for the Barbed Wire Project!)
>
> At any rate, I just wanted to say from having done a couple of these
> that signage really doesn't seem to matter all that much. Game stores
> have a ton of stuff on the walls and people hardly seem to take notice.
> I think the key is just to secure a table in a key location and spread
> out the cards so people and see the art. Then just wait for people to
> take interest. I think that putting up a sign at the demo saying, "Come
> learn VTES. Free cards!" might tend to be a draw too. I need to put one
> together.

One thing that I have noticed in general with your Barbed Wire Project
decks is that they do seem to be populated with sub-par cards. For
example, Undead Strength is considered to be better than Mighty
Grapple.

I think part of the issue most folks are having when giving assistance
to your decks is that they are thinking of staples being any commons.
It seems to me that you have a stated, limited number of commons
available. On some level, you're looking for a way to use these subpar
cards and giving them away in BWP decks is a good use for them,
especially if it draws more players into the game.

I'd guess this is also the main reason we're not seeing Blood Dolls and
Wakes in every single deck: You just don't have the cards. That's just
a simple matter of resources and nothing else. You're trying to make
the best possible with what you have.

Now, perhaps it would help those who are giving advice to know what
cards are "off limits" as far as deck construction. No Dolls? No Wakes?
No Rares? No choice Uncommons? Etc. We're actually doing a similar
exercise locally with "Type VP" which is a variant of limited where you
can add certain non-reprinted cards to a sealed deck though our goal is
fun limited play rather than demo-ing for new players.

I've tried to tailor my comments with my take on your perspective in
mind. I know there are people out there with dozens of extra Undead
Strength, but if you've only got 6-8 yourself, you probably can't
afford to part with them.

Good luck with it at any rate. I can't wait to see the Assamite BWP
deck. ;)

Jeff
 
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Hey Jeff,

I appreciated that. Actually, I have a ton of blood dolls, I just don't
use them. I would have no qualms about putting them into any of the BWP
decks. The thing is, I personally don't really see a whole lot of value
in the card. I know that makes me either dense, stubborn, or contrary
in a lof of people's estimation and they are probably right come to
think of it.

But, all I can do is playtest the decks I make and see what works. I
included a couple of Blood Dolls in the BWP: Tremere deck, but ended up
taking them out because they didn't seem that useful. For instance, I
would bring out Lydia Van Cuelen, given her superior Thaumatugy and
have her start bleeding away. With her bleed potential, people block,
and then she fights. If the fight is a real fight and not a S:CE then
she is either going to emerge the victor with one or two blood or she
is going down herself. In these cases, Blood Dolls only function seems
to be giving blood to her, which is not exactly game breaking.

Now, sure, one could give a Blood Doll to a weenie and have them hunt
every turn, but I would rather just given them a superior skill card
and have then bleed for one in the old Bruise Bleed fashion. I do
remember a time when I really liked Blood Doll, but that was in a
metagame environment where combat seemed to be just bouncing- we would
both S: CE and untap and go on about out business. In a more combat
oriented environment like the one I see in Dallas, the card just seems
or limited value.

But that's just me. People are encourage to take these decks (or
anything I post for that matter) and make as much or as little as they
want of it.

Preston
 
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Also, I wanted to comment on this.
"One thing that I have noticed in general with your Barbed Wire Project

decks is that they do seem to be populated with sub-par cards. For
example, Undead Strength is considered to be better than Mighty
Grapple. "

True. When I started making decks to give away, I was like, OK, time to
use these stupid cards I never play with. But then, as I began to play
the decks myself I started to find a new respect for them. Might
Grapple in particular began to seem pretty damn good. It's only one
point less than US, and you get a press to hit them again. "Wow," I
though when I first pressed to continue to second round, "That's kinda
cool!"

Of course, this is a problem I have in other CCGs. I tend to like
underdog cards. For instance, I was recently thinking about how to use
inferior potence. The problem with US is that it's really just a Lucky
Blow at inferior and lacks the power to even put down a chump blocker
that they threw in front of Koko. But, using Might Grapple with Growing
Fury, you can press to continue and end up inflicting 4 points total
over two rounds and putting down even a medium sized blocker- something
that US simply can't do. Furthermore it has the advantage of feeling
them out for S:CE or drawing it out. If they have a majesty in hand
then your US is wasted, but if they don't (or if they simply don't want
to use it to stop a hands for 1 from Koko) then you can press and hit
for more next round. Then they actually will draw the Majesty and you
did an extra hands for one to them.

Am I drinking my own bathwater here, absolutely. But hey, that's why I
post this stuff to the group.

Cheers,
Preston
 
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Preston wrote:
> Actually, I have a ton of blood dolls, I just don't
> use them. I would have no qualms about putting them into any of
> the BWP decks. The thing is, I personally don't really see a whole
> lot of value in the card.

Preston. Trust us. If you can spare them, put four Blood Dolls in every
Barbed Wire deck you give away. In the unlikely event that the decks
themselves are not improved by the inclusion, you will still have
bestowed a new player with a good number of what the overwhelming
majority of experienced V:tES players consider the most widely useful
card in the game. They might not suit your style of play, but I bet
your new players will find them handy.



> For instance, I would bring out Lydia Van Cuelen,
> given her superior Thaumatugy and
> have her start bleeding away.

Cryptic Mission is a great common for the Jyhad Tremere. You steal
blood at stealth. It's only good if you're down on blood, though,
which is where Blood Doll comes in.
 
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Hey Emmit,

Funny you should say that. Of all the BWP's so far, the Tremere is the
one that has solicitied the least amount of feedback. I took that to
mean that people regarded that deck as beging pretty good and not in
need of much improvement. But, hey, feel free to go to that thread and
post your version using 4 Blood Dolls and more cryptic missions.
 
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On 26 May 2005 10:23:52 -0700, "Preston" <prestonpoulter@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Funny you should say that. Of all the BWP's so far, the Tremere is the
>one that has solicitied the least amount of feedback. I took that to
>mean that people regarded that deck as beging pretty good and not in
>need of much improvement.

Not at all.

The few people who care are getting farther and farther from the
topics.

Lack of response should never be expected to equal agreement.

If most likely means lack of time and lack of interest.








Carpe noctem.

Lasombra

http://www.TheLasombra.com
Your best online source for information about V:TES.
Now also featuring individual card sales and sales
of booster and starter box displays.
 
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Preston wrote:
> I conducted a Demo last night at The Game Chest in the Valley View Mall
> in Dallas. I thought I would relate my experiences in case anyone else
> ends up doing it. The Game Chest has a game room at the back of the
> store, and that is probably where they wanted me, but I figured I
> wasn't going to get much action back there behind closed doors where no
> one could see me.

Just wanted to say a job well done! You must be commended on your
efforts!

Andrew Daley
PoS
 

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"The Lasombra" <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote
> Lack of response should never be expected to equal agreement.


No it doesn't mean agreement but the nature of the 'net and usenet means
people are -far- more likely post if they disagree with something than if
they agree. I suppose, after all if one agrees it just be a sea of me2's
 
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On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:15:31 +1200, carl <mist42nz@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> "The Lasombra" <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote
>> Lack of response should never be expected to equal agreement.
>
>
> No it doesn't mean agreement but the nature of the 'net and usenet means
> people are -far- more likely post if they disagree with something than if
> they agree.

I disagree.

> I suppose, after all if one agrees it just be a sea of me2's

Not really; a "mee too" isn't really different from a "no I don't". It's a
new perspective or new evaluation that really warrants a meaningful post.
Lack of such can be easily attributed to a lack of interest.

--
Bye,

Daneel
 

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"Daneel" <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote in message
news:eek:psriesnt8o6j3lh@news.chello.hu...
> On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:15:31 +1200, carl <mist42nz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > "The Lasombra" <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> Lack of response should never be expected to equal agreement.
> >
> >
> > No it doesn't mean agreement but the nature of the 'net and usenet means
> > people are -far- more likely post if they disagree with something than
if
> > they agree.
>
> I disagree.

I'll take that as proving my point.
The research is out there (ie already done and published on the net) for
those who can be arsed to look.
 
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 11:41:32 +1200, carl <mist42nz@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> "Daneel" <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote in message
> news:eek:psriesnt8o6j3lh@news.chello.hu...
>> On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:15:31 +1200, carl <mist42nz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > "The Lasombra" <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote
>> >> Lack of response should never be expected to equal agreement.
>> >
>> >
>> > No it doesn't mean agreement but the nature of the 'net and usenet
>> means
>> > people are -far- more likely post if they disagree with something than
> if
>> > they agree.
>>
>> I disagree.
>
> I'll take that

Feel free to.

--
Bye,

Daneel
 

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"Daneel" <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote in message
news:eek:psrnt5xdro6j3lh@news.chello.hu...
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 11:41:32 +1200, carl <mist42nz@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > "Daneel" <daniel@eposta.hu> wrote in message
> > news:eek:psriesnt8o6j3lh@news.chello.hu...
> >> On Sun, 29 May 2005 10:15:31 +1200, carl <mist42nz@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > "The Lasombra" <TheLasombra@hotmail.com> wrote
> >> >> Lack of response should never be expected to equal agreement.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > No it doesn't mean agreement but the nature of the 'net and usenet
> >> means
> >> > people are -far- more likely post if they disagree with something
than
> > if
> >> > they agree.
> >>
> >> I disagree.
> >
> > I'll take that
>
> Feel free to.


:)
 
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Well done Preston, this is the real nut and bolt type work that keeps
our game alive! For those about to teach V:teS, we salute you!!!

***JediMike***
 
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Thanks Mike,

I do these once a week. I have yet to have anyone become a regular, but
I keep hoping.

Cheers,
Preston