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[Tournament Report] Wacky Draft: Ithaca!

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Anonymous
May 14, 2005 2:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

So we ran a Camarilla Edition draft tournament last night, getting a
reasonable total of 7 players. The format was kind of made up on the fly,
based on everyone getting 6 CE boosters (we were trying to play with the
absolute minimum number of boosters to make playable decks). What we ended
up doing was:

-Everyone gets 6 boosters.
-We all sat in a circle of 7 (i.e. only 1 pod containing everyone).
-Everyone opened all six boosters without looking at them, and pulled out
the 2 vampires. The 6 boosters were kept as individual boosters, face down.
-The 12 vampires were combined into a 12 vampire super booster. We drafted
our crypts by passing the 12 vampire pile around the table in one direction,
taking one vampire at a time (i.e. I look at my 12 vamps, pick one, pass
right, look at the pile of 11 passed to me, picked one, pass right, etc.)
-After we had crypts, we then drafter the 6 boosters (i.e. piles of 9 cards
with no vampires) one at a time, alternating left and right passing between
boosters.

After the draft, we built decks, 12 card crypt (out of 12 vampires), 40 card
minimum deck (out of 54 total library cards).

With weird 7 players, we played 2 preliminary rounds, each with a 4 player
game and a 3 player game. 1st round was random seating. Second round ended
up being a 3 player game of the three people with VPs from the frist round
and a 4 player game with the 4 people without VPs from the first round. The
final was a 4 player game of the top 4 players, using standard tounament
seeding/seating.

The players, their total scores, and their kind of decks:

1. Steve Wampler (2GW/ 7VP) Dem/Obf Stealth and Bleedy kinda deck.
2. Jon Darbro (0GW/ 4VP) Nos/Malk Stealthy deck.
3. Andrew Sackett (1GW/ 3VP) Weenie cel/pot combaty deck.
4. Peter Bakija (1GW/ 3VP) Tremere Tha/Dom fighty bleedy deck.
5. Ben Stein (0GW/ 1VP) Obf stealth vote.VP from successfully withdrawing!
6. John Stevens (0/0) Tremere Tha/Aus fighty blocky deck.
7. Alex Koratzanis (0/0) Ani blocky deck.

Going into the finals, the scores were:

1. Steve (1/5)
2. Sackett (1/3--he threw Rock, I threw Scisors...)
3. Peter (1/3)
4. Jon (0/2)

Seating was Peter>Sackett>Jon>Steve>. Steve ousted Peter pretty quickly
after Brainwashing his first vampire, causing Peter to accidentally
influence out a 9 cap thinking she was an 8 cap. Sackett made a mess of
folks with a lot of combat, but then ran out of deck, and also gets ousted
by Steve. Jon, who has been slowly going forward but not over extending
himself then plows into Steve, who is mostly out of deck and kind of mangled
from Sackett, ousting Steve. Final ends Steve 2VP, Jon 2VP, Steve wins on
tie breaker. Go Steve!

Analyzing the draft format, this worked pretty well with a minimum of cards
(everyone paid $15.00 for 6 CE boosters I got a couple boxes of from the
local game store for a reasonably good price). With only 12 vampires per
player, we felt it was prudent to draft vampires first, and it worked out
pretty well--everyone had a crypt that they were mostly happy with. Yeah,
everyone got 1 completely random vampire they had to put in their crypt, but
certainly the first 6 or 7 vampires you got to pick were totally on task.

When we had crypts to work with, drafting the boosters was pretty straight
forward, and resulted in 7 fairly playable decks. Steve had a pretty good
S+B deck (some good Dementaton, a bunch of good Obfuscate), for instance.
All the games were pretty quick, without any of them going to time, and
everyone had a pretty good ability to move forward.

On my end, I went in thinking "Huh. No one ever takes Thaumaturgy in these
things. I'm gonna go all Tremere!" My first 7 vampire drafts were mid sized
Tremere or the equivalent (I got, like, Agguire, Wrath of God and Alfred
Benrazi early). My next few were either bigish vampires with tha or little
guys with some matching skill. My last two vampires were random Nosferatu
who had nomatching skills at all. Once the library started drafting, I did
ok, getting a bunch of good Thaumaturgy, some pretty solid Dom and Pre bleed
(I had 5 or 6 vampires with pre and a lot of dom), a couple bleed bounce
cards, some equipment, and some playable but not real spectacular masters. I
put together a reasonably good deck, and in the first game sat next to John
Stevens who, apparently had the exact same dumb idea I did (i.e. draft
Tremere and Thuamaturgy, 'cause no one else is gonna), but was sitting on
the oposite end of the draft table from me. First game I got a 1/3 GW (3
player table). Second game I got plowed under by Steve. Finals I got plowed
under by Steve.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
May 14, 2005 3:09:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> After the draft, we built decks, 12 card crypt (out of 12 vampires), 40
> card
> minimum deck (out of 54 total library cards).
>

Sounds like a pretty good format, if you're working with base set boosters
(or at least base-set-ish).

Would it have been better to let people pitch the worst 3-4 vamps and go
with an 8-9 card crypt? Maybe not, since you said people were fairly
effective going forward anyway.

Is a format like that sanctionable under the current rules?

- Pat
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 4:16:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Pat wrote:

> Sounds like a pretty good format, if you're working with base set boosters
> (or at least base-set-ish).

Yeah, I dunno how it would have worked with, like, a more diverse set of
boosters. I could see it working well with Sabbat War by itself, but not
much else.

> Would it have been better to let people pitch the worst 3-4 vamps and go
> with an 8-9 card crypt? Maybe not, since you said people were fairly
> effective going forward anyway.

Nah--it didn't really make much difference. Most of the unseable vampires
were big, and with limited to no pool gain (there were a couple Minion Taps
and Secret Hordes floating around the room. Maybe a couple Ancient
Influences too), you really only ever got out 3 vampires anyway, unless they
were smallish, and smallish vampires that don't have useable disciplines are
all still pretty useful. This being said, I think everyone had a pretty
reasonable crypt. Mine was like:

Almero Suarez (2 aus)
Yevette the Hopeless (3 cel aus)
Genghis (3 aus cel)
Chon Rose (5 THA, aus, pre, dom)
Aguirre (5 tha, aus, dom, ani)
Alfred (6 THA, PRE, aus, dom)
Virsitania (7 THA, AUS, dom)
Fleurdemal (8 AUS, CEL, PRE. tha)
Lily Hakke (9 AUS, THA, DOM)
Someone else who was moderately useful I can't remember
Jara Drory (7, mostly useless)
Casino Reeds (9, completely useless)

I had a lot of Tha, some Dom and Pre bleed stuff, a few Aus cards, and then
a couple fringe cards that mostly got discarded, but were theoretically
playable due to me having an Infernal Familiar (I think I threw in a Raven
Spy, a Nimble Feet, and a Skin of Steel just to round out to 50 cards. I
think I pressed with the Nimble Feet in one game).

All the decks were reasonably playable.

> Is a format like that sanctionable under the current rules?

Dunno--I'm a little vague on what draft formats are currently sanctioned.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Related resources
May 15, 2005 2:28:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:BEAB9C87.1F748%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> Pat wrote:
<SNIP>
>
> reasonable crypt. Mine was like:
>
> Almero Suarez (2 aus)
> Yevette the Hopeless (3 cel aus)
> Genghis (3 aus cel)
> Chon Rose (5 THA, aus, pre, dom)
> Aguirre (5 tha, aus, dom, ani)
> Alfred (6 THA, PRE, aus, dom)
> Virsitania (7 THA, AUS, dom)
> Fleurdemal (8 AUS, CEL, PRE. tha)
> Lily Hakke (9 AUS, THA, DOM)
> Someone else who was moderately useful I can't remember
> Jara Drory (7, mostly useless)
> Casino Reeds (9, completely useless)
>

I never seem to be able to get that good of a crypt draw (i.e., decent
weenies) in draft. Maybe you should give your "pick the THA vamps" strategy
more credit.

>> Is a format like that sanctionable under the current rules?
>
> Dunno--I'm a little vague on what draft formats are currently sanctioned.
>

I did a non-sanctioned draft last year with the Balto-DC crowd where we
broke the 76-card Jyhad starters into 4 "pseudo-boosters" of 19 cards. I
think Josh said that it would have been sanctionable if we had wanted to
bother. (We had 6 people, so we just did a couple tables of 6 and didn't
worry about sanctioning.) Not that different from what you guys did.

- Pat
Anonymous
May 15, 2005 2:56:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Pat wrote:

> I never seem to be able to get that good of a crypt draw (i.e., decent
> weenies) in draft. Maybe you should give your "pick the THA vamps" strategy
> more credit.

I think pretty much everyone had viable crypts like this. Sackett had a
whole crypt of 2-5 cap vampires (most in the 3-4 point range), a lot with
good disciplines forhis plan (pot/cel). Steve, who won, built an alomst
completely valid Obf/Dem crypt. It worked out pretty well, with the 12
vampire super booster plan. When we opened the boosters, I was surprised by
them only having 2 vampires each, and so we had to come up with a way that
resulted in people actually having a choice over the vampires they got, and
this worked well.

> I did a non-sanctioned draft last year with the Balto-DC crowd where we
> broke the 76-card Jyhad starters into 4 "pseudo-boosters" of 19 cards. I
> think Josh said that it would have been sanctionable if we had wanted to
> bother. (We had 6 people, so we just did a couple tables of 6 and didn't
> worry about sanctioning.) Not that different from what you guys did.

Seems pretty reasonable.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
May 15, 2005 10:30:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> I think pretty much everyone had viable crypts like this. Sackett had
a
> whole crypt of 2-5 cap vampires (most in the 3-4 point range), a lot
with
> good disciplines forhis plan (pot/cel). Steve, who won, built an
alomst
> completely valid Obf/Dem crypt.

I was really happy with my crypt. It was (going from memory):
Rachel Brandywine
Maris Streck
Quentin King III
Dr. Douglas Netchurch
Evan Klein
Gerard Rafin
Amelia, the Blood Red Tears
Wolfgang
Krid
Illyiana Rabidovitch (or whoever)
Madame Guil

So 10 vamps that were totally playable, and two vamps that I could
safely ignore. Overall, I thought it was a slim, efficient draft
mechanism.

-Jon
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 2:01:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

mummy wrote:

> I was really happy with my crypt. It was (going from memory):
> Rachel Brandywine
> Maris Streck
> Quentin King III
> Dr. Douglas Netchurch
> Evan Klein
> Gerard Rafin
> Amelia, the Blood Red Tears
> Wolfgang
> Krid
> Illyiana Rabidovitch (or whoever)
> Madame Guil

That Wolfgang was dynamite! Especially with the Grenade...

> So 10 vamps that were totally playable, and two vamps that I could
> safely ignore. Overall, I thought it was a slim, efficient draft
> mechanism.

Yeah, I think everyone had pretty much the same thing going on.

I think the 12 vampire "super boosters" we drafted crypts from worked really
well--everyone had a lot of choice with every pick till, like, the last 3 or
4 picks, and even then, only the last random vampire you get passed is gonna
be really bad (my last vampire was Casino Reeds who had zero disciplines I
could use), which isn't that big of a deal.

I also like the plan of building your crypt first, as opposed to either
drafting a crypt second or drafting vampires from boosters like any other
card--by building a viable crypt first (and with the 12 vampire stacks to
draft from, again, everyone got a viable crypt), the library draft works
nicely--there is a lot less random card grabbing and hoping it works out ok.
Sure, there is always going to be a bit of rare drafting or whatever (I took
a Derange even though I didn't have a single Malkavian; Jon took a Freak
Drive with very little fortitude available), but overall, the card spread is
going to be self limiting--me and John were both looking for Thaumaturghy,
and we both got about 12 or so Tha cards, for instance; Ausepex was tough,
as 3 or 4 people were picking it, but that woked out ok too.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
May 16, 2005 2:43:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:
> So we ran a Camarilla Edition draft tournament last night, getting a
> reasonable total of 7 players. The format was kind of made up on the
fly,
> based on everyone getting 6 CE boosters (we were trying to play with
the
> absolute minimum number of boosters to make playable decks). What we
ended
> up doing was:
>
> -Everyone gets 6 boosters.
> -We all sat in a circle of 7 (i.e. only 1 pod containing everyone).
> -Everyone opened all six boosters without looking at them, and pulled
out
> the 2 vampires. The 6 boosters were kept as individual boosters, face
down.
> -The 12 vampires were combined into a 12 vampire super booster. We
drafted
> our crypts by passing the 12 vampire pile around the table in one
direction,
> taking one vampire at a time (i.e. I look at my 12 vamps, pick one,
pass
> right, look at the pile of 11 passed to me, picked one, pass right,
etc.)
> -After we had crypts, we then drafter the 6 boosters (i.e. piles of 9
cards
> with no vampires) one at a time, alternating left and right passing
between
> boosters.
>
> After the draft, we built decks, 12 card crypt (out of 12 vampires),
40 card
> minimum deck (out of 54 total library cards).

Sounds like fun. I also would echo the suggestion about lowering the
Crypt minimum size to 8. But more importantly, I think you should have
done two drafts of six vampires, left and right. It probably wouldn't
have changed the outcome a whole lot, but it'd be slightly more "fair."

Jeff
May 16, 2005 5:30:46 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> But more importantly, I think you should have
> done two drafts of six vampires, left and right. It probably wouldn't
> have changed the outcome a whole lot, but it'd be slightly more
"fair."

Actually, we talked about doing that, and we all agreed that it would
be a superior plan.

Unfortunately, we were already >50% of the way through the crypt card
drafting when this idea surfaced :) 

Next time, for sure!
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 4:51:38 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

The
> final was a 4 player game of the top 4 players, using standard
tounament
> seeding/seating.


Sounds like it was fun even with 7, but why not make the final a 5
player table? I think I just enjoy that number of players the best.
Anonymous
May 17, 2005 11:17:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Robert wrote:
>Sounds like it was fun even with 7, but why not make the final a 5
>player table? I think I just enjoy that number of players the best.

'Cause all the previous rounds were only 3 or 4 people, and we figured
that a 4 player final would be shorter. And Ben, who was the only other
person with a VP (1 from withdrawing!), seemed like he wanted to go
home anyway.

4 worked out well, as the game was timely (over in an hour) and matched
the rest of the event. With more players, we'd probably have gone 5.

-Peter
!