Priscus Title

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I have searched for the rulebook and the all rules off the website does
not directly say that the Pricus title makes a vampire a titled
vampire.

I always thought that the Pricus was a title... worth zero votes...

Am I correct?

Andrew

 

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daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
> I have searched for the rulebook and the all rules off the website
does
> not directly say that the Pricus title makes a vampire a titled
> vampire.

It's in Section "10.2. Sabbat" of the rulebook.

Also see the card text of "Investiture".

> I always thought that the Pricus was a title... worth zero votes...

It is a title worth 1 vote in the prisci subreferendum.

Regards,

Hardy Range
Prince of Bochum, Germany
http://www.vekn.de

 

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HardyRange wrote:
> daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
> > I have searched for the rulebook and the all rules off the website
> does
> > not directly say that the Pricus title makes a vampire a titled
> > vampire.
>
> It's in Section "10.2. Sabbat" of the rulebook.

Actually, that section doesn't *explicitly* state that Priscus is a
title, it just states that only Sabbat vampires can be(come) Prisci.
Of course it is implied, since the Section talks about the sects and
their titles, but nowhere does it say: "Priscus is a Sabbat Title".

> Also see the card text of "Investiture".
>


That's the one he's been looking for, i think...

 

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Thats strange!

That is the ONLY place I could find that refered the Pricus as a title.


Maybe they need to clarify in thr rule book.

Andrew

 

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LSJ wrote:
> daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
> > That is the ONLY place I could find that refered the Pricus as a
title.
> >
> > Maybe they need to clarify in thr rule book.
>
> Yeah -- 'cause it seems to have been a source of confusion for all
this time.
> Or not.
>
> Perhaps it is clear in section 10 that it is a title.
>
> "... bishops, archbishops, prisci, cardinals... archbishop is a city
based
> title ... the other titles are not unique and cannot be contested."

>From Rulebook, 10.2
The other major sect is the Sabbat, which is composed of 15 clans:
Lasombra, Tzimisce, Pander and the seven antitribu clans (corrupted
versions of the Camarilla clans) as well as five of the clans found in
Bloodlines: Ahrimanes, Blood Brothers, Harbingers of Skulls, Kiasyd and
Salubri antitribu. These vampires are marked "Sabbat" on their cards.

Only Sabbat vampires can become bishops, archbishops, prisci or
cardinals. Like Camarilla princes, the title of archbishop is
associated with a particular city and can be contested by another
vampire who claims the title of prince or archbishop of the same city.
*The other Sabbat titles are not unique and cannot be contested. *

Well, as i said: it's implied, but not stated explicitly...apparently,
it's not clear enough.

It doesn't say: Only Sabbat vampires can hold the titles of bishops,
archbishops, prisci or cardinals...

>
> --
> LSJ (vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap
to reply)
> Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament
calendar:
> http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

 

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> Only Sabbat vampires can become bishops, archbishops, prisci or
> cardinals. Like Camarilla princes, the title of archbishop is
> associated with a particular city and can be contested by another
> vampire who claims the title of prince or archbishop of the same
city.
> *The other Sabbat titles are not unique and cannot be contested. *
>
> Well, as i said: it's implied, but not stated
explicitly...apparently,
> it's not clear enough.
>
> It doesn't say: Only Sabbat vampires can hold the titles of bishops,
> archbishops, prisci or cardinals...


These shapes require four lines to draw: a square, trapezoid, rectangle
and a parallelogram. The trapezoid is unique in that it does not have
four right angles. The other quadrilaterals all have four right angles.

I wonder if a rectangle is a quadrilateral?

 

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LSJ wrote:
>> Well, as i said: it's implied, but not stated
explicitly...apparently,
>> it's not clear enough.

>for whom?

>Everyone on this thread apparently understands that Priscus is a
title.

The initial poster apparently was confused.

Robert Scythe wrote:
>These shapes require four lines to draw: a square, trapezoid,
rectangle
>and a parallelogram. The trapezoid is unique in that it does not have
>four right angles. The other quadrilaterals all have four right
angles.

>I wonder if a rectangle is a quadrilateral?

I wonder if a rectangle is a parallelogram? It sure is, but it's not
clear from (explicitly stated in) your definition.

;-D

Hey, it's clear that a priscus is a sabbat title, it's just funny that
the only *explicit* (sorry to beat a dying horse) reference is on a
card, that's all.

 

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Dont get me wrong LSJ... I love ya work.. but this is an issue. I
wished to discuss it as some one posted a concern as a player made
Gratiano a Cardinal and kept the Pricus title... the reason being that
it DOES NOT state that Pricus is a title... only place as I have learnt
is the card Investiture.

This is what the original concern was from a player in Sweden:
Thanx, Andrew.
Got my answers as usual. The reason this came up at all was because
someone made Gratiano a Cardinal and claimed that he actually kept his
Priscus status. But I guess he's the exception. I don't think being
Priscus is actually considered a title with votes in the usual sense.
Either that or his extra vote in the Pris-ref makes the difference.

So to contrict you, it will change the way someone plays.

Andrew

 

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daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
> That is the ONLY place I could find that refered the Pricus as a title.
>
> Maybe they need to clarify in thr rule book.

Yeah -- 'cause it seems to have been a source of confusion for all this time.
Or not.

Perhaps it is clear in section 10 that it is a title.

"... bishops, archbishops, prisci, cardinals... archbishop is a city based
title ... the other titles are not unique and cannot be contested."

--
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Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
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Arden McBathan wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
>>daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
>>>Maybe they need to clarify in thr rule book.
>>
>>Yeah -- 'cause it seems to have been a source of confusion for all this time.
>>Or not.
>>
>>Perhaps it is clear in section 10 that it is a title.
>>
>>"... bishops, archbishops, prisci, cardinals... archbishop is a city based
>>title ... the other titles are not unique and cannot be contested."
>
>>From Rulebook, 10.2

[snip longer version of above]

> Well, as i said: it's implied, but not stated explicitly...apparently,
> it's not clear enough.

for whom?

Everyone on this thread apparently understands that Priscus is a title.

The verbiage will be changed to sell it to the cheap seats in the next
edition of the rulebook, but I don't think it will change how anyone
actually plays.

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"LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:wTaje.4716$uR4.2997@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Everyone on this thread apparently understands that Priscus is a title.
>
> The verbiage will be changed to sell it to the cheap seats in the next
> edition of the rulebook, but I don't think it will change how anyone
> actually plays.

It probably wouldn't hurt to have an explicit list of what is a title,
if there's no explicit, objective rule from which one can make the
determination spelled out anywhere.

I remember when I first started trying to play the game. I read the
rules over and over and looked at card text and recall having a
terrible problem figuring out which action modifiers could be played
before combat and which ones were after combat (or either option, in
many cases). (I wasn't even aware enough to realize there WAS such a
distintion about things getting played before and after an opponent
yields the opportunity to block.)

Now, of course, all these issues are crystal clear to me. In fact,
I think I recall checking at some point and determining that the answer
to that question could ultimately be resolved somewhere in either the
rules (even the ones printed at the time) and/or card text for all
cards. But it didn't prevent me from getting frustrated and shelving
my cards for a couple years.

Sometimes being pedantic about stating rules and listing things may not
be strictly necessary but can be a good thing, none the less.

Fred

 

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Indeed... seems like we are going around in circles.

Thanks for the clarification!

Andrew

 

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LSJ wrote:
> daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
> > So to contrict you, it will change the way someone plays.
>
> And some people play that stolen blood in excess of blood supply
> sends one to torpor.
>
> The point is that the rules already indicate that Priscus is a title.

But unfortunately, elegant and concise (or confusing and incomplete
depending on your POV) rules aren't easily understood by everyone. Some
people need to be beaten over the head with lots of very explicit
statements or they'll be unsure.

Jeff

 

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Arden McBathan wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
>>Everyone on this thread apparently understands that Priscus is a
>
> title.
>
> The initial poster apparently was confused.

He understands that it is a title. At least, according to the
content of his initial post -- unless you don't count the way
he said it as explicit enough.

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Frederick Scott wrote:
> "LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
>>Everyone on this thread apparently understands that Priscus is a title.
>>
>>The verbiage will be changed to sell it to the cheap seats in the next
>>edition of the rulebook, but I don't think it will change how anyone
>>actually plays.
>
> It probably wouldn't hurt to have an explicit list of what is a title,
> if there's no explicit, objective rule from which one can make the
> determination spelled out anywhere.

?
Right. See above.

--
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"LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:qKije.7601$w21.1656@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Frederick Scott wrote:
>> "LSJ" <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message
>>>Everyone on this thread apparently understands that Priscus is a title.
>>>
>>>The verbiage will be changed to sell it to the cheap seats in the next
>>>edition of the rulebook, but I don't think it will change how anyone
>>>actually plays.
>>
>> It probably wouldn't hurt to have an explicit list of what is a title,
>> if there's no explicit, objective rule from which one can make the
>> determination spelled out anywhere.
>
> ?
> Right. See above.

The way you phrased the above, you sounded as if you doubted the change
would accomplish much. I was just expressing my opinion that such things
do make a difference at times, reducing frustration amongst those of us
who comprise the thicker headed set.

Fred

 

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daleaw@iinet.net.au wrote:
> So to contrict you, it will change the way someone plays.

And some people play that stolen blood in excess of blood supply
sends one to torpor.

The point is that the rules already indicate that Priscus is a title.

--
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Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
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Arden McBathan wrote:

> >These shapes require four lines to draw: a square, trapezoid,
> rectangle
> >and a parallelogram. The trapezoid is unique in that it does not
have
> >four right angles. The other quadrilaterals all have four right
> angles.
>
> >I wonder if a rectangle is a quadrilateral?
>
> I wonder if a rectangle is a parallelogram? It sure is, but it's not
> clear from (explicitly stated in) your definition.


Didn't have to be, that wasn't the question.

 

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Robert Scythe wrote:
> > Only Sabbat vampires can become bishops, archbishops, prisci or
> > cardinals. Like Camarilla princes, the title of archbishop is
> > associated with a particular city and can be contested by another
> > vampire who claims the title of prince or archbishop of the same
> city.
> > *The other Sabbat titles are not unique and cannot be contested. *
> >
> > Well, as i said: it's implied, but not stated
> explicitly...apparently,
> > it's not clear enough.
> >
> > It doesn't say: Only Sabbat vampires can hold the titles of
bishops,
> > archbishops, prisci or cardinals...
>
>
> These shapes require four lines to draw: a square, trapezoid,
rectangle
> and a parallelogram. The trapezoid is unique in that it does not have
> four right angles. The other quadrilaterals all have four right
angles.
>
> I wonder if a rectangle is a quadrilateral?

I suspect you're just using this geometry example to illustrate
potential confusion when someone read VTES rules, but I have to clarify
it.

Quadrilateral: Planar object with 4 sides connecting 4 points.
Trapezoid: Quadrilateral with exactly 1 pair of parallel sides.
Parallelogram: Quadrilateral with two pairs of parallel sides.
Rectangle: Parallelogram with sides adjoining at right angles.
Square: Rectangle with equal length sides.

I feel better now.

Jeff

 

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jeffkuta@pacbell.net wrote:
> Robert Scythe wrote:
> > > Only Sabbat vampires can become bishops, archbishops, prisci or
> > > cardinals. Like Camarilla princes, the title of archbishop is
> > > associated with a particular city and can be contested by another
> > > vampire who claims the title of prince or archbishop of the same
> > city.
> > > *The other Sabbat titles are not unique and cannot be contested.
*
> > >
> > > Well, as i said: it's implied, but not stated
> > explicitly...apparently,
> > > it's not clear enough.
> > >
> > > It doesn't say: Only Sabbat vampires can hold the titles of
> bishops,
> > > archbishops, prisci or cardinals...
> >
> >
> > These shapes require four lines to draw: a square, trapezoid,
> rectangle
> > and a parallelogram. The trapezoid is unique in that it does not
have
> > four right angles. The other quadrilaterals all have four right
> angles.
> >
> > I wonder if a rectangle is a quadrilateral?
>
> I suspect you're just using this geometry example to illustrate
> potential confusion when someone read VTES rules, but I have to
clarify
> it.
>
> Quadrilateral: Planar object with 4 sides connecting 4 points.
> Trapezoid: Quadrilateral with exactly 1 pair of parallel sides.
> Parallelogram: Quadrilateral with two pairs of parallel sides.
> Rectangle: Parallelogram with sides adjoining at right angles.
> Square: Rectangle with equal length sides.

And: Rhombus: Quadrilateral with 4 sides of identical length.
(Alternately: A parallelogram with all sides the same length. Even more
alternately: "A diamond.")

> I feel better now.

Then let's not ruin your good mood by mentioning that tetrahedrons
_also_ fit Robert's definition of requiring four lines to draw, yet
aren't any of the shapes listed above (being non-planar)...

But that was saved for the 3-D expansion set.

> Jeff

-John Flournoy

 

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carl wrote:
> "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote
> > > Quadrilateral: Planar object with 4 sides connecting 4 points.
> > > Trapezoid: Quadrilateral with exactly 1 pair of parallel sides.
> > > Parallelogram: Quadrilateral with two pairs of parallel sides.
> > > Rectangle: Parallelogram with sides adjoining at right angles.
> > > Square: Rectangle with equal length sides.
> >
> > And: Rhombus: Quadrilateral with 4 sides of identical length.
> > (Alternately: A parallelogram with all sides the same length. Even
more
> > alternately: "A diamond.")
>
> So are quadrilaterals squares then?
>
> It does matter how you write it. some perople will still ask.

Yes, because some people are Dumb. I often encounter this class of
people in my work, sadly.

-John Flournoy

 

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On 19 May 2005 21:16:29 -0700, daleaw@iinet.net.au scrawled:

>Dont get me wrong LSJ... I love ya work.. but this is an issue. I
>wished to discuss it as some one posted a concern as a player made
>Gratiano a Cardinal and kept the Pricus title... the reason being that
>it DOES NOT state that Pricus is a title... only place as I have learnt
>is the card Investiture.
>
>This is what the original concern was from a player in Sweden:
>Thanx, Andrew.
>Got my answers as usual. The reason this came up at all was because
>someone made Gratiano a Cardinal and claimed that he actually kept his
>Priscus status. But I guess he's the exception. I don't think being
>Priscus is actually considered a title with votes in the usual sense.
>Either that or his extra vote in the Pris-ref makes the difference.
>
>So to contrict you, it will change the way someone plays.


if you make Grats a cardinal, he loses his priscus title. he does,
however, also keep his additional vote in the priscus sub-ref. thus,
if no other priscus are on the table, he commands 6 votes.


does the little index card that comes in starters have titles on it?

there are about 1000 of them in my house, but they're all downstairs
and i am lazy.

salem
http://www.users.tpg.com.au/adsltqna/VtES/index.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

 

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> Then let's not ruin your good mood by mentioning that tetrahedrons
> _also_ fit Robert's definition of requiring four lines to draw, yet
> aren't any of the shapes listed above (being non-planar)...
>
> But that was saved for the 3-D expansion set.

Dude!!! Math! Rock hardcore.

I's luv numburs.

Ankur

 

[Carl]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

"John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote
> > Quadrilateral: Planar object with 4 sides connecting 4 points.
> > Trapezoid: Quadrilateral with exactly 1 pair of parallel sides.
> > Parallelogram: Quadrilateral with two pairs of parallel sides.
> > Rectangle: Parallelogram with sides adjoining at right angles.
> > Square: Rectangle with equal length sides.
>
> And: Rhombus: Quadrilateral with 4 sides of identical length.
> (Alternately: A parallelogram with all sides the same length. Even more
> alternately: "A diamond.")

So are quadrilaterals squares then?

It does matter how you write it. some perople will still ask.

 

[Carl]

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"John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116626070.764610.9410@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> carl wrote:
> > "John Flournoy" <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote
> > > > Quadrilateral: Planar object with 4 sides connecting 4 points.
> > > > Trapezoid: Quadrilateral with exactly 1 pair of parallel sides.
> > > > Parallelogram: Quadrilateral with two pairs of parallel sides.
> > > > Rectangle: Parallelogram with sides adjoining at right angles.
> > > > Square: Rectangle with equal length sides.
> > >
> > > And: Rhombus: Quadrilateral with 4 sides of identical length.
> > > (Alternately: A parallelogram with all sides the same length. Even
> more
> > > alternately: "A diamond.")
> >
> > So are quadrilaterals squares then?
> >
> > It does matter how you write it. some perople will still ask.
>
> Yes, because some people are Dumb. I often encounter this class of
> people in my work, sadly.

Actually no. But people are still dumb.