about Siphon

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Siphon

+1 stealth action. Requires a ready vampire. Choose one or more younger
vampires in torpor. If there are any Gehenna cards in play, the vampires
need not be younger. Steal 1 blood from each chosen vampire. If this
acting vampire is Giovanni, you may also move one card from your ash heap to
your hand for each blood stolen. Discard down to your hand size afterward.
Only one Siphon can be played each turn.


Is this a D action again targeted vampire ?

Magus
 
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Laurent B a écrit :
> Siphon
>
> +1 stealth action. Requires a ready vampire. Choose one or more younger
> vampires in torpor. If there are any Gehenna cards in play, the vampires
> need not be younger. Steal 1 blood from each chosen vampire. If this
> acting vampire is Giovanni, you may also move one card from your ash heap to
> your hand for each blood stolen. Discard down to your hand size afterward.
> Only one Siphon can be played each turn.
>
>
> Is this a D action again targeted vampire ?
>
> Magus


if you choose targets from only one other methuselah, then it becomes a
directed action, and only the targeted methuselah can attempt to block.

if you choose targets from more than one methuselah, including you, then
it is an undirected action. Prey and predator can block as usual.

if you choose to target your own vampires, then it is also an undirected
action.
 
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On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:28:03 +0200, reyda <true_reyda@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Laurent B a écrit :
>> Siphon
>>
>> +1 stealth action. Requires a ready vampire. Choose one or more younger
>> vampires in torpor. If there are any Gehenna cards in play, the vampires
>> need not be younger. Steal 1 blood from each chosen vampire. If this
>> acting vampire is Giovanni, you may also move one card from your ash heap to
>> your hand for each blood stolen. Discard down to your hand size afterward.
>> Only one Siphon can be played each turn.
>>
>> Is this a D action again targeted vampire ?
>>
>> Magus
>
>if you choose targets from only one other methuselah, then it becomes a
>directed action, and only the targeted methuselah can attempt to block.
>
>if you choose targets from more than one methuselah, including you, then
> it is an undirected action. Prey and predator can block as usual.
>
>if you choose to target your own vampires, then it is also an undirected
>action.

But if it targets vampires from two cross-table players, per
example... It means that both would NOT be able to block it, only my
predator and prey?

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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Fabio "Sooner" wrote:

> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:24:13 GMT, LSJ <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
>>If the action targets exactly one other Methuselahs minions,
>>it is directed.
>>
>>If it doesn't (that is, it targets only your minions, or it
>>targets more than one Metshuelah's minions), it is undirected
>>(even if one or more of the "targeted" Methuselahs is
>>neither the predator nor prey).
>
>
> Ok, let's see if I understood that. So if I target at least one minion
> controlled by each player on the table, the "targeted" Methuselahs who
> are neither my predador nor my prey would not be elligible to block
> it, even if it affects a minion of them. I have to deal only with
> block attempts from my predator and prey. Right?

Yes (not counting Anneke, Eagle's Sight, etc.)

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Is it Siphon+Baltimore Purge? If so, I've thought a bit about it, and
there's been some brief discussion of it here. Sadly, I don't own any
BPs so I can't do the deck myself.

Cthulukitty
 
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On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:24:01 GMT, LSJ <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
wrote:

>Fabio "Sooner" wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:24:13 GMT, LSJ <vtesrepSPAM@TRAPwhite-wolf.com>
>>>If the action targets exactly one other Methuselahs minions,
>>>it is directed.
>>>
>>>If it doesn't (that is, it targets only your minions, or it
>>>targets more than one Metshuelah's minions), it is undirected
>>>(even if one or more of the "targeted" Methuselahs is
>>>neither the predator nor prey).
>>
>>
>> Ok, let's see if I understood that. So if I target at least one minion
>> controlled by each player on the table, the "targeted" Methuselahs who
>> are neither my predador nor my prey would not be elligible to block
>> it, even if it affects a minion of them. I have to deal only with
>> block attempts from my predator and prey. Right?
>
>Yes (not counting Anneke, Eagle's Sight, etc.)

*evil combo* *evil combo* *evil combo* *evil combo* :-D
(I thought a given combo I have in mind would never work because I'd
had to deal with multiple methuselahs trying to block)

many thanks! I'll test it and if it works I'll post it in here.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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On 8 Jun 2005 09:42:36 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtanarchist@riseup.net>
wrote:

>Is it Siphon+Baltimore Purge? If so, I've thought a bit about it, and
>there's been some brief discussion of it here. Sadly, I don't own any
>BPs so I can't do the deck myself.
>Cthulukitty

Yeah, with Anarch Revolt's new wording. Just influence out enough
minions to have extra actions and rescue selective Methuselah's
minions from torpor and leave the pool damage to the ones you want to
take it. As a side effect, use Giovanni to get cards back (the only
thing I consider Siphon worth playing, even with Baltimore). You can
get multiple Baltimore and the burned Anarch Revolts (which will show
up in the ash heap as soon as people realize the trick) back to hand
with a single Siphon.

I own only 5 BP's, but I think it's enough for a 50 or 60 card deck
focussing on the idea.

And since you only need to torporize other Methuselah's anarchs,
there's a chance that Pochtli will do in my metagame - not many
vampires over 7 without titles show up in here. Or maybe I'll go crazy
with Augustus.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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If you play the table right, you don't even need to worry about the ARs
hitting the "wrong" targets. Try stacking Fame and some dom bleed into
your offensive package and you'll almost certainly be ousting faster
than most other meths, who are all dealing with torpored minions, whose
blood is being siphoned away, and potentially wasting actions on going
anarch or voting away the ARs. Remember that you need a Gehenna event
in play to really make Siphon work. Just from offhand memory, you
could use Anthelios to speed up your AR recursion or use either the
diablerie enabler (forget what it's called) or Wormwood to make the BPs
sweeter (but not both, obviously). There's probably some others you
could use that would be essentially neutral or beneficial
(Dragonbound??) just to make sure you get one out, or to increase the
effectiveness of the stacky ones.

Have fun. It's a cool idea.
Cthulukitty
 
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Dragonbound, with fame would definately work for this. Hmmm, that is a
sick idea. please let us know hoqw it worked.
 
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On 8 Jun 2005 16:26:07 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtanarchist@riseup.net>
wrote:

>If you play the table right, you don't even need to worry about the ARs
>hitting the "wrong" targets. Try stacking Fame and some dom bleed into
>your offensive package and you'll almost certainly be ousting faster
>than most other meths, who are all dealing with torpored minions, whose
>blood is being siphoned away, and potentially wasting actions on going
>anarch or voting away the ARs. Remember that you need a Gehenna event
>in play to really make Siphon work.

In fact, that's why I was considering using Augustus or Silvia. You
only need a Gehenna event to be able to choose younger targets for
Siphon. The rest of the card works normally. And I'll usually target
the recently-turned anarchs from other methuselah's, which in turn
will be the non-titled ones, therefore most of the time younger than 8
or 9-cap.
Even if this reasoning fails, one or two less targets won't make that
much difference in the grand scheme as long as I'm able to gain 2 or
three blood and the same number of cards back to hand with Siphon.


Just from offhand memory, you
>could use Anthelios to speed up your AR recursion or use either the
>diablerie enabler (forget what it's called) or Wormwood to make the BPs
>sweeter (but not both, obviously). There's probably some others you
>could use that would be essentially neutral or beneficial
>(Dragonbound??) just to make sure you get one out, or to increase the
>effectiveness of the stacky ones.

I'd prefer Anthelios, sure. Maybe Rise of the Nephtali (and a
innocuous one like Blood Trade to setup it) since I'm going Gio. 4
votes is nice specially if I'm able to torporize titled vampires if
needed.


>Have fun. It's a cool idea.
>Cthulukitty

I'll try it and post the resulting deck here soon.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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>>You
only need a Gehenna event to be able to choose younger targets for
Siphon. The rest of the card works normally.

Ummm. Try rereading that. Normally, the vampire must be younger.
Gehenna events let you target anyone. I would lean towards using a
Giovanni with fortitude as the key player, since you'll want to be able
Freak Drive and defend yourself in combat. Ignazio and Silvia are both
good choices, as is Regina for the votes. Ultimately, the environment
you're playing in should determine which of those to use, since they
all fit your scheme pretty darn well.

Cthulukitty
 
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On 9 Jun 2005 12:05:12 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtanarchist@riseup.net>
wrote:

>>>You
>only need a Gehenna event to be able to choose younger targets for
>Siphon. The rest of the card works normally.
>
>Ummm. Try rereading that. Normally, the vampire must be younger.
>Gehenna events let you target anyone.

Oh, sorry, I wrote it wrong. Read "you only need an Event to be able
to choose any target, not just younger ones".
I mean, I was thinking about just choosing a big enough Giovanni to
guarantee I'll be able to choose most vampires torporized by the
Purge. Since people usually play with big caps with titles and midcap
and weenie support (specific decks aside), they'll usually turn their
smaller vamps anarch to avoid the Revolts pool damage.
Other option is to play the Purges with big Lasombras, so I can
circumvent the gehenna event clausule by choosing which vampires to
torporize. I just need to make sure they'll be younger than the
Giovanni who's going to do the Siphoning - preferrably Pochtli or
Carlotta, thanks to their specials if everything goes wrong.

I would lean towards using a
>Giovanni with fortitude as the key player, since you'll want to be able
>Freak Drive and defend yourself in combat. Ignazio and Silvia are both
>good choices, as is Regina for the votes. Ultimately, the environment
>you're playing in should determine which of those to use, since they
>all fit your scheme pretty darn well.
>Cthulukitty

I was thinking about something like the deck below. Sometimes I need
bleed defense, and Deflection is the obvious choice. Combine the blood
cost for the rescue actions I'll have to take myself, the bounce and
the Freak Drive, and that's too many blood flowing away. Siphon can
remedy that, but I don't want to rely on Siphon - torporizing anarch
minions to trigger the Revolts is what I want. Siphon is just a nice
addition to get blood and cards back, but not crucial.

Deck Name : Anarchs Siphon after Baltimore Revolt
Author : Fabio Sooner
Description : Influence out a big [DOM] Lasombra first. Hold the Purge
as long as you need it to; take your time Governing down, going
anarch, playing Revolts and hunting as needed. In the meantime, you
should be able to defend yourself well with bounce and Obedience. When
ready, start the Baltimore madness. Choose the minions you'll
torporize with caution; punish vote decks as much as possible, along
with your prey, of course. Offer yourself to rescue cross-table allies
if they're not too threatening in the long run or would suffer too
much from the Revolts. Play Siphon to get blood back and the Baltimore
Purge, along with any cards needed for passing the action/defending
your key Lasombra.

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 10 average: 7.09
------------------------------------------------------------

2x Angelica, The Cano 10 DOM OBT POT cel obf cardinal
Lasombra:2
2x Marcus Vitel Adv 10 DOM FOR OBF OBT POT PRE
Lasombra:3
2x Pochtli 8 NEC OBF POT cel dom
Giovanni:2
1x Carlotta Giovanni 7 NEC POT dom obf
Giovanni:2
1x Rafaele Giovanni 6 NEC cel obf
Giovanni:2
1x Isabel Giovanni 5 DOM NEC pot
Giovanni:2
1x Chas Giovanni Tell 4 DOM POT
Giovanni:2
1x Gloria Giovanni 4 DOM nec
Giovanni:2
1x Lia Milliner 3 dom nec
Giovanni:3

Library [72 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------

Action [16]
1x Anarch Secession
4x Baltimore Purge
5x Govern the Unaligned
2x Graverobbing
4x Siphon

Action Modifier [20]
4x Call of the Hungry Dead
2x Elder Impersonation
6x Forgotten Labyrinth
4x Smoke and Mirrors
4x Seduction

Event [2]
1x Anthelios, The Red Star
1x Blood Trade

Master [16]
1x Acquired Ventrue Assets
1x Anarch Railroad
7x Anarch Revolt
3x Blood Doll
4x Galaric's Legacy

Reaction [18]
6x Deflection
6x Obedience
6x Wake with Evening's Freshness

Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Thu Jun 09 16:17:47 2005]


I'd love to include a Barrens, a Dreams and other similar
flow-enhancer cards, but I'm not sure what to ditch out. I suspect
this deck would function better with even less cards... Do you think
72 is good enough? I also included two events for general usefulness
and for emergencies regarding Siphon's clause.

Other nasty idea was to combine Ankla Hotep or Spider Killer and the
[obf] Giovanni. It would grant me one discipline in common (obf),
Purges at +1 stealth (or +2 if Spider-Killer is the man) or rescuing
the key vamp for 0 blood (Ankla). The downside is that I won't choose
the vamps to be torporized...
The main problem is that Dominate is too damn good to throw away the
mix. It grants bounce, poolgain, influence-speeder tech and combat
avoidance. If the main vampire is a non-[DOM] one like Ankla or
Spider, I won't be able to Govern down from the beginning. It would
make the crypt even bigger and vulnerable for a quick sneaky bleed
predator.

I won't be playing V:tES for at least the next week, so if someone
cares to try this deck or some variation of it, please tell me how it
goes. It's not a friendly deck, so I appreciate to know reactions to
it and prepare myself for the complaints if it works as planned ;-)

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/
 
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On 10 Jun 2005 14:59:29 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtanarchist@riseup.net>
wrote:

>Note that the vamp calling the purge does not need to be Lasombra for
>you to pick the targets. You only need to control a Lasombra. When I
>was thinking about doing a deck like this I was going to use a high cap
>Giovanni along with weenie Giovanni and Lasombra. The fatty plays BP
>while the smaller Giovanni Siphon away blood and get back cards and the
>Lasombra play deflection. That was my idea... yours might work too.
>I'll look at your list later...
>Cthulukitty

Oh, I realise this, but I thought that once I use a small cap
Lasombra, I'd be obliged to defend it. Bigger Lasombras defend
themselves better with Obedience, and the Giovanni chosen (Pochtli and
Carlotta) have better chances to use it than a small cap. Of course, I
could just include a bigger Giovanni with [obf], like Ignazio, and
still more wakes to block and play Obedience. But what do I do if
someone puts a Haven Uncovered on the small Lasombra?

I also noticed that at least three big Lasombras have [obf] or [OBF],
so they're very good to combine with Pochtli and Carlotta for a lot of
stealth. Otherwise I would have to include Obtenebration stealth that
the Giovanni can't play, or Necromancy stealth/block fails that the
Lasombra can't play. And Baltimore Purge is a 0-stealth action.

That was the primary reason why I wasn't going key-vamp + weenies. It
would leave me too dependent on defending the weenie/ influencing out
another if the first was killed. Playing big caps still leaves the
second part as a problem, but the first is way easier to achieve.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo
V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil
Giovanni Newsletter Editor
-----------------------------------------------------
V for Vendetta on the big screen!
http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/