Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

[Report] Prince's Birthday Tournament

Last response: in Video Games
Share
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:34:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Hi everybody,

o.k., I admit it, this is another late tournament report. I am
just a little bit lazy... Here it is:


Erol's Birthday Tournament Report

Exec Summary (Hi Lasombra!):
a) Name of Event: Prince's Birthday Tournament
b) location of event: Karlsruhe, Germany
c) date of event: February 26th, 2005
d) number of players in attendance at event: 12
e) the correct full name of the winning player: Sven Helmer
f) the entire correct contents of the deck: see below

Top 5:
1. Sven Helmer
2. Andreas Nusser
3. Marcel Vogt
4. Ralf Lammert
5. Denis Krieg


On February 26th twelve Methuselahs came together in Karlsruhe,
Germany,
to celebrate the birthday of the city's Prince with a constructed
V:tES tournament. There were players present from several different
playgroups: Frankfurt, Heidelberg/Mannheim, Darmstadt, Paderborn,
and of course, Karlsruhe. Due to the number of players, we played
at three tables with four players each.

Round 1:
Johannes (Ahrimanes Intercept/Toolbox) ->
Frank (Lasombra Creation Rites) ->
me (Classic Ventrue) ->
Erol (Goulet/Satyr/Earth Meld with Dom)

After a not very fast start, Johannes got under pressure
from Erol and Frank. Unfortunately, I couldn't do very much,
because Erol and Frank always had a couple of votes more
than me (even though I had a perfect crypt draw with
Emerson, Walter, and Timothy). Alas, Ambrosio Luis Moncada,
Gratiano, Greger Anderssen, and Caitlin have a total of nine votes.
So I just sat there and bloated a little: Blood Dolls, Minion
Tap, Giant's Blood, Govern... I also held a Sudden Reversal
in my hand and wasn't quite sure when to use it. When Frank
tried to play a Power Structure, I had found a perfect target.
This, however, delayed the playing of the Ventrue HQ I had drawn.
Finally, I got the HQ on the table and then we entered the
critical part of the game. Johannes was low on pool and Erol
was about to oust him. Erol was also low on pool, though (he
was up to four again, after going down to two). I had to do
something now. In my hand was a Daring the Dawn, a KRC, and
a Seduction, on the table I had my three princes. Timothy
went in with a bleed for one, which was blocked by a Satyr
who melded into the earth (so, no more problems for my Daring
the Dawn). Next, Emerson went in with a bleed (I still had to
get the edge from Frank to push through my vote) seducing Erol's
only blocker: Caitlin with a Sport Bike. At this point
the game was down to a kind of coin flip. Erol still had a
Deflection in hand and wasn't sure what was going to happen
next. He expected a Daring the Dawn by now, but wasn't sure if
I would bleed him out or vote him out. He decided not to deflect,
so I bled him for one and then had the Edge to push through
the KRC. After the oust all kinds of deals and counterdeals
were proposed and after a discussion of about five minutes
Johannes accepted my deal to hand me the Game Win in return
for 1VP. Frank didn't really have a chance against both of
us and went down after a couple of turns.

Me: 1GW (3VP), Johannes: 1VP


Round 2:
me (Classic Ventrue) ->
Olaf (Setites) ->
Denis (Malk Intercept) ->
Andreas (Setites/Temptation)

We had quite a funny dialog at the start of the game, as
Olaf and Andreas tried to tell each other which vampires
to transfer out without mentioning any particular
names. After they agreed somehow, Denis played
a Smiling Jack. The Setites had some real problems with this
card. They distributed some Temptations among the vampires
on the table, but couldn't remove the Smiling Jack. Andreas
offered to help me in return for 1VP. Denis offered me 1VP,
if I cooperated with him. He wouldn't up his offer, even as
I told him that Andreas had just offered me at least 1VP (Denis
still needed a game win). I was able to support Andreas for
a while (with the help of a Parity Shift, Life in the City, and
a Coven) and ousted Olaf (well, he was more or less ousted
by the Smiling Jack). However, we were not able to remove the
Smiling Jack and Andreas was ousted. When Denis played a
Millicent Smith my fate was sealed and I also succumbed to the
Smiling Jack.

Denis: 1GW (3VP), me: 1VP


Round 2:
Denis (Malk Intercept) ->
me (Classic Ventrue) ->
Frank (Lasombra Creation Rites) ->
Marcel (!Nosferatu combat)

I did not like sitting down next to an Intercept deck and a deck
containing votes, but the game did not develop as bad as I
expected. Frank got out an early Baltimore Purge on Antonio
Delgado and Denis played a Madness Network. Next round, Marcel's
Beast and one of my princes went into torpor. I don't quite
remember the details, but either Beast or my prince was in
grave danger of being diablerized. Somehow we were lucky and Marcel
rescued both Beast and my prince out of torpor. Marcel held
down Frank's and Denis' vampires by beating them into torpor
and I reduced their pool with votes (Marcel agreed to first
oust Frank and then Denis). After Frank was ousted, Denis tried
to tempt me to break my deal by offering me the table win (I
had agreed with Marcel that after the two ousts, we would
fight it out). I kept my word, but played really stupidly.
When Denis' vampires were all put into torpor, I should have
diablerized them to get one or two of the flamethrowers.
Somehow, I always seem to forget that there is an option to
diablerize vampires (Denis joked around afterwards, telling me
that I had too much Humanitas left ;-) As Marcel was busy
ousting Denis, I bloated a little bit and tried to prepare
myself for the onslaught of Marcel's combat monsters (expecting
to lose the fight). After Denis was ousted, I was able to fend off
the first wave of attacks with Majesties, a Skin of Steel, or just
eating the damage. Luckily, I drew into my Governs and Marcel
transferred out Julio Martinez (who was his lone blocker at the end
of the round). Two Govern-bleeds later (both with Seductions) and after
a bleed by Queen Anne at dawn his pool was down to zero. I think
in his next turn he would have ripped some of my vampires apart.

Me: 1GW (3VP), Marcel: 1VP


Final:
Denis (Malk Intercept) ->
Marcel (!Nosferatu combat) ->
Ralf (Malk/!Malk Intercept) ->
me (Classic Ventrue) ->
Andreas (Setites/Temptation)

I did not want to sit next to Denis or Marcel, so I picked my seat
between Ralf and Andreas (not knowing the contents of Ralf's deck).
Well, the final was not very interesting. One could describe it as
sitting around for two hours and running into the time out. Nobody
wanted to take great risks and a Millicent Smith played by Denis
didn't accelerate things either. One of the highlights was Marcel
getting his combat vampires dumped into torpor again and again ;-)
After two hours everybody got 0.5VPs and because I held first place
going into the finals I won the tournament. I was kind of shocked
("Whaddaya mean, I won this thing?"), because I wasn't playing at my
best and have to admit that I made a couple of silly mistakes. But
a player of "that other game" summarized it quite nicely: Better lucky
than good.



Deck Name: Classic Ventrue Law Firm
Created By: Sven Helmer
Description: Deck Name says it all...
Of course, this decks has some problems getting actions
through. Against dedicated intercept decks I have severe problems.
The only things that help here are Seductions, Daring the Dawn,
Kiss of Ra (to dump blockers into torpor), and untapping with
Majesty (to do some other action).


Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 17, Max: 33, Avg: 6.42)
----------------------------------------------
2 Emerson Bridges DOM FOR pot PRE 8, Ventrue,
Prince
1 Gideon Fontaine PRE 3, Ventrue
1 Heather Florent, The Opportunist dom FOR PRE 6, Ventrue
1 Jazz Wentworth dom for PRE 5, Ventrue
1 Queen Anne aus DOM FOR obf PRE 10, Ventrue,
Prince
1 Ranjan Rishi, Camarilla Scholar DOM for PRE 5, Ventrue
2 Sir Walter Nash DOM FOR PRE 7, Ventrue,
Prince
2 Timothy Crowley ani dom FOR PRE 7, Ventrue,
Prince
1 Violette Prentiss dom PRE 4, Ventrue

Library: (70 cards)
------------------

Master: (17 cards)

3 Blood Doll
1 Creepshow Casino
1 Giant's Blood
1 Hostile Takeover
3 Life in the City
3 Minion Tap
1 Secure Haven
1 Sudden Reversal
1 The Coven
2 Ventrue Headquarters

Minion: (53 cards)

2 Bewitching Oration
2 Bonding
1 Consanguineous Boon
2 Daring the Dawn
6 Deflection
3 Freak Drive
5 Govern the Unaligned
7 Kine Resources Contested
7 Majesty
2 Parity Shift
1 Rolling with the Punches
2 Second Tradition: Domain
4 Seduction
2 Skin of Steel
2 The Kiss of Ra
5 Voter Captivation
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:01:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

sven.seven@gmail.com wrote:

> a) Name of Event: Prince's Birthday Tournament

And odly enough, today *is* Prince's birthday...


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 4:39:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Well, I could now tell you that I've just waited for an appropriate
date to post this report, but it was just my laziness... ;-)
Related resources
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 1:56:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

sven.seven@gmail.com wrote:

> Round 1:

> the KRC. After the oust all kinds of deals and counterdeals
> were proposed and after a discussion of about five minutes
> Johannes accepted my deal to hand me the Game Win in return
> for 1VP.

> Round 2:

> on the table, but couldn't remove the Smiling Jack. Andreas
> offered to help me in return for 1VP. Denis offered me 1VP,
> if I cooperated with him. He wouldn't up his offer, even as
> I told him that Andreas had just offered me at least 1VP (Denis
> still needed a game win).

> Round 3:

> rescued both Beast and my prince out of torpor. Marcel held
> down Frank's and Denis' vampires by beating them into torpor
> and I reduced their pool with votes (Marcel agreed to first
> oust Frank and then Denis). After Frank was ousted, Denis tried
> to tempt me to break my deal by offering me the table win (I
> had agreed with Marcel that after the two ousts, we would
> fight it out).

> Final:

> After two hours everybody got 0.5VPs and because I held first place


Is this how you guys normally play the game? Don't you think there's
too much emphasis on deals for VP's? Don't you think the final might
have timed out because there's a tendancy to only play the card game to
the point where a clear path to a VP deal can be seen and cut? Note
all the question marks.... I'm asking, not accusing. But it does seem
from tournament reports that certain metagames are all about carving up
the table and less about actually *taking* a table under your own
steam.

--

David Cherryholmes
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 11:20:44 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

On 8 Jun 2005 09:56:47 -0700, <david.cherryholmes@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is this how you guys normally play the game? Don't you think there's
> too much emphasis on deals for VP's? Don't you think the final might
> have timed out because there's a tendancy to only play the card game to
> the point where a clear path to a VP deal can be seen and cut? Note
> all the question marks.... I'm asking, not accusing. But it does seem
> from tournament reports that certain metagames are all about carving up
> the table and less about actually *taking* a table under your own
> steam.

We had a Silence of Death tournament last month, three rounds + Finals.
Enough players showed up to be seated at 10 tables during the preliminary
rounds. Out of those 3×10 games only a single one went to time (I think it
featured three wall decks). The average was under one hour. I think we all
know that table talk slows down games, but most people may not realize how
significant that slow down is.

My favourite VTES quote is "No deals, please play."

--
Bye,

Daneel
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 7:58:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

> Is this how you guys normally play the game? Don't you think there's
> too much emphasis on deals for VP's? Don't you think the final might
> have timed out because there's a tendancy to only play the card game to
> the point where a clear path to a VP deal can be seen and cut? Note
> all the question marks.... I'm asking, not accusing. But it does seem
> from tournament reports that certain metagames are all about carving up
> the table and less about actually *taking* a table under your own
> steam.

No offense taken, actually I kind of agree with you. There are way too
many deals for GWs and VPs around here. Many games revolve around
jockeying for a position so that you cannot be ignored when the dealing
starts or someone in a dire position dealing away the GW for 1 or 2
VPs. My opinion used to be that short term deals are o.k. for the game
(e.g. rescuing vampires from torpor, establishing some kind of truce
for 1 or 2 turns) and that GW-deals shouldn't be done. However, after
being burned a couple of times when declining a deal and then sitting
at the losing end of the table (especially in 3 player end games), I
changed my playing style and joined the fray. And what can I tell you,
I started winning more games...

Regards,
Sven
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 12:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

sven.seven@gmail.com wrote:

> No offense taken, actually I kind of agree with you. There are way too
> many deals for GWs and VPs around here. Many games revolve around
> jockeying for a position so that you cannot be ignored when the dealing
> starts or someone in a dire position dealing away the GW for 1 or 2
> VPs. My opinion used to be that short term deals are o.k. for the game
> (e.g. rescuing vampires from torpor, establishing some kind of truce
> for 1 or 2 turns) and that GW-deals shouldn't be done. However, after
> being burned a couple of times when declining a deal and then sitting
> at the losing end of the table (especially in 3 player end games), I
> changed my playing style and joined the fray. And what can I tell you,
> I started winning more games...

I know what you mean about getting shafted by not wanting to make those
deals. Half the problem with all this VP-dealing table-splitting is
that once the cowards start shopping it around, declining to deal just
means you are on the ass end of whatever deal ends up getting cut. The
only solution to this problem I can see is for judges to disallow most
of these deals. This whole "well it's totally up to the player's
opinion whether he can gain any more VP on his own" is clearly not
cutting it.
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 1:59:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

david.cherryholmes@gmail.com wrote:
> Is this how you guys normally play the game? Don't you think there's
> too much emphasis on deals for VP's?

I am not really sure about your statement. Deals are part of the game.

First, i see here (i played in the tournament) to much ineffective
talking about deals. Some one aks me, if i want a deal. I say no. He
starts a discussion, why i dont want to deal. Thats absolutely
unnecessary. Deals are ok, but endless talking about possibilities is
not IMO.

Second, still here people dont break deals. Breaking deals is the best
way to get rid of to much stupid deals.

Don't you think the final might
> have timed out because there's a tendancy to only play the card game to
> the point where a clear path to a VP deal can be seen and cut?

I think finals have a special environment. There is one player, who
will win if nothing happens. There are other players who will have the
best place they can exspect if nothing happens. That often leads to
unagressive play.
Anonymous
June 11, 2005 6:23:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

x5mofr@gmx.de wrote:

> I am not really sure about your statement. Deals are part of the game.

Not necessarily. I mean, like, yeah, it is a multi player game, and by
virtua of that, of course there is going to be table talk and diplimacy. But
it is very easy to play VTES and o just fine without any significant
dealmaking at all. Our group does it all the time. In competition, I do it
all the time. Yeah, every once and a while, I'll make a quid-pro-quo deal
(i.e. you vote for me, I'll give up this thing I'm contesting with you;
don't block this action, and I'll rescue your guy from torpor, whatever)
that is mutually beneficial. But then whole concept of every game being a
lengthy deal making session and the winner is determined by committee is
absurd.

> First, i see here (i played in the tournament) to much ineffective
> talking about deals. Some one aks me, if i want a deal. I say no. He
> starts a discussion, why i dont want to deal. Thats absolutely
> unnecessary. Deals are ok, but endless talking about possibilities is
> not IMO.

Agreed.

> Second, still here people dont break deals. Breaking deals is the best
> way to get rid of to much stupid deals.

There are a lot of ways to get rid of stupid deals. Don't get involved in
them. Just oust your prey.

> I think finals have a special environment. There is one player, who
> will win if nothing happens. There are other players who will have the
> best place they can exspect if nothing happens. That often leads to
> unagressive play.

Which is silly. And always has been. If people just try and oust their prey,
none of this happens. Yeah, ok, sometimes you lose when you try this. So
what? Sometimes you win, too.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 11:05:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

David Cherryholmes wrote:
> I'm in general agreement with you, but this part is a little more
> complicated. If you keep yourself apart from the dealmaking, for tables
> where there is significant dealmaking, you often come out on the losing
> end of whatever deal that gets made. Thus, even a player who does not
> like to deal may find himself compelled to participate.

Sure--if everyone else at the table makes some sort of deal and I
refuse to deal, I might get totally hosed. But then I might also get to
totally hose others out of spite. I'll refuse to deal, yeah, but when
it seems likely that I'm going to lose as a result, I'll make sure
someone else loses with me.

While I don't like too much dealmaking, I'm a big fan of the spite :-)

-Peter
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 12:38:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

Peter D Bakija wrote:

> Not necessarily. I mean, like, yeah, it is a multi player game, and by
> virtua of that, of course there is going to be table talk and diplimacy. But
> it is very easy to play VTES and o just fine without any significant
> dealmaking at all.

I'm in general agreement with you, but this part is a little more
complicated. If you keep yourself apart from the dealmaking, for tables
where there is significant dealmaking, you often come out on the losing
end of whatever deal that gets made. Thus, even a player who does not
like to deal may find himself compelled to participate.

It's similar to playgroups where most people want to "play for fun", but
one guy's idea of fun is weenie dominate (for example), and so the whole
group must adapt to this one person's whacked out rape of the game, or
lose.

> Which is silly. And always has been. If people just try and oust their prey,
> none of this happens. Yeah, ok, sometimes you lose when you try this. So
> what? Sometimes you win, too.

That's t-shirt material in my book.

--

David Cherryholmes
Anonymous
June 13, 2005 12:43:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

x5mofr@gmx.de wrote:

> Second, still here people dont break deals. Breaking deals is the best
> way to get rid of to much stupid deals.

It sounds from your reply that we have similar opinions on the subject.
It further convinces me that Jyhad is just a game where the majority
can be easily subverted by an extreme minority.

Hell, it's a game about evil bastards. Maybe that's a good thing?

--

David Cherryholmes
!